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Topic: Index/Oculus/Vive/PSVR (Read 217683 times)
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Mandella
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Posts: 1236
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And that's just off the top of my head with no research.
And it shows! Pretty much all of us simmers already have a HOTAS setup, plus all keyboard bindings memorized. And we already use such imperfect contraptions as Track IR to simulate head turning -- tactile sensations are really not necessary. We just want to *see.* So yeah, pretty cool for certain niche users, but I don't think VR will catch on until, 1) lighter weight, and 2) a more seamless transition between showing your actual surroundings, full virtual reality, and an in-between HUD-like overlay, and 3) cheaper actually no, strike that, as I said before I don't think $600 is all that bad -- I would not have been surprised at twice that. Thinking about it, I suspect the last part of number two above might be the real killer app. Being able to work on real world projects while getting useful 3D overlays on your work could be awful nice as both a training system and an actual job assist.
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Jeff Kelly
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Posts: 6921
I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.
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That's the idea behind hololens though.
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Merusk
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Posts: 27449
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Yeah, Augmented reality > VR.
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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Falconeer
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Posts: 11124
a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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We really needed another format war, been too long.
Also, I think the Vive will have a much tougher time since you need to walk all around the room. Some people have limited room, cats may die, etc.
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« Last Edit: January 12, 2016, 07:52:17 AM by Sky »
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Falconeer
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Posts: 11124
a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country
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I think the Vive "supports" walking around the room, but doesn't need you to do it. I think it's just an additional feature, not a mandatory action. There are so many games where on top of not wanting to, that just wouldn't make any kind of sense (anything where you are the driver/pilot for example).
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Goreschach
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1546
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Did we learn nothing from the motion control fiasco? People play videogames because they want to NOT move around and do shit.
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Jeff Kelly
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Posts: 6921
I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.
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The Vive supports sitting down. The "Lighthouse" laser tracking is capable of headtracking a siting person. In that case only one of the two sensors is needed. The two sensors included in the package are also capable of tracking a person in a room "up to 250 sq. ft." So the Vive is good for anything from sitting at a desk up to rooms that are larger than half of my apartment.
The Viive also supports hand tracking via its dual controllers included in the package. So games/apps that show your hands and arm movements are possible. The Vive also has a "see-through" mode that let's you see your immediate surroundings via the integrated camera.
The Oculus right now only includes one infrared sensor for tracking and has a much more limited area. It also doesn't include dual controllers for hand tracking (they'll launch later this year and will cost extra) and it has no "see-through" mode.
Right now the Vive is on paper the better and more complete - but likely also more expensive - package.
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Jeff Kelly
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Posts: 6921
I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.
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Oculus CEO Palmer Luckey did an AMa on reddit a few days ago. An AMA that was promptly highjacked by reddit's PC master race subreddit. This AMA is full of little examples as to why a CEO shouldn't handle PR and communication himself/herself. Doesn't Oculus have a PR department or is this a case where the CEO largely ignores their input?
Things like the biggest hurdle to VR adoption being "your crappy PC" or other gems and tidbits rife to be taken out of context or in no need to be taken out of context to hurt the messaging. He seems well meaning but completely out of touch with his potential audience. He should not be in charge of PR and audience engagement.
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Jeff Kelly
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Posts: 6921
I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.
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Tebonas
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Posts: 6365
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Not surprising since there really wasn't that much of a technology jump on the PC sector the last decade. You buy a new PC when the old one breaks down in a way you can't fix with only exchanging parts of the system. Otherwise there still isn't a game out that doesn't work on a slightly older PC as well.
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Nija
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Posts: 2136
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When the last time anyone actually bought a fully assembled PC? I'm not sure I have ever been a data point for them, other than when I'm buying PCs in bulk for work.
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HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42632
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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If we're talking PC gaming, what new release in the last few years has REQUIRED an upgrade? I've had this computer since Xmas 2011 and am still using an Nvidia 460 GTX that I bought with it. I can think of 2 games off the top of my head that I've needed to adjust settings for them to be playable. I see nothing on the horizon that's going to cause me to have to upgrade either the card or the CPU anytime soon.
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Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23626
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Depends on the resolution and quality settings you run at. Many games require a GTX 970 or better to run at 1080p at max or near max settings with an avg FPS of 60.
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Sky
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Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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Playable? Eh. Master Race doesn't want to hear 'playable'. I previously had a pair of 460s and they could keep up with pretty much everything up into 2014, they got hot and pulled a lot of juice. The 970 was a really good upgrade, it can play GTA V/Witcher 3 etc full quality no slowdown, without heating up much at all. SWTOR in particular used to beat teh crap out of my 460s (hot potatoes), with the 970s it's also nice and cool. And I had an aftermarket cooler on the EVGA that was cool as a cuke when 460s were released, and the second was the MSI twin Frozr 2 or w/e, one of the better stock solutions...both were just working too hard for modern games imo.
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Jeff Kelly
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Posts: 6921
I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.
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When the last time anyone actually bought a fully assembled PC? I'm not sure I have ever been a data point for them, other than when I'm buying PCs in bulk for work.
I'd happily buy a fully assembled PC. If there'd actualy be suppliers that build PCs of decent quality and price. Right now most vendors either sell you shit or ridiculously overpriced systems or ridiculously overpriced shit. Granted building a rig yourself is not that hard. Building a rig yourself that doesn't sound like a jetliner and doesn't look like it was designed by a five year old with a fondness for LEDs is a lot harder though. Unfortunately you either have places like Dell that ask huge premiums for underpowered PCs just for the privilege of having ridiculous looking cases with aliens on them. Or you have boutique places that charge you a shitload of money for gamer PCs made out of off-the shelf components and where you don't know if it still exists two years from now when you need a warranty replacement. If I put a price on my personal time that I need to research and select the appropriate parts I need for a PC and the time needed to assemble it, I probably could buy a prebuilt machine instead. If the PC market wasn't so shitty that is. When a boutique shop sells you $900 worth of stuff for $1600 just because they wrote "gamer PC" on the marketing and tweaked it a little that changes obviously.
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Druzil
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Posts: 550
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When the last time anyone actually bought a fully assembled PC? I'm not sure I have ever been a data point for them, other than when I'm buying PCs in bulk for work.
I'd happily buy a fully assembled PC. If there'd actualy be suppliers that build PCs of decent quality and price. Right now most vendors either sell you shit or ridiculously overpriced systems or ridiculously overpriced shit. Granted building a rig yourself is not that hard. Building a rig yourself that doesn't sound like a jetliner and doesn't look like it was designed by a five year old with a fondness for LEDs is a lot harder though. Unfortunately you either have places like Dell that ask huge premiums for underpowered PCs just for the privilege of having ridiculous looking cases with aliens on them. Or you have boutique places that charge you a shitload of money for gamer PCs made out of off-the shelf components and where you don't know if it still exists two years from now when you need a warranty replacement. If I put a price on my personal time that I need to research and select the appropriate parts I need for a PC and the time needed to assemble it, I probably could buy a prebuilt machine instead. If the PC market wasn't so shitty that is. When a boutique shop sells you $900 worth of stuff for $1600 just because they wrote "gamer PC" on the marketing and tweaked it a little that changes obviously. FWIW, I've gotten 4 systems from ibuypower in the last 4 years and I couldn't be happier with them. You still have to do a little work of waiting for seasonal sale and wading through the deals and coupons but in the end you come out with a nice PC with professional cabling, sound dampening, silent fans and anything else you want to pay for (or not). On my higher end PC I paid about $130 more than parting and building it myself and on the mid range ones it was under $100 each. The oldest PC I've almost totally rebuilt at this point as I've upgraded it over time but still, starting with the base totally pre-built was well worth the money over my time. Anyways, I wont argue the gamer tag thrown on stuff makes the prices crazy, there's certainly plenty of that going on.
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HaemishM
Staff Emeritus
Posts: 42632
the Confederate flag underneath the stone in my class ring
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Yes, they are pre-built but the ASUS machines I've bought over the last 4 years have all been pretty decent, certainly better than HP's. The one I bought for me has only needed a replacement video card (the 460 GTX) and two case fans. I haven't upgraded anything else to make it faster. And while I certainly could tweak it to be a little more efficient, I've been pretty pleased with it. I think I spent $500 on the box at Best Buy (Christmas special), another $150 on the card and $25 on the two fans.
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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Wanting quality products at little to no profit margin has worked really well for us so far.
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MrHat
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7432
Out of the frying pan, into the fire.
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Bunk
Contributor
Posts: 5828
Operating Thetan One
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Oculus CEO Palmer Luckey did an AMa on reddit a few days ago. An AMA that was promptly highjacked by reddit's PC master race subreddit. This AMA is full of little examples as to why a CEO shouldn't handle PR and communication himself/herself. Doesn't Oculus have a PR department or is this a case where the CEO largely ignores their input?
Things like the biggest hurdle to VR adoption being "your crappy PC" or other gems and tidbits rife to be taken out of context or in no need to be taken out of context to hurt the messaging. He seems well meaning but completely out of touch with his potential audience. He should not be in charge of PR and audience engagement.
I have to kind of disagree with you here Jeff, in general I thought he came over really well. The people on the Oculus subreddit are pretty much worshiping the ground he walks on right now. He outright admitted some of the gaffs he'd made in the past (price somewhat north of $350...) and came across as a relatable guy who's really excited about his product.
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"Welcome to the internet, pussy." - VDL "I have retard strength." - Schild
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Raph
Developers
Posts: 1472
Title delayed while we "find the fun."
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Regardless of whether you build or buy, just keep an eye out for the USB chipset. That's the thing that is preventing virtually all laptops from being VR ready, and many desktops. VR requires a specific level of performance out of USB, that's why it's a checklist item on their compatibility tool.
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Jeff Kelly
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6921
I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.
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Oculus reveals first “Oculus Ready” PCs, in bundles starting at $1,499So an "Oculus ready" branded PC bundled with a Rift. Don't be confused by the prices quoted on the Oculus page. The "bundled" quotes are merely discounts for the PCs and don't include the Rift. So the $949 Asus G11CD is actually starting at $1499 USD (for a limited time only) if you include the bundled Rift. From the article: "At the low end of the line, the ASUS G11CD, Alienware X51 R3, and Dell XPS 8900 SE all barely squeak by with Oculus' recommended specs for the Rift. Those low-end Oculus Ready towers all sport an Nvidia GTX 970 graphics card, 8GB of RAM, and Intel i5 processors and sell for $1,499 to $1,599 when bundled with a Rift. At the high end of the line, the Oculus Ready Alienware Area 51 has an Nvidia GTX 980, 16GB of RAM, and an i7 processor for a whopping $2,549 MSRP (excluding the price of the Rift)" So the "high end" bundle is actually more than $3000. This will probably not go over too well with their intended audience.
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apocrypha
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Posts: 6711
Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!
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HTC Vive will be $799, shipping 'early April', includes 2 controllers and 2 Lighthouse laser station things. Strangely the general reactions to this so far seem far less negative than they were for the Oculus price announcement, which was $200 cheaper
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"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
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Lucas
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Posts: 3298
Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.
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Sorry, for that price I would still rather purchase a GTX 980ti (maybe even a factory overclocked one, at that). Next!
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" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
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MrHat
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7432
Out of the frying pan, into the fire.
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HTC Vive will be $799, shipping 'early April', includes 2 controllers and 2 Lighthouse laser station things. Strangely the general reactions to this so far seem far less negative than they were for the Oculus price announcement, which was $200 cheaper The Oculus only comes with an xbox controller.
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Mandella
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1236
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On the other end of the spectrum, Samsung will throw in a Gear VR for free if you preorder the S7!
Total package ~$700.00
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Falconeer
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Posts: 11124
a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 02:15:05 PM by Falconeer »
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Lucas
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Posts: 3298
Further proof that Italians have suspect taste in games.
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 02:23:30 PM by Lucas »
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" He's so impatient, it's like watching a teenager fuck a glorious older woman." - Ironwood on J.J. Abrams
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Merusk
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Posts: 27449
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One of the guys in our LA office has the Samsung phone that does that with their headset. It's pretty awesome. He went to Fountain Square the night before the last quarterly meeting and took a shot. With the headset on it was the full VR experience of the space with only a phone. Phenomenal. Ed. Also:
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« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 02:39:51 PM by Merusk »
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The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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MrHat
Terracotta Army
Posts: 7432
Out of the frying pan, into the fire.
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Ya, at this point I think I might just bow out of the Oculus vs. Vive battle and jump on that Galaxy deal since I actually do want a new phone, I miss Android, and free GearVR is enough for me for now.
Someone here want my April Oculus order?
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apocrypha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6711
Planes? Shit, I'm terrified to get in my car now!
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Ed. Also: She looks like my first wife, who used to wear that exact same expression when I was playing QW.
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"Bourgeois society stands at the crossroads, either transition to socialism or regression into barbarism" - Rosa Luxemburg, 1915.
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Koyasha
Terracotta Army
Posts: 1363
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One of the guys in our LA office has the Samsung phone that does that with their headset. It's pretty awesome. He went to Fountain Square the night before the last quarterly meeting and took a shot. With the headset on it was the full VR experience of the space with only a phone. Phenomenal. Ed. Also: I'm confused as to how his hand motions are being reflected in the headset; he doesn't seem to be wearing any gloves or anything that would sense what his hands are doing, so how does the game or whatever he's doing recognize what his hands are up to? Or is he just gesticulating for effect and this is just meant to be funny?
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-Do you honestly think that we believe ourselves evil? My friend, we seek only good. It's just that our definitions don't quite match.- Ailanreanter, Arcanaloth
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Falconeer
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Posts: 11124
a polyamorous pansexual genderqueer born and living in the wrong country
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There's a camera in the device that renders things captured in the real world (like your hands) into the screen. Similarly to how the xBox Kinect works. Not sure the video is authentic, but the technology is there.
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Jeff Kelly
Terracotta Army
Posts: 6921
I'm an apathetic, hedonistic, utilitarian, nihilistic existentialist.
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The reasons why no one is quite as aggravated about the Vive are firstly that Oculus came out first and already bore the brunt of the sticker shock, secondly that everyone expected the Vive to be much more than the oculus (estimates were $999) and the retail price is significantly lower than what people expected it to be. Thirdly the Vive includes everything you need. Two controllers, two lighthouse stations and the headset. This makes it a much more capable set than the current Oculus Rift (which only includes an XBox controller and one IR tracker module.
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