Return of the Book Thread

[Furiously]

Just for you... Does nothing for me...

[Nevermore]

Chalker is one of the old school of sci fi writers that treated thier fiction like literary trolling.  Use advanced tech to make possible things that go against conventional social mores,  in an effort to examine the reasonableness/rationality of present society.

Heinlein does alot of the same stuff.  Heinlein takes passes at incest, sexual orientation, use of force, transgender issues, gender roles, etc.  There's alot of subtle critiques in Heinlein of systems of government, as well.

The difference is Heinlein explored all kinds of different themes.  Chalker revisits the same couple of themes over and over again in every single one of his books.  Chalker had a long career; off the top of my head I believe he had at least 6 series of 5 or more books, plus some single shot novels.  When the same couple of themes show up in all of them, it seems to go beyond an exploration of transformation and misogyny and heads into obsession.

[Morat20]

The difference is Heinlein explored all kinds of different themes.  Chalker revisits the same couple of themes over and over again in every single one of his books.  Chalker had a long career; off the top of my head I believe he had at least 6 series of 5 or more books, plus some single shot novels.  When the same couple of themes show up in all of them, it seems to go beyond an exploration of transformation and misogyny and heads into obsession.

I just think he got to crazy-town faster than Heinlein. By the end, Heinlein was all about the mom and daughter fucking. Chalker just loved him some chicks-with-dicks.

[RhyssaFireheart]

Chalker just loved him some chicks-with-dicks.

You rang?

NSFW obviously.

And yes, I just had to do it.  I'll take my ban like a good girl if that's the result.

[Morat20]

Chalker just loved him some chicks-with-dicks.

You rang?

NSFW obviously.

And yes, I just had to do it.  I'll take my ban like a good girl if that's the result.

That's pretty much Jack Chalker there. Ya can't ban someone for summing up a man's entire career in a single image. :)

[Rasix]

Winger dude, winger. /sigh

[Furiously]

Can't Get Enuff...oh wait....Totally wrong Winger.

[HaemishM]

She's only 17... inches of horse cock.

That Winger.

Also, library book sales are teh awesome. I got 3 hardbacks and 9 paperbacks (including the entire original Dune trilogy and 2 RA Salvatore books*) for $2.40. Support your local library, bitches.

* The Salvatore books were .10 cents a piece, and I've never read them. I want to finally understand the shitstain that is Drizzt.

[Triforcer]

* The Salvatore books were .10 cents a piece, and I've never read them. I want to finally understand the shitstain that is Drizzt.

You overpaid.

[Murgos]

* The Salvatore books were .10 cents a piece, and I've never read them. I want to finally understand the shitstain that is Drizzt.

I got a compilation book of a trilogy of those stories for free and I couldn't make it more than a couple of chapters.  Good luck, hope you get your monies worth.

[Johny Cee]

* The Salvatore books were .10 cents a piece, and I've never read them. I want to finally understand the shitstain that is Drizzt.

I got a compilation book of a trilogy of those stories for free and I couldn't make it more than a couple of chapters.  Good luck, hope you get your monies worth.

Like most of the old TSR stuff,  it's aimed firmly at the juvenile market.  I enjoyed them....  in junior high/high school.

The Drizz't books aren't works of art like the Dragonlance books.  /trolling Schild

[Paelos]

Can anyone recap this thread? I mean I'm actually looking for things to buy and it's 13 pages long at this point.

Assume the following facts:

- I've read the fantasy classics (Once and Future King, Tolkien, etc.)
- I've read all George Martin's books.
- I've read all the Black Company.
- I hate elves.
- Anything where sexual deviancy is rampant isn't my bag.
- Jordan can suck my ass.


Suggestions?

[WayAbvPar]

She's only 17... inches of horse cock.

That Winger.

Also, library book sales are teh awesome. I got 3 hardbacks and 9 paperbacks (including the entire original Dune trilogy and 2 RA Salvatore books*) for $2.40. Support your local library, bitches.

* The Salvatore books were .10 cents a piece, and I've never read them. I want to finally understand the shitstain that is Drizzt.

Can you set up a live streaming video of you reading them? I want to see the look on your face. Might want to look up a good eye surgeon before you start to have on standby; he can help you after you eyes permanently roll up into your head.

[Rasix]

Can anyone recap this thread? I mean I'm actually looking for things to buy and it's 13 pages long at this point.

Assume the following facts:

- I've read the fantasy classics (Once and Future King, Tolkien, etc.)
- I've read all George Martin's books.
- I've read all the Black Company.
- I hate elves.
- Anything where sexual deviancy is rampant isn't my bag.
- Jordan can suck my ass.


Suggestions?

Read Erickson's Malazan Books of the Fallen.  I'll be starting book 4 after I knock off another Dresden book.  Book 3 just had to be the best in the series. The ending to it was quite remarkable.  Only gripe I have is that he plays a lot of his cards close to his chest.  Lot of stuff either goes unexplained (until much later), the explanation makes no sense, or (C) I'm just not as sharp as I used to be :) .

[WindupAtheist]

It isn't quite Piers Anthony nausea, as there haven't been actual sex scenes along the way, but halfway through the book...

Years ago, a girl I was dating gave me what I recall as being a Piers Anthony book.  It was about some guy who accidentally murdered the grim reaper, and had to take his place.  It was mildly amusing and contained no horsecock that I can remember.  I take it this is not typical?

[HaemishM]

She's only 17... inches of horse cock.

That Winger.

Also, library book sales are teh awesome. I got 3 hardbacks and 9 paperbacks (including the entire original Dune trilogy and 2 RA Salvatore books*) for $2.40. Support your local library, bitches.

* The Salvatore books were .10 cents a piece, and I've never read them. I want to finally understand the shitstain that is Drizzt.

Can you set up a live streaming video of you reading them? I want to see the look on your face. Might want to look up a good eye surgeon before you start to have on standby; he can help you after you eyes permanently roll up into your head.

All the Salvatore hate makes me want to jump right into them instead of the Dune books once I finish the soccer book. You know I love to savage good drek.

[HaemishM]

It isn't quite Piers Anthony nausea, as there haven't been actual sex scenes along the way, but halfway through the book...

Years ago, a girl I was dating gave me what I recall as being a Piers Anthony book.  It was about some guy who accidentally murdered the grim reaper, and had to take his place.  It was mildly amusing and contained no horsecock that I can remember.  I take it this is not typical?

That was book 1 of the Incarnations of Immortality. I only made it through 50 pages or so before tossing it in disgust. No, there was no horsecock that I'm aware of, but I just cannot stand his writing "voice." All the characters talk like the Comic Book Guy off the Simpsons. The nasty sex book I'm referring to is Firefly, wherein a giant insect fucks people to death. I made about 160 pages of sheer pain before ending it. I think there's a lot of incest and such in his Xanth books, as well.

But really, I can't stand him because of his writing voice more than freaky sex. The pedo stuff is just more fun to mock.

[Sky]

Suggestions?

I like Modesitt. Definitely follows the same formula, but I like the formula. Try The Magic of Recluse for starters. If you like that, there's about a gabillion more in the Recluse series, and the Corean Chronicles are good, too. Modesitt is generally lighter than Martin/Cook, though.

Have you read the Rosenberg stuff? Starts out really strong, gets weaker as it goes. Check out The Sleeping Dragon for starters. Basically a group of p&p gamers that get sent into the gameworld. One of my favorites when I was a kid.

I read some Piers Anthony when I was a kid, I guess I never picked up on any pedo stuff. Read the Blue Adept stuff, the Xanth stuff to book six or so, a couple of the Incarnations. I really enjoyed the Death book, though maybe it was the concept as much as the writing.

[Morat20]

Suggestions?

I like Modesitt. Definitely follows the same formula, but I like the formula. Try The Magic of Recluse for starters. If you like that, there's about a gabillion more in the Recluse series, and the Corean Chronicles are good, too. Modesitt is generally lighter than Martin/Cook, though.

Have you read the Rosenberg stuff? Starts out really strong, gets weaker as it goes. Check out The Sleeping Dragon for starters. Basically a group of p&p gamers that get sent into the gameworld. One of my favorites when I was a kid.

I read some Piers Anthony when I was a kid, I guess I never picked up on any pedo stuff. Read the Blue Adept stuff, the Xanth stuff to book six or so, a couple of the Incarnations. I really enjoyed the Death book, though maybe it was the concept as much as the writing.

Modsesitt's Sci-fi is a little more varied than his Recluce stuff, but not much. I tend to agree with you on him, though. I like the formula, which is why I keep reading him. If you want to start with his sci-fi, I'd suggest Gravity Dreams or The Parafaith War. ArchForm: Beauty isn't bad.

Iain Banks has some good stuff in sci-fi-- The Player of Games, Consider Phlebas, Against a Dark Background, Use of Weapons -- and his straight-up fiction is dark as shit (The Crow Road, Complicity, The Bridge). Feersum Enjinn I haven't read, but want to.

And I triple suggest Vernor Vinge -- A Fire Upon the Deep and A Deepness in the Sky are good (read Fire first), but I haven't read his latest one.

[Johny Cee]

Can anyone recap this thread? I mean I'm actually looking for things to buy and it's 13 pages long at this point.

Assume the following facts:

- I've read the fantasy classics (Once and Future King, Tolkien, etc.)
- I've read all George Martin's books.
- I've read all the Black Company.
- I hate elves.
- Anything where sexual deviancy is rampant isn't my bag.
- Jordan can suck my ass.


Suggestions?

Steven Erikson's "Malazan" books.  Erikson is pretty heavily influence by Cook and Martin,  before going his own way in later books.  It's a series,  but the plot and story have been moving along at a pretty good clip.

Gardens of the Moon should be available in your local bookstore.

[Hoax]

Finished:
Vengeance by George Jonas, which is the book Munich is based of.  Never watched Munich but the book was interesting, the author's extreme favoritism of Israel and hatred of the USSR was annoying at times though.  All in all if your curious about the historic details it was a nifty read.  He basically had a chance to interview the leader of the Israeli assassination team and share his story.

The Origin of the World by Pierre Michon.  I dunno how I got my hands on this, its very odd but quite good.  A French author writes about a school teacher in the stix who has a very unhealthy mind in various ways.  The writing was pretty fantastic I felt, he does a great job of creating vivid imagery of simple subjects.

I also read the first two Black Company books, unlike the Dresden stuff (which did not impress me at all) you all were right on the money with Cook.  Awesome awesome stuff, looking forward to picking up the third one soon.

[Johny Cee]

I also read the first two Black Company books, unlike the Dresden stuff (which did not impress me at all) you all were right on the money with Cook.  Awesome awesome stuff, looking forward to picking up the third one soon.

Lots of Cook stuff seeing reprint now. The entire Black Company series is worth reading,  but the narrators change a couple times.  This throws some people off the books.  I especially recommend Passage to Arms (das Boot in space!)

The Dresden stuff starts out as entertainment reading, and it becomes something else down the line.  The last two books have been solid, solid books.  (new book out in May??  Soon anyway, and I don't feel like looking it up.)


@ Paelos:

The Erikson book is especially interesting if you are writing, or trying to write.  The first book you can really feel how much Cook, Martin, and Tolkien were influences.  Later books he finds his own voice,  even the soldiers have stopped sounding so much like they were ripped out of a Black Company novel.

[bhodi]

Most of these have been mentioned pages ago, paelos, but I do need to give another shout out to these in case you've missed them. They're on my bookshelf right now, so I of course give them thumbs up (I don't keep what I won't read again)

C.S. Friedman's Coldfire Trilogy
Greg Bear's Songs of Earth and Power (two books re-released as one)
S.R. Donaldson's The Gap Cycle
L. E. Modesitt, Jr's The Parafaith War (mentioned above.. also, the ethos effect, the sequel)

and the "classics":
Foundation
Dune
Ringworld (or anything in known space)
The mote in god's eye (and the sequel, the gripping hand)

[Abagadro]

Random nonsense, all sci-fi related even though you seem to be leaning to fantasy (which I don't read so can't help you there):

I reread the entire Dune series at least once every 4 years or so. Don't let the haters put you off the latter ones of the 6 in the series (I love Miles Teg). Avoid the Brian Herbert/Kevin Anderson stuff like it is ebola.

Speaking of fucked up shit, I've been rereading the Gap Cycle. Excellent books but jeez, what is up with Steven R. Donaldson?

I second the Banks stuff but it is inexplicably hard to find in many instances here in the states.

I like Modesitt's sci-fi as well and his recent one The Eternity Artifact was pretty good. Parafaith War is a good intro to his style.

If you like big sprawling space-opera/tech/military stuff (think Foundation meets Snow Crash meets Legion of the Damned), I dig Peter F. Hamilton although he can't write an ending to save his fucking life. The Night Dawn Trilogy is real good and his latest two-parter was good too.

[Trippy]

Speaking of fucked up shit, I've been rereading the Gap Cycle. Excellent books but jeez, what is up with Steven R. Donaldson?

I don't know anything about the Gap Cycle but SRD has been fucked up since The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever if not before.

[Lt.Dan]

Another sci-fi author I'd recommend is Alisdair Reynold - Chasm City and Pushing Ice are fantastic - kind of like 2001 meets Tom Clancy.

A great fiction book I read recently was Philip Roth's The Plot Against America.

[Ironwood]

Speaking of fucked up shit, I've been rereading the Gap Cycle. Excellent books but jeez, what is up with Steven R. Donaldson?

I don't know anything about the Gap Cycle but SRD has been fucked up since The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever if not before.

Donaldson is absolutely fine as a writer and a fine example to literature everywhere.

However.

He hates women.  With a passion.  Hates them.  HATE.

There's not a single thing of his I've ever read where that doesn't boil over into every sentence.  Bear in mind, of course, that the Gap Cycle is about RAPE.  There's not a character in it that's not Raped in some way at some point.  Hell, even the extras that wander between pages manage to take a good stiffing.

Similarly, Covenant also contains strong Rape themes.  Then, when you want something lighter, you read Mordants Need to read a little more about Rape.

Finally, you settle for his Detective thrillers, at which point you get to enjoy some more rape.

It's awesome.

[Sky]

Bear in mind, of course, that the Gap Cycle is about RAPE. 

I wish I had known that before I read it recently. Fuck, that was a shitty book. I don't know why people like to read depressing things, to each their own but....I should've known, though. I remember reading the first Covenant trilogy as a kid and being totally depressed by it, I really disliked Covenant and wanted him to die. Then I read the second trilogy (looking back, I have no idea WHY) and it took the few things that were nice about the original trilogy and made THEM depressing. Ye gods.

Goths could take lessons from that asshole.

[murdoc]

I read the Lord Foul's Bane and that was as far as I got in that series. I hated Thomas Covenant and had no interest in reading any further in that series. I usually love the whole 'anti-hero' thing, but Covenant had no redeeming qualities at all.

Pick up the first two Malazan books last night and hope to start them this afternoon. So far you guys have been solid on the recommendations, so I have high hopes.

After reading the Vlad books, I grabbed the first couple books in The Khaavren Romances (The Phoenix Guards and Five Hundred Years After. I don't know who Brust was trying to channel in those books, but I got half way through the first one and then donated them both to the local library. I can't remember EVER not finishing a book I started to read, no matter how bad, until I came across those.

[Ironwood]

Please, make no mistake :  I love Donaldson.  I think he's a brilliant writer.  (Apart from the 3rd Chronicles.  It's SHITE so far - a definite paying the mortgage book).


But I don't fool myself as to the man's obvious hatred of women. 

[Ironwood]

I read the Lord Foul's Bane and that was as far as I got in that series. I hated Thomas Covenant and had no interest in reading any further in that series. I usually love the whole 'anti-hero' thing, but Covenant had no redeeming qualities at all.

No, he didn't.  That was the point.  Covenant was a paradox.  He was the hero to the land.  The same guy that sacrificed his own daughter due to his moral cowardice.

You can't beat Covenant for getting your head around really, really complicated themes.  I'm not entirely sure I get Mhoram, even now.  I've read them all countless times.

[Mazakiel]

After reading the Vlad books, I grabbed the first couple books in The Khaavren Romances (The Phoenix Guards and Five Hundred Years After. I don't know who Brust was trying to channel in those books, but I got half way through the first one and then donated them both to the local library. I can't remember EVER not finishing a book I started to read, no matter how bad, until I came across those.

Alexandre Dumas, basically.  Especially the first few are The Three Musketeers through a Draegaran lens.  And it was a struggle to get through alot of them for me, but I wanted to know about the history of the setting.  Unfortunately, there are contradictions between the prequel books and events as related via the Vlad books.  While it's apparently deliberate, it's also frustrating. 

[bhodi]

I think Donaldson just really, really hates his characters. People in his book definitely do NOT have a good day, and if you're the main character, you're fucked. Although the characters go through the ringer, most of them turn out better than they were by the end, and the gap cycle is a good example of that. The first few books are tear-down (Woohoo, rape!), and the others are build-up.

As for why he does it, he probably writes parts of himself that he hates and puts them in as some sort of self-catharsis.

Anyway if you can stand the rape, read it; they're great. Think of the first book as an intro.

Speaking of rape, what the fuck is up with Terry Goodkind's? It's the same deal in the wizards first rule series, only it's thinly veiled and doesn't have that 'literary masterpiece' part to offset.

[Ironwood]

Wait, What ?

Who turns out better at the End of the Gap Cycle ?  They're either dead, running or totally mentally unbalanced.

Trauma is the order of the day.

[bhodi]

Gap Cycle Spoilers:
Angus Thermopyle gets revenge on Holt, all his cyborg implant control codes, and gets holt's state-of-the-art ship to tool around in. Maybe gets a little bit of humanity too, from the ordeal.
Morn gets to keep her her son, her job, gets a complete pardon, and a standing ovation from the UMCP council. Comes through OK, based on last few paragraphs of the book.
Warden Dios's plan succeeds, Holt is fucked (killed by Angus) and he is victorious in the big power struggle which started the whole thing.
Humanity gets an antigen, acknowledged as temporary but a good research starting point.

The last paragraph of This day all gods die:

"Eventually she discovered that she could look herself in the eyes. Once her hair was dry, she put on a fresh shipsuit. The she unlocked her doors and went out to meet the future." <-- not mentally unbalanced anymore