Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

[Xuri]

It's not that the console-port of the UI made Oblivion unplayable - which it didn't - it's the principle of the thing. The UI could easily have been more suitable for the PC-version, they just couldn't be bothered to put in the minimal amount of effort it would actually have taken them to do tweak it. That's what bothers me, and is the reason why Skyrim just went from "pre-order" to "let's wait and see" for me.

[Paelos]

I forget, what was the horrible part of Oblivion's UI again?

[Ingmar]

I forget, what was the horrible part of Oblivion's UI again?

The inventory screen would show you like 4 items at a time unmodded, it was GIANT MENUS that were pretty clearly designed to be read on a TV sitting 8 feet away from you rather than a monitor in front of your face.

[Paelos]

Oh yeah the horrible inventory thing. That was a pain, but nothing to do all  over.

[Ingmar]

Well, anything with text on it had the same problem.

[Paelos]

I always had to remember not to sell those pants instead of equiping them, and then remembering what I stole, and the constant crap you'd get for materials even though you didn't want to craft.

[Amaron]

Seeing that they fixed the 3rd person changes this from "meh" to instant buy for me.   If they improve on player - npc interaction as well then I'm going to be pretty pleased with this one.

[Paelos]

I'd like to see the dialogue wheel go to a game of dialogue Peggle.

[Ingmar]

Leveling system has to be the Fallout "spend points" rather than the Oblivion mess for me to consider it before it goes to a cheap sale. Unless I have a moment of weakness.

[Amaron]

Leveling system has to be the Fallout "spend points" rather than the Oblivion mess for me to consider it before it goes to a cheap sale. Unless I have a moment of weakness.

That's why real men buy it on the PC.

[Sir T]

To be honest I used to console to add 10 points onto certain skills that never would have gone up otherwise. Sitting there casting a 1 point destruction spell for 2 hours with a weight on my cast spell button to raise a level while I read a book was not my idea of fun.

I forget, what was the horrible part of Oblivion's UI again?

The inventory screen would show you like 4 items at a time unmodded, it was GIANT MENUS that were pretty clearly designed to be read on a TV sitting 8 feet away from you rather than a monitor in front of your face.

It was more like 10 items, but what really drove me crazy was there was one key for map, inventory, spells and Personal information. Tab. Then you had to move sliders back and forth between those 4 categories, THEN then from the (for example) Map section you had to select whether you wanted Local map, Cyrodil map, Quests, completed quests or active quest.  Everyone of them had similar. i spent more time fucking around with menus and tabs than adventuring and I was about ready to punch the screen after a couple of hours. It would have taken 12 programming minutes to add all those to a seperate function key for the PC. Even the mod that added the 4 categories to the first 4 function keys just about made that bearable.

And only 8 spells/items can be hotkeyed when you could have 50 spells and dozens of items in your inventory??? (And if you want to change them you have to use the slider/tabs all over again)

For all that Oblivion is very enjoyable, and the Shivering Ilses expansion was brilliant. But ffs guys, the PC has 140 keys not 12. At least let the player assign them to a function if you are too bloody lazy to find a use for them.

[Muffled]

Roughly 230 different commands on my QWERTY counting the permutations of shift/ctrl/alt.  Not including a bind/rebind function for most or all commands in your PC game should be a jailable offense.  It's so simple, and offers so much to the player.

Edit: to put something on topic in this post...  I'll be buying Skyrim six months or so after release unless people around me convince me that it's mecha-raptor Jesus.  The modding community was the only thing that saved my Oblivion disc from being smashed in frustration.

[waffel]

http://www.gamersmint.com/bethesda-consoles-to-be-the-lead-platform-for-skyrim-aim-to-make-it-really-accessible

“We wanted to take it and make it really accessible,” the producer said.“… We still have the complexity behind the scenes, but we wanted to make it so that you could pick up the controller and play and it was easy; the average person could get into it…We knew we wanted to make the user interface a little bit more open and available … get away from the stats and things like that.”

Derp.

[Paelos]

Honestly, did Oblivion not sell well? What do they think they are going to get out of making the game dumber? Did they learn nothing from games like Civilzation going this route on their 5th iteration?

[waffel]

But 'stats' are SO CONFUSING!

[Sky]

get away from the stats and things like that

Can you say steam bin purchase?

[Paelos]

If a developer ever wanted to kill my interest in a game, go ahead and start tossing the word "accessible" around. Those fucking cockknockers.

[waffel]

Remember when they mentioned they thought the game world was almost too big?

Kinda makes sense when you think about it now...

[Sir T]

Two words. Oh and Shit.

[Malakili]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=le-ogIVQmmY

[Hawkbit]

Look at what they did with the control scheme - shoulder buttons are your hands.  Of course this is consolized.   "You are what you play" is their tagline.  Frankly, the stats/leveling system just got in the way of a great experience in Oblivion.  I personally felt the min/max experience in Oblivion really got in the way.  This way, you just play as you like and the game adapts around you.  It sounds neat, in theory. 

[MuffinMan]

Look at what they did with the control scheme - shoulder buttons are your hands.  Of course this is consolized.   "You are what you play" is their tagline.  Frankly, the stats/leveling system just got in the way of a great experience in Oblivion.  I personally felt the min/max experience in Oblivion really got in the way.  This way, you just play as you like and the game adapts around you.  It sounds neat, in theory. 

I really love the TES style of skills increasing with use but the way it ended up working in Oblivion was  . I just wish they could do it right, if not, I guess give me Fallout style.

[Xuri]

Honestly, did Oblivion not sell well? What do they think they are going to get out of making the game dumber? Did they learn nothing from games like Civilzation going this route on their 5th iteration?

Civilization 5 was apparently a huge success.... amongst everyone apart from the core Civilization-fanbase. Maybe that's what they want. *shrug*

[Tarami]

I always felt Oblivion managed to be successful despite itself. If you could get past the ugly art (the graphics were fine), the terrible systems, the incoherent or right-out missing storyline and emptiness of the world, you could get to enjoy a pretty cool game.

[Sir T]

One of the neat things the OOO mod did was add a fuckload of dungeons. A playground around every corner.

[Modern Angel]

Suddenly getting red flags on this.

[Tarami]

Edit: Durr. Could have sworn Modern Angel had posted since the no-stats statement.

[Malakili]

I'll still buy this no matter how much I bitch, I just want to go on record as saying that now.

[rk47]

You know PC is not the target market when they use the word 'controller' and 'shoulder buttons' in an interview.
But what about the PC exclusive world editor kit?

[Malakili]

You know PC is not the target market when they use the word 'controller' and 'shoulder buttons' in an interview.
But what about the PC exclusive world editor kit?

In another e3 demo I heard them say left mouse and right mouse for left and right hand as well, so take that for what you will.

[Paelos]

You know PC is not the target market when they use the word 'controller' and 'shoulder buttons' in an interview.
But what about the PC exclusive world editor kit?

In another e3 demo I heard them say left mouse and right mouse for left and right hand as well, so take that for what you will.

Yes, that makes sense. I'm not worried about them screwing up the combat. I'm worried about them shrinking the world, removing even more factions, and letting the copy-pasta that creeped into Oblivion run wild. Seriously, the gates? That's shitty design.

[Flinky]

About the lack of stats thing; this interview http://au.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim/video/6308920/the-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-todd-howard-interview?tag=videos%3Btitle%3B3 explained the system they'd switched to had removed the stats (Str, Dex, End, Wis etc) in favour of just Health, Magika and Fatigue. They also condensed the skills available (again) so, for instance, the old weapon types are now only Single Hand Weapons and Two Handed Weapons. What they've then done to replace the stat gain on level is put in a perk system. Inside each of the skills is a list of possible upgrades to customise how you want to use the skill. I think the only example they gave was something along the lines of in Single Hand Weapons there was a perk to make axe-type weapons cause bleeding wounds and mace-types to ignore a portion of armour.

There's also a little bit in there about NPC difficulty scaling.

[Paelos]

I don't mind them scaling back some of the stupid skill gains.

I shouldn't have to level 1 or 2 handed swords. I shouldn't have to level 3 different types of armor. It's armor. How exactly does my experience with wearing better armor make it more effective at protecting me?

I'd be more in favor of changing that skill to affect the encumbrances of armor rather than the effectiveness.

[Bunk]

 

So Saints Row 3 is coming out in November right?

Nah, seriously, even though I know I will bitch about it endlessly, I know I'll still end up getting this. The basic system did need reworking, it just sounds like they went a bit too far. I didn't really care that much in Oblivion about what my actual stats were, I think I really just cared that they were going up and that I had control over which ones I focused on, based on the character concept I had.

Completely doing away with classes and stats though? As long as the "based on how you play" mechanics let me develop on distinctly different paths, then maybe it won't matter. If a stealth spec'd archer/alchemist and two hander melee grunt don't play and feel significantly differently though, they may have lost me. This is supposed to be an RPG, right?

[Sky]

I don't mind them scaling back some of the stupid skill gains.

I shouldn't have to level 1 or 2 handed swords. I shouldn't have to level 3 different types of armor. It's armor. How exactly does my experience with wearing better armor make it more effective at protecting me?

I'd be more in favor of changing that skill to affect the encumbrances of armor rather than the effectiveness.

I liked that aspect. Try sparring with a rapier and leather armor and then change out into chainmail with a two-handed sword and let me know how much the skills transition.

Really, the biggest problem with the old way was the level scaling. But I'm a fan of skill gain on usage, the character develops the way you play it. The other problem is min/maxing, but that's a level 8 error.