Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim

[Nayr]

Also on the Empire/Stormcloak thing, another nice touch is that the most sympathetic Jarl is in the first city you come to and the first place (the only place pre-DLC) you had a home of your own--and he perfectly balances a loyalty to Nordic culture, an interest in Talon worship, a pragmatic dedication to the Empire and personal dislike for Ulfric. He's a great mirror for the player's own ambivalence. The other Jarls are also very nicely balanced in terms of unappealing and appealing personalities on each side.

The cities and regions also have really nicely distinct feelings. I could spend all day killing Forsaken, for example...I hate those fuckers not only for their nutbaggery but also because they have the discourtesy to have such bad loot.

Well it's not that Balgruff didn't like Ulfric per se. I think they respected each other, but Balgruff in the end decided Whiterun would be better off siding with the empire.

Balgruff the Greater's loyalty to Nordic Culture and the fact that he still worships Talos is secret is why Ulfric referred to him as a "true Nord."

Also non related: If you side with the Empire, they put Maven Black-Briar in power as Jarl of Riften. Which shows how stupid they are. Maven is the game's equivalent of a mob boss with her connections to the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood.

Vignar Gray-Mane is the Stormcloak's replacement for Balgruff, and is a very good man in his own right. And he's a friend and supporter of The Companions.

[Ingmar]

Sure, Maven is bad, but it isn't like Ulfric doesn't put a douchebag in charge of Markarth, too. It all balances out.

[UnSub]

Maven is the game's equivalent of a mob boss with her connections to the Thieves Guild and the Dark Brotherhood.

To be fair, my Dragonborn joined all the clubs she could in Skyrim as well.

[RT81]

The turning point for me that made me go Imperial was when I visited the Blue Palace and spoke with Elisif and her entourage. I had already heard about Ulfric killing Torygg, but meeting his widow made it really hit home. Ulfric killed someone's husband just to prove a political point. It's also made clear that it was a fight Torygg had no chance of winning. Torygg was trained to fight just as well as any Nord, but he was no match for Ulfric, a war veteran with command of the Thu'um. He accepted the challenge to save face. Ulfric knew all of this. That motherfucker new Torygg had no chance, knew he couldn't refuse, and proceeded to kill him in front of his wife. From that point forward, I decided I would do everything I could to crush the Stormcloaks and plant an axe in Ulfric's guts.

Since then, I've had additional play-throughs of the civil was story line, always as an Orc (because that's all I ever play) and


I'm hoping the war with the Aldmeri Dominion is handled in a future DLC. The way your character is after a certain point in that game, fighting those bastards on an open battlefield is going to be a little lopsided. Like Sauron in the Fellowship movie prologue kind of lopsided. 

[Ginaz]

Good thing you can finish the game without taking sides for those not wanting to decide between rock and hard place.

I started up a new game recently and went with the Stormcloaks.  It was hard to do since I want to punch Ulfric until there's bones in his stool but my character was a Norn who was pissed about almost being executed by the Imperials.

[Koyasha]

When I first played, I couldn't see myself siding with the imperials, honestly.  I still have trouble with it, because...my character, who was not part of the rebellion, who as far as I can tell from the story I'm given, has committed no crimes other than happening to be in the area when the imperials captured Ulfric, gets tossed in with the stormcloaks and almost executed, just because not one of the imperials wanted to bother to find out who I was, and what I was doing there.  Just execute her.  Even if you do side with them, nobody ever apologizes to you for having lumped you in with them and almost chopped your head off.  So, while I may not want to side with Ulfric, I also can find no conceivable reason for my character to side with the Imperials.

I always felt they could have done way better by having Tullius start questioning who you are just before Alduin shows up, so that there's an impression that he's about to order your release because you're not one of the Stormcloaks.  It would have given me the impression that he realizes there was a mistake and wasn't going to execute me out of laziness, and thus much more reason for my character to side with him later.

[UnSub]

1) I think we can all agree that the intro section of Skyrim is terrible for multiple reasons.

2) If someone is found in the same area as a high ranking group of terrorists / rebels, they are going to be dragged in as well. Simply saying, "I wasn't part of it!" isn't really good enough.

[DraconianOne]

I always felt they could have done way better by having Tullius start questioning who you are just before Alduin shows up, so that there's an impression that he's about to order your release because you're not one of the Stormcloaks.  It would have given me the impression that he realizes there was a mistake and wasn't going to execute me out of laziness, and thus much more reason for my character to side with him later.

Why would Tulius question a peon like you when he's got Ulfric Stormcloak in his hands? At the beginning of the game you're not even fit to lick the toe-jam from his boots and not worth the oxygen you are sucking down.

[Nayr]

1) I think we can all agree that the intro section of Skyrim is terrible for multiple reasons.

2) If someone is found in the same area as a high ranking group of terrorists / rebels, they are going to be dragged in as well. Simply saying, "I wasn't part of it!" isn't really good enough.

1) It's like that in a lot of the Elder Scrolls games(Morrowind and Oblivion.) Apparently the Nine think it's funny for their blessed heroes(people who aren't bound by fate) to be thrown in the paths of important people as prisoners.

2) If Hadvar and the Captain noticed you weren't supposed to be there with them(you weren't on the list of people they've arrested) and General Tullius was literally six feet over to the left hearing one of his men ordering an innocent man to die for no reason, I'd think that's enough for him to just say "Hold off on that one, look into this mix up before you lop his head off."

[Merusk]

I always felt they could have done way better by having Tullius start questioning who you are just before Alduin shows up, so that there's an impression that he's about to order your release because you're not one of the Stormcloaks.  It would have given me the impression that he realizes there was a mistake and wasn't going to execute me out of laziness, and thus much more reason for my character to side with him later.

Why would Tulius question a peon like you when he's got Ulfric Stormcloak in his hands? At the beginning of the game you're not even fit to lick the toe-jam from his boots and not worth the oxygen you are sucking down.

See, I'm cool with them not believing me, but if I'm expected to side with them there has to be something as the spark.  Some 'out' from the "dude, these assholes tried to kill me for no reason."  There is NO reason for the protagonist to go with the Imperial when the dragon shows up and the quest objective says "excape with X or Y."  

Sad part is, they had the perfect opportunity to give you a reasonable out.  Right as they realize your name isn't on the list and they begin to question you, the dragon should have attacked.  Such a small change that makes your choice between the two sensible instead of a, "wtf, why would I go with them?" moment.

Instead, someone thought it would add more tension and be 'totally awesome' if you saw the beheading engine work on the first guy and have the dragon attack while you were being taken to the headsman.  It doesn't.  There's no tension, as you know you're not going to die so it just becomes a lame extension of a scripted event.

[Sir T]

Well, I don't know about other species but there is a minor thing if you are an Argonian in that the guy says "I'm Sorry" when the bitch says kill me anyway, and says that they will make sure my remains are returned to Black Marsh. So there is a little bit of decency there. Not much I'll grant you but a little. Anyway Mr. Stormcloak is a bit of an ass if you go with him.

[Paelos]

Well, I don't know about other species but there is a minor thing if you are an Argonian  in that the guy says "I'm Sorry" and says that he will make sure my remains are returned to Black Marsh. So there is a little bit of decency there.

He says that to everyone. I'm sorry, your remains will be returns to <your faction capital>.

Although if you follow him, I'm pretty sure he apologizes for trying to kill you and says he knows it's unlikely, but the Legion could really use a solid warrior like yourself.

[Sir T]

He does, yeah.

[Lantyssa]

Fuck either side.  I'm the Dragonborn, First True Dragon of Black Marsh.  There are bigger things for me to worry about than some petty human squabbles.

[Nayr]

Fuck either side.  I'm the Dragonborn, First True Dragon of Black Marsh.  There are bigger things for me to worry about than some petty human squabbles.

Except that ending the civil war in Skyrim is a requirement to stop Alduin.

Balgruff/Vignar wont let you use the mechanism in Dragonsreach unless you end the hostilities. So you either pick a side and fight to the bitter end, or you talk Ulfric and Tullius into a truce.

[Lantyssa]

Who's Alduin.  I'm talking saving orphans, exploring barrows, and amusing Daedra Princes.

[cironian]

I think you can go through the truce talks without actually joining either side. Unless you kill one specific individual, then you are screwed and have to pick a side to finish the main quest.

[Hawkbit]

Who's Alduin.  I'm talking saving orphans, exploring barrows, and amusing Daedra Princes.

This was one of my very few criticisms about Skyrim; the main story should have been treated as a series of side quests and none of the game should have been gated by it.  It would have been fun to play a character who didn't have to become the Dragonborn or even deal with any of that story to progress.

[Xuri]

This might be of interest:

Alternate Start - Live Another Life ...or... Random Alternate Start

[Ingmar]

There is NO reason for the protagonist to go with the Imperial when the dragon shows up and the quest objective says "excape with X or Y."  

Eh, he is the one guy who tries to do something for you before that. As an Imperial it really didn't feel odd to me going with him when I did it (first playthrough, knowing nothing at all about the rest of the game really.)

[Tebonas]

I think you can go through the truce talks without actually joining either side. Unless you kill one specific individual, then you are screwed and have to pick a side to finish the main quest.

Yes you can, I did exactly that in my first playthrough as a Nord. I figured we all hate the Thalmor and should concentrate on killing them instead of each other.

[Nayr]

There is NO reason for the protagonist to go with the Imperial when the dragon shows up and the quest objective says "escape with X or Y."  

Eh, he is the one guy who tries to do something for you before that. As an Imperial it really didn't feel odd to me going with him when I did it (first playthrough, knowing nothing at all about the rest of the game really.)

That something being ensuring your remains are sent to a place you might never have even been to in your life(it was implied the PC was living in Cyrodiil before going to Skyrim. So Elsweyr, Black Marsh, Morrowind, Hammerfell, Sommerset Isle, Valenwood, etc aren't home.)

Also doesn't make sense to go with Hadvar when his employers ordered your execution. Especially since his employers could decide to finish what they started, no matter what he says.

[Tannhauser]

Fuck either side.  I'm the Dragonborn, First True Dragon of Black Marsh.  There are bigger things for me to worry about than some petty human squabbles.

Except that ending the civil war in Skyrim is a requirement to stop Alduin.

Balgruff/Vignar wont let you use the mechanism in Dragonsreach unless you end the hostilities. So you either pick a side and fight to the bitter end, or you talk Ulfric and Tullius into a truce.

Haven't played in a while, but I beat Alduin without stepping one foot in the Civil War.

[Ingmar]

There is NO reason for the protagonist to go with the Imperial when the dragon shows up and the quest objective says "escape with X or Y."  

Eh, he is the one guy who tries to do something for you before that. As an Imperial it really didn't feel odd to me going with him when I did it (first playthrough, knowing nothing at all about the rest of the game really.)

That something being ensuring your remains are sent to a place you might never have even been to in your life(it was implied the PC was living in Cyrodiil before going to Skyrim. So Elsweyr, Black Marsh, Morrowind, Hammerfell, Sommerset Isle, Valenwood, etc aren't home.)

Also doesn't make sense to go with Hadvar when his employers ordered your execution. Especially since his employers could decide to finish what they started, no matter what he says.

You're not on any lists, you're a random dude in a wagon who happened to get picked up in the wrong place at the wrong time. It isn't like they're going to be able to call up your record from the FBI files or something. The idea that they're going to think of you as anything but 'oh shit, the Dragonborn' once Helgen gets smoked is silly.

[Nayr]

Fuck either side.  I'm the Dragonborn, First True Dragon of Black Marsh.  There are bigger things for me to worry about than some petty human squabbles.

Except that ending the civil war in Skyrim is a requirement to stop Alduin.

Balgruff/Vignar wont let you use the mechanism in Dragonsreach unless you end the hostilities. So you either pick a side and fight to the bitter end, or you talk Ulfric and Tullius into a truce.

Haven't played in a while, but I beat Alduin without stepping one foot in the Civil War.

You fight him in Sovngarde? Or just at the top of the Mountain?

You fight Alduin twice in the game. When you defeat him at the Throat of the World,  he retreats into Sovngarde to absorb more souls and replenish his power.

Only way to get there is to enlist Odaviing, which requires getting the aid of the Jarl of Whiterun, who wont risk his people unless the Civil War is over.

[Ingmar]

 I wouldn't really count the negotiate-a-truce quest as 'stepping one foot in the Civil War' since you don't have to pick a side to resolve that quest.

[RT81]

I wouldn't really count the negotiate-a-truce quest as 'stepping one foot in the Civil War' since you don't have to pick a side to resolve that quest.

Yep, there's actually an entire quest around it:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Season_Unending

I had no idea how complicated the truce process can be because I did it before I ever chose a side.

[Lucas]

This might be of interest:

Alternate Start - Live Another Life ...or... Random Alternate Start

Yep, this is fantastic ("Live another life", that is). Currently playing as a Redguard Alki'r  

[Merusk]

We know.

I got tired of Lydia staring at me, so I stuck Illia in Lakeside Manor as my steward and let Lydia follow me around. Now she just gives me the same face and complains at my thieving ways.  Toward the end of the thieves' guild quests, I just made her wait outside.   Now with a dwarven helm, I can't see her glower.  Win.  She seems pretty pointless, but somewhat useful in a Kick-Ass sort of way in that she can take a bit of a kicking before going down.

 

Lydia seems damn near useless if you use a lot of stealth.  If not because her heavy armor is about as stealthy as a buffalo, then because she loves stepping on pressure plates.  However, she does indeed kick melee ass.  Give her a 2h weapon and watch her tear new holes in things that are crowding you.  Sometimes I'll aggro 3-4 casters and find she's killed 2 in the time it's taken me to bow-down one of the dancing fools.  (Seriously, does anything jump around more than the goddamn casting mobs?)   

If she takes an arrow in the back once in a while, well, bitch should have moved.

[Ingmar]

She'll do better with a 1h/shield than a 2h; she has no 2h skill so she's using it with a skill much worse than her skill with a 1h. At least, I'm pretty sure it works that way:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Lydia

Basically with any companion, you are best off giving them gear that is like the gear they come with. (There are probably some messed up ones who don't match right of course.)

[Fabricated]

Oh yeah, Bethesda also fucked up companions really bad. Lots of them start with default equipment they literally have no skills in. Like, Vikas can train you in heavy armor but he literally does not have any skill in heavy armor himself as a character.

Then there's the whole thing where you have to use a console hack or mod so they level up with you, because characters you recruit start at near your level and stay there. This goes for Odaving and whatever the undead dragon you get in Dawnguard too.

[Merusk]

She'll do better with a 1h/shield than a 2h; she has no 2h skill so she's using it with a skill much worse than her skill with a 1h. At least, I'm pretty sure it works that way:

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Lydia

Basically with any companion, you are best off giving them gear that is like the gear they come with. (There are probably some messed up ones who don't match right of course.)

How odd. The article I read on UGO week or two ago said she was a 2h companion. 
http://www.ugo.com/games/skyrims-best-companions

Looks like I have somewhere to dump that Ebony Shield and Glass Axe I picked-up yesterday.

[Ingmar]

1.6 fixed companion leveling supposedly.

Note for Merusk: She's dumb and will equip a 2h if she has one with higher damage than a 1h because she only looks at the damage stat on it. Which makes it hard to use her to haul around 2 handers you pick up as treasure sometimes.

[Paelos]

Having a companion around when you stealth is very 

[Merusk]

Yeah, it is.  I've just started telling her to wait outside if I'm going thiefing or wait a distance away if I'm going to snipe a few.  Still nice to have for the big fights for the extra damage.