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Topic: Buying a new car, need some advice (Read 347078 times)
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rattran
Moderator
Posts: 4257
Unreasonable
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I do pretty extensive off/rough roading in Rocky Mountain Nat'l Park in the summer. Not designed for racing, the highish center of gravity would be bad. Just means I'm extra cautious if I hit an unexpected area when I have to do any rock climbing.
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slog
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8232
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I do pretty extensive off/rough roading in Rocky Mountain Nat'l Park in the summer. Not designed for racing, the highish center of gravity would be bad. Just means I'm extra cautious if I hit an unexpected area when I have to do any rock climbing.
MOAB? Always wanted to try that.
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Friends don't let Friends vote for Boomers
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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I've seen a couple race back in the day on one of those baja kinda deals, but they're built for trails and rocks. The focus is on the slow torque, locker kinda driving.
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rattran
Moderator
Posts: 4257
Unreasonable
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I do pretty extensive off/rough roading in Rocky Mountain Nat'l Park in the summer. Not designed for racing, the highish center of gravity would be bad. Just means I'm extra cautious if I hit an unexpected area when I have to do any rock climbing.
MOAB? Always wanted to try that. Pikes Peak, South Park, and South Platte Ranger districts in Colorado (aka the Front Range) they put out MVUM/MVTMs every year of which forest service roads are open, but for some areas those roads may not have been checked by Rangers or anyone else in a few years, and you get impassable/nearly impassable ones sometimes. Lots of fun, but can be tricky/scary. Going over Topaz Mountain in 2019, we got to a point where the road had completely washed out at the bottom of a gulley and I had to spend an hour making it passable as there wasn't a way to get turned around. https://www.fs.usda.gov/detail/psicc/maps-pubs/?cid=stelprdb5177824 if you want to get an idea.
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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We just call that driving in the back country on seasonal roads ![why so serious?](http://forums.f13.net/Smileys/classic/joker.png) I remember taking on sand dunes in an old beater fakewoodie when we were high af as kids. Good times.
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Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10619
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So I have spent the last couple weeks looking at AWD/4WD vehicles for a second car (I love my GTI, not getting rid of it) to use in the winter and to use for longer ski trips where I would drive rather than fly/rent a car.
Went to the nearest dealer with a Nissan Frontier in stock which is in a smaller (more redneck) city south of here to test drive it and noticed their Toyota location had a hybrid RAV4 on the lot and took it for a test drive on Friday. Ended up really liking it and the dealer was able to secure me a really good lease deal so I picked it up yesterday. I barely drive 8k miles in a normal year so a 10k lease makes sense for me. It also gets me a bridge vehicle between now and when electric will be more viable for trips to the ski resorts not in Central Colorado. Getting 40MPG is going to be nice too.
Oh and if you are looking for a new car and are trading in a vehicle now is the best time for trade ins. Dealers are desperate for inventory and the prices on pre owned cars is sky high. Two year old cars with 30k miles are being sold at $2k under the new models. My mom got offered 6k for her 2012 Jetta and the KBB on it was like 4800 18 months ago.
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« Last Edit: May 09, 2021, 08:03:24 AM by Chimpy »
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'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
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slog
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8232
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So I have spent the last couple weeks looking at AWD/4WD vehicles for a second car (I love my GTI, not getting rid of it) to use in the winter and to use for longer ski trips where I would drive rather than fly/rent a car.
Went to the nearest dealer with a Nissan Frontier in stock which is in a smaller (more redneck) city south of here to test drive it and noticed their Toyota location had a hybrid RAV4 on the lot and took it for a test drive on Friday. Ended up really liking it and the dealer was able to secure me a really good lease deal so I picked it up yesterday. I barely drive 8k miles in a normal year so a 10k lease makes sense for me. It also gets me a bridge vehicle between now and when electric will be more viable for trips to the ski resorts not in Central Colorado. Getting 40MPG is going to be nice too.
Oh and if you are looking for a new car and are trading in a vehicle now is the best time for trade ins. Dealers are desperate for inventory and the prices on pre owned cars is sky high. Two year old cars with 30k miles are being sold at $2k under the new models. My mom got offered 6k for her 2012 Jetta and the KBB on it was like 4800 18 months ago.
If anyone plans to buy a new car this year, expect to pay full sticker price. The chip shortage is dramatically impacting the production of new cars to the point where car manufacturers are shutting down factories.
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Friends don't let Friends vote for Boomers
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Chimpy
Terracotta Army
Posts: 10619
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Pre-owned cars with 30k miles are being priced at ~2k under sticker of a NEW one. At that point, the "advantage" of buying a pre-owned is basically non-existent.
And manufacturers are still putting cash incentives off MSRP on pretty much everything still.
A lady I work with who lives in Ft Myers, FL said this morning that dealers down there are offering MSRP of your recent year car if it is under 80k miles in trade.
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'Reality' is the only word in the language that should always be used in quotes.
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slog
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8232
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Pre-owned cars with 30k miles are being priced at ~2k under sticker of a NEW one. At that point, the "advantage" of buying a pre-owned is basically non-existent.
And manufacturers are still putting cash incentives off MSRP on pretty much everything still.
A lady I work with who lives in Ft Myers, FL said this morning that dealers down there are offering MSRP of your recent year car if it is under 80k miles in trade.
If you can get a dealer to actually pass on the cash incentive to you as a buyer then you are doing great. Don't be surprised if the dealer jacks up some other cost on you.
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Friends don't let Friends vote for Boomers
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Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 19228
sentient yeast infection
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For a while I've figured that my next car would be an EV, but batteries aren't quite as cheap as I want them to be yet, so the wife and I have been talking about getting some kind of cheaper (used) car to fill in the gap between whenever my car dies (it's pushing two decades old at this point) and whenever we're ready to take the EV plunge. I've always preferred driving stick, and I spent the first year of the pandemic teaching my wife to drive stick and now she's a convert, so we've started investigating the limited options available in a manual transmission.
We've rented Minis a couple of times on road trips so we can get a feel for whether that might be one to consider, and it was fun to drive something that has so much more pep than my old car, but the clutch and transmission feel kind of... heavy? Clunky? Everything requires a lot more force. I noticed it especially after coming home from our last trip and driving my own car for the first time in a week; it was like the difference between a sharp knife and a dull one. It might be a deal breaker.
I know we have a few stick shift enthusiasts in this thread -- can anyone comment on whether that's peculiar to Minis, or if it's maybe a Japanese vs European thing (I've only ever owned Hondas), or what? I'm trying to zero in on what other models I should be trying to get behind the wheel of.
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"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
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Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23626
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Haven't tried a Mini stick, though that does sound specific to the Mini. My BMW stick had a heavier clutch pedal than my Honda Prelude stick but the shifts were equally short / fast.
Toyota has cars with stick shifts (The GR models: Supra, 86, Corolla) but they may be too new to be a good value used.
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Tale
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8562
sıɥʇ ǝʞıן sʞןɐʇ
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My first three cars were manual. A Nissan Pulsar for three years, a Holden Astra (made by Opel in Belgium) for eight years, and then a Mazda 3 for seven years.
The Mazda had the clunkiest gearbox and clutch, and I got sick of the embarrassing occasional missed gear change. But I became so good at accelerating fast up through those gears that it was really nimble to drive.
I decided I was done with manual transmission after that and rewarded myself by buying a Subaru Crosstrek (in the best trim) with a CVT gearbox. I loved that car. But in the pandemic my wife and I downsized/upsized to a shared car... a BMW X3 which is most definitely an automatic. I think the Crosstrek was actually a better vehicle and I want that smooth CVT back.
So where were we? Personalities of manual transmissions... well, you can get used to a heavy and clunky one. But if it's annoying you now, don't go with it. You'll always know the heaviness and clunkiness is there.
We are headed back towards having two cars, and I too thought the new one would have to be an EV. I've considered the well-priced MG ZS and the upcoming MG 4, but I think it's gonna take government subsidies to bring the price into what I'd consider a comfortably affordable range for a second car.
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Phildo
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I was also looking at EVs and used cars in general lately and the market seems appallingly expensive. What ever happened to a car losing half its' value as soon as it drove off the lot?
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Sky
Terracotta Army
Posts: 32117
I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.
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What ever happened to a car losing half its' value as soon as it drove off the lot?
That's just for consumers! Joking, but you're still going to get cleaned out if you trade it in. The secondary market, if you can stomach it, is hot af. My truck is listing for roughly what I paid for it (AFTER taxes and fees) at the low end, to about $5k over that (1 owner, low mileage, well-maintained, could even go north of that if not for some minor hail dmg on the hood). If you want a beater version, 200k miles, accidents, multiple owners, fleet vehicle quality stuff is going for around 15k. There simply aren't any one-owner, no accident, non-fleet, low mileage (60-65k for a 2008) trucks available in a quick edmunds.com search. Even with some minor rust from NY winters, I wouldn't sell it for under what I paid for it FOURTEEN YEARS AGO. Crazy. Then stack ratcheting interest rates on top of that, it's a sucky time to be looking for a vehicle.
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Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23626
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The chip shortage plus logistics snafus hit the auto industry hard. Hence the huge dealer markups on new cars and high prices for used ones.
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Tale
Terracotta Army
Posts: 8562
sıɥʇ ǝʞıן sʞןɐʇ
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Then stack ratcheting interest rates on top of that, it's a sucky time to be looking for a vehicle.
Lost money on depreciation going from Crosstrek to X3 because wife wanted to, and now I'm losing money on appreciation getting a second car because wife wants to. I've been grumpy.
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01101010
Terracotta Army
Posts: 12003
You call it an accident. I call it justice.
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That's just for consumers! Joking, but you're still going to get cleaned out if you trade it in. The secondary market, if you can stomach it, is hot af.
My truck is listing for roughly what I paid for it (AFTER taxes and fees) at the low end, to about $5k over that (1 owner, low mileage, well-maintained, could even go north of that if not for some minor hail dmg on the hood). If you want a beater version, 200k miles, accidents, multiple owners, fleet vehicle quality stuff is going for around 15k. There simply aren't any one-owner, no accident, non-fleet, low mileage (60-65k for a 2008) trucks available in a quick edmunds.com search. Even with some minor rust from NY winters, I wouldn't sell it for under what I paid for it FOURTEEN YEARS AGO. Crazy.
Then stack ratcheting interest rates on top of that, it's a sucky time to be looking for a vehicle.
You aren't kidding. Living in Colorado, I find myself in need of a truck if I really want to get to some of the places I'm interested in seeing and now is a terrible time to be looking. New is actually a bit better in overall price, but the interest rates are a bit much - that is IF you can manage to find a new vehicle in stock without an absurd dealer mark up. That said, I want to hang on to the sedan we currently have a bit longer, but now is the best time to sell it. If I can swing getting a new truck for MSRP (no mark up other than the normal screw you fees from the dealer), I can pay for it outright and then sell the Buick to recoup some of the cost, that would be for the best. All that being said, I am still waiting on the new midsize models from Chevy and Ford to hit next year, leaning more towards the Canyon/Colorado at the moment. So maybe inventory stock will settle out by then. All this and we are also looking for a house... in Colorado. I might be buried before all this falls into line.
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Does any one know where the love of God goes...When the waves turn the minutes to hours? -G. Lightfoot
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Trippy
Administrator
Posts: 23626
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For a while I've figured that my next car would be an EV, but batteries aren't quite as cheap as I want them to be yet, so the wife and I have been talking about getting some kind of cheaper (used) car to fill in the gap between whenever my car dies (it's pushing two decades old at this point) and whenever we're ready to take the EV plunge. I've always preferred driving stick, and I spent the first year of the pandemic teaching my wife to drive stick and now she's a convert, so we've started investigating the limited options available in a manual transmission.
We've rented Minis a couple of times on road trips so we can get a feel for whether that might be one to consider, and it was fun to drive something that has so much more pep than my old car, but the clutch and transmission feel kind of... heavy? Clunky? Everything requires a lot more force. I noticed it especially after coming home from our last trip and driving my own car for the first time in a week; it was like the difference between a sharp knife and a dull one. It might be a deal breaker.
I know we have a few stick shift enthusiasts in this thread -- can anyone comment on whether that's peculiar to Minis, or if it's maybe a Japanese vs European thing (I've only ever owned Hondas), or what? I'm trying to zero in on what other models I should be trying to get behind the wheel of.
There’s actual more models with sticks still in the US* than I thought. Mazda, Hyundai, VW, Subaru, Nissan and others all have versions. Try this CarMax link: https://www.carmax.com/cars/manual-transmission?includenontransferables=false&year=2010-2020This Jetta S looks particularly appealing given its low mileage and price and the fact it still has approximately half its factory warranty. https://www.carmax.com/car/22539897* not counting exotic and semi-exotic models like Porsche and BMW M cars
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« Last Edit: September 23, 2022, 10:36:51 AM by Trippy »
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Samwise
Moderator
Posts: 19228
sentient yeast infection
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Yup, every now and then I browse CarGurus with the "manual" search option ticked to see what's out there. I suspect it's a little easier if anything when looking at used cars.
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"I have not actually recommended many games, and I'll go on the record here saying my track record is probably best in the industry." - schild
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