War

[rand]

why was that last post moved to the den?

[5150]

Or as he is sometimes known...Bitter Dick.  BD is hated on the forums which surprises me as his posts don't seem that bad, but it's a good example of why many alliances don't allow members to post.  It can lead to alliance destruction if you shit the wrong people.

It's been a few years but I just remember his voice was quite annoying on Teamspeak!

[Endie]

why was that last post moved to the den?

Splash damage from the Himo altercation?  I dunno.  There were some other, perfectly good posts (like Phildo's Molle quote) cut for some reason, too.

To (not) answer the question you asked in it, our next target will be announced on Friday, and I'm not allowed to steal the Mittani's thunder by leaking it.  One thing I can say is that for at least some of the ops it will involve us learning armour doctrines and getting gutted several times, much as happened to PL when they did it, but far, far worse.  I have my fleet stabber ready for the executioner's axe.

(Also, a slightly lighter touch on modding in here could be balanced by removing the spammer from the stickied thread)

[Gets]

I, too, am looking forward to finally stepping into the Afterburner Armortanking Age. And about time too, since while goons are flaming each other for having different opinions on CCP's account banning policy and in questioning the e-bushido of botting, with Russian GSF corps trying to find ways to destroy each other, B0rt members have resorted to smacktalking blues, such as 0WN alliance in their own Local. This announcement is a long time coming.

HAC V Zealot and Logi V Guardian shipped and ready   

[Endie]

I'll be honest with you and say that while the AHAC gimmixk will be fun and all (because I love buying and refitting ships) I hope we do plenty of shieldfleet ops too, since it lets newbies use their drakes, the ECM people have fun in rooks and stuff, and me break out vultures and huginns.

[Yoru]

why was that last post moved to the den?

Because it was barely coherent Engrish and contributed nothing. Learn to type and you'll suddenly find I'm a lot more lenient.

The Sir T surgery was a bit less targeted, but I'd rather cut out everything and allow the useful tangents to re-emerge on their own. Posts that comment on a derail and then comment on something else relevant are unfortunate collateral damage. Phildo's Molle quote is a good example.

(Also, a slightly lighter touch on modding in here could be balanced by removing the spammer from the stickied thread)

Send me links to the (ir)relevant posts via PM. I'm willing to do this.

[Gets]

heh. AAA have run out of drakes for their fleets, so they're doing mass shuttle trips to empire to get drakes, and bringing them back. Like 100-200 dudes at once

[Kageru]

For those watching from the sidelines, my best summary... because even CCP's terrible SoV system can't stop empires butting head.

The huge space-empires Atlas and AAA proved to be empty vacuums and imploded with great speed. Atlas is truly dead, its corporations shrunk, disbanded or dispersed though AAA saved a great number of resources and pilots. Indeed they are now fighting alongside the southern russians to reclaim their space. Aided by the entities that took that space Init/CO2/DT being quite small relative to the space they hold. Indeed DT (Dead Terrorists) was either leaving or considering leaving the region and thus became hated by both sides and are now definitely on the way out.

IT is getting picked on for being terrible but a successful trap has probably taken the heat off and boosted their morale (plus killed 4-5 super-carriers).

The NC is attacking the Russians in a grinding sov war very reminiscent of the Russian front in winter. The two sides do deserve each other though as they're the only factions which still adore huge fleets of slow battleships. The war seems to have remained sub-capital. The Russians have recently hired Pandemic Legion to attack the rear of the NC in order to distract them, steal resources and blunt their assault and that rear is proving very soft indeed.

Super-capital proliferation continues at a rapid pace which has shrunk the significant SoV holders as low as three power-blocs. If there is a major super-capital engagement expect the loser to quickly be on the defensive and likely lose their space. So naturally they're all being fairly careful (for example NC vs Russian fight remaining sub-capital).

Meanwhile CCP has decided that what the game really needs are randomly appearing public quests. Given this is meant to go live imminently but is not currently on the test server it should throw up some very interesting "emergent behaviour" where we get to see just how bad CCP are at game design and how MMO players (especially in a PvP game) will find a way to turn anything to their advantage.

[Gets]

http://www.killboard.it/?a=kill_related&kll_id=223538

That started off well for IT.

[Trigona]

The forces of eve have mustered into 3 major camps, the NC, the SC and the Drone Russians.  The big news on a strategic level is that -AAA- (Against All Authorities) and Stainwagon are making a move on Init, a major player in the SC - this has all the hallmarks of a massive new war and now the Deklein Coalition (good friends of the NC) are throwing their lot in with -AAA- and Stainwagon. 

In some ways it's a big call by the Deklein Coalition, as -AAA- famously betrayed the goons a few years ago, however leadership has changed and the goons hate IT.  -AAA- recently lost all their space but are now mounting a vigorous counterattack.  They probably would roll Init who took over their territory, but with IT deciding to commit its forces to assist Init, -AAA- and Stainwagon themselves need assistance.

Stay tuned to see how this unfolds.

[Kageru]

I don't think DC are really that committed to -AAA-. The goons were always going to be roaming fountain and killing IT and pets and made that clear with the "eye of terror" gimmick / convenience. IT being distracted and having to split its attention, as well as possibly not being able to pacify its eastern flank if we do distract them, is pure bonus.

Also interesting will be whether the Russian block considers the war with the NC to be over.

[Comstar]

Copied from Goonfleet.com. Current state of the war in Fountion.

T'was two nights before Christmas when all through Fountain
PNQY has fallen and tension is mountin'
the Blade. Baby titan in its CSAA with care
coathangers were straightened, pubbies beware!
Goons logging in fat asses in chairs
Goons logging in get the fuck out of bed
Rydis exclaimed, Its gotta be DEAD
I sprang to my keyboard, to cause fetal splatter
EVE: Online's important, Santa don't matter
Please Baby Jesus don't let the node crash
Who are we killing Blade. or Blast?
It really don't matter, my dilz they can blow
Armor shield ravens? v0v who knows
When what to my wondering eyes should appear
A sliver of structure OH GOD IT IS NEAR
Blade. CEO's titan so close yet so far
We'll blow that shit up with a Christmas har har

[tgr]

So Molle decided to start a major offensive against Fountain for the weekend, starting with reinforcing tons of shit right after DT today. We've just engaged them in PNQY, I've no real idea of numbers, but they had over 150bs.

This is the result of the first engagement:



Behold, a spacedong filled with clown corpses. <3

Waiting for round 2.

[Oban]

What do the colours mean?

[tgr]

Light blue is +5, dark blue is +10, light red is -5, dark red is -10. White is either our corp or (more likely) our alliance, yellow is just any other alliance than the observer itself is in.

[eldaec]

Light blue is +5, dark blue is +10, light red is -5, dark red is -10.

This is referring to the little boxes and crosses - which are other ships and drones respectively. The +/- numbers above are standings, so the blues are ships belonging to alliances, corporations, or pilots designated by the goonswarm Corps Diplomatique as  friendly. The reds are those designated hostile. Also, purple means they are in your fleet, green means in your corporation.

White is either our corp or (more likely) our alliance, yellow is just any other alliance than the observer itself is in.

These are the triangles, which represent wrecks.

[tgr]

Eldaec: Yeah, thanks for that clarification, I forgot that wouldn't be obvious.

Tentative end result of that fight:

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=8464914

While the numbers are impressive enough in and of themselves, they do not tell the whole story. Yes, they were soundly defeated, and yes, their supers pulled out before the final few skirmishes (IT and pets were safe inside the POS, yet they warped out to try to do ... something, I don't know what), but that doesn't tell as much of a story as this does:



I knew there were indications they were just strictly going a-z, but they're really adhering to this doctrine even to the extent of having to swap ammo because you go from close to long to close range? And this isn't obvious to them as a bad thing? That's much more telling than the killboard stats ever will be when seen by themselves, and for their sake I hope they fix that or they'll see their "big weekend push" end up as a puff of smoke.

Although I wouldn't mind it if they kept up doing what they're doing. Erect space-dongs for everyone.

[Kitsune]

It may not even matter if they try to adopt a new system at this point.  Anyone working for them with half a brain couldn't have any sort of confidence in FCs who are that blisteringly stupid and are earning such consistent and dramatic losses.  If it takes that long for the higher-ups to think "oh hey, this isn't really working out, is it?", then those people probably shouldn't be in charge to begin with.

[tgr]

True. However, it's going to be interesting to see what happens after today's fight, since it's apparently going to be overseen by SirMolle. I'm betting on there not being that much of a difference, as I would've expected this sort of horrible tactics to have been vetted out by ~omnipotence itself~ prior to going into battle in the first place, but time will tell.

[MahrinSkel]

Looks like Molle doesn't have anyone he trusts to be competent anymore.  By that, I mean he's deliberately using incompetent FC's so nobody gains the power base to threaten him.

--Dave

[Surlyboi]

That's how all space dictators do it. He's Emperor Lolpatine.

[Special J]

Oh wow.  They actually call targets alphabetically?  Blaming CCP for the flaw in this plan is especially LOLworthy.  All the goons most important ships should have names starting with M.  You know, in case the change up their tactics. 

I'm a pretty shitty player, but apparently I could FC a fleet against IT and have a chance.

[bhodi]

Oh wow.  They actually call targets alphabetically?  Blaming CCP for the flaw in this plan is especially LOLworthy.  All the goons most important ships should have names starting with M.  You know, in case the change up their tactics.  

I'm a pretty shitty player, but apparently I could FC a fleet against IT and have a chance.

Don't laugh. Everyone calls targets alphabetically. I did it, goons do it, they do it.

If you want to get funky, you do it in reverse alphabetical.

It's a bit more nuanced, sometimes you do it by range, sometimes by ship type, but in general, alphabetical is a very easy way to get dozens/hundreds of people syncing up and firing on the same few targets. In fact, for the first minute of a battle, things are too crazy to call individual targets, which is why a general guideline like 'alphabetical' is the way to go. There really isn't any better way that anyone's come up with that is simple (and made simpler because you can sort your target list and just lock/fire on whatever's on top)

[tgr]

I actually like it when the FC (or someone else tasked specifically with this) broadcast ships to lock up and fire upon, i.e. I don't have to scroll and find the pilot in the overview. Otherwise the FC can quickly switch between sort by distance/alphabet/reverse alphabet/shiptype/god knows what, and I end up spending valuable seconds trying to decipher the FC's mutterings to an ingame name.

But honestly, I generally feel that at least Vee and DBRB (I haven't really flown under too many others lately) tend to vary between the two in a fairly efficient manner (at least compared to IT's strictly a-z manner, as last night's engagement showed. Jesus that was a slaughter.), but the first few minutes are always VERY hectic and mostly uncoordinated.

Speciaj J: Blaming CCP for which flaw? I haven't seen anyone blaming CCP for anything in particular (...this time)?

[Sir T]

I remember the first time I flew under KIAtolon in Delve I. he knew the coms channels were spied to shit so when BOB flew in he told everyone to sort by distance and split their fire between the first 6 people on their overview. Then he sat there singing without a single target call. BOB still got slaughtered as they could not get any intel on who to warp out. 

[eldaec]

I'm always a little surprised more FCs don't use supertanked A name fits vs IT.

[Special J]

If you want to get funky, you do it in reverse alphabetical.

Yeah.  That's why I suggested using pilots starting with the letter 'M'.  I've got a J it should keep me alive a little while.  I think I'll name my next char MMMarvin.

Ok, I get what people mean.  It can start as a real clusterfuck and the idea is everybody just grab a target, and alphabetical will at least concentrate the fire at the start.  But obviously if Goons are completely owning IT's shit, there's something wrong with their plan of doing it exclusively.

Speciaj J: Blaming CCP for which flaw? I haven't seen anyone blaming CCP for anything in particular (...this time)?

Just referring to Pharon Reichter complaining that weapons take time to switch ammo.

[Slayerik]

I made the mistake ONCE of switching ammo in a fleet battle. Half my guns never worked again haha.

Sounds like some good fun!

[Endie]

Actually while we sometimes work alphabetically Vee, Laz and DBRB quickly swap to calling by range if the hostiles are broken up.  DBRB didn't broadcast last night, perhaps because of tracking range scripts or something stopping his ability to do so.  When i started broadcasting for him then we immediately started one-shotting stuff.  IT got upset and put a ton of fighters on me, obviously unaware that 15-20 fighters are not a huge deal if you are in a cruiser-class vessel with a perma-mwd (not lag, just almost cap stable) and orbiting fast.

[tgr]

I made the mistake ONCE of switching ammo in a fleet battle. Half my guns never worked again haha.

Sounds like some good fun!

You should come back and try it again now.

You know you want to.

[tgr]

Just referring to Pharon Reichter complaining that weapons take time to switch ammo.

Ah, I didn't see this bit of the response yesterday. I forgot all about that bit, I just take that problem for granted. In fact, I actually thought it was more a criticism of the FC, but I guess they're just not used to any of that, which explains a few things.

[tgr]

So, about SirMolle's "big push". it looks like it's turned into more of a "being pushed back", at least so far. I haven't got any real numbers of friendlies, but I think IT+pets had 10+ titans and 50+ SCs, which I never saw anything of, and around 400 subcaps. Apparently sys-k etc were supposed to come up as well, but they were camped in so they couldn't come.

I remember main fleet's first scrap with them began badly as we got an awful warpin by boat, and this was confounded by the fact that we apparently broke through the node's CPU limit, so locking and firing probably were the main thing that saved IT from even further losses in that initial engagement.

My recollection is a bit hazy at this point, but I remember that there were a 30 minute lull as we waited for the SBUs to come out, when they were blown to bits. At this point IT left, and there are claims that IT ran so quickly they left 120 or so pets behind in-system, supposedly also including his wife.

After that, main fleet titan-bridged into their main staging point, 6VDT-H, bubbled up their station, and spent literally hours making a congaline while the rest of our fleets ran around fountain, SBUing it up, only to finally end up with a spacedong (I call it a mandozer, because it's misshapen and tiny, you see):

IT's favorite US corp decided to try to troll us with how we hadn't fought for deklein and it was given to us, and spam local with repeated "rofl"s. We showed them what spam really is by professional z0r-chainers (my client literally lagged at this, and it's not a slow computer), only to see victory snatched from us by GMs gagging people left and right.

We badgered some titan pilot to gooncannon us back home because it was literally 15 gates back to j5a and we're fat wheezy nerds who can't take gates.

Oh, and someone made a cake in the middle of the op:

[TripleDES]

Don't laugh. Everyone calls targets alphabetically. I did it, goons do it, they do it.

Back when I was in Goonfleet a long time ago, it went by fame.

[Phildo]

IT director-level chat porn leaked today.  I'm not going to copy-paste it with all the formatting, so here you go:

fuck secrecy i'm just going to leak some it ceo threads nbd

[Endie]

Don't laugh. Everyone calls targets alphabetically. I did it, goons do it, they do it.

Back when I was in Goonfleet a long time ago, it went by fame.

Yeah we take out their FC, their backup FCs and target callers, their anchors and their command ships in the first few minutes of each fight, together with any ecelebs that turn up on their mains.  It has meant that FCs are strangely reluctant to show up for some reason, with today's FC calling off their op, yesterday's never actually existing and Molle chickening out and leaving it to a minion on Friday.