War

[Viper ShizzIe]

And yes, as Mahrin said, this should give IT the window they needed.

I thought us not defending anything would give them the opportunity they needed but maybe I was mistaken.

Basically, the good situation that Atlas, AAA, IT, Tri et al find themselves in right now is down to whatever PL faggots convinced themselves that hurr hurr let's attack NC lowends instead of facing a challenge and doing it in Stain.

Not trolling, I have no idea what you're referring to here.

[Endie]

Basically, the good situation that Atlas, AAA, IT, Tri et al find themselves in right now is down to whatever PL faggots convinced themselves that hurr hurr let's attack NC lowends instead of facing a challenge and doing it in Stain.

Not trolling, I have no idea what you're referring to here.

Let's go back in time to when PL were in Fountain, Kenzoku were dead etc.  PL reset goons (which is fine: other than a very small number of bitter trolls we'd no problem with that) and decided to start ettacking NC high-ends.  There were plenty of other highends in Eve owned by the hostile side of the map, but nooo: the NC's looked easiest because many were owned by idiots.  So when IT first attacked PL high ends, and the North were free to do what they liked, they chose not to help, because "fuck PL".

Similarly when IT invaded Fountain the single NC fleet that turned up was as a neutral to PL who would have shot people on boths sides.  Course, that was dumb of them because with IT getting traction Tri and Atlas saw it was worthwhile to do their bits.  If IT had been swiftly dealt with (as was very possible at one point) then PL, and possibly GF, would have been able to roam around dealing with Tri and Atlas, having fun, killing caps and winning wars.

Now you can say that was all about good fights and that you never wanted Fountain anyway rawr rawr wulfpax.  And that's fine.  And Zapawork is the retard whose watch it all happened on, and who (even when given an actual map of what was going to happen) did fuck all to mitigate it.  But the chain of events is pretty clear.

Goons are unlucky that it has all happened under our most lazy and ineffectual leader ever.  Even Zapa was better (as CEO, not diplomat).  We're holding on despite Karttoon, not because of him.

[Viper ShizzIe]

Let's go back in time to when PL were in Fountain, Kenzoku were dead etc.  PL reset goons (which is fine: other than a very small number of bitter trolls we'd no problem with that) and decided to start ettacking NC high-ends.  There were plenty of other highends in Eve owned by the hostile side of the map, but nooo: the NC's looked easiest because many were owned by idiots.  So when IT first attacked PL high ends, and the North were free to do what they liked, they chose not to help, because "fuck PL".

Similarly when IT invaded Fountain the single NC fleet that turned up was as a neutral to PL who would have shot people on boths sides.  Course, that was dumb of them because with IT getting traction Tri and Atlas saw it was worthwhile to do their bits.  If IT had been swiftly dealt with (as was very possible at one point) then PL, and possibly GF, would have been able to roam around dealing with Tri and Atlas, having fun, killing caps and winning wars.

Now you can say that was all about good fights and that you never wanted Fountain anyway rawr rawr wulfpax.  And that's fine.  And Zapawork is the retard whose watch it all happened on, and who (even when given an actual map of what was going to happen) did fuck all to mitigate it.  But the chain of events is pretty clear.

Goons are unlucky that it has all happened under our most lazy and ineffectual leader ever.  Even Zapa was better (as CEO, not diplomat).  We're holding on despite Karttoon, not because of him.

Pure Blind was mostly my idea. You're right, there were hundreds of other highends held by alliances which were much more "hostile". Pure Blind was eventually chosen for a number of reasons, the least of which not being that I (and I think most people in PL) really don't like the NC and we thought it would be fun to go piss in their Cheerios.

There are several other considerations to take into account. Pure Blind was chosen during the alliance tournament and before the patchnotes or first real devblogs were released for Dominion. We already knew that Section 13 was joining, and at the time ATLAS was still going to be invaded by RAZOR/MT/other failures. What was planned was somewhat of a political clusterfuck. We'd go to Pure Blind, steal the leading corp from TCF and start sieging NC highends right after they'd gotten themselves involved in a war with ATLAS. It's a pretty dick move I guess but we weren't blue at the time and "fuck the NC" is 100% within my personal playbook. This would leave Mostly Harmless and perhaps a few members of Morsus Mihi to contend with, we expected TCF to be a non-entity which, for the most part, turned out to be true. The rest, obviously, didn't really happen. The ATLAS invasion died with Seleene's devblog and we continued in PB regardless.

In addition to this, Pure Blind was a logical choice if only for its geographic location. At the top edge of our "empire" it wasn't like we'd be holding assets across the map, which would aid greatly in defending the moons should they come under attach (using that time's logic, not present). It's also stupidly close to Jita and can be considered somewhat of a choke-point between the "North" and the "West".

We figured we could waltz into PB and start taking moons straight off the bat and that's basically what we ended up doing. We faced a much larger force than we expected but we still pulled off some pretty funny shit considering just how outnumbered we were (we also pulled the highest PL participation I've ever seen, coming close to 200 in a PL only fleet). I don't believe for a second that this really affected our situation currently in Fountain. The NC would never have rushed to defend anything of PL's even if we'd stayed out of Pure Blind, even if we hadn't killed nearly 200 of their caps and taken a half dozen of their r64s in a week.

For the first time in a while I felt that PL was doing what it was best at, harassing larger numbers and causing them pretty heavy losses while not completely focusing on a strategic objective past ruining their day. If that kind of play is something we can get back to doing I think that PL will still have a future as a viable alliance. If not, I guess we'll see what happens.

As for "crushing IT early", I don't think it was ever a really viable option. I'm sure it could have happened but everyone thought they were a joke at the time and nobody really bothered taking them seriously. Even when they took PNQ people weren't taking them seriously. It was just "they mad because they lost 125 caps in 3-I". Also, karttoon is pretty chill.

[Endie]

Yeah I'm not saying that it wasn't a fun thing to do, tactically a clever move and all that.  I'm just saying that it's why we are where we are.  PL lost their space.  I think Goonswarm keep most of ours for now but I'll be amazed if the NC hold onto Geminate or anything south of Deklein.

And don't get me wrong: I think it's fun and exciting now and at least I have a reason to read forums instead of working, and to log in and shoot stuff when I'm actually home.

[Viper ShizzIe]

I'm just saying that it's why we are where we are.

Then I guess it worked better than I ever hoped.

[Phildo]

Viper, you said something on Kugutsumen about Snigg joining Goonswarm and the rest of your corps going to Cry Havoc.  What's the story, there?

[Viper ShizzIe]

Viper, you said something on Kugutsumen about Snigg joining Goonswarm and the rest of your corps going to Cry Havoc.  What's the story, there?

Hundreds of retards got trolled.

[slog]

So what's next for PL?

[Sparky]

Freed from the shackles of assets or space there will be less guilt tripping about HoN than you can possibly imagine

[Endie]

Freed from the shackles of assets or space there will be less guilt tripping about HoN than you can possibly imagine

HoN?

[Sparky]

Heroes of Newerth aka the real cause of PLs demise

[Endie]

Heroes of Newerth aka the real cause of PLs demise

I wonder if there are cultural differences reflected in the games that alliances slope off to play in tricky times.  With GS it was L4D when things got rough, and the time before that it was Sins of a Solar Empire.  With AAA it seems to be WoW.

[Viper ShizzIe]

So what's next for PL?

Going back to our roots I hope, I'm not going to drop specifics for obvious reasons but you'll see soon enough.

[Endie]

We could do empire wardecs on each other and camp each other into empire stations.

[Simond]

So what's next for PL?

Going back to our roots I hope, I'm not going to drop specifics for obvious reasons but you'll see soon enough.

So you are going back to Triumvirate then? 

We could do empire wardecs on each other and camp each other into empire stations.

Nah, he's probably already signed up with IT to attack Delve, or Tri and/or Atlas to attack the north.

[Comstar]

An ex-SoT corp has just deployed SBU's on the Querious empire pipe exit system of A2-.  The 3rd great eve war really has began. <cue music>

[Phildo]

The attack on A2- was perpetrated by Daisho Syndicate, which has just been resurrected by a pair of former Sons of Tangra corporations.  Daisho Syndicate, as you are probably aware, are most famous for accidentally taking sov from Goonswarm in one of our jumpbridge systems in Geminate.

Edit: All the SBUs in 49- have been destroyed, as well.

[Sir T]

All the SBUs in 49- have been destroyed (again) and the IHUB has been Repped (again) and I'm now waiting to rep up the station (again)

And Its seems that IT will be invading with AAA very soon (again)

[MahrinSkel]

Does anyone live in Querious?  Or is it still your "soft underbelly"?  Because if nobody lives there to blunt attacks from that direction, you're about to become the proverbial one-legged man in an ass-kicking contest.

--Dave

[sanctuary]

Rebellion have sov in some sytems I think Mahrin.

Also I was once in Daisho. Way back when we had Period Basis. Fuck them.

[Phildo]

IT's assault began with what felt like a pretty tepid attempt at a handful of R64s, including one PL moon that they seem to have missed before.  It will be interesting to see how much they try to twist the screws this weekend.

[Endie]

Moments:

IT and friends formed up 340 people into their fleet(s) in euro prime on the first night of their attack.  That's cool and all but we got 250 up in short notice and blocked them.  I dunno what to think about this.

I was moving my carrier to a staging system, and when at my intermediate cyno point 16 IT came through on a HAC roam.  They didn't even kill my cyno.  You're not going to interdict movement like that.

First POS of the campaign on either side is dead: it was a AAA Citizens one in 49-.

This is not how to crush morale on day one of an offensive.  Or maybe they're trying to deny us the traditional welp that kicks off all goon campaigns.

Anyway, I suppose that we'll be seeing eight-hundred to a thousand-man alarm-clock fleets ensuring that they take 49- and perhaps another station or two over the next couple of weekends.  I think we're pretty prepared for a succession of lost stations, and strangely everyone seems a lot more sanguine than in Feyth and Esoteria 15 months ago, despite the fact that our fairly small coalition stands alone against two large ones, and that there is no huge prospect of seeing the North, the Drone Russians or PL coming along to help, at least for a very long time.

That said, I wish that moderation were working on our new boards: there are half a dozen 2006-era bitter vets and ex-directors shit-posting the tired back-to-Syndicate meme and generally scaring the newbies.

[dingusxavier]

For my part I think if goons get kicked out of delve they should go try to take Cloud Ring from Ev0ke. Then 2006-2010 history can truly repeat itself.

[lac]

Oh, don't be bitter about PL. As soon as they took Fountain they said they weren't ever going to defend it. It's not because everybody forgot about that that they changed their minds. So whatev - to quote one of their more obnoxious members.

We don't have to go back all that long to find bobbits complaining about 'pathetic legion' reinforcing services on their home stations, oblivious to what merit that would bring to the war effort.

Pl was guerilla, they were enjoying themselves annoying BoB and provocatively took over Fountain. Bracing themselves for the onslaught that was sure to follow they suddenly found themselves pleasantly entrenched in a very profitable region once BoB forces decided to ignore them.

They grew rich and popular over the years and popped out as soon as mild pressure was applied. Good for them, they took Fountain as a freebee and enjoyed it while it lasted.

We'll see if there's any lean or mean left in them after these fat years. From where I stand I'd say they'll either fracture or find their old irregular army feel again. It's not like there are that many options available between touching the sov wars and irrelevancy in Eve.

By now they've lost the luxury to be 'pathetic legion'. If they enter a battlefield now, they'll either be the fucking cavalry or they won't be anything at all.

[Fordel]

Are there any awesome propaganda posters yet?

[tazelbain]

Oh, don't be bitter about PL. As soon as they took Fountain they said they weren't ever going to defend it. It's not because everybody forgot about that that they changed their minds. So whatev - to quote one of their more obnoxious members.

We don't have to go back all that long to find bobbits complaining about 'pathetic legion' reinforcing services on their home stations, oblivious to what merit that would bring to the war effort.

Pl was guerilla, they were enjoying themselves annoying BoB and provocatively took over Fountain. Bracing themselves for the onslaught that was sure to follow they suddenly found themselves pleasantly entrenched in a very profitable region once BoB forces decided to ignore them.

They grew rich and popular over the years and popped out as soon as mild pressure was applied. Good for them, they took Fountain as a freebee and enjoyed it while it lasted.

We'll see if there's any lean or mean left in them after these fat years. From where I stand I'd say they'll either fracture or find their old irregular army feel again. It's not like there are that many options available between touching the sov wars and irrelevancy in Eve.

By now they've lost the luxury to be 'pathetic legion'. If they enter a battlefield now, they'll either be the fucking cavalry or they won't be anything at all.

Their exit was little too close to the SuperMegaWhelp, to really believe this is could be an honest "we didn't want that place space anyway."

[eldaec]

PL just reset everyone.

[Gets]

Tri is getting hammered in the North by the North. 6 titans got out, 3 are still tackled. First one is a Leviathan going down as I type this. Lots of deaths as people across Eve feel the battle echos through lag spikes.

People in 49- are waiting for the iHub to come out in 04:20 Eve time, whether to save it or claim it.

And PL has reset everyone, yes.

http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1251553

[Endie]

The NC are doing great things to Tri/Evoke and their titans right now.

Edit: ah never mind they managed to save all nine titans by logging off.  They are better at lag management than PL, apparently.

[Phildo]

In the end, -A- and their allies managed to reinforce the I-Hub again tonight by quietly sieging it with a handful of dreads while everyone else was preoccupied at one of the SBUs.  Goonswarm tried something similar, but only used a single sniping Revelation that was promptly destroyed.

[Endie]

The sniping revelation, it should be said, was a single person being either dumb or hilarious, depending on your interpretation.  Damn those loose cannons.

I have to say again, I thought, when we engaged at 1:2 odds against nine hostile alliances, that we were going to get wiped out pretty quickly.  But our FCs, our lag management and our experience all told.  When it comes down to it, though, we missed out on the strategic objective, so fuck K/D ratios.  Three more nights to win this again.

This reminds me of 9-9 already, in its meatgrinder characteristics.  Only this time I'm flying a command ship, not a merlin, and that's not atypical.

[Gets]

While mentioning loose cannons, last night we were camping the 4-0 gate with a handful of goons and one sieged ZAF dread 

[Comstar]

In a prologue to the main battle, sys-K tried to get a 4th SBU down in 49-U 3 hours before everything was going down. The SBU was destroyed and Sys-k lost several of their tackling claymore commend ships.

Molle's girlfriend alliance attempt to rapecage NOL before the battle with HAC's. They saw how effective bombers were when they lost 70 ships doing it and the 10 large tech II bubbles were removed in 30 minutes.

1200 ships in 49-U, round 2. We destroyed the 4-0 SBU 30 seconds before SYS-K/AAA/IT and others were able to reinforce the iHUB, so the system was safe. We had equal numbers in subcaps and twice as many caps and were 7 seconds from dropping at point blank range on their entire 70 ship capital fleet....when the node crashed.

The clock is now ticking. Once the node comes back up, either the SBU is rolled back and we shoot it again before they can shoot the iHUB OR we drop the largest capital fleet Goonswarm has ever gathered on Molle's head OR they log their cap fleet out and we rape-cage the iHUB and keep their entire cap fleet offline for the next week in a repeat of the PR- camp.


Late news update: The glorious and ever lasting Amarr Empire has taken advantage of the barbarian AAA fleet being trapped in 49-U and has renewed their crusade on the now undefended systems of the Catch Region! At this moment CVA is reported as deploying SBU's in HED.

[setar]

(For the record, wasn't my statement ;-) )

As for 49-U: Node back up, SBU alive again. GS killed it _again_, but as all ships and caps came back online at their respective POS we get to kill a few of their caps at least with out BS/support.

[setar]

Late news update: The glorious and ever lasting Amarr Empire has taken advantage of the barbarian AAA fleet being trapped in 49-U and has renewed their crusade on the now undefended systems of the Catch Region! At this moment CVA is reported as deploying SBU's in HED.

That's a negative on SBUs.