War

[Jayce]

I guess he's right when he says that Tri kill alliances, most effectively their own.  Twice.

And he brought up "go disband again" but didn't have a ready comeback for it, just that in his opinion they are as good as they were before. 

I agree - gem.

[setar]

and Slay I do get that some people choose to play Eve for the killboard efficiency, and that's cool.  I don't do it myself and tend to find it a bit pointless but I doubt that matters to them.  I just find it funny that they pick someone they think will be easy to rebuild their morale, make fun of them, put their stats against them on the front page and then indulge in (I believe that this is the Tri term) "epic fail".   Absolutely seriously, I wonder if they will have to stay until they get a lucky engagement and save that stat?

The usual fix for stats is to switch from 'region delve' to 'target alliance kia' and they'd be way in the positive. It's completely pointless. At the end of the day it always comes to morale, and who has the better propaganda. Making TRI pilots feel bad about their efficiency, spreading the meme about TRI having ROL take the losses by not having lower-alphabet chars in fleet, the good vs bad russians.. it's why I love EVE. Can't think of any other game were wars are mostly won in this way.

And 'oh god' at the Darknesss post. He's probably right about the station, but that's not exactly the best approach to counter the current PR campaign...

[Endie]

We saved our two R64s this morning.. although I must say that getting up at 8am to save a POS with a couple of hundred goons, most of whom are at 3am local time and stayed awake by the dubious means of drinking heavily is not an experience I would recommend to anyone.  This is why Rebellion are good allies: they had their own TS channel.  There were a lot of frustrated cap pilots hanging around, though, and I bet the same goes for a couple of other alliances that I suspect were waiting to finish the A-K section of Tri's capfleet 

Anyway, I hear a whisper from Providence that AAA is trying to pressure CVA into signing up for a defence pact against lil ol' us.  As part of this pressure they have started reinforcing towers in CVA's space, and may bring an unfeasibly large combined capfleet later today to make a point over some towers they reinforced.  If that's true, then I think it's a shame: CVA are already under huge pressure in Providence since they are seen as the target for roaming, and Thug trying to force them into an unwilling pact would mean one less independent bloc, and pretty much finish the division of the map.  I doubt if CVA will buy it, though, even if Thug offered to throw UK to the (butter) dogs.

[Sir T]

The usual fix for stats is to switch from 'region delve' to 'target alliance kia' and they'd be way in the positive.

Uh the Lolkia campaign IS ALREADY ONLY against KIA.

Seriously, do you have a secret Eddz plushy hidden in your bedroom or something?

{edit} In other news, the Campaign efficiency has been lessened again by the loss of a Triumvirate Titan

http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/398187

Of course there's a few Tri on the Killmail so its will be counted as a tri kill so that's all good 

[setar]

Uh the Lolkia campaign IS ALREADY ONLY against KIA.

Seriously, do you have a secret Eddz plushy hidden in your bedroom or something?

And I heart it every day.. because three KIA pilots ninja-ing on a capital fight clearly count as KIA only kills.

In other news, the Campaign efficiency has been lessened again by the loss of a Triumvirate Titan

Oh, I am sure it will. The one KIA Cerberus shooting it made the world of a difference after all :)

As for reinforcing CVA POS to make them join us.. isn't that logic slightly backwards? CVA knows we'd help them in a heartbeat if their territory ever came under significant threat. ET isn't even playing these days, so just quite how he's trying to pressure them into joining a powerblock I don't know.

[trevorreznik]

You have to admit that Tri is looking hilariously incompetent, especially now that they just lost a titan.  They bit off way more than they could chew by going after highends, and instead of changing up their strategy and trying to fight a long war in the area, they'll likely run off elsewhere shortly.

[setar]

Of course they will run off. Just stand by my original point that KIA/ZAF lost the opportunity for a great sparring partner without any territorial threat, and for the life of me I cannot figure out why some of their pilots started asking for reinforcements.

Unless you buy into the theory that this was the prologue to a TRI/ROL/-A- invasion of Period Basis. Ah well.. at least the Providence folks seem to be having fun, 400 kills so far: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/system/2J-WJY/kills

[Sir T]

Uh the Lolkia campaign IS ALREADY ONLY against KIA.

Seriously, do you have a secret Eddz plushy hidden in your bedroom or something?

And I heart it every day.. because three KIA pilots ninja-ing on a capital fight clearly count as KIA only kills.

Ahh I remember watching 4 MC Hacs running from their fleets of 22 allies so that the slaughter of the MC allies would not be counted on the glorious MC board, but any kills the total fleet got before their allies got stepped on would count the for most holy MC ratio. IAC days were good.

They set up their Killboard that way for max efficiency. Its not my fault it's bitting them in the ass now.

In other news, the Campaign efficiency has been lessened again by the loss of a Triumvirate Titan

Oh, I am sure it will. The one KIA Cerberus shooting it made the world of a difference after all :)

Tri Avatar (third from top damage) and Tri Apocalypse actually.

Of course they will run off. Just stand by my original point that KIA/ZAF lost the opportunity for a great sparring partner without any territorial threat, and for the life of me I cannot figure out why some of their pilots started asking for reinforcements.

AHEM. Darknesss disagrees with your whining.

Eddz, your alliance is in a bad state, and if it wasn't for goons/zaf/rebellion helping and stepping in you would already be down atleast one station to us - not anyone else (just us)

It appears that Tri were a territorial threat, regarded themselves as such, and meant to be. The only one spinning this silly line is you. (Aside from the fact Darknesss is lying in one respect, Legio Romania was helping for one)

[Murgos]

Of course they will run off. Just stand by my original point that KIA/ZAF lost the opportunity for a great sparring partner without any territorial threat, and for the life of me I cannot figure out why some of their pilots started asking for reinforcements.

Why does it seem reasonable to you that GF was just going to let Tri shit in their back yard indefinately?

"KIA should have just let them stick around for sparring partners" is about as unrealistic an option as there ever was.

[Sir T]

Why does it seem reasonable to you that GF was just going to let Tri shit in their back yard indefinately?

"KIA should have just let them stick around for sparring partners" is about as unrealistic an option as there ever was.

The other thing is that Tri took it to the next level themselves. They began hitting towers and planting towers of their own. They began hitting high ends. That pushed things up from "raiding parties once can ignore as who cares" to "We need to step on these idiots." While one could legitimately argue the Goons advice to lay low could have been to encourage them to step over that line, they stepped over it willingly and enthusuasticly. They took it to the next level and at the next level they burned.

[setar]

IAC days were good.

EDIT: Deleted this sentence, not going to stoop to that level.

Which is just about as relevant to this topic as what 4 MC did or did not do in a fight years ago for whatever reason. Might think you'd be bitter about past events rather than enjoying the storyline.

They set up their Killboard that way for max efficiency. Its not my fault it's bitting them in the ass now.

Which was my point. It's a reflection of how the killboard was set up when it was just KIA/TRI in the area.

It appears that Tri were a territorial threat, regarded themselves as such, and meant to be. The only one spinning this silly line is you. (Aside from the fact Darknesss is lying in one respect, Legio Romania was helping for one)

Seriously :) ? TRI were going to be a threat to Period Basis? Using what logistics route to Empire? Unless you had plans of handing them blue standings I don't quite know who's spinning things here. Do agree on the 'next level' though, both with your assessment and Trev's, and I'm actually surprised they did not cut their losses a week ago.

[Phildo]

Seriously :) ? TRI were going to be a threat to Period Basis? Using what logistics route to Empire?

Jump freighters the long way around, via Paragon Soul or Stain?  Pain in the ass, but viable since it's space that's friendly to them.

Seems like staying up for yesterday's op instead of waking up early for today's was the wrong choice.

[setar]

Seriously :) ? TRI were going to be a threat to Period Basis? Using what logistics route to Empire?

Jump freighters the long way around, via Paragon Soul or Stain?  Pain in the ass, but viable since it's space that's friendly to them.

Seems like staying up for yesterday's op instead of waking up early for today's was the wrong choice.

Got to admit I didn't think that was even an option. Don't think they'd have the patience for that, but yeah, that seems feasible.

[Endie]

Haha Tri have deleted both their campaigns and removed their stats from not just the front page but from history.

Edit: and yes, I thought Euros were needed more on the 8am op and so missed out on another titan kill.  Still laughing my head off, though.

Second edit: according to a poster on Kugutsumen the KIA guy in an inty a cerb had dropped their efficiency on their "lolKIA" campaign to 20%  

Third edit: ffs don't everyone jump on Setar just because he disagrees with us.  Otherwise we'll all end up in a boring, homogenuous mess and I'll have to resort to telling sacul that someone said something uncomplimentary about Tri here in order to get other views.

[Sir T]

Which was my point. It's a reflection of how the killboard was set up when it was just KIA/TRI in the area.

Which was about... Actually there was never the case. Just KIA and tri in the area of 319 in delve? In period Basis?? A quick scan reveals ZAF, Brick squad, Legio Romania, STAIN EMPIRE and Goons in the area. Hell Just Period Basis has ZAF and Goons, with Legio Romania constantly raiding along with all the stain fags. So you don't have a point.

and I'm actually surprised they did not cut their losses a week ago.

AAA were trolling German forums that they were replacing TRI's Capital losses after yesterdays fiasco.

Haha Tri have deleted both their campaigns and removed their stats from not just the front page but from history.

Second edit: according to a poster on Kugutsumen the KIA guy in an inty a cerb had dropped their efficiency on their "lolKIA" campaign to 20%  

Gentlemen I know your lives will not be complete without the wonderful Tri efficiency rating. Here it is in all its glory



Interestingly, they also disabled comments on killmails. I wonder why?

[Sir T]

Oh in other comedy, RKK have returned from a successful campaign of getting the shit kicked out of them in faction warfare! They arrived in 319... and promptly lost a carrier that agressed a cyno ship on the station.

RKK. Relentlessly finding new ways to fuck up every day.

[Fordel]

Wait, they actually went to Faction Warfare?

 

[Sir T]

Wait, they actually went to Faction Warfare?

 

Dianabolic even made a big announcement about it on CAOD

[Goumindong]

To be fair, KB is really the only measure for a PVP alliance. Of course it matters. Space held would be the other indicator...but nowadays it just means you are Naptrain folks and blobbers

Not really, no. Its only really a tool unless you define your success only by KB efficiency and have no inkling for surviving from PvP or taking space, at which point individual campaigns become pointless, and the only measure is overall engagements, whomever they might be with[and really you might as well go play on sisi]

For instance there are many other ways to define success, such as space held, or the amount of industry you can disrupt, or the amount of alliances you've killed, or the amount of loot you bring in from kills and ransoms, or the ability to thwart the goals of others. These are all reasonable goals for a "PvP alliance" and none of these really show up on killboards. And killboards are only, for these goals,  tools that can be used to determine what individuals are doing with their time.

[setar]

Interestingly, they also disabled comments on killmails. I wonder why?

GS campaign is back already, btw (and still positive after the titan loss.. and hence just as useless as an indicator as the KIA campaign). TRI claim GS/PL had the password and started spamming mails, hence the lock. Not quite sure I buy this, but as they usually smack each other's fittings just as badly as Ernest does for Razor it might actually be true.

[Sir T]

Well, its been tracking down for the past week and a half for both KIA and Goon, and the screenshot indicated was the efficiency after the titan loss. You see because tri had 2 people on the mail (none of them a Cerberus) it counted as both a kill and a loss, canceling itself out. Oh and the anti-goon efficiency already dropped to 56.87 since the titan loss. Funny that its suddenly become a useless indicator

Oh as for the claims

Danyael Tyren > Sorry to hear about that bug on your KB too, hell of a day for you guys
Zla Droljica > well it isn't bug
Zla Droljica > and you can quote me on that
Zla Droljica > our kb admin did it
Zla Droljica > on his own

In addition, among the latest from the Tri damage control (and there seems to be a lot of it) is that the guy was only in Tri for 2 days and will probably be kicked for "his stupidity." This despite the fact that there was 2 Titans and he was obviously ordered in to Doomsday by the FC, because they were both cynoed in ontop of the goon Cyno at a goon tower. It seems that booting non important people for losing titans is the in thing for alliances of a certain class.

Goon battle report

http://killboard.goonfleet.com/battles/1470

[setar]

Yes, that's what I've been told, too -- admin took down the campaigns on his own, and removed the comments due to lossmails being posted by non-members. And yes, that was apparently the first use of that titan. Seems the pilot wanted to unveil it at a hostile POS by DD'ing a small subset of the fleet. Err?

[Sir T]

He was the Second Titan through their Cyno. Sorry but this cannot be blamed on him or what 'he wanted'. This was ordered by the Tri FC who cynoed them in 60kms from a hostile cyno at an enemy tower, got one of them killed and then proceeded to get his fleet butchered. Saying "he wanted to unveil it spectacularly" does not wash from what happened.

[Endie]

The lone-gunman-admin/OMG haxorz excuses will wash better when the "lolKIA" campaign is put back up in all its 19% glory.  After all, the goon one (fifty-something percent, which is rubbish when you have a capfleet engagement with 50% friendlies present included) is already back up.

[Comstar]

I disagree that Tri was ever going to be in a position to kick KIA out of Period Basis- the supply lines would be insane and completely unsupportable. However, they could take R64's and run them to get some cash, force engagements  and if ROL is covering their losses, get some good practice and high K/D ratios in at no cost to themselves. Tri is completely failing at that, but it wasn't an impossible objective.

And they have forced the complete withdrawal of the GFFL from the east, which took a huge amount of pressure off ATLAS and S0E. I'm not even sure -V- lost their last few stations to RA did they? So while Tri is losing face and honour, strategicly ROL's objectives are being accomplished of forcing the fight back in Delve and away from their allies/employee's home ground in the east. ROL and ATLAS have had a close relationship since ATLAS worked with them in ZS- after all. ATLAS should be using this time to build up large reserves with the pressure off them.

I am surprised AAA hasn't been helping Tri/ROL more, even with just HAC gangs roaming around in indirect support. The romuleans did make an appearance in a Stealth Bomber gang that was ambushing ships on the D-3 Jump bridges while the Titan was going down.

[Phildo]

I think you're mostly right Comstar, but aren't the NC still putting pressure on Atlas and their remaining allies in the south?  I'm also fairly positive that -V- did lose their last outpost.

[setar]

If CAOD is to be believed (hah!) GS followed Bobby's example and threw Minor Threat under the bus, too?

As for helping TRI.. I just don't get the impression we're interested in this fight. Way too much fun in Providence these days. Over 500 kills/losses yesterday alone (pretty even, actually) in over six hours of fighting. No titans if you ignore Razor being double-DD'd for trying to stop by and getting involved.. love how everyone briefly turned around to fight them before resuming hostilities.

[Endie]

Yeah I was watching the fights in Providence and Catch on AAA's (inscrutable) killboard this weekend, and when I saw over 500 kills in one Catch system I thought horrible things had happened, since last time I saw that it was AAA doomsdaying badly-fitted battleships inside POS shields.  But while AAA seemed to be coming out a decent amount ahead each time, the Providence forces do at least seem to be getting the hang of thie whole fleet fights thing to an extent that they lost after the Paxton incident and then the fall of IAC.

[rand]

If CAOD is to be believed (hah!) GS followed Bobby's example and threw Minor Threat under the bus, too?

helpful link: http://standings.goonfleet.com/

man there's a lot of alliances on that list that should be reset. we aren't friends with or there's no strategic reason to be blue with the likes of circle of two, kraftwerk, FOUNDATION, mostly harmless, majesta empire etc.

[MahrinSkel]

Refusing battle (not engaging in small fights you don't need and probably won't win) is a hard thing for an alliance.  FIX eventually managed to get it ingrained in our culture that the little fights with roaming gangs were for fun, and should be treated as suicide ops (don't bring anything you can't replace out of petty cash), and sitting around waiting for blockades to lift was less useful then suicide charging the blockade in newbships, so if that didn't seem like fun, find something else to do.

For an alliance that defines itself around PvP prowess, like KIA, it has to be doubly difficult.  More than a few alliances have been brought down by the loss of pride that goes with losing dominance in their own space on a continuing basis.  On the other hand, KIA *is* mostly ex-mercs, who can define themselves by mission goals rather than kill counts.  So it's not an intractable problem, they just need to be sure they've defined the mission in such a way that mere tactical defeats are seen as trivial, even if there are lots of them in a row.

--Dave

[palmer_eldritch]

Killboards can be misleading.

Here are my personal stats, from the F13 killboard (which means it may not be complete):

Damage dealt (ISK):   18.09B   Damage taken (ISK):   844.85M

As far as I can tell, this means I've got a few shots off on a few carriers before my battlecruiser gets blown up.

[palmer_eldritch]

If CAOD is to be believed (hah!) GS followed Bobby's example and threw Minor Threat under the bus, too?

I missed that thread so I haven't heard the news, but Minor Threat have never been an ally. They were set blue because they have standings with Red Alliance and we didn't want to shoot them by accident when we were in RA's space killing whoever we killed there.

[Comstar]

152 Dreads died today. In kills, ATLAS and AAA came out on top, GS+RZR+PL held the field. 3 peacetime dreadnought fleets wiped out. ROL sent one stealth bomber. All sides claim they have already replaced their losses.

[setar]

I think they are replaced financially, but the logistics might take a day or two -- not sure about PL, I'd be more confident that they still have replacement fleets, but they already suicided two of them into the NC cap blob a few weeks back.

Most certainly a ~good fight~. On a Monday. Over a completely worthless system. Actually pretty terrific.. but also a bit daunting given the numbers. If GS had actually shown up in force (or RAWR and friends gotten involved) this could have been a whole different game.

[trevorreznik]

152 Dreads died today. In kills, ATLAS and AAA came out on top, GS+RZR+PL held the field. 3 peacetime dreadnought fleets wiped out. ROL sent one stealth bomber. All sides claim they have already replaced their losses.

comstar i noticed you tailored your posts by which forum you posted on and want to say thanks for being so considerate :)

if people haven't said it already, eve really is 'capitals online' with numbers like that.