War

[setar]

minor threat are blue with RA because they're splitting kraftwerk's moons, they aren't going to be going with us on joint ops and stuff.

So.. would you be worried about them hotdropping your capital fleet while you are fighting, say, Atlas? If not that's pretty much my point :)

[rand]

minor threat are blue with RA because they're splitting kraftwerk's moons, they aren't going to be going with us on joint ops and stuff.

So.. would you be worried about them hotdropping your capital fleet while you are fighting, say, Atlas? If not that's pretty much my point :)

i wouldn't expect CVA or some other random alliance to do it either idgi

[Endie]

It removes a large part of the game that is interesting. FIX and IAC had, for the longest time, this wonderful stable condition where there were almost daily fights but without any worries of a territorial invasion.. which might be the key phrase here. Now, even *when* you could have interesting fights between two entities a fair amount of bored larger alliances get involved pretty much right away (see the Solar Fleet kb link above for an example). Minor Threat were interesting because they always added this little bit of uncertainty to fights when they were in the area.. now it's yet another red-vs-blue entity.

But that's probably a topic for another thread. Haven't heard anything about a -V- rescue op, so.. that should be it, right?

Similarly, when it was goonfleet alone vs Stain, Atlas and Coven - which was a fair matchup in numbers - we had the best fights I have ever experienced in Eve: four hour running fleet fights with thirty or forty kills before having to reship and coming back for more.  Yes, we would usually win, but everyone had awesome fun.  Since a few weeks after the AAA reset very little like that has happened south of a line between Fountain, Querious, Catch and Insmother.  Some counter-hotdrops in Detorid.  The VNG defence.  The AZN defence where the Stain towers were bugged.  That's about it over nine months.

It was never about ~good fights~, so that probably doesn't worry ET that much, but so long as the single largest power-bloc in Eve sits there in the south and south-east, brooding right on the borders of two of the remaining three blocs and telling a narrative to their members about imminent invasion that ET knows is a lie, meta-alliances will remain the dominant factor.  It sucks and I hate it but you can only piss with the cock God gave you, and I'm not going to pretend everyone is playing our game.

I've already stated the only sov system that I believe can cause a dissolution of the power blocs.  There is no chance of it being adopted.  But if CCP are stupid enough to make it even easier to take systems then the situation will get worse, not better.

As regards the rescue op, Atlas and friends formed up with a 400-man fleet, slightly larger than our numbers but considerably with more BS.  That said, over fifty were from Byrn so really don't count for much, so it was probably fairly balanced.  Our fleets were from Death, RA and Goonfleet/ZAF (more like ZAF/Goonfleet amirite?), adding up to roughly 350.  We didn't anchor any bubbles on the gates.  We didn't put a single dictor on the gate so that the cyno alts for titan bridges could come in.  We didn't even go to sniping spots.  We did what we could to give Bobby every encouragement, but yet again, Bobby threw his ally under a bus and went to shoot Minor Threat POSes in Scalding Pass.

We then said "fuck it" and warped the goonfleet/zaf portion of the fleet - maybe 90 ships - to a titan.  Bobby Atlas had lost numbers by then, but he still had over 250 ships, and we were intent on hot-dropping him with less than a hundred subcaps.  He immediately stopped his pos-shotting op and warped his fleet to a gate, ready to jump out.  I am only getting this info from scout reports on TS, and scouts are fallable, but I really don't see what more we could do. 

[Comstar]

ATLAS finished hanging out -V- to dry and never showed up to stop the last few POS's bar one go down. Instead they went and shot some Minor Threat moons somewhere. If ATLAS starts seriously invading MT, I can see them working with us out of necessity.

[setar]

Again, why SHOULD Atlas support -V-? Neighbours, as Anton said, are not automatically allies. Actually, it is way more fun when they are not. As for ET telling the alliance that we are about to be invaded.. nonsense. I can't believe six months after a brief rumour circulated this is still a GS belief, but I've been wrong before. The fact that nothing is happening can mostly be attributed to nobody having an interest in another Delve scenario with thousands of pilots lagging out in the same system. And no matter *whom* we'd attack (KIA? MT? GS?) it would bring the whole powerbloc back in a hurry. Which in turn gets Atlas/Coven/Stain involved, which in turn draws PL in.. gah. I sure hope you are not blaming the existence of the NC/GS nap on ET, though, because at that stage I'd be at a loss for words ;-)

Still just pissed off that the IRC/ED vs RA conflict wasn't left alone by everyone. *That* could have been a great model for everyone else to follow, back and forth over months, with a nice clean outcome for one side or the other. A couple of corp thefts and calls for help later and it's another nice opportunity wasted.

And I'm confused wrt MT. Why out of necessity, they are blue to GS by now, or did I fall for a troll on SCH?

[Endie]

Again, why SHOULD Atlas support -V-? Neighbours, as Anton said, are not automatically allies. Actually, it is way more fun when they are not. As for ET telling the alliance that we are about to be invaded.. nonsense. I can't believe six months after a brief rumour circulated this is still a GS belief, but I've been wrong before. The fact that nothing is happening can mostly be attributed to nobody having an interest in another Delve scenario with thousands of pilots lagging out in the same system. And no matter *whom* we'd attack (KIA? MT? GS?) it would bring the whole powerbloc back in a hurry. Which in turn gets Atlas/Coven/Stain involved, which in turn draws PL in.. gah. I sure hope you are not blaming the existence of the NC/GS nap on ET, though, because at that stage I'd be at a loss for words ;-)

Still just pissed off that the IRC/ED vs RA conflict wasn't left alone by everyone. *That* could have been a great model for everyone else to follow, back and forth over months, with a nice clean outcome for one side or the other. A couple of corp thefts and calls for help later and it's another nice opportunity wasted.

And I'm confused wrt MT. Why out of necessity, they are blue to GS by now, or did I fall for a troll on SCH?

First, why in the name of all that is holy would we leave IRC/ED alone?  They attacked RA - our oldest allies who got us into conquerable 0.0 - at the very moment when they were trying to relieve the pressure on us in the face of a host of enemies.  They were always going to die for that, unless we did, first.  Goonfleet stick by the people who stick by us, and providing ~good fights~ for Oldma wasn't a motivation.

Second, of course ET (unless you blame his paymaster) is substantially (though by no means wholly) "to blame" (if you want to say it is anything other than a fun part of the game politics) for the continuing GF/NC alignment.  He formed the single largest bloc in Eve history (napfest is a childish insult).  He allied with BoB and announced his expansionist intentions.  If AAA would reset arguably heir most loyal allies then who in Eve is not threatened by such a bloc, ultimately?  Empire mission runners?  Remember that just before you joined with BCDI AAA were running joint Sisi exercises with us and two-faced stuff like that.  I imagine that Thug didn't republish the thread from the GF forums where Graccius mapped the size of the contending forces in Delve but the numbers ET and Molle assembled were incredible.  Unprecedented and unmatched even in the later stages of Delve 2.  And try to be detached: our biggest neighbours attacked us without warning when they were supposedly our allies, and we know very well that if ROL offer a few thousand dollars to ET (or make some IRL threats, one assumes) then he'll do the same again.  That's not a troll.  That's a fairly common perception and I think I buy into it, too.  The majority of those corps involved are still involved in he south and south-east, up to and including some of Kenny.

And are you saying that Scavok's troll about our "Catch Invasion", which was followed within a few hours by ET posting all-in CTAs for a defence op and mails to Stain and ROL (and presumably others) about how this was it, the big one, the real shit going down, was a case of pure coincidence?

Minor Threat were fucked over by Atlas, and I imagine that they hate them enough to want revenge.  Bobby is a great leader of his own people, and has held them together through defeat after defeat.  But he is a horrible ally.  Minor Threat were faced with two choices: stay aligned with Bobby, and be abandoned by him as every other Atlas has been so far (this is not hyperbole), or accept that he doesn't care, change sides, and get revenge.  We have no reason to hate Minor Threat or to attempt to crush them.  Why should we embark on purging them from their space when we can do so to -V- yet again?

[Endie]

Oh, and Atlas "should" support V because they allied with them.  And, if one wants to be all Realpolitik about it, because there's not much of a glacis left before their logistics route is severed now that they've alienated everyone except - deep breath - Sc0rched Earth.

[setar]

First, why in the name of all that is holy would we leave IRC/ED alone?  They attacked RA - our oldest allies who got us into conquerable 0.0 - at the very moment when they were trying to relieve the pressure on us in the face of a host of enemies.  They were always going to die for that, unless we did, first.  Goonfleet stick by the people who stick by us, and providing ~good fights~ for Oldma wasn't a motivation.

Because they were having fun (as did RA, I presume). Because two entities of equal size were fighting each other, and there really wasn't a reason to get involved for an entity that no longer is RA in anything but name other than to demonstrate that GS is allied with the 'good' russians.

Second, of course ET (unless you blame his paymaster) is substantially (though by no means wholly) "to blame" (if you want to say it is anything other than a fun part of the game politics) for the continuing GF/NC alignment.

That's quite a revision -- from this side of the fence NC had started getting engaged way before BOB decided they had enough of MAX, although the switch certainly got the North involved that much quicker. I'm not going to even bite wrt to money laundering, real life threats etc.

And are you saying that Scavok's troll about our "Catch Invasion", which was followed within a few hours by ET posting all-in CTAs for a defence op and mails to Stain and ROL (and presumably others) about how this was it, the big one, the real shit going down, was a case of pure coincidence?

No, I'm saying that lasted all of one day. We've had a number of attacks on HED before, the jammer was taken down once, and I wouldn't have been surprised about an attack while everyone was still in the area. Heck, if there'd been absolutely no response it would have probably made sense to actually *do* attack.

Minor Threat were fucked over by Atlas, and I imagine that they hate them enough to want revenge.  Bobby is a great leader of his own people, and has held them together through defeat after defeat.  But he is a horrible ally.  Minor Threat were faced with two choices: stay aligned with Bobby, and be abandoned by him as every other Atlas has been so far (this is not hyperbole), or accept that he doesn't care, change sides, and get revenge.  We have no reason to hate Minor Threat or to attempt to crush them.  Why should we embark on purging them from their space when we can do so to -V- yet again?

Depends on who you talk to. Most feel just irritated by Krautbreak/CoW, and a fair amount of their pilots still claim that they hate Goons, but that's okay since no standings change has happened. Maybe I'm just thick, but neighbours were those entities you were supposed to shoot. Not support. That was limited to pets.

[Endie]

When you tell those neighbours that you'll help them then that's a different matter.  Especially if there are pragmatic reasons for taking some risks to defend them.  Anyway, the second time that Bobby refused to fight - when we were bridging into him at 1:2 odds against us, is the more informative.

The ROL death threats and IRL cash do matter to what I was saying, as it demonstrates one reason why everyone views AAA as we do..  Lots of GF simply didn't believe a word of it, and Darius got a lot of shit for posting about it, until the ROL guy himself made a series of posts about the figures and considerations involved.

The defence ops after Scavok's troll might have only lasted a day, but the response (an almost immediate attack on 49- that same week) went on a good bit longer.

And RA contains (I believe) three corps who were in the RA we knew, most notably Rush.  Even if the handle had changed twice and the blade replaced once, they would still be the same axe.  RA were hugely outnumbered, Atlas had sent fleets to aid against them before we turned up (and eventually based out of IRC stations, of all the dumb moves), and I say again: we stick by our friends, even if they are weakened.

Plus, this is what Goonfleet Foreign Legion does: we fly around 0.0 helping our friends and getting fun fights without having to do the clear-up after the war is won.  We're living the dream.  Don't hate us because we are beautiful, man.

[rand]

Maybe I'm just thick, but neighbours were those entities you were supposed to shoot. Not support. That was limited to pets.

aight fair enough, atlas doesn't feel the need to help ed/irc/mt/cow/v/whatever, why do they continually form big fleets and then fuck off doing nothing

[Sir T]

You had over 1500 pilots in 49- one weekend and had fleets comprised of 25 alliances the whole time. Our fleets were steady at 3-4 hundred from 8 alliances across the entire war.

NC were sending fleets down in the middle of Max now were they? REALLY? Was that before or after AAA threw everyone and their mother at Goonswarm who were pretty much on their own? Or are you including TCF? They only became part of NC when they took Delklin, which was AFTER BOB fled the north. Which was about 1-2 weeks after AAA invaded. It was the day after 0oy fell to us if you remember. And you might remember all the smack about how TCF and the north were leaving Goonswarm to rot, which went on from your side for months.

But its all about the ~good fights~ man. NOW, as I didn't hear you complaining about the huge fleets comprised of everyone and their mother when they were on YOUR side. Oddly, you didn't hear me complaining either. I thought that big massive attack with 1500 people was hilarious.

I wasn't in Goonswarm when it was in with Red alliance. but I was here in great war II, and I know what we owe XdeathX. You oddly didn't complain about massive powerblocks when you were facing them largly alone with a massive power block. But we owe XdeathX huge for what they did for us. And I'm paying back that debt in full.

The ironic thing is you still have numbers on your side. But ts all about ~good fights~ you know...

Maybe I'm just thick, but neighbours were those entities you were supposed to shoot. Not support. That was limited to pets.

aight fair enough, atlas doesn't feel the need to help ed/irc/mt/cow/v/whatever, why do they continually form big fleets and then fuck off doing nothing

Indeed, especially if the stated aim of the op in question is to help said - V -. That's how you win friends and influence people...

I don't think you will see many Veritas helping Bobby in future.

Oh and please take this to the other thread, where people might actually want to have this discussion. Thanks

[Sir T]

First, why in the name of all that is holy would we leave IRC/ED alone?  They attacked RA - our oldest allies who got us into conquerable 0.0 - at the very moment when they were trying to relieve the pressure on us in the face of a host of enemies.  They were always going to die for that, unless we did, first.  Goonfleet stick by the people who stick by us, and providing ~good fights~ for Oldma wasn't a motivation.

They other factor is they attacked our oldest allies AND SAID WE GAVE THEM PERMISSION TO DO IT. That was the part that sealed their fate as that pissed off everyone.

[setar]

aight fair enough, atlas doesn't feel the need to help ed/irc/mt/cow/v/whatever, why do they continually form big fleets and then fuck off doing nothing

No idea. Lack of coordination would be my guess, but it does seem half-hearted. Particularly since they seem to have the numbers; GS had it's fair share of CTAs to help RA but those fizzled due to a lack of pilots in the area. This here seems a different story, and I've got no idea why.

You had over 1500 pilots in 49- one weekend and had fleets comprised of 25 alliances the whole time. Our fleets were steady at 3-4 hundred from 8 alliances across the entire war.

Is this another game of 'you have more pilots than we do'? From the same person who just went into a large argument of how numbers are meaningless in the KIA vs TRI discussin :) ? But even then, tallies been done more than once during the campaign and turned out to be pretty even (or in favor of the GS/NC/TCF side) after the Haargoth event.

NC were sending fleets down in the middle of Max now were they? REALLY? Was that before or after AAA threw everyone and their mother at Goonswarm who were pretty much on their own? Or are you including TCF?

I love how you constantly evoke the idea that Goonswarm pilots were on their own. Yes, all 5000 of them. And you are saying GS/TCF only started working together after MAX? REALLY?

[Sir T]

GS had it's fair share of CTAs to help RA

We didn't have any CTAs to help RA. We were knee deep in Delve at the time, and we don't do CTAs.

You had over 1500 pilots in 49- one weekend and had fleets comprised of 25 alliances the whole time. Our fleets were steady at 3-4 hundred from 8 alliances across the entire war.

Is this another game of 'you have more pilots than we do'? From the same person who just went into a large argument of how numbers are meaningless in the KIA vs TRI discussin :) ? But even then, tallies been done more than once during the campaign and turned out to be pretty even (or in favor of the GS/NC/TCF side) after the Haargoth event.

Wrong. Every tally that was made showed you had more numbers on the massive list of alliances your side, right up until the final quarter of Delve II. Your tallies basically took everyone that had ever shot at you and added them to the opposition side no matter who they were. Your tallys were lies, used an an excuse and included lots of people neutral or red to goonswarm, including Minor Threat hilariously. And the only reason correct tallies were started as your smacktalkers were making wild claims about total numbers, which were shown to be completely false. You had the largest group of pilots ever assembled on your side and you lost. Get over it.

And what I said in the TRI discussion was that you were blowing hot air over total numbers to make some stupid point about people you hate, KIA, bieng crap. Those numbers were meaningless than and they are meaningless now. Because what you are doing here is making an excuse ahead of time for your alliance not doing anything; MEGABLOCKS. I'm looking at numbers, in fleet, fighting one another. All else is pointless. Its not my fault your overall participation was shit and people could not stand bieng in the same fleet as BOB fcs for more than 2 weeks.

NC were sending fleets down in the middle of Max now were they? REALLY? Was that before or after AAA threw everyone and their mother at Goonswarm who were pretty much on their own? Or are you including TCF?

I love how you constantly evoke the idea that Goonswarm pilots were on their own. Yes, all 5000 of them. And you are saying GS/TCF only started working together after MAX? REALLY?

Total numbers again... No, I'm I'm saying TCF became part of the NC after MAX, dumbass, so you can't retroactively say "Oh the NC was there because TCF was there" because NC wasn't there. And TCF left the south for nearly 2 months after AAA got thrown out of VNG. So I'm saying Goons and TCF stopped working together for a time after MAX. That's when BOB and EXE took over their territories in the south. You might remember trying and failing to stop NC taking them back.

And yes in all that time we were consistently blobbed to shit, and people like you were crowing that our allies had abandoned us.

[Meester]

[edit]Edited by: Starbud Paul on 02/08/2009 14:34:26[/edit]

OK ****bags
1) clown punchers u fail! so take ur t1 cruiser flying carebears and go play in syndicate where ur skills of such ellitness alow u to keep living their.
"plz tell me when did u ever hold sov space wait never mind  curse was  npc ? In fact who are U have u ever done anything important in this game except fail and think ur a ellite pvp force "

Now on to the insmother part!!
1)Some facts for u, -v- has achieved more than was expected even by us
2)You guys can try flair it up to ur self/deluded veiws or what ever u want

But lets look at some facts

a)It has taken 8 alliances to defeat -v- in insmother not 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 but 8

RED Alliance, Ultimate Ratio, Red army alliance, xdeathx,lucky league, u all FAILED to Beat -v- in fact -v- had u on ur knees in insmother in c-j that much they had to cry and pull in everything every blue to beat us.

b)!FACT! ONLY CAUSE GOONS AND THEIR LITTLE PETS ZENITH joined the fight that u have been able to over come the -v-


Do we fail lol NO

Do u and ur blue nap fest yes (lol 8 alliances to beat -v-)

we might lose insmother but we can go elsewhere and will survive. You lot will always fail and be tagged with it took u 8 alliances to beat -v- [:shock:]


-V- will not die! We are the face that looks u back in the mirror, The Creature that haunts ur dreams, -v- will be their when u the goonies are burning and ur empire of **** u call delve has fallen round u.

We are VERITAS IMMORTALIS (-V-)

From CAOD. This is why no one likes Veritas. This is also why they deserve to die.

[Sir T]

That guy also claimed that his Dread killed 3 opposition dreads before dying in the previous war. 

[Comstar]

Speaking of numbers, the typical GFFL+ZAF fleet was very rare to crack 100 pilots in fleet (I think the most was 160?), and RA cap fleets did the vast majority of the POS work. ZAF was also making up 10-30% of the fleets. If ATLAS and Sc0rtced Earth had combined with -V- the numbers would have been pretty much equal, with the advantage to them, and if you add Minor Threat, a meaningful one. And if AAA+ROL had showed up in numbers to equal the GFFL, an overwhelming one.

However, when -V- was forced to fight by themselves with no assistance from their friends and allies, they were doomed. It remains to be seen, if Sc0rtced Earth can avoid their fate (perhaps they will be the LV to ATLAS's BoB).

Still, I don't see ATLAS being in much trouble even if everyone of their allies (err, anyone else apart from Sc0rtced Earth?) or friends (AAA+ROL) don't come to help them, because there's no one else who *wants* to live in ATLAS's space (or live next door to AAA with their supply lines being so easy to block).

[Phildo]

Setar, when the -A- reset initially happened and they began invading Esoteria with Stainwagon and ROL, Goonswarm's ally list in the field looked like this: Rebellion, UNL and TCF.  When BoB left the north to come south, TCF then went north to claim the space that BoB was abandoning.  It was also then that TCF became a member of the NC and Razor/Morsus Mihi began preparations to come south.  They were chasing BoB for a little bit of payback, and also to even the numbers which had been swung significantly against Goonswarm when BoB entered the fight.

[trevorreznik]

A few quick points:
1) the fix vs iac fighting happened before the advent of sov levels.  I don't think it's possible to see that happen again, because the defensive advantages of sov make people very reluctant to be aggressive.  Part of that is also due to titan spam under jammers.  at this stage of eve fleet fights don't really happen unless a pos is involved.

2) goonswarm didn't fight atlas/se/coven/sysk alone prior to the -a- reset.  unl/tcf were the main factors in that fighting (largely due to timezone), and were the only reason gs was able to retake the moons that were lost.   -a- was almost involved a few times, but the goon fcs (with me relaying) couldn't get the logistics/staging worked out with morris/crusher to make it happen.  i can't remember how much zaf helped, i know they were around (maybe rebellion too?) but unl/tcf really carried that load.

3) i wasn't in on the ops, but was active at the time of scavok's post on shc.  at that point bob had been wiped out of delve, and scavok said something along the lines of 'we're going to catch next', and -a- had I believe 2-3 days of ctas where nothing happened because gs wasn't actually attacking catch.  It's pretty likely those ctas were in response to said post, but impossible to know for sure.  regardless, very very few of the -a- members believed an invasion of catch would happen, and most wanted it to happen because of the homeland defense benefits.

4) xdx owed gf, not vice versa, for the help last year in geminate :)

5) when -a- reset gs and attacked, gs was very outnumbered.  tcf was there a short time, unl was kind of around, and zaf was but they are small.  however, sov3 advantages helped somewhat, but what really made the first few months go the way they did was flat out phenomenal goon participation, including on some alarm clock ops to save 0oy/vng (or late night ops or whatever you want to call them if alarm clock is offensive to hear). 

on another note i really wish thug would reset everyone, i'd probably come back to eve if that happened.  i've been against large blue lists for a long, long time, and it's probably better for eve if alliances like -a- die in the face of a giant powerbloc than maintain the status quo

[Arthur_Parker]

Any update on what has happened to the ex BoB/Kenny corps?

[Endie]

Any update on what has happened to the ex BoB/Kenny corps?

Most went to join in faction warfare, eventually.  DICE are kinda currently helping Atlas et al in an apparently relaxed way, and were able to put out a fifty man ~wulfpack~ yesterday - although all they did was camp a station with three or four fleet members that got left behind - before heading off to do whatever they do these days... cap a plex in Amarr space or something like that.  Evolution are presumably not doing much, since in order to keep their straight-line epeen membership figures they never kicked anyone out: for months they had less than a couple of dozen actives out of five hundred nominal members.  BNC moved most of their industrialists into the main corp, which provided a boost for a while, but except for Dice, all the corps have gentle downward membership trends right now.

It's pretty much as everyone predicted: dice are the only ex-Kenny member corp to be doing anything of note at all, and the only ones not shrinking as a result.

[rand]

I love how you constantly evoke the idea that Goonswarm pilots were on their own. Yes, all 5000 of them. And you are saying GS/TCF only started working together after MAX? REALLY?

tcf was up north taking deklein. when bob came down south the first thing they did was start taking undefended systems in wicked creek with EXE, while GS was fighting AAASEROL with UNL. later TCF came down with scorched earth (lol) and kicked EXE out of wicked creek. tcf then came to help against AAASEROl, is my understanding

also why do pubbies keep talking about 5000 goon pilots

[Endie]

also why do pubbies keep talking about 5000 goon pilots

It is a well known fact that the other side in any Eve conflict have no alts.

[Phildo]

And consistently purge inactive members.

[Endie]

For those not yet aware: https://www.pandemic-legion.com/killboard/view_battle.php?start_time=2009-08-04%2000:28:00&end_time=2009-08-04%2004:04:00&system=Omam

That's a PL vs NC fleet fight in lowsec fight with 103 capitals killed between each side.  The rats in Venal will take a pounding for the next few weeks, or empire will be a lot quieter.  Goonswarm sent a frigate/inty gang to burn there and shoot those on either side we don't like.

The funny thing was Dastommy (the AJ Regard of Atlas) on Eve-O saying "guys guys now you see how good pvp is close to home yeah guys?"  Close to home.  Not, for instance, in Atlas space. 

Anyone with a line to Dastommye might want to tell him that the FCs from each side were chatting to each other throughout the fight.  On Jabber.  Goonfleet's Jabber.

[Endie]

Apparently AAA reset Atlas, Byrn, et al.  I think it may even have happened a couple of days ago.  I imagine that it's what Anton Marx and Dastommy have been busily calling a fake reset, though, when GF and PL and the NC do it, and that when we work our way round to hitting into the south-west they'll blue up again for ops.  If not, Atlas are screwed, because their last logistics route is only a few systems away from dying, and I imagine PL will camp the shit out of what's left of it.

Setar, any background?

[Meester]

It's pretty much as everyone predicted: dice are the only ex-Kenny member corp to be doing anything of note at all, and the only ones not shrinking as a result.

Theres an alliance called Quarantine Zone that is (presumably) headed up by Cardshark Influence which I believe is a DICE frenchwing corp. They are in the same area as Veritas (don't quote me on this as I cannot be bothered to look at the map) and hold one or two stations, so DICE might be living out of them (and Curse?).

[JoeTF]

It's pretty much as everyone predicted: dice are the only ex-Kenny member corp to be doing anything of note at all, and the only ones not shrinking as a result.

Nope, that's because they're the only corp that doesn't kick inactives out.

[Endie]

It's pretty much as everyone predicted: dice are the only ex-Kenny member corp to be doing anything of note at all, and the only ones not shrinking as a result.

Nope, that's because they're the only corp that doesn't kick inactives out.

Evolution sure as hell doesn't.  During the last month of Delve they had 500 members and (if I remember right) a dozen members on the KB.

Are you doing the Minnie FW option or what right now?

[Kovacs]

So the front page of the news has some sort of PL/NC et al. dust up.  Does it matter?

[Phildo]

Sons of Tangra just doomsdayed a small roaming Goonswarm gang.  There goes the neighborhood.

[Endie]

So the front page of the news has some sort of PL/NC et al. dust up.  Does it matter?

Look upwards: five posts up to be exact!

[Sir T]

I love how you constantly evoke the idea that Goonswarm pilots were on their own. Yes, all 5000 of them. And you are saying GS/TCF only started working together after MAX? REALLY?

tcf was up north taking deklein. when bob came down south the first thing they did was start taking undefended systems in wicked creek with EXE, while GS was fighting AAASEROL with UNL. later TCF came down with scorched earth (lol) and kicked EXE out of wicked creek. tcf then came to help against AAASEROl, is my understanding

also why do pubbies keep talking about 5000 goon pilots

Not exactly. The first thing BOB did was launch a high profile invasion of the undefended region Scalding Pass that Goons had officially abandoned before the war started. After a few days of shit on CAOD about how goons were losing POSs, all of a sudden Goons and XdeathX turned up to defend the region and smashed a BOB fleet or 2. Now faced with attacking a defended rejion, BOB moved on to undefended Wicked Creek within a day... and pulled in EXE to help just in case.

[Comstar]

News from the GFFL: ATLAS bails on yet another ally in 3AE.

Dateline: 3AE-CP, Station 3AE Lemmings City

Today Bobby Atlas one again failed to save yet another friendly alliance as several Quarantine Zone POS fell to a combined Red Alliance and GFFL operation. ATLAS corps were said to have set a 100% corporate tax rate in an attempt to force member pilots to show up to the Call To Arms.  Despite having even numbers in system and several smaller groups outside, ATLAS decided not to engage and are now locked into the system and have been logging out in disgust. Several DICE capital class ships were seen evacuating assets trapped inside the 3AE station. The DICE gang consisted of long rang sniping Heavy Assault Cruisers, no Battleships were seen on the battlefield.

Balls are reported to be blue.

[Sir T]

Faces are reported to be palmed.