War

[Fordel]

How many titans did BoB supposedly have?

[setar]

At their prime they had about 10-12 active titan pilots, but the actual number of ships was probably higher. To be fair to Molle (ugh!) he seems to have been running the show all by himself for the last few months. Only so much you can do that way, and without backup both on the FC side as well as backup titans tactical and strategic mistakes are bound to happen.

Not sure we (-A-) should be pointing fingers anyhow -- the decision to defend a handful of R64 instead of finishing off I1Y has to be up there in that list of bad decisions. Couldn't figure it out back then, and still have no idea what the point was unless leadership had decided alreadt to bail on Kenny.

[Endie]

Kenny have a fleet form-up at 16:00.  One way or another, this should be interesting to watch.

[Pax]

Hee hee hee

Frankly, I've been prodding AAA in various boards under various guises in the hope of trolling them into turning up, in the hope of actually getting a fight tomorrow. I seriously doubt its going to happen however. Like Mahrin said, the bullshit line is creating its own reality.

And Endie, I never said they were scared of goons, just that they don't want to fight goons. There's a difference :)

Anyway I'm in 3BK staring at their jammer tower right now. The jammer is still incapped as is every gun. There is no Kenny in local, just one red, and he is skunk works.

En fin.

"I am not bad at Eveposting I am controlling your gameforums."

I am entirely serious in saying that you would do yourself a power of good in the alliance if you would stop posting outside the corp forums for a few months, never post painfully unfunny chatlogs in TWR, and pretend that CAOD doesn't exist.  I say that as a friend.

He's actually making average LOVEU posters like myself seem decent by comparison. Don't make him stop.

Anyhow, the big invasion of Delve Querious Period Basis is supposed to start today, well into the ongoing 2 weeks op.

[MahrinSkel]

Not sure we (-A-) should be pointing fingers anyhow -- the decision to defend a handful of R64 instead of finishing off I1Y has to be up there in that list of bad decisions. Couldn't figure it out back then, and still have no idea what the point was unless leadership had decided alreadt to bail on Kenny.

It's really simple: Maintaining a strong central alliance authority requires funding for projects that are too big for the corps, but having to squeeze that funding from the membership of the alliance tends to weaken the alliance as a whole, especially as it requires playing one corp against another, constantly working to weaken your strongest corps so they can't rival the central leadership (as happened to FIX, where the second-strongest corp was kicked out and the strongest was driven into passive resistance to the central leadership, the resulting alliance lost most of its strength even though the central authority had more).  This is especially pronounced in a "cult of personality" dictatorship, where the leadership corp cannot brook any rivals.

R64 moon income gives the alliance leadership a way out of that trap, a significant revenue stream that it doesn't have to squeeze from the membership.  It's concentrated (in terms of being point-sourced rather than distributed across lots of belts and people), hard to steal from without detection, comparatively reliable, and not as vulnerable to being slashed to a fraction in wartime the way that refining/taxes are.  So when it comes to strategic decisions, the leadership is going to be biased towards protecting what it sees as its own oxygen supply over other interests.  FIX not having any R64 moons (except for a handful of secret moons that were controlled by corps or individuals) because BoB had eminent domain on them was the key stumbling block that set off the dysfunctionality of the last 6 months of FIX, no alliance that has managed to escape from the endless whining and wheedling that goes with having to get the corp leadership to buy into every major expenditure (and even in a dictatorship, they can always vote with their feet or passively resist) is going to welcome the prospect of losing part of that income and having to go back to begging the corp CEO's.

Beyond that, RKZ's victory is not a strategic priority for AAA, compared to keeping them on the field and thereby acting as a focus for enemies that otherwise might act directly against AAA.  If any particular station is or isn't taken only matters to ET as it affects RKZ remaining a player on the board.

--Dave

[Endie]

It seems like kenny's big cta was to jb some ships out of 49- to KFIE and maybe play with some towers.

In other news, PL just killed a Stain jump freighter. I think that makes four killed in the last few days from various of the hostiles, but one of the PL guys will know better.

[Fordel]

At their prime they had about 10-12 active titan pilots, but the actual number of ships was probably higher.

It's been mentioned before, but the PR camp should never have lasted past a weekend with that many damn Titans. Even if they lose a couple, they at least get their cap fleet back and prevent the month long humiliation/demoralization.

[Arthur_Parker]

I don't think Kenny will even try defending 49- when the attack hits.

[Endie]

I don't think Kenny will even try defending 49- when the attack hits.

I dunno.  I suppose we'll know that by how able they are to rep their poses after the first assault.  I assume that Bomber Down will be making it tricky, for sure.

Anyway, for like myself who believe that graphs are second only to maps amongst God's greatest gifts to us for poring over:

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8229/imgtimelinebig.png

This shows the Kenny membership, between the initial 3425 as the invasion began, through to the 2525 of yesterday, with major incidents annotated onto it (thankyou Gracchus Meichun).  I've not linked it because I seem to remember that imageshack causes problems for some non-goons, and it's not embedded because at useful resolutions it's hella big.  The analysts in the audience may wish to argue with me, but I see a (significantly downward-trending) head-and-shoulders pattern on the second part of the map.  That's overlaid on top of a surprisingly steady underlying fall, which the reformation of RKK Reloaded (it has been ongoing for far longer than marked on the graph) serves to obscure in the third quarter of the graph.

Have fun!

[Yoru]

What the hell happened on March 29th -> March 30th that caused the former to have a 3075 count while the latter has a 2800 count?

[Endie]

What the hell happened on March 29th -> March 30th that caused the former to have a 3075 count while the latter has a 2800 count?

That's the RKK -> RKK Reloaded move that I mentioned as distorting the otherwise steady downwards trend.

[Sir T]

What the hell happened on March 29th -> March 30th that caused the former to have a 3075 count while the latter has a 2800 count?

Quick Background.

A while back an RKK guy went fuck bob and sold his shares on the open market. From what I've been told you have shares in a corp, even one, you can see where Corp assets are, such as BPOs and so forth. When RKK lost all its towers they probably felt a silver lining was the opportunity to fix this. They formed a new corp called Reikuku Reloaded and got everyone to move to it over a week.

Much to their embarrassment, they had a lot of people still in RKK that did not move for various reasons (Inactive etc), and who left RKK and "forgot" to re-apply. So they dissolved RKK, created a new RKK corp 1 second later and moved everyone back. But all the people still in old RKK immediately left Kenny when old RKK went poof, which explains the sharp drop on that day.

[rand]

IRON is apparently collapsing, Razor/MM have gone north to fight Tri

[Endie]

IRON is apparently collapsing, Razor/MM have gone north to fight Tri

IRON started collapsing a good ten days ago.  MM/Razor have, indeed, jump-cloned up there to stabilise things.

[Fordel]

My reaction to that is: "Iron Still exists?"

[Simond]

IRON have two default states: 'Collapsing' and 'Recovering from a collapse' 

[trevorreznik]

I don't think Kenny will even try defending 49- when the attack hits.

I dunno.  I suppose we'll know that by how able they are to rep their poses after the first assault.  I assume that Bomber Down will be making it tricky, for sure.

Anyway, for like myself who believe that graphs are second only to maps amongst God's greatest gifts to us for poring over:

http://img30.imageshack.us/img30/8229/imgtimelinebig.png

This shows the Kenny membership, between the initial 3425 as the invasion began, through to the 2525 of yesterday, with major incidents annotated onto it (thankyou Gracchus Meichun).  I've not linked it because I seem to remember that imageshack causes problems for some non-goons, and it's not embedded because at useful resolutions it's hella big.  The analysts in the audience may wish to argue with me, but I see a (significantly downward-trending) head-and-shoulders pattern on the second part of the map.  That's overlaid on top of a surprisingly steady underlying fall, which the reformation of RKK Reloaded (it has been ongoing for far longer than marked on the graph) serves to obscure in the third quarter of the graph.

Have fun!

That graph is amazing.  I'm shocked at how closely it seems to mirror ups/downs in the war, because you'd think with 30 day account subs, it wouldn't respond that well, I suppose with 3000 members (and going with 1 member per account which is wrong but w/e) 100 accounts a day are up for resubbing/cancelling.

[Jayce]

Except that they wouldn't lose members from canceling accounts.

If your account is canceled your character stays in the corp.  In order to change numbers someone has to drop roles and leave the corp.

[IainC]

Except that they wouldn't lose members from canceling accounts.

If your account is canceled your character stays in the corp.  In order to change numbers someone has to drop roles and leave the corp.

it would be interesting to see the corresponding graphs for Kenny's alt corps, see if people are leaving 0.0 to go and run level 4s in Empire or whatever.

[Meester]

IRON is apparently collapsing, Razor/MM have gone north to fight Tri

Don't like IRON anyway, so good :D

[Viper ShizzIe]

In other news, PL just killed a Stain jump freighter. I think that makes four killed in the last few days from various of the hostiles, but one of the PL guys will know better.

Blackops + bombers o/\o

Also, this war sucks, and I finally decided to stop lurking.

[Gets]

I found this pretty entertaining - The A-Team... cancelled

PS: 'Sup, Viper Shizzle o/

[Slayerik]

In other news, PL just killed a Stain jump freighter. I think that makes four killed in the last few days from various of the hostiles, but one of the PL guys will know better.

Blackops + bombers o/\o

Also, this war sucks, and I finally decided to stop lurking.

The man, the legend. The Shizzle. You PL these days? I have been horribly inactive so i have no idea, I'm an old Viper Squad guy.

[Endie]

The Italians of Systematic Chaos and the Romanians of Legiunea Romana decided to deploy some capitals in Period Basis.  People from all sides here have been expressing scepticism as to whether they would do something that dumb, but they did.  The results were, as one might say, not entirely unfavourable to our side.  Nice to see a couple of hundred Goons pulling their weight in Euro Prime, too, even if most of us didn't even get here til it was all over bar the shouting.

KIA were sieging Romanian moons to stop them getting sov 3.   Coven and Sys-K along with the Romanians were forming up and had even numbers, but they seem to have been waiting for the 100-odd Kenny who were forming up in 49-.  By this point the hostiles had a substantial numbers advantage.  Romanians and Sys-K eventually jumped in and got wiped out.  Kenny then warped in and got doomsdayed.  And Sys-K decided to jump in a substantial carrier fleet (20-30 or so).  Not a superlative tactical decision, so they lost a bunch of carriers (13 confirmed kills posted so far, but there were self-destruct notices flashing up, and I'm not checking everyones' boards).  More dictors and they'd have lost the lot, but they got lucky that most of us in support were still en-route.

In all, not very many of the hostile fleets got away.  Some are trying as individuals, now, but are getting popped on the gates.

Now, of course, we see what happens with the two high-ends we have coming out soon right next door to Kenny in 49-.  Since the NC are away Kenny probably want to see if it's worth making a play at what is theoretically at least a very good time for them.

Edit: I just looked at the cap fleet and it seems to be 50/50 split between GS and PL.  Oh, and when Molle got blown up a bunch of goons were playing space-football with his bubbled pod.

[MahrinSkel]

The Italians of Systematic Chaos and the Romanians of Legiunea Romana decided to deploy some capitals in Period Basis.  People from all sides here have been expressing scepticism as to whether they would do something that dumb, but they did.  The results were, as one might say, not entirely unfavourable to our side.  Nice to see a couple of hundred Goons pulling their weight in Euro Prime, too, even if most of us didn't even get here til it was all over bar the shouting.

KIA were sieging Romanian moons to stop them getting sov 3.   Coven and Sys-K along with the Romanians were forming up and had even numbers, but they seem to have been waiting for the 100-odd Kenny who were forming up in 49-.  By this point the hostiles had a substantial numbers advantage.  Romanians and Sys-K eventually jumped in and got wiped out.  Kenny then warped in and got doomsdayed.  And Sys-K decided to jump in a substantial carrier fleet (20-30 or so).  Not a superlative tactical decision, so they lost a bunch of carriers.  More dictors and they'd have lost the lot, but they got lucky that most of us in support were still en-route.

Defeat in detail, sounds like more FC problems for RKZ, either they didn't have an experienced FC, the FC couldn't keep track of where his separate elements were, the subordinate alliances are no longer turning complete tactical control over to RKZ, or some combination of the three.  Maybe the FC tried to do some fancy pincers movement and couldn't pull it off, but that just comes back to "inexperienced".

--Dave

[Endie]

Yes, I wonder if the Kenzoku/Legiunea (Romanian)/Sys-K (Italian)/Coven (Polish) side have comms resources equivalent to our shared, pre-defined hierarchy of Jabber and TS channels for intel and command (perhaps through IRC), or if they are constantly trying to patch together via eve voice or chat channels in order to co-ordinate.  That was a big difference between Delve 1 and Delve 2 on our side.

Edit:

Also today, the Russians of Solar Fleet joined up with Tri, Kenny, AAA and Barbie to try and defend some Solar Fleet towers that were coming out in Geminate, as part of their fight with a couple of NC members.  Razor and MM went up to help out on the NC side.  Looks like the NC won handily but killboards do tend to lie: http://www.northern-coalition.com/?a=kill_related&kll_id=446494

A handful of UNL members turned up and seem to have shot both sides :shobon:.

Now, in Querious, we're rolling some dice after defending 5V.

[Endie]

Double-post time to say that 49- cyno jammer is now down.  The takedown was FCed by one of your hosts' F13 corp members .


edit: Enjoi, yesterday:

It should be pure epic, that Jammer tower is nasty and going to take a not-inconsiderable fleet to take down. I also don't think the coalition has what it takes.

[Trigona]

I was at the K25 fight last night in Germinate and it started off with fairly even numbers but over time the difference in NC firepower made all the difference and all but 1 Solar tower was destroyed making Sov 3 safe for WI.  The fight went on for a couple of hours but the NC ended up comfortably holding the field.

WI didn't make a lot of friends with NC the previous night, when they singularly failed to get involved in the action after the NC arrived to save their capital butt.  They did however prove adept at looting blue wrecks which made for a lot of chatter on corp comms as pilots wondered why the hell we were bothering to save such a scummy alliance.  One of my corp mates webbed and scrammed a WI looter doing his 'work' during an engagement but to his dismay got targetted instead by reds and had to let the low life go

[Endie]

WI didn't make a lot of friends with NC the previous night, when they singularly failed to get involved in the action after the NC arrived to save their capital butt.  They did however prove adept at looting blue wrecks which made for a lot of chatter on corp comms as pilots wondered why the hell we were bothering to save such a scummy alliance.

There must be something in the water up there.  When we went to Geminate to help KIA and Daisho, the Daisho people were always looting friendly wrecks, even during fights.  We twice started primarying them, after a lot of warnings.

[Viper ShizzIe]

You PL these days? I have been horribly inactive so i have no idea, I'm an old Viper Squad guy.

Yeah, I'm a director in OSHIT/PL.

As for the jammer takedown, no defense was staged from BoB+associates. I was pretty surprised we didn't get dd'd to hell when we started shooting it, guess we just got lucky. The two r64 posses in 49- were reinforced, decent timers for the defenders.

[Endie]

It must have been pretty demoralizing for Kenny members to wake up to.  I'd not be surprised (particularly from what Enjoi said, even if he was trying to provoke a response instead of just being dumb) if the average Kenzoku pleb genuinely thought that a jammer takedown in 49- would be a set-piece and a bloodbath, with titans shredding the attackers, Kenny fleets picking off targets and us running out of battleships and slinking back to 9CG with our tails between our legs.

Instead, they wake up and discover that we took the jammer down in 15 minutes with the loss of three ships (and another afterwards while working on mods) and that, far from being a big deal which saw us sieze the opportunity to reinforce everything, we just reinforced the R64s, the jammer tower and another, and shot services before heading out again.  Kenny have had such huge problems in taking down jammers themselves (without 200 Russians to help) that they have to rationalise that anyone else would, as well.

It could be different next time, of course.  It shouldn't have been hard for them to defend that tower.  Anyway, all the repping will give Bomber Down, PL, OEG and Rebellion stuff to shoot through the day.

[Sir T]

In other news, I1Y is sov 4.

[Endie]

People will think I am kidding, here, but it appears that molle has been given a fifth (Chowdown's) titan. Seriously.

[Predator Irl]

People will think I am kidding, here, but it appears that molle has been given a fifth (Chowdown's) titan. Seriously.

Excellent, I missed out on the last titan kill and was kicking myself for days!

[Pezzle]

I thought he took that Titan a couple years ago?