War

[setar]

Imitation being the sincerest form of flattery ;-) ?

[Sir T]

Mollie, in a fit of bravery and thirst for good fights, set another fleet formup to 9:30. 

That meant that 100% of the Coalition towers in I1Y were repped. Yes all 30.

[Pezzle]

Someone remind me who the coalition and alliance are in this conflict?

[Murgos]

Someone remind me who the coalition and alliance are in this conflict?

I'm one of them and I don't have a clue.

[Pax]

Someone remind me who the coalition and alliance are in this conflict?

Coalition: Goons + friends
Alliance: KenZoku + friedns

[Endie]

That is the first time I have ever heard anyone calling them the "Alliance".  They tried to use "Superfreinds" [sic].  ET reportedly likes the term "Bad Russians", as opposed to Death, UNL et al (Good Russians).  I think of them as the Paid Russians, thanks to their self-admitted RMT purchase, but that's just me.  AAA/Stain/ROL is a cumbersome way of putting it.  But Kenny really are such a minor pet in that lot these days that giving the status of ally (let alone granting that to the remnants of the GBC) seems wierd.

[Trebes]

That is the first time I have ever heard anyone calling them the "Alliance".

I think they were using the term "Alliance" back during the first war. I believe it is referenced in their "Withdrawal" video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1yS6iZWBiA&feature=related

Well, it's in the video description anyway. I guess that the reason you don't hear it used much is because two out of three members referenced in the video are dead.

[WindupAtheist]

That reminds me, where the hell are the propaganda videos we should be getting out of all this? I don't expect Ken has had much to crow about, but I was hoping goons would at least be sore winners. 

Anyway, since I maintain a passing interest in this game without actually playing it, sometimes I like to check in to make sure I'm reading things correctly. So tell me if this outside observer's take on things is correct: The war against BoB that dragged on for years is now essentially over. Their alliance has been disbanded and their core space occupied. But instead of a period of peace, things have segued seamlessly into a war between goons and AAA, the only two powers in each others league. A dispossesed BoB rump alliance continues to fight on under the Kenzoku banner while trumpeting about how they're going to take it all back, but they're now little more than a AAA pet in a war that's likely to grind on basically forever.

I don't know who every last alliance is, but am I getting the big picture?

[setar]

I guess this really depends whom you are asking. Some would claim that GS is nothing else but RAWR/TCF/PL's pet -- at least a fair amount of NC pilots feel that way judging by all their grumbling on the forums. Fact is, none of the alliances currently involved would be able to get much done on their own. Too much a game of numbers, time zones and logistics.

[WindupAtheist]

I guess this really depends whom you are asking. Some would claim that GS is nothing else but RAWR/TCF/PL's pet -- at least a fair amount of NC pilots feel that way judging by all their grumbling on the forums. Fact is, none of the alliances currently involved would be able to get much done on their own. Too much a game of numbers, time zones and logistics.

Yeah, I'm a little fuzzy on who the "and friends" are when it comes to the two sides.

[Meester]

I don't think the entities fighting against Goon & Co are that tightly knit especially since AAA used to be allied with the Goons and helped in the end with the current demise of BoB. Xenobyes of Stain Empire used to be AAA but they used to shoot AAA too when non-blue.

I currently see AAA & AAA Citizens as a bloc, the Stain wagon which is Stain Empire, COVEN & Systematic-Chaos and then theres KenZoku which is basically ex-BoB and pets. The rest is really just chaff.

[setar]

Probably should add Atlas to the list as well.

[Fordel]

I guess this really depends whom you are asking. Some would claim that GS is nothing else but RAWR/TCF/PL's pet -- at least a fair amount of NC pilots feel that way judging by all their grumbling on the forums. Fact is, none of the alliances currently involved would be able to get much done on their own. Too much a game of numbers, time zones and logistics.

Yeah, I'm a little fuzzy on who the "and friends" are when it comes to the two sides.

At this point, so are most of the participants. 



Sometimes it's easy to forget just how many people are involved. There are probably more people aligned to either side of this war then there are on my WoW server total.

[Sir T]

That is the first time I have ever heard anyone calling them the "Alliance".  They tried to use "Superfreinds" [sic].  ET reportedly likes the term "Bad Russians", as opposed to Death, UNL et al (Good Russians).  I think of them as the Paid Russians, thanks to their self-admitted RMT purchase, but that's just me.  AAA/Stain/ROL is a cumbersome way of putting it.  But Kenny really are such a minor pet in that lot these days that giving the status of ally (let alone granting that to the remnants of the GBC) seems wierd.

They used "superfreinds" as an insult to the coalition. "Superfriends" was what people called Tortuga, the MC lead superalliance that formed when MC temporarily went fuck BOB during the great war. Jake Noble in his awful gloat posts likes to blather that name to make some point that's not obvious to people outside his own head.

The "Alliance" was what people called the GBC and allies in the great war. Oddly the suggestion originally came from.. um... me. The coalition and the alliance were the 2 sides in the game Starlancer (and more famously in the intro to the game freelancer, so in a thread on EVEO talking about what the BOB side should be called (Everyone that wasn't BoB being oddly resistant to bing called BOB in fleets so Mollie could claim more kills) Since the Coalition were already calling themselves that, calling them the alliance made sense, and the name stuck for a while.

{edit} I really find it amusing as well the discussion on who is whos pet. Depending on the effect they want, Setars side either claim NC are goons pets or goons are NCs pets, which means they really don't have a clue, are trying to use it to cause friction and are trying to frame it in the only terms they know - the pets system. Which doesn't come close to capturing the true relationship.

[setar]

That meant that 100% of the Coalition towers in I1Y were repped. Yes all 30.

And all 15 friendly POS repped as well, about a dozen or so hostile ones back in reinforced.

[Meester]

Probably should add Atlas to the list as well.

Yeah, add Atlas and Red Overlord as seperate entities too.

[eldaec]

Yeah, add Atlas and Red Overlord as seperate entities too.

I'd regard these guys as client alliances of AAA now.

Their space is useless without AAA logistics access, militarily they are not strong enough to take any other space, and they couldn't hope to defend their space without AAA. Their position is exactly like that of EXE before BoB disbanded.

Power blocs worth a damn and what they appear to be doing.....

Coalition Forces

Goons - Defending Querious
PL - Defending Querious, and defending their own space from some shitty alliance of no importance
TCF - Riding Bikes
NC - Defending Querious
Good Russians - Attacking AAA

ASSCAKES Forces

AAA - Split between attacking Querious, defending aganst Good Russians, and wiping the noses of ROL and Atlas.
Stain Wagon - Attacking Querious
Kenny - Attacking Querious

Neutral

Providence - Building Stations
ED/IRC - Suiciding themselves on Good Russians
Drone Region -  Riding Bikes

[Sir T]

And all 15 friendly POS repped as well, about a dozen or so hostile ones back in reinforced.

Aside from the 2 of your side that were blown up, of course.

[Jayce]

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the foundations for this war were laid late last year. Our current CEO and then-head diplomat Zapawork reset Nync's RA corp (which became Red Overlord or ROL).  They had been hogging a static 10/10 plex that belonged to Goonswarm 23/7 for years while we were off fighting wars. They refused to leave it alone so Zapa finally did something about it.

That triggered RA to kick out Nync and his merry band, who then went to AAA and played the Russian race card, which along with the oft-mentioned aluminum tycoon's RL cash convinced Evil Thug (or Evil Tub as we're calling him now since he's plumped up a bit lately) to reset us.  BoB, off in the north with their MAX campaign which was doing little or nothing took the opportunity to dogpile on us as well.

When BoB was disbanded, that changed the face of the war, but essentially the same war carried on.  A lot of people couldn't figure out why AAA kept caring since they got the Tenerifis region that they wanted, but the answer appears to be that they think they're next to be attacked if we stay in Delve.  In addition, I've seen some remnants of the race thing mentioned by some slice of AAA, specifically Blaster Worm and some others in that faction.  Then there are others who "just hate goonies", which they apparently didn't six months ago?  Maybe some resident -A- can tell us more.

Regarding who is whose pet, I wanted to mention that KIA and ZAF are slated to get various regions of Delve/PB/Querious because we don't need it all.  Delve proper is enough for us.  These alliances won't be renters, they will call the place home.  PL is only involved out of hate for BoB and it's generally accepted that they will reset us the day that RKZ disbands.

[setar]

Aside from the 2 of your side that were blown up, of course.

Hmm. Not on our POS list, but I won't rule out that something was missed and will get updated soon -- you are talking about I1Y? Given that even folks from your side (like Phreeze) missed it probably not worth the rolling eyes.

Should be an interesting Sunday/Monday. Decent timers on some POS, RAWR going back home for a bit, TCF still riding bikes. Going to depend on the numbers that both sides can muster for the next round. As for why -A-'s attitude changed.. anyone who was on the fence about resetting GS got plenty of arguments as GS did their usual trick of turning 'awesome allies' to 'scum of the earth cheaters' within a few days. From a new member's perspective (and that of a grunt) this is less about propping up Kenny than having fun with Goonies.

[MahrinSkel]

As much as anything else, a lot of the participants find it more convenient to turn Querious into a free for all than to let things randomize.  Nobody except maybe the remnants of BoB actually cares what happens there, but if everyone went back to their corners there's no telling what would happen.

--Dave

[trevorreznik]

it's kind of alien to goons, but a lot of -a- just wants someone to fight, and goons are a pretty good counterpart for that even with the timezone differences.  that actually may be why goons were more appealing than bob, because if you fight someone in your own tz and lose, it's all over (not saying -a- would beat bob or bob -a-), but a tz war can go on forever

[Endie]

Aside from the 2 of your side that were blown up, of course.

Hmm. Not on our POS list, but I won't rule out that something was missed and will get updated soon -- you are talking about I1Y? Given that even folks from your side (like Phreeze) missed it probably not worth the rolling eyes.

I can't help but suspect that he's talking about the two Razor POSes we blew up in order to drop more towers.  We're all pretty stoked about that one, obviously. 

Should be an interesting Sunday/Monday. Decent timers on some POS, RAWR going back home for a bit, TCF still riding bikes. Going to depend on the numbers that both sides can muster for the next round. As for why -A-'s attitude changed.. anyone who was on the fence about resetting GS got plenty of arguments as GS did their usual trick of turning 'awesome allies' to 'scum of the earth cheaters' within a few days. From a new member's perspective (and that of a grunt) this is less about propping up Kenny than having fun with Goonies.

There are, of course, at least two perceptions of any conflict's roots.  It's been hashed over enough already, I suppose, but our view was that our "awesome allies" launched a pre-planned and unprovoked attack on us without warning, and that it soon transpired that, far from being about "good fights", that this was caused by the payment of real-world cash to AAA's leader.  Most people would react badly in the same situation vOv  Add to this the fact that the AAA reputation as "awesome allies" was a creation, largely, of Goonfleet's propagandists (in fact, AAA's record as allies was often hugely counter-productive, as it largely involved attacking second-tier members of the side they were allegedly on) to get a very different slant.

Add to this the fact that the "scum of the earth cheaters" allegations were pointed at ROL, who promptly got three titans, their pilots, and vast arrays of other assets stripped for the RMT transactions that we alleged (as admitted by the head of ROL himself) and ET's attempts to pull a Smoske to radicalise his community begin to look more dubious.

it's kind of alien to goons, but a lot of -a- just wants someone to fight, and goons are a pretty good counterpart for that even with the timezone differences.  that actually may be why goons were more appealing than bob, because if you fight someone in your own tz and lose, it's all over (not saying -a- would beat bob or bob -a-), but a tz war can go on forever

Oh come on, the only way to get goons to keep logging in is to give them the chance of a fight.  It's certainly the first time I've seen someone allege that goons are pacifists.  You, of all people, should know better.  This war has produced virtually no "good fights" at all.  Nobody is getting "someone to fight".  It's an RMT-funded contest of wills and patience where titans, stront-timing and out-of-TZ pos-shotting are the only important factors, and which will probably end up with significant numbers of people on both sides unsubscribing after it ends, regardless of the outcome, due to being burnt out on it.

[amiable]

It's an RMT-funded contest of wills and patience where titans, stront-timing and out-of-TZ pos-shotting are the only important factors, and which will probably end up with significant numbers of people on both sides unsubscribing after it ends, regardless of the outcome, due to being burnt out on it.

This, this a thousand times this.  At least the goons are honest about the general crappiness of this game.  I remember quite a few of us on this board complaining recently about Titans, when it was our titans doing the DDing...   After about 3 months months of POS warfare I'm feeling really burnt (it doesn't help that my wife subscribed to another MMO and expects me to play with her, but thats an aside).  The politics are interesting and exciting as any game ever created but the game mechanics have devolved into a situation where opponents seek to make the game the least fun possible for their enemies.  We've created (and by we I mean all the major alliances involved in this conflict) a situation worse than the worst WoW poopsocking where we literally log on in shifts 24 hours a day seven days a week and on weekends and holidays.  It's insane.

[setar]

I can't help but suspect that he's talking about the two Razor POSes we blew up in order to drop more towers.  We're all pretty stoked about that one, obviously. 

Yeah, didn't really count these as POS kills, sorry to say ;-) First GS (large?) tower with bad stront timing just got killed, along with a Rorqual and a decent amount of fuel that try to come to the rescue.

There are, of course, at least two perceptions of any conflict's roots.  It's been hashed over enough already, I suppose, but our view was that our "awesome allies" launched a pre-planned and unprovoked attack on us without warning, and that it soon transpired that, far from being about "good fights", that this was caused by the payment of real-world cash to AAA's leader.  Most people would react badly in the same situation vOv  Add to this the fact that the AAA reputation as "awesome allies" was a creation, largely, of Goonfleet's propagandists (in fact, AAA's record as allies was often hugely counter-productive, as it largely involved attacking second-tier members of the side they were allegedly on) to get a very different slant.

Absolutely agree. And this is of course also going to happen if RAWR (or any other entity) decides they had enough of this and reset everyone. But until one of the two megacoalitions collaprses or the rules of 0.0 sov warfare change we are likely stuck in the current cycle of events.

[Endie]

That said, one of darius' mistakes was in not booting the two or three people who were doing the whole 'I fuck your russian mothers' thing in local. Muting them and telling them off internally gave thug a way to legitamise his war. If handled differently, aaa probably wouldn't still be fighting and we'd be off in lowsec and empire doing fun stuff. By which I mean being killed by pandemic legion.

[setar]

Might be from SHC, but too good not to share:

[10:25:02] Viper ShizzIe > PL DREADS THAT LOGGED OFF AT THE JAMMER STANDBY
[10:25:04] Viper ShizzIe > andddddd
[10:25:05] Viper ShizzIe > that's local
[10:25:15] Bobbechk > FAIL

GS got decent timers on two BOB POS, but some of the hostile POS are also looking good, and we currently have the opportunity to add more to the pool. UNL also has close to 20 POS coming out all over the place in a bit. I sense lots of running back and forth.

[Zzulo]

POS warfare is the worst part of EVE

It's just so... slow, and tedious, grindy and ...slow.

I mean, territorial warfare is fun in itself but the way large alliances go about it these days is just so hoooorribly dull.

[setar]

Agree with the implementation. But the big picture is more exciting now than it has been for quite a while. You have the North starting to heat up again, putting pressure on NC. IRC/ED seem to be holding up for the moment, and in the east Atlas is doing well vs UNL. So the original plan -- to force AAA/SE/Coven to defend at multiple points -- has been turned on its head, and now the GS-affilicated forces need to be in several places at once.

Yet all that is needed is one major event, a titan loss, a logistic screw up for this to flip again completely. If just the actual game play was a bit more exciting...

Edit: In other news, we are running out of POS in I1Y to reinforce and have gone back to shooting station services; POS in other systems are also being reinforced. Helps knowing that NC is up North with 140+ caps.

Moar-edits-since-I-am-bored: More POS, station services, JBs disabled in ED- and 9CG. Good thing the Goon logistics team is hiring.

[Pezzle]

This is a brief overview of the week in Providence and our low sec activities.  There is some life outside of the large conflict involving most of 0.0.

On average CVA forces are involved in the destruction of 20 billion in assets a week.  CVA loses around 5 billion in assets a week engaged in those conflicts.  This week has seen more activity.  Given our wars and increased activity levels we sit around 27.5 Billion destroyed versus 3.7 lost.  The numbers are brought up only as a basis of understanding.  It is all API generated and distributed at this point (our board is one of the most accurate I have seen).  I could not guess at the levels that do not include CVA on one side or another.  For an area with no sov warfare I believe the violence to be considerable.

We are of course a 0.0 alliance and a great deal of our time is spent fighting the usual crowd of bored raiders from the Delve fight, random pirates and the disgruntled.  Recently our attentions have turned towards cleaning up empire space.  While this is only a small picture it is clear that *something* is going on in that grave yard we call low sec. 

We managed to catch 9 carriers and 5 dreads in low sec this week.  It is worth noting that not all of those were at a tower fight.  The largest engagement was against Minmatar militia forces (see my earlier blurb).  While we are not involved with the poo flinging monkey show called faction warfare I think we can all agree that killing your enemy is good.  Since we maintain the largest kos list in EVE that gives us plenty of targets!  5 hostile towers were also removed from low sec while 2 or 3 neutral/friendly were defended.  I do not think any of those fights were over a so called 'high-end' moon. 

The goings on in most of low sec are still a mystery.  It is clear that something happens.  As for the impact of conflicts there, that is anyone's guess.

[setar]

Bit of a logistics problem on the GS side in ED-, was wondering what was going on, but it seems someone did a house cleaning of roles without telling anyone: http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/6816/40720584.jpg

D'oh.

[Endie]

Bit of a logistics problem on the GS side in ED-, was wondering what was going on, but it seems someone did a house cleaning of roles without telling anyone: http://img39.imageshack.us/img39/6816/40720584.jpg

D'oh.

Yep, one of the directors got all vigorous with the security audit.  The results could have been a lot worse, too, if we'd not got an alternative in.

[setar]

Think we are done for now. 3 of our POS reinforced, 60 hostiles reinforced, some of them kited. Happy repping.

[Thrawn]

Think we are done for now. 3 of our POS reinforced, 60 hostiles reinforced, some of them kited. Happy repping.

Isn't EvE a great game?  One side spends hours of tedious reinforcing which results in forcing the other side to spend hours of mindless repping. 

[Miasma]

Yeah most of the 0.0 PvP consists of shooting at an immobile PvE phallic symbol for hours and hours, probably like 95% of fleet work.  That's kind of funny.