War

[Endie]

Since Sir T's post, things have moved on.  In a show of waning participation and failing commitment, we have spent the entire night owning Delve.  Finfleet attempted to ninja-online five towers in one system, but being Finfleet they tried to do so with a hostile FC in local doing logistics.  Four of their towers are dead, one is stronted for US prime.

Meanwhile, about 10% of all Kenny's towers in Delve are in reinforced at this moment.  It's no big deal, chief, just how we roll.

[eldaec]

   

Freedom also rings, in SVM-3K, GOP-GE and D-3GIQ

 

[Goumindong]

Also, last time they weren't mosrtly flying shit fit Ravens and Assault Frigates.

we weren't that bad, we've just improved our abilities massively. Our previous 4's fleet bs crew is now sitting at peak skills, and all the guys who were in cruisers are flying fleet bs.

[eldaec]

I meant last time Kenny wasn't flying Ravens and AFs.

I was subtlely implying that this time around Kenny ship fittings have been utter shit.

[Endie]

You're both right. My all 4s sniper is now an all-5s sniper. My covops is now an all-5s falcon pilot. I had no caps pilots, now I will have a third in 2 weeks.

But yes, kenny and barbie often aren't risking proper fleet BSs, now, which helps.

Also, latest figure is that just under one in five of all kenny's delve towers are now in reinforced.

[tmp]

They had Sov 3 and were only fighting goons last time. Its a lot different now.

Hmm no? Last time the anti-BoB coalition included pretty much most of EvE from what i recall. How many of them actually showed up might be discussed, but there was some northern alliances on the scene if nothing else, creating additional fronts in Fountain and east of Delve.

Unless you mean stuff more recent than that. But even then the point stands they did last through more than only goons before.

[Quinton]

Kenny just lost 4 more towers to a combined GS/TCF/RZR fleet in 5BTK-M.  I think we had nearly equal numbers at the start (~400 in system total after our ~200 strong group arrived shortly after the first tower came out).  They put up a fight at the first and last tower, but still lost all four towers.  Unclear on ship losses on either side.

Fun way to start my Sunday morning.  I was actually worried that we were not going to have nearly the numbers we needed, until we arrived on the last gate before 5BTK- and met a goodly sized TCF force.

<3 TCF

EDIT: It gets better and better.  Thanks for the killmail, Kenny.
http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/307301

We hang out while a tower onlines.  Rhea gets bumped out (didn't set pw) when POS comes online.  Kenny warps in a bunch of ships.  We engage, point, bubble.  They lost a Thanatos.  Pretty sure the Rhea got out safely.

EDIT2: Minor fuckup as we left the system, but I think our losses were minimal.  Kenny bugged out once we turned back and made sure the back 1/3 of the fleet cleared the gate.

EDIT3: Himo is the best Clowncar Captain.  Good work, man.

[Endie]

They had Sov 3 and were only fighting goons last time. Its a lot different now.

Hmm no? Last time the anti-BoB coalition included pretty much most of EvE from what i recall. How many of them actually showed up might be discussed, but there was some northern alliances on the scene if nothing else, creating additional fronts in Fountain and east of Delve.

Unless you mean stuff more recent than that. But even then the point stands they did last through more than only goons before.

Last time Goons turned up, and Razor did pretty well too.  PL were there, but had less strategic warfare capability.  TCF didn't play a huge part, though when they did we killed hella stuff and RA turned up about twice, only to lose a titan: they were utterly in confusion thanks to most of their director accounts being banned for ISK sales at the time.  AAA were far worse than useless: they rarely showed up unless promised a tackled titan, and when they did so they would generally camp a gate and shoot whatever blues that came in that weren't on .the small list of positive standings they had (how times change).

Now we have a straight out fight for space with no real sov advantages.  Yes, Bob had huge stashes of logistics in place while Goons had lost huge amounts of materiel by abandoning our space in a few days flat.  But it is basically down to a measure of who wants this more, and who has chosen competent allies.

Basically, the difference now is between a side who decided they wanted placid and well-behaved pets who would pay to get acces for space, and those who wanted competent and effective allies.  There is still no reason why Kenny can't hold their space: they have a huge blue list (I think I counted over 15,000 Bob and allied pilots in a post somewhere in the last few pages of this thread when they were all attacking Goonfleet) and their fleet numbers at the beginning of Max were big enough to hold their timezones and defend well-timed POSes against the coalition forces.  The problem is that they seem to be in early failure cascade right now: fair-weather members aren't showing up, lots of Barbie pilots are showing up in BCs, cruisers and frigates, and Bob pilots are flying HAC gangs rather than putting the work into making killing towers costly.

Maybe if they luck into a couple of dread fleet wins or a couple of titan kills they will regain a bit of morale and fight back.  I'm not going to make an idiot of myself like Dian does and pretend we'd rather have "good fights" and lose.  I think I'm pretty typical in wanting to simply humiliate Kenny and continue to make their game as unfun as they tried to make ours in their "Goons will never be allowed to build up in 0.0 space again/there are no goons" phase.

[Sparky]

They had Sov 3 and were only fighting goons last time. Its a lot different now.

Hmm no? Last time the anti-BoB coalition included pretty much most of EvE from what i recall. How many of them actually showed up might be discussed, but there was some northern alliances on the scene if nothing else, creating additional fronts in Fountain and east of Delve.

Unless you mean stuff more recent than that. But even then the point stands they did last through more than only goons before.

Kenny keep repeating this but it doesn't become any more true.  IF you include LV and their pets the initial Great War raw numbers were slightly in BoB's favour.  Without LV the good guys take the lead but not by a huge amount.  It's true by the time the coalition reached Delve they outnumbered BoB by a significant amount, but that's because BoB had left all their allies/pets out to dry in a boredom inducing fighting retreat across the south which ended with GS owning more space than they ever wanted.

[Yoru]

The slang is getting confusing. I get Kenny -> KenZoku, but who the fuck is Barbie supposed to be? AAA?

[Sparky]

Barbie are all the Kenny pets.  Ken's bitches you see...

[Yoru]

That's a particularly ridiculous term. Par for the course, I guess. 

[Endie]

That's a particularly ridiculous term. Par for the course, I guess. 

Its ridiculous and it is demeaning and it summarises the situation accuately.  Which is exactly why it is so useful.

Two more hostile towers destroyed in the last 90 minutes or so, and a bunch of hastily spammed razor and merchi towers saved, all despite the hostiles having superior numbers.  I think that the two we destroyed most recently were on R64 moons, which will help pay for a bunch more towers.  We also destroyed another tower earlier in Kenny prime in a fully-towered Kenny system.  All the other Kenny towers in that and another station system will come out of reinforced over the course of the next 24 hours.

I imagine that our problem tomorrow will be that with such huge numbers of towers coming out we cannot possibly get all of them, meaning we'll have to prioritise while Kenny gets to save some.  That said, who would want to be on their rep fleet tomorrow?  Burning days off work in order simply to rep towers would be harsh.  Unless they have plans to bring some help?

[trevorreznik]

That's a particularly ridiculous term. Par for the course, I guess. 

Its ridiculous and it is demeaning and it summarises the situation accuately.  Which is exactly why it is so useful.

I always thought Barbie was in control of the relationship, and that's why she was recently able to dump Ken.  So the analogy, while pretty funny, never made much sense!

One of the interesting parts of the Delve fight to me is how NC/GS/TCF/PL is dominating in eurotime, which only rarely happened last year.  A large part of it is due to no jammers, but also due to the increased server capabilities.  Last year, BoB was getting 300-350ish in NOL, and if we tried to jump in an even sized gang (which we didn't even have), we'd get slaughtered before ever loading grid.  That's not the case now, plus without the jammers stopping titanbridges, people don't even need to jump through gates as often.

[Sparky]

That's a particularly ridiculous term. Par for the course, I guess. 

Its ridiculous and it is demeaning and it summarises the situation accuately.  Which is exactly why it is so useful.

I always thought Barbie was in control of the relationship, and that's why she was recently able to dump Ken.  So the analogy, while pretty funny, never made much sense!

In February, 2006 however, a revamped version of the Ken doll was launched, and it appeared that their relationship was official again. [6] [7]

Don't scare me like that 

[tmp]

Kenny keep repeating this but it doesn't become any more true.  IF you include LV and their pets the initial Great War raw numbers were slightly in BoB's favour.  Without LV the good guys take the lead but not by a huge amount.  It's true by the time the coalition reached Delve they outnumbered BoB by a significant amount, but that's because BoB had left all their allies/pets out to dry in a boredom inducing fighting retreat across the south which ended with GS owning more space than they ever wanted.

Well uhmm, i guess it does become true over span of two sentences after all.

(i'm not discussing the reasons why it happened that way and whose lousy strategy is to thank for it, just the basic fact it did take place)

[Endie]

That's a particularly ridiculous term. Par for the course, I guess. 

Its ridiculous and it is demeaning and it summarises the situation accuately.  Which is exactly why it is so useful.

I always thought Barbie was in control of the relationship, and that's why she was recently able to dump Ken.  So the analogy, while pretty funny, never made much sense!

One of the interesting parts of the Delve fight to me is how NC/GS/TCF/PL is dominating in eurotime, which only rarely happened last year.  A large part of it is due to no jammers, but also due to the increased server capabilities.  Last year, BoB was getting 300-350ish in NOL, and if we tried to jump in an even sized gang (which we didn't even have), we'd get slaughtered before ever loading grid.  That's not the case now, plus without the jammers stopping titanbridges, people don't even need to jump through gates as often.

On the first bit, Kenny clearly went to Barbie all crying and shit and was like "baby I'm so sorry I let you make me hurt you I promise I ain't never gonna hurt you again" and she was like "oh he's good and really it was my fault for flying an armour-tanking raven anyways" then back to "[smack] bitch don't you ever try that again now get your shit into PR-."  Yes, I am channeling Fiddy here.

On the second, too right.  last time I was in PR- it was last year flying with some guys from TCF and though we got some more kills (obligatory Lord Wartron kill in a faction BS) than losses we were struggling to match the massive Bob+pet numbers.  Contrast and compare with what is there right now (hint: that isn't a Kenny fleet):



And for fun:

[tmp]

On the second, too right.  last time I was in PR- it was last year flying with some guys from TCF and though we got some more kills (obligatory Lord Wartron kill in a faction BS) than losses we were struggling to match the massive Bob+pet numbers.  Contrast and compare with what is there right now (hint: that isn't a Kenny fleet):

Is the game code really so much improved with that stackless thing of theirs? When i initially read about it i was thinking of maybe giving the game another go, but then in the reports from recent large scale battles it seemed to be back to the old stuff (desyncs, module lag, not loading grid, dying to invisible people you'd never load and all the funny usual things)

[Sparky]

On the second, too right.  last time I was in PR- it was last year flying with some guys from TCF and though we got some more kills (obligatory Lord Wartron kill in a faction BS) than losses we were struggling to match the massive Bob+pet numbers.  Contrast and compare with what is there right now (hint: that isn't a Kenny fleet):

Is the game code really so much improved with that stackless thing of theirs? When i initially read about it i was thinking of maybe giving the game another go, but then in the reports from recent large scale battles it seemed to be back to the old stuff (desyncs, module lag, not loading grid, dying to invisible people you'd never load and all the funny usual things)

Yes it's that much improved.  In the scale we're talking about here Eve clusters would've crashed a long time ago.  As it is we get some module lag.  Grid load stays brisk and you can manuver pretty well.  The fact titans have been dying so fast recently is in no small part due to stackless IO meaning huge HUGE blobs don't crash the servers any more.

[xorx]

It's much better, but as the capacity for larger battles has expanded, so has the definition of 'larger'. There was a time that 150 v 150 was a horrible and laggy 'fleet' battle - now we're in the realms of 700+ per side ... weapon grouping and the other lag improvements have made a huge difference. It's all relative though, and people often complain about lag or rubber-banding - where only a year or three ago, they'd have complained about never loading the grid and node-crashing :)

[tmp]

Hmm thanks, this sounds very interesting then. Guess i shouldn't be surprised people manage to bog it down still with more and more ships, that part of EvE never changes

[Endie]

On the second, too right.  last time I was in PR- it was last year flying with some guys from TCF and though we got some more kills (obligatory Lord Wartron kill in a faction BS) than losses we were struggling to match the massive Bob+pet numbers.  Contrast and compare with what is there right now (hint: that isn't a Kenny fleet):

Is the game code really so much improved with that stackless thing of theirs? When i initially read about it i was thinking of maybe giving the game another go, but then in the reports from recent large scale battles it seemed to be back to the old stuff (desyncs, module lag, not loading grid, dying to invisible people you'd never load and all the funny usual things)

On a reinforced node, the server can easily shrug off fights of the sort that would previously have been carried out in 20 minute module lag if the node even held: it's no conicidence that Molle has lost so many titans recently: he relied on lag and node crashes to escape on several occasions in the past.  Module lag itself has been pretty much limited to a few seconds in almost every fight I've been in for the last few months, and I have probably been in half a dozen over-900-in-local fights in the last 12 weeks.  One very nice thing is that you can now change ammo and scripts in seconds, mid-fight.  No longer, as a sniper, are you doomed to find yourself landing in a bubble at close range with spike, targetting and optimal range loaded for the whole fight.

There is a problem with modules cycling, but if you are smart you can deal with that in such a way as to still get pretty good firepower plus cap-free perma-MWD so it's not a huge biggy.  Since you're on the other side, no I ain't telling you how

[Thrawn]

Goons and friends camping a Ken and Barbie staging system in Delve.  Their is a station in the middle of all of those bubbles if you can make it out.  We also just popped a tower in NOL that was being anchored but didn't get onlined.

[sanctuary]

Thanks for the Razor propaganda poster. Always good for a laugh.

...Goonswarm, long time friends of Razor and reknowned beacons of honour, virtue and integrity!

*chuckle*

[Endie]

The big day begins.  First hostile tower down: http://killboard.goonfleet.com/km/308158

Edit: two more towers dead.  Seven Sangre Azul (ex-Fix) dreads hotdropped and destroyed as they misguidedly decided to join in and take a Kenny moon.  No idea about the details but it all sounds a bit hilarious.  Now we're into the bit where we have little hope of getting all the towers coming out since you can only destroy them so fast.  Cue Kenny posting that we're not winning fast enough.

Update:

Some Kenny tried to get out of PR-, which has been camped for about 12 hours solid.  If they had their medical clones set to another station then op success!
Second CSAA of the day destroyed.

Current destroyed tower count (that I know of, can't speak for all of Razor's): 5 + 1 newly reinforced (onto a US prime timer!)

[Meester]

Sangre Azul have been working alongside Morsus Mihi and maybe other northern entities to take Querious. Thats what it looks like on their killboards anyway.

[Endie]

This is provisional, as stuff is happening all over the place and I'm trying to work out wtf from multiple killboards, updates and more, but it looks like 14 towers have come out so far today: 1 friendly, 13 hostile. The friendly one was saved and all thirteen hostile ones are dead.  Also, another hostile tower reinforced on an excellent timer.   Some people are saying 19 hostile towers dead so far: if so they have access to a larger list of hostile towers than I do, but I know that there were more out today than I can see, so this is possible.

I believe that Kenny are still camped into PR-: if so then this has been the case for some 18 hours straight, and is a rather nice payback for Syndicate.  Some rather quick-thinking Barbies just capped the PUIG station for the explicit purpose of getting a jump freighter in there, doubtless with an evac in mind.

[Pezzle]

Something actually happened near us this weekend!  Providence forces totaling 400-500  moved down to GE-9 in Catch knocking UK towers in the area into reinforced.  A day later forces returned and destroyed the towers (2 larges and maybe a small or two were reinforced, not sure).  AAA bridged in 100 or so snipers on day 2 for a hit and run.  One quick engagement and the AAA left the field.

[Sir T]

Firesales have begun! Capitals are on contract in PR- One guy had a fuully fit dread on contract, ythnen someone must have yelled at him so he pulled it from contract undoced it and wither docked or QTRL-Qed

Oh and about all those with failth in BOB living from NPC stations and making a comback. this is PR- station, their staging ground as it has been over the past 12 hours. I dont think it needs much explination

http://img.waffleimages.com/f20d78e5ace9e38f486eb73f8fda5b8a449c4187/pr-bubbles.jpg

Grape, anyone?

[Thrawn]

Goons pop another large tower -


another tower down -


we also just doomsdayed an anomaly. 

[Predator Irl]

Something actually happened near us this weekend!  Providence forces totaling 400-500  moved down to GE-9 in Catch knocking UK towers in the area into reinforced.  A day later forces returned and destroyed the towers (2 larges and maybe a small or two were reinforced, not sure).  AAA bridged in 100 or so snipers on day 2 for a hit and run.  One quick engagement and the AAA left the field.

Grats on bashing UK, but I don't know why you guys don't take this opportunity to lash back at -A- while they have little backup. God knows they terrorise Provi enough.

[Quinton]

I am told every Kenny tower that has come out of reinforced today so far has been destroyed.  Have not been able to obtain a precise count.  The 18-bubble camp around the PR- station is pretty impressive, I must say.

[Murgos]

I am actually surprised that there is not more wrangling over the ground that GS is abandoning.  I would have expected some pretty epic fights over the land grab.

I wonder if it's just general lack of knowledge or disbelief?  Or, possibly there is so much vacuum that who ever has tried to move in has gotten something good and has been disinclined to try for more?

[bhodi]

That, and the land is just not that good ;)

[Endie]

Would you honestly attack AAA at a time when nobody else is, Pred?  I think CVA tacitly or explicitly agreed with AAA not to do anything sov-related in HED and since the rest of the coalition has disappeared to Delve that decision looks mighty sensible right now.  I am certain that there were voices in CVA pressing for a HED attack - there always are - but without the intention of making a wider move into Catch (which I think is a million miles away right now) it would be pointless and unsupportable, in the face of people who can field over a dozen titans in a single system.

You see, CVA is a lot like Finland in 1941 around Leningrad...

And the wrangling over our old space is just beginning, at least in Detorid and Scalding Pass.  Death just took out the remaining Kenny and (I think) AAA towers in DG-, which was our Russian heartland.