War

[Endie]

Yep, Bob finally managed to kill a titan (unpiloted don't count).

[Comstar]

I think it is a great pity that no Titan wreck will be kept there by CCP, battles such as this are epic and add history. It could be BoB's defining moment when they held off the Eastern Hordes, or RSF's symbol of overcoming loss to victory. Though I think that BoB evacuating their BPO's is as good as indication as any that this is not their moment of triumph.

Still, good reaction and battle tactics to allow the HAC to survive 2 DD's and pin down 1 Titan.

Repost from a BoB report on COAD
 

XoPhyte
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers    
Posted - 2008.02.16 20:41:00 - [20] - Quote
Report
Edited by: XoPhyte on 16/02/2008 20:49:30
Confirmed, Russian titan is down

Mini Battlereport....

Hostile carrier set as bait, we warp in to aggress, Oort comes in, battleships / support issued command to warp out, lag, DD, good number of us got DD'D (do not know exact cout as of yet).

Blooded heromy in a heavy interdictor burns towards Oort and after what seems like forever gets a focused script on him.

Friendlies warp in to engage. Oort is SLOWLY losing shield. We have concerns about Blooded staying alive and losing point. Eventually at around 30% shield one of the dreads finally enters siege and begins to fire. At this point Oort goes down VERY quickly.

Mini battle is still raging.

And LOL lord! Very Happy

[Endie]

I hate that we threw Bob a bone by doing this stuff in their prime.  I would far rather we just used our superiority to repeatedly play the same game we did in QY6.  But some people play the game to have fun I suppose... weirdos 

That said, it was the guys own personal titan to throw away, he has the ISK to replace it, and it'll only delay things a week or so from the morale boost to Bob.

I suppose that the key difference between this and Shrike is that Bob won't be in Scalding Pass in seven months.

[JoeTF]

You know, he DD my precious ship once. He deserved to die. On more serious note, RA are the only ones that actually use their titans in combat against us, there are 16 hostile titans operating against us and russian ones are the only ones we actually get to see.

In totally unrelated note, Mr. Vile rat managed to get gagged for smacking on local. Yes, theVile rat, super duper real life official GS diplomat. And you say that Siddy is bad ^_^

[Endie]

The thing to judge a diplomat on is not whether he is gagged in local, but whether he has arrayed against his enemies a powerful and coherent alliance.  If he has, then he is a good diplomat.  If, however, his allies have disappeared and his friends are non-existent*, then he is a bad diplomat.

*Imaginary "friends" with tails and catgirl ears do not count.

[Der Helm]

Bruce plays Eve ? 

[Endie]

Now that we've got a taste for it, we're throwing away our supercaps at a hilarious tempo now: a Razor Nyx (a mothership), possibly trying to save a carrier which was already dead, warped into a fight and got blown up.  To be fair to Razor, they seem to care as little about losses in pursuance of The Greater Goal as we do.  Eyes on the prize, brosefs.

[JoeTF]

Oh c'mon, you can make goons the superheroes of EVE, but phleaze, not RAZOR.
Those guys are loosing ships because they're bloody incompetent, plain and simple. If it wasn't for Coallition, they wouldn't be in 0.0 at all. Hell, they would probably got their asses kicked from Empire as well (I heard sisi is wonderful this time of year). 

[Endie]

Oh c'mon, you can make goons the superheroes of EVE, but phleaze, not RAZOR.
Those guys are loosing ships because they're bloody incompetent, plain and simple. If it wasn't for Coallition, they wouldn't be in 0.0 at all. Hell, they would probably got their asses kicked from Empire as well (I heard sisi is wonderful this time of year). 

I prefer to say that they're having trouble adjusting to the pace and scale of southern warfare 

But what I really meant is that they're keen, and that they are quick to jump in and try and support their allies.  How well they do with this is open for argument.

[LC]

Now that we've got a taste for it, we're throwing away our supercaps at a hilarious tempo now: a Razor Nyx (a mothership), possibly trying to save a carrier which was already dead, warped into a fight and got blown up.  To be fair to Razor, they seem to care as little about losses in pursuance of The Greater Goal as we do.  Eyes on the prize, brosefs.

I like reading about dead super caps. Keep up the the good work!

[JoeTF]

Just to prove my point:
According to RAZOR themselves, MS didn't died valiantly trying to help his friend in a carrier, but because he fucked up and warped to the wrong moon:D

[Endie]

Just to prove my point:
According to RAZOR themselves, MS didn't died valiantly trying to help his friend in a carrier, but because he fucked up and warped to the wrong moon:D

That makes sense.  There was a lot of head-scratching on the goon boards as to exactly why this apparently valiant but doomed rescue effort was made when the carrier involved was dead by then.

[amiable]

Bob's current meme is that "Goons are poor" and "they pressed the attack too quickly and didn't give their pilots time to replace their losses" thus they are getting hammered in NOL.  Seems a bit silly to me considering ir looks like they are losing sov in other areas while the fight in NOL continues.  There seems to be a lot less activity by Goons on CAOD as well, but I'm not sure if that is attributable to poor goon morale or mass CCP bannings... 

[Endie]

Goons are currently in the "bloody hell, we actually got here: we're sieging NOL" phase.  Morale is just perky.

As regards money, we're getting richer all the time, particularly as all those moons that Bob lost come online.  We also have a looot of secure ratting space.

[bhodi]

Goons are currently in the "bloody hell, we actually got here: we're sieging NOL" phase.  Morale is just perky.

As regards money, we're getting richer all the time, particularly as all those moons that Bob lost come online.  We also have a looot of secure ratting space.

Is this a troll, then?

BoB are outnumbering us in every timezone by poopsocking and alarmclocking every op we call. Inevitably our FC's cannot engage even with double the numbers because we all know what will happen if we engage BoB: we will lag out, they won't, and we'll die.

I have to be honest with you: this isn't going well. Participation in GS is getting lower by the day because people either lag out and die or we get blueballed because FC's don't want to suicide our entire fleet.

edit: At the end of the day we're still going to rape BoB but it's hard to make inspirational speeches when our allies start losing supercaps like this.

[Endie]

Goons are currently in the "bloody hell, we actually got here: we're sieging NOL" phase.  Morale is just perky.

As regards money, we're getting richer all the time, particularly as all those moons that Bob lost come online.  We also have a looot of secure ratting space.

Is this a troll, then?

BoB are outnumbering us in every timezone by poopsocking and alarmclocking every op we call. Inevitably our FC's cannot engage even with double the numbers because we all know what will happen if we engage BoB: we will lag out, they won't, and we'll die.

I have to be honest with you: this isn't going well. Participation in GS is getting lower by the day because people either lag out and die or we get blueballed because FC's don't want to suicide our entire fleet.

edit: At the end of the day we're still going to rape BoB but it's hard to make inspirational speeches when our allies start losing supercaps like this.

Normally i would say it is a troll, but knowing Hydrosan, he probably profoundly believes it.

[JoeTF]

Bob's current meme is that "Goons are poor" and "they pressed the attack too quickly and didn't give their pilots time to replace their losses" thus they are getting hammered in NOL.  Seems a bit silly to me considering ir looks like they are losing sov in other areas while the fight in NOL continues.  There seems to be a lot less activity by Goons on CAOD as well, but I'm not sure if that is attributable to poor goon morale or mass CCP bannings... 

That one probably came from one topic in BoB forums, where one guy run stat on what dead goons do. Of all killed BS flying goons, only like 10% returned in another BS, everyone slse either not going back or returning in support. Tbh research sample was too small to make it meaningful, but apparently it didn't stop some people from making conclusions.

[Endie]

Bob's current meme is that "Goons are poor" and "they pressed the attack too quickly and didn't give their pilots time to replace their losses" thus they are getting hammered in NOL.  Seems a bit silly to me considering ir looks like they are losing sov in other areas while the fight in NOL continues.  There seems to be a lot less activity by Goons on CAOD as well, but I'm not sure if that is attributable to poor goon morale or mass CCP bannings... 

That one probably came from one topic in BoB forums, where one guy run stat on what dead goons do. Of all killed BS flying goons, only like 10% returned in another BS, everyone slse either not going back or returning in support. Tbh research sample was too small to make it meaningful, but apparently it didn't stop some people from making conclusions.

It's true that we're at the end of long supply lines, so we have a much harder time than Bob getting the right ships as actions go on.  We've got a few things going on that are beginning to deal with that, though, and our lines are shorter than they were in Feyth and Esoteria, which helps.

[Moosehands]

That one probably came from one topic in BoB forums, where one guy run stat on what dead goons do. Of all killed BS flying goons, only like 10% returned in another BS, everyone slse either not going back or returning in support. Tbh research sample was too small to make it meaningful, but apparently it didn't stop some people from making conclusions.

My admittedly limited understanding of the situation on the frontlines is that this is more of a logistics problem than a cash problem.  Goons are having some troubles getting a significant stash of ships into NOL and the surrounding areas.

As a funny anecdote, last night a corpmate of mine spent 30 minutes running around systems adjacent to NOL putting together a tackling incursus (we don't get free GF frigates because they hate us).  He got it all fitted, warped to the fleet, bounced off a friendly cap, and was immediately killed by blues for bumping.   

[JoeTF]

lol, especially dying to blues part.

Didn't the goons have jb network going nearly into delve and a titan to fill the gap though?

[Sir T]

lol, especially dying to blues part.

Didn't the goons have jb network going nearly into delve and a titan to fill the gap though?

You know the jump bridge part merely confirms this BOB member does not have a clue about how the real actual game mechanics actually work for everyone else.

[Endie]

As a funny anecdote, last night a corpmate of mine spent 30 minutes running around systems adjacent to NOL putting together a tackling incursus (we don't get free GF frigates because they hate us).  He got it all fitted, warped to the fleet, bounced off a friendly cap, and was immediately killed by blues for bumping.   

If he is the guy (Mark Amarr?) that wasn't on TS, and who turned on his MWD and went straight for a carrier sitting near the edge of the shields to where Kookman was waiting in his rapier to web it, with Bob warping in within seconds of him leaving the shields then, if I was your mate, I wouldn't hold my breath for a goon gang invite, since he has his own thread title right now.

[Moosehands]

If he is the guy (Mark Amarr?) that wasn't on TS, and who turned on his MWD and went straight for a carrier sitting near the edge of the shields to where Kookman was waiting in his rapier to web it, with Bob warping in within seconds of him leaving the shields then, if I was your mate, I wouldn't hold my breath for a goon gang invite, since he has his own thread title right now.

No just some random Groon newbie with an anime name that I can't remember.  We all laughed at him.

[JoeTF]

Bob's current meme is that "Goons are poor" and "they pressed the attack too quickly and didn't give their pilots time to replace their losses" thus they are getting hammered in NOL.  Seems a bit silly to me considering ir looks like they are losing sov in other areas while the fight in NOL continues.  There seems to be a lot less activity by Goons on CAOD as well, but I'm not sure if that is attributable to poor goon morale or mass CCP bannings... 

That one probably came from one topic in BoB forums, where one guy run stat on what dead goons do. Of all killed BS flying goons, only like 10% returned in another BS, everyone slse either not going back or returning in support. Tbh research sample was too small to make it meaningful, but apparently it didn't stop some people from making conclusions.

A bit more on that. Proper research was done and one of it's findings was that true goon BS retention rate was 44%. For all the talk about being obsessed about K/D ratios, maintaining accurate killboard gives you an incredible statistical tool. All the alliances that are shitposting their's are shooting themselves in the feet.

[Vedi]

That's actually a quite useful statistic! There are probably others you can come up with as well to measure some indication of logistics and morale that could strategically be very important. It's probably a nice morale-boosting measure for you guys too, knowing that if you get rid of a BS, it is more likely to come back a cruiser than just another BS, at least in the short term.

[Fordel]

A bit more on that. Proper research was done and one of it's findings was that true goon BS retention rate was 44%. For all the talk about being obsessed about K/D ratios, maintaining accurate killboard gives you an incredible statistical tool. All the alliances that are shitposting their's are shooting themselves in the feet.

Over what time period? Do they never come back in a Battleship? Does it take a day? A week? A few hours?

[Endie]

These sort of ship statistics are exactly the reason that we will never retake XGH and 9-9, let alone drive across nine regions and start taking sov 4 station systems in Delve itself.

[JoeTF]

Over what time period? Do they never come back in a Battleship? Does it take a day? A week? A few hours?

Data collected from period of six months. yes they didn't comeback in BS anymore, most of those who did come back in BS did so in 3 days (might confirm supply lines issue).

[Fordel]

I wonder how many of the folks that don't come back are just going "Fuck it, autopilot noobship ahoy!" for the long ass trip from friendly to front line space.


It's a interesting number, but it doesn't seem to be holding back the overall attack as Endie alluded.


How many battles would have swung in the Swarms favor if they had 44% more BattleShips etc? Doesn't seem to be too many that have mattered so far. At least not on the macro sense.

[Endie]

How many battles would have swung in the Swarms favor if they had 44% more BattleShips etc? Doesn't seem to be too many that have mattered so far. At least not on the macro sense.

Hardly any.  Our enemy is not the resources Bob can bring to bear, nor the skillpoints of their pilots.  Frankly, RISE were better in open fights for a very long time than Bob are proving.  The issue is lag: Bob deal with lag better than us, whether for tinfoil reasons or simply the advantage of defending.  We'll get better and better at this too, and sooner or later the dice will fall the other way in a lagfest and we'll end up with a workable hotdrop.  But for the moment our enemy simply deploys a couple of hundred fighters (which don't suffer from lag at all, being controlled by the servers) in a cynojammed system with titan backup and invites us to lag out.  That is a very smart tactic, and was pretty much their only successful tactic during their long retreat across the south, especially in O0Y.

Their converse is that it consistently failed as an offensive strategy, so it's not going to get them Delve back: in O0Y it just led to us getting carrier kills when they tried to retreive their sov count.

[cevik]

A bit more on that. Proper research was done and one of it's findings was that true goon BS retention rate was 44%. For all the talk about being obsessed about K/D ratios, maintaining accurate killboard gives you an incredible statistical tool. All the alliances that are shitposting their's are shooting themselves in the feet.

Did the person doing the research give you BoB numbers to compare to?  Or numbers from any other alliance that you've fought?  What about not only the 6 month retention rate but also that rate sliced into monthly increments or, even better, cut into slices that approximate the various goon offensive pushes.

By itself the number doesn't seem either useful or surprising.  In fact, in a game like eve I would imagine that a 44% retention rate on an attacking pvp force is probably quite high, considering the setup time for a pvp fleet and the travel time to move across space back to the front line.

[JoeTF]

Endie, your post is so absurd you must have been choking in absinthe haze when you wrote it. Srsly, I expected better from you.

cevik:
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I wrote that 44% is actually quite good (for all the posturing about plaing for fun only at least). Regarding more detailed data, I'm afraid I have to answer Endie style - not cleared for public :/

[Murgos]

Endie, your post is so absurd you must have been choking in absinthe haze when you wrote it. Srsly, I expected better from you.

Jesus Christ.  They've pushed you guys back to your core systems.  Stop drinking the Kool-aid, it's got a funny taste and it's not healthy.

[Endie]

Endie, your post is so absurd you must have been choking in absinthe haze when you wrote it. Srsly, I expected better from you.

You know, i don't think you get it yet.  Your guy has analysed our ship-replacement patterns for months.  A period during which we have thrown you out of nine out of your ten regions.  You have now lost sov four constellation sovereignty several times faster than RISE did, despite having incomparably greater resources to call upon than them.  Do you not think that perhaps this means that your friend's results should be interpreted in the light of "how do these patterns aid - or fail to hinder - Goonfleet in throwing us out of almost all of our space already?

[Akkori]

Why can't you guys  fight fire with fire and throw 200 fighters at BoB fleets? Make it a battle of the AI ftw?