War

[Sparky]

This thread is an internet hate machine

[Chenghiz]

I think that kind of thread is more readily found on CAOD.

[Arthur_Parker]

I was always a fan of all the various types of Bees in Goonfleet. I remember seeing a big picture showcasing them all, but I don't remember where.

This is an old version, not seen a new one.

[Simond]

Apparently, MM & friends have started (or are about to start) taking potshots at some of MCs northern POSes - moon mining ones first, rather than deathstars.

Now we wait.

[Endie]

For those wondering what's happening in general, i have lost count of how many station systems we have taken in the last week: something like four or five from Bob, ISS, Corm et all, but it is hard to keep track. 

McBob hasn't been resting either: they managed to blow up a POS in FAT, which for them is worth mentioning.

[Fordel]

Hah yes, those are the Bees!  :-D

[Simond]

Apparently, MM & friends have started (or are about to start) taking potshots at some of MCs northern POSes - moon mining ones first, rather than deathstars.

Now we wait.

...but not for very long. MC has surrendered their northern holdings without attempting to defend them.

[neep]

MC has been napped until they clear out their holdings in the north by Bite Mihi (MM).

May the last one in the lagfest win but it won't be me. I'll go back to the mindless fun and senseless 'gank and be ganked' until the insane fleet lag clears up a bit.

Games should be fun after all and right now we are at a point where every major conflict between alliances ends up in a pile up of pilots too large for CCP's servers to handle. The question whether your side will be able to lag out the others or vice versa is only entertaining for so long. Every major engagement lands you and your pilots in a stupor where even the simplest of actions takes 15 minutes to half an hour to complete. At that point fighting 300vs300 fleetfights becomes simply ridiculous.

There is not much fun to be had in major alliance conflict lately and that's sad because it has been great before.
I've grown with this game from simple 10 vs 10 wars until my corp grew large enough to take on everything that flew between the belts but sadly enough the hardware infrastructure has been unable to keep up with game design and how it was implemented by the players.

The last one in the lag wars will win and I, for one, am quite happy it won't be me

[Drogo]

So I heard that TRI is attacking You What. Is this a serious move to remove them from their space or just TRI looking for some pew pew?

Also what is going on with the South? I have not heard about much going on besides in FAT, are goons just waiting for the Eye of Terror to open and not bothering to attack other systems in the meantime? Seems like goons should be stripping all of the Feyth stations from BoB right now while they wait for RISE to fall. I know Goons took the Corm stations and TCF grabbed a station from ISS, but the map shows another six BoB stations that should be up for grabs with them focused on FAT. Admittedly, three of those stations have SOV4 and I do not know how hard that would be to break, but it seems like RSF should be making a move for them at least.

Anyway just looking for more updates. It seems like news from the south has slowed down a bit.

[Ratadm]

So I heard that TRI is attacking You What. Is this a serious move to remove them from their space or just TRI looking for some pew pew?

I've heard that you what is just trying to clear off some fat.  They've recently grown huge and gained a lot of deadweight corps and I hear there is to try and cull the herd a bit.

[Slayerik]

I'm just a TRI grunt. All POSes in c4c are in reinforced....we'll see tomorrow whats up I imagine.

[Slayerik]

So far TRI has really put a whooping on YW. From my perspective, even with superior numbers...they just dont want to engage. They seem to be hoping for us to jump into dumb traps and what not.

My favorite part so far is we were searching for a cloaked carrier when a ceptor warped to him at zero , de-cloaked em, and warped away. Our 50 some battleships took em down real fast. So far, it hasnt been pretty for YW. Hopefully they will mount a real defense and not surrender.

http://triumvirate.zoop.com.au/?a=home (our KB has been beat to submission)

[JoeTF]

Endie, please say thank Mr. Mittani for this little gem, made me fall out of chair laughing:

The best explanations of BoB's relative invulnerability to lag are those which apply to all of BoB's wars. Every group that has ever fought BoB has noted this phenomenon--going back years--and many of them are smaller (BoB is one of the game's largest alliances, after all).

Perhaps the reason why so many find the character ID explanation so attractive is that it doesn't require any action or even awareness on the part of BoB members. During the ASCN war it was assumed that BoB members used some kind of lag-reducing technique that others simply weren't aware of because there were no spies in BoB. With spies having full access to BoB now, we know that isn't the case. The other explanation offered was BoB's Euro-centric playerbase having lower pings. But there seems to be a lot of variation in grid-loading speed among those in Britain.

Nothing CCP can do will fix the problem of lag in a system of 600+ people. The problem isn't lag anyway, it's that the lag has a disproportionate effect on certain groups. BoB knows that it is not affected by lag as much. Do BoB members know why? Probably not. Do they care why? No. But they do depend upon it. Their leaders trust that in any supremely laggy engagement, they will win, possibly with no losses. BoB has won much of its space and reputation for this very reason.

The character ID explanation is as good as I've heard, and it can be looked into. All it would take is to find the reason, present it to CCP, and they'd say "shucks, I guess that would benefit older members more. We'll take five minutes to make it random in the next patch."

Remember the desyncs a few months ago that didn't affect BoB? And then a patch came, BoB tried to continue to take advantage in big battles and suddenly both sides were affected evenly by desyncs so they had to stop? It's possible the same thing was going on there, and CCP fixed it.

Yes, I realize that mere mention of lag and BoB in the same post will infuriate the anti-tinfoil crowd, but even they must realize by now that the sample size has grown well beyond what is required for a statistically significant result...

[Arthur_Parker]

That's a post by James 315 and not by The Mittani.

It's been commented on for a long time that BoB seem to be a lot more "lucky", avoiding the negative affects of lag than their opponents in large engagements.  During the ASCN war it was tinfoiled that a CCP dev had increased the processing priority of the BoB alliance above all other alliances for server side calculations.

The other popular tinfoil theory (as seen in the quote) is that older characters have an automatic priority for server processing due to a lower character ID (BoB would have more older characters than anyone else).

I think it's fair to say that most people would consider either theory pretty far fetched.  BoB probably just has better fleet discipline with their members actually following recommended tactics to minimise lag (zoomed out view, tweaked configuration settings etc) combined with a higher percentage of UK players who benefit from a lower ping to the servers.

[Fordel]

The ID theory might, in some strange way, be plausible, if horribly unlikely in reality.

but :

During the ASCN war it was tinfoiled that a CCP dev had increased the processing priority of the BoB alliance above all other alliances for server side calculations.

Who the hell would design a game this way? What legitimate reason would there be for such a feature.

[Arthur_Parker]

Personally, I think both ideas are retarded. 

I'll try to hunt down the origins of the ASCN theory. 

Edit to add, there was a rumour that T20 talked about linking the eve database cluster to verify killmails on Bob's killboard, so something along those lines might have started it all.  I can't find t20's original comment, just people repeating he said it, there's just too much information to filter if you search on BoB, CCP, t20 and killboards.

[Simond]

BoB probably just has better fleet discipline with their members actually following recommended tactics to minimise lag (zoomed out view, tweaked configuration settings etc) combined with a higher percentage of UK players who benefit from a lower ping to the servers.

This, plus indirectly manipulating lag by clever use of carriers/MS when defending. There's a critical mass of fighters on grid after which pretty much every piloted ship lags out but fighters can continue shooting unaffected. With the number of motherships BoB has access to, they can pretty much make this happen whenever they have to.

Of course, long term this is a bad strategy in much the same way as over-reliance on remote Titan DD was a bad strategy - CCP fixes things, suddenly your main tactical tool goes away, you need to find a replacement ASAP, and your pilots are out of practice with real combat. Until such a time, it's effective.

[Simond]

BoB has FAT
(Insert Lady Scarlet joke here)

[JoeTF]

Also, ET drank a little to much and domsdayed wrong fleet, his own that is:P

Simond, wonder full little theroy you have thrre, except for one little thing:

fighters do not auto aggress

Until you shot the fighter or it's owner, or owner decides to shot you, fighters will just stay there staring at empty emptiness of space.

[Drogo]

The FAT victory sure seems to have done loads for the GBC morale. I cannot remember the last time I saw that many BoB characters post in a single thread.

I am trying to figure out what the next stage of the MC/BoB, attack strategy is. They obviously want to try and reduce the number of fronts they have to fight on. I would guess that they will try to drive IAC completely out of their space and then turn south and try to remove AAA from their territory, which would leave them back on the frontlines to fight RSF again in Feyth on a single front. Removing AAA from their space might be a tall order though and they might lose many stations in the meantime in Feyth and Esoteria. It will be interesting to see what they do next.

[LC]

I am trying to figure out what the next stage of the MC/BoB, attack strategy is.

My personal strategy is to buy a carrier to replace the rokh I can't find.

[Endie]

The FAT thing: well done to MC for taking it.  Really, it's thanks to good manipulation of temporary game weaknesses re lag, but we'd do the same thing.  Of course, by my count we have taken at least 7 stations in the south in the time it has taken for MC and assorted allies to take that one, so they have to hope that IAC suddenly collapses.  Lag aside, MC & co would have lost too many caps and supercaps to sustain their approach, and it will bite them eventually.  Luck was on their side though (or low primary keys  :-D ).

Likewise with the DD, ET fired off a doomsday at his own POS, and thanks to a CCP feature the DD ignored the POS shields and hit the friendly ships in his own POS.  Couldn't be simpler: this happened to D2 and they got reimbursed: the same will happen to the AAA pilots.

[Simond]

The FAT victory sure seems to have done loads for the GBC morale. I cannot remember the last time I saw that many BoB characters post in a single thread.

The most hilarious part of that thread is all the posts from RISE/CORM/M.PIRE/etc. people: "Hooray, BoB took FAT from IAC! PS. I'm posting this from empire because the RSF/New Old North took all my alliance's space because we couldn't defend it without BoB/MC helping us"

I am trying to figure out what the next stage of the MC/BoB, attack strategy is. They obviously want to try and reduce the number of fronts they have to fight on.

Which is why I'm watching TRI's demolition of YouWhat closely, and also waiting to see what MM+friends do next. Either one of those two deciding "Bored now. Time to attack BoB" would screw over MC's plan, possibly irrevocably.

[Slayerik]

The FAT victory sure seems to have done loads for the GBC morale. I cannot remember the last time I saw that many BoB characters post in a single thread.

The most hilarious part of that thread is all the posts from RISE/CORM/M.PIRE/etc. people: "Hooray, BoB took FAT from IAC! PS. I'm posting this from empire because the RSF/New Old North took all my alliance's space because we couldn't defend it without BoB/MC helping us"

I am trying to figure out what the next stage of the MC/BoB, attack strategy is. They obviously want to try and reduce the number of fronts they have to fight on.

Which is why I'm watching TRI's demolition of YouWhat closely, and also waiting to see what MM+friends do next. Either one of those two deciding "Bored now. Time to attack BoB" would screw over MC's plan, possibly irrevocably.

Well, we are already bored with Youwhat. They refuse to mount a defense in L-C, minus one fleet battle where we knocked out the Cyno jammer and a decent engagement at a POS. It really looks like they have wrote off Fade, and will probably mount some kind of defense in Cloud Ring. Our morale is high, but we aren't the best at sitting around for hours and not getting pew pew. Hopefully they bring it soon.

We took one station already, and C4C station will be ours soon. L-C is next on the list, then I believe there is one more in Fade and thats a wrap.

I believe if/when we finish off Youwhat and capture Cloud Ring, I wouldnt expect POS wars from TRI against Bob. I could see (and would be one of the people promoting this) roaming gank from us as CR seems a like a nice way into Fountain.

[Drogo]

A nicely written and seemingly unbiased summary of the Great War so far was posted on CAOD. It is actually a pretty good read, I am looking forward to his future posts on the war. It was strange to see many GBC, RSF and unaligned alliances all agree on something in a CAOD post. I had to look out my window to make sure Armageddon had not started.

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=610645

[Simond]

This one can speak for itself, I think:
http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=611554

M.Pire has had a long history with the Band of Brothers alliance.

When the entirety of Eve was against BoB, we stayed blue.

When we went south to help them in their fight against their enemies, we stayed blue.

When we lost our space against their enemies in the North, we stayed blue.

When we went south to relocate and help them fight against their enemies, they wanted to charge us 6 Billion isk / Corp to live in their space and fight for them.

Wait, what?

See you in space.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnRwQjTYfGI

Eastbound and down, motherfrakkers.

[Drogo]

An interesting turn of events. If I were RSF I would be offering up Feyth space to whichever alliance can come in and take it. For instance offer MPIRE the northern half of Feyth if they take down the three BoB stations there and asking Frege or someone else to come and clear out the southern Feyth BoB stations. That way Feyth falls and RSF can continue to focus on Rise and other BoB pets like EXE and ISS. With the loses to IAC in catch, the coalition needs to speed up its offensive against the southern BoB territory in my opinion. This war can be decided much quicker if RSF finds a way to demoralize BoB allies by continually removing BoB pets and taking more territory than BoB does. If it continues to be a stalemate with BoB and RSF switching stations about evenly in Catch and Feyth, then this war is going drag on far longer than it needs to. Someone in RSF also really needs to entice the northern coalition into opening another front against BoB as well. Things are not going well for BoB with the exception of the MC plan to take over Catch, now is a critical time deliver a decisive blow to BoB and shake the faith of their allies.

[Simond]

Oh, and the Eye of Terror has opened.

[JoeTF]

M.Pire thing.
so they were MC allies for like several months and they still went to negotiate with Lady Scarlet? Of all the people?
I mean, thats such a spin it makes you cry.

When you chose single most wrong person to deal with your affair instead of all the people you known, have long standing relationship with and much more specialized to deal with your issue and when you stick for that poorly chosen person when negotiations go haywire instead of going for proper diplomacy channels at best you're asking for disaster.
Single convo with Seleene would have fixed it. In fact, they had an appointment with him. Except that instead showing up, Gungankllr started crap fest on eve-o.

[Arthur_Parker]

Lady Scarlet is greedy, c/d?

[Endie]

I have to agree with you Joe, that it sounds like Bob were finessed rather nicely by anti-Bob elements in M.Pire.  Which isn't to say that Bob's "diplomats" didn't play right into their hands, but there definitely seems to be an agenda.  I don't know if there was GIA infiltration at command level, or old grudges from STK, or simply a desire to be on the winning side for once (which at least one senior M.Pire person has mentioned).

Whichever it is, those taking the decision have shown how to play politics, and have managed to swing a lot of their members in behind the move.  What surprised me is that, Berrik the Retard aside, the majority of GF opinion seems to have moved rapidly towards them, just for having the guts to make the right call.  We have allies we detest, so its not just a matter of them switching onto our side.

The interesting thing is what it reveals about the ethos of the GBC and the contrast with their enemies.  Bob lets M.Pire fight themselves into the ground in a doomed sacrificial holding action against huge odds aimed at giving them time in FAT and Feyth, then says "ratting right?  Sure! That'll be 6bn a month!" (I don't believe the 42bn figure, myself: at most, somebody in Bob suffered mathfail and it was leapt on by anti-Bob elements).  And then express surprise when someone responds "fuck you!"

I'll bet one outcome will be a real plummetting in RISE numbers as they realise what they'll get when it happens to them.

Is Tholarim an alt of lady Scarlet by the way, Joe?  If not, then he is just as bad.  If you give these people the ability to speak for your alliance then it's kinda inevitable pets will continue to leak...

[cmlancas]

I read this thread every day hoping for more dramabombs. Why have you killed the laughter, Goons?

[Endie]

I read this thread every day hoping for more dramabombs. Why have you killed the laughter, Goons?

Erm, how much drama do you need?  We're laughing.  :-D  Let's look at this past month:

Downside:
IAC get driven out of FAT and a couple of other stations
More RSF/IAAAC dreads killed than Bob ones (trying to be fair here and find stuff)
Tolon drunkenly crashes Mom

Upside:
Corm get thrown out of Feyth
RISE humiliated and thrown out their own station systems by about 20 pilots. Down by almost 1/3 of their members.
ISS lose stations to RSF
Bob lose stations to RSF
RSF reach Esoteria for the first time
M.Pire (one of Bob's biggest and most loyal pets) go Fuck Bob and swap sides
MC lose a titan
Fatal, Sparta, CoW and the rest of the GBC up north get thrown out
The Eye of Terror opens
Goonfleet now officially rich as fuck!  Dreads and Moms handed out like candy!

Neutral but good for us for now:
YW getting annihilated by Triumvirate

Or does someone have to steal our titan fund to make you happy?    Dance goons!  Dance!   :-D

[Slayerik]

That M Pire swing is pretty big. Minus a 50+ cap ship fleet on Bob side, plus a 50+ cap fleet on RSF

Youwhat are shiting themselves at the moment. One cap pilot (Mom and dread), krall amarr, decided to join MC to get blue standings to try to get the fuck outta Youwhat. Not sure why we have MC blue, dont really care either. Last I heard , he's camped in L-C station. Their membership numbers dropping. After Fade, there is Cloud Ring. From Cloud Ring....Fountain? (I dont see us doing any territorial warfare in there TBH)

If we were somehow convinced by the Northerners in MM/RZR and co. to allow the Cloud Ring station as a staging point........ That would be huge trouble for BoB.

Either way, once we get Cloud Ring I'll be doing roaming gank in Fountain FOR SURE. Die Bobits, die.

[Simond]

I read this thread every day hoping for more dramabombs. Why have you killed the laughter, Goons?

M.Pire confirming that BoB does charge for space for most of their front-line pets after all is worth it alone, tbqh.

(RISE are still paying 6bn/month rent for space they haven't been able to use for weeks  )