Hunter spec

[Xanthippe]

Here's what I came up with for a BM build.

While I'd like to have Hawk Eye, there's no room for it. 

I'm currently very unhappy with my  MM spec, although I couldn't wait to go back to it after switching to BM to level from 60 to 70.  My equipment is not very good, and I'll probably end up upgrading to BG stuff if I play my hunter much at all.

Please critique, thanks.

[Merusk]

Before I look, what are you doing with your character besides PvP? Raiding? Farming? Instance runs? That'll help fine-tune things.

[Xanthippe]

AV and farming herbs, maybe a little world pvp.  No arenas, instances when my friends get tired of my whining but that's like once a month if that.  They like my lock much better.  Even my shadow priest is more popular.

That's pretty much it.

[Merusk]

Well then,  I'd say it's a decent spec for what you're thinking of doing.  I'd Drop imp. hunter's mark in favor of Eagle-Eye for AV, and put that last point into Go for the Throat, though. It's only 100 AP for your pet when farming and you're going to really miss that range in AV, I know I do.

If you want to pick-up a damage-buff FI is > than Imp Hunter's mark by a huge margin.  IHM only affects melee, while FI is a straight damage increase for everyone. Casters, melee, your pet and you. 

I'd also probably drop Catlike Reflexes.   It's meant to improve pet's survivability in Raid-encounters so they can dodge cleaves.  I didn't pick it up and I don't notice much of a difference in raiding.. general farming/ pve it's not going to make a big dent at all.

I'm torn on saying drop Spirit Bond, but you're farming and it's incredibly useful there.  It's a pity you put 47 points into Beast and didn't pick-up TBW, though.

[Morat20]

I'd suggest something more like this.

(Admittedly, it's pretty much what I'm about to respec into).

The point in "Bestial Swiftness"  can go anywhere in it's tree -- I just needed to spend a point to open up a tier. You could move the two points out of Bestial Discipline into Spirit Bond (or Endurance training -- that was a tough one for me to give up, but Improved Hawk is better), since Go For the Throat should proc often enough. Make sure your pet has a focus dump if you use either. Rapid Killing means you can use Rapid Fire a lot, and you'll have damage boosts often enough from killing enemies in PvP.

Make sure you spec your pet with Cobra Reflexes (faster attacks = more crits = Ferocious Inspiration up more often. a 3% buff to all damage is nice. Works for you, your pet, anyone in your party in AV, etc). In PvP, the Beast Within and Bestian Wrath are good for getting attention paid to you or your pet (seriously, half the enemies in the area will suddenly turn on your pet. It's really not that powerful, but a giant red pet is an eyecatcher) if you're being a distraction, or want to take attention off something else. (I do that more than I thought I would).

It's a decent group PvP spec -- you're constantly buffing your group (any damage -- melee, magic, etc, unlike Trueshot) without costing mana, you're getting extra damage off of killing blows, you're going to be proccing Hawk, Rapid Killing, and FI a lot for serious damage, and you have the full benefit of Serpent's Switfness and Lethal and Mortal shots.

You do lose Hawk's Eye, which I'm going to miss. It is nice in AV.

[Edited: Stupidly copied your build as the link, instead of my suggested one. Fixed now].

[Xanthippe]

Well then,  I'd say it's a decent spec for what you're thinking of doing.  I'd Drop imp. hunter's mark in favor of Eagle-Eye for AV, and put that last point into Go for the Throat, though. It's only 100 AP for your pet when farming and you're going to really miss that range in AV, I know I do.

If you want to pick-up a damage-buff FI is > than Imp Hunter's mark by a huge margin.  IHM only affects melee, while FI is a straight damage increase for everyone. Casters, melee, your pet and you. 

I'd also probably drop Catlike Reflexes.   It's meant to improve pet's survivability in Raid-encounters so they can dodge cleaves.  I didn't pick it up and I don't notice much of a difference in raiding.. general farming/ pve it's not going to make a big dent at all.

I'm torn on saying drop Spirit Bond, but you're farming and it's incredibly useful there.  It's a pity you put 47 points into Beast and didn't pick-up TBW, though.

I figured Catlike Reflexes would be good for pvp.  I'll take it out if it's not.

TBW is about increasing my damage, right?  My melee is laughable no matter how much that would beef it up - does it also increase ranged damage?

Ok, changed it up a little.  How's this?

[Morat20]

I figured Catlike Reflexes would be good for pvp.  I'll take it out if it's not.

TBW is about increasing my damage, right?  My melee is laughable no matter how much that would beef it up - does it also increase ranged damage?

Ok, changed it up a little.  How's this?

TBW is all damage, and reduces mana costs too. It's nice. Animal Handler isn't worth it -- miss chances against equal-level opponents are pretty low as is, and the speed is better if you use bestial swiftness + dash/charge/whatever.

I finally posted a correct spec on my link, which I think is a slightly better PvP spec unless you're going pure survival.

Improved Concussive Shot simply isn't worth it -- it's only useful in WSG, and even then it doesn't proc enough. Better to use the pet + Intimidate (with Bestial Swiftness + dash/charge they'll catch up). Better yet, get a boar -- charge has a stun, then you can slam Intimidate, and you sill have the CS snare.

You really want 5/5 in Lethal Shots, for more use of Kill Command (more crits = more kill commands). I really need a macro to automatically trigger kill. Rapid Killing for PvP is really nice, and your pet will never run out of focus with that and Bestial Discipline. Aimed Shot is useless, but Mortal Shots is worth the point.

Pet spec is more vital. You really do want a PvP only pet. You want cobra reflexes, and avoidance isn't that bad as there's a lot of AoE in PvP (AE spamming mages, mostly). You want high Frost, Fire, and Shadow resists as well. Extra health (too much cuts through armor in PvP).

[Driakos]

I figured Catlike Reflexes would be good for pvp.  I'll take it out if it's not.

TBW is about increasing my damage, right?  My melee is laughable no matter how much that would beef it up - does it also increase ranged damage?

Ok, changed it up a little.  How's this?

TBW is about getting out of all CC.  As a mage/warlock, I really hate it. :)

[Threash]

TBW is basically THE reason to even be bm specced.  It does increase all your damage by 10% but the main thing is that it makes you unCCable for the 18 seconds it last, which is normally more than enough time to finish off one person without much trouble.  Catlike reflexes isnt bad for farming, but ferocious inspiration is much better.  Animal handler is actually quite good for raiding, your pets miss rate goes up quite a bit against boss mobs, but if you are not doing any raiding i wouldn't worry about getting it.  This is my default raiding spec for maximizing damage output, all i do is weave steady/auto shots and consistently top the damage charts in my guild.  Skipping mortal shots is probably a bad idea, even for hawk eye.

[Morat20]

That's basically my spec, except I ignore Animal Handler in favor of thick hide. But that's for PvE -- and I still use my UBRS warg as my PvE pet.

[Xanthippe]

I'd suggest something more like this.

(Admittedly, it's pretty much what I'm about to respec into).

The point in "Bestial Swiftness"  can go anywhere in it's tree -- I just needed to spend a point to open up a tier. You could move the two points out of Bestial Discipline into Spirit Bond (or Endurance training -- that was a tough one for me to give up, but Improved Hawk is better), since Go For the Throat should proc often enough. Make sure your pet has a focus dump if you use either. Rapid Killing means you can use Rapid Fire a lot, and you'll have damage boosts often enough from killing enemies in PvP.

Make sure you spec your pet with Cobra Reflexes (faster attacks = more crits = Ferocious Inspiration up more often. a 3% buff to all damage is nice. Works for you, your pet, anyone in your party in AV, etc). In PvP, the Beast Within and Bestian Wrath are good for getting attention paid to you or your pet (seriously, half the enemies in the area will suddenly turn on your pet. It's really not that powerful, but a giant red pet is an eyecatcher) if you're being a distraction, or want to take attention off something else. (I do that more than I thought I would).

It's a decent group PvP spec -- you're constantly buffing your group (any damage -- melee, magic, etc, unlike Trueshot) without costing mana, you're getting extra damage off of killing blows, you're going to be proccing Hawk, Rapid Killing, and FI a lot for serious damage, and you have the full benefit of Serpent's Switfness and Lethal and Mortal shots.

You do lose Hawk's Eye, which I'm going to miss. It is nice in AV.

[Edited: Stupidly copied your build as the link, instead of my suggested one. Fixed now].

I think I'm going to try this one.

I appreciate all the input.  Thanks much, everyone.

[Merusk]

Heh Threash. Your spec is the exact same as mine except for one point.  I just couldn't give-up all of Spirit Bond when I respecced, so I've got one point in it and miss one in Mortal Shots.  I really should fix that, but meh.

[Threash]

When i get 2 pieces of tier 5 ill drop mend pet for spirit bond.

[Merusk]

Well that's just sense right there.  Tho, tbh wonder iff it's still useful tol keep a point in it for cleansing purposes.

[Threash]

Well so far, at least in raiding, i havent run into any fights were the dispel came in handy.  If it got rid of leos dot it would be invaluable but it doesnt.

[Phred]

Pet spec is more vital. You really do want a PvP only pet. You want cobra reflexes, and avoidance isn't that bad as there's a lot of AoE in PvP (AE spamming mages, mostly). You want high Frost, Fire, and Shadow resists as well. Extra health (too much cuts through armor in PvP).

cobra reflexes:
I can't find much info on this. Do you have it? Is it really only learned from King B? Can anything but a cat learn it?
Same questions for avoidance.

[Threash]

Pet spec is more vital. You really do want a PvP only pet. You want cobra reflexes, and avoidance isn't that bad as there's a lot of AoE in PvP (AE spamming mages, mostly). You want high Frost, Fire, and Shadow resists as well. Extra health (too much cuts through armor in PvP).

cobra reflexes:
I can't find much info on this. Do you have it? Is it really only learned from King B? Can anything but a cat learn it?
Same questions for avoidance.

Its learned from the pet trainer, you dont have to do anything special to get either of them, any pet can train both of them.  They are both a must for pvp and pve and every pet should have them.

[Morat20]

Pet spec is more vital. You really do want a PvP only pet. You want cobra reflexes, and avoidance isn't that bad as there's a lot of AoE in PvP (AE spamming mages, mostly). You want high Frost, Fire, and Shadow resists as well. Extra health (too much cuts through armor in PvP).

cobra reflexes:
I can't find much info on this. Do you have it? Is it really only learned from King B? Can anything but a cat learn it?
Same questions for avoidance.

Nah, pet trainers have it. Cobra Reflexes increases attack speed by 20% but lowers damage -- I think overall DPS is the same with or without it. Avoidance drastically boosts your pet's chances of getting hit with AoE -- or maybe the damage from it. Don't recall.

[Threash]

Pet spec is more vital. You really do want a PvP only pet. You want cobra reflexes, and avoidance isn't that bad as there's a lot of AoE in PvP (AE spamming mages, mostly). You want high Frost, Fire, and Shadow resists as well. Extra health (too much cuts through armor in PvP).

cobra reflexes:
I can't find much info on this. Do you have it? Is it really only learned from King B? Can anything but a cat learn it?
Same questions for avoidance.

Nah, pet trainers have it. Cobra Reflexes increases attack speed by 20% but lowers damage -- I think overall DPS is the same with or without it. Avoidance drastically boosts your pet's chances of getting hit with AoE -- or maybe the damage from it. Don't recall.

Actually cobra reflexes is a very good dps increase overall.  Avoidance gives 25/50% less damage from AE attacks, it used to be chance to avoid (hence the name) but that was deemed too powerfull.

[Phred]

Its learned from the pet trainer, you dont have to do anything special to get either of them, any pet can train both of them.  They are both a must for pvp and pve and every pet should have them.

Ah thanks. It was put in while I was taking a break fom the game and it never occured to me to look at the pet trainer. Duh.

[Kalei]

I have a Hunter alt.  It's only 52 so I have a lot to learn about them, but this site was extremely helpful if you want to take a look.  It has the patch notes for the pets for 2.2.0 and just about everything else you want to know about pets.

http://petopia.brashendeavors.net/index.shtml

[Morat20]

I think I'm going to try this one.

I appreciate all the input.  Thanks much, everyone.

I'd be curious to see what you think, now that you've had time to play with it.

[Xanthippe]

I haven't really played with it much yet, but once I do I'll let you know :)

[Morat20]

I haven't really played with it much yet, but once I do I'll let you know :)

I just broke up my 5/8 GS bonus (goodbye +30 stamina, +40 to all resists for pet) and moved from Endurance training (+10% pet health) to Improved Aspect of the Hawk. My pet is squishier than I'd like now.

Frankly, though, I think it's time to retire my UBRS warg. He's got Furious Howl and Bite (or is it Gore? The long cooldown one) -- both on long cool downs. But the improved Regen and Go For the Throat, I'm not dumping enough focus. I need something like claw -- instant use, no cooldown.

I could pull my cat back out and respec him, but he's only level 60. I have a ravager in the stables, but he's my disposable pet -- I was hoping to get a warp stalker later.

[Xanthippe]

If I recall correctly, there's some really fast cats in Blade's Edge.  Grovestalker Lynx.  Wow, can they interrupt.

I still have my undead pig from EPL for charge that I use in pvp.  I should probably get some kind of cat.

[Merusk]

All cats are the same speed..hell all PETS are the same speed now, and have been since 1.8 or 1.10-ish.

Used right the pigs are a huge pain in the ass, since you can use their stun separate from intimidation.  They're probably a better PvP choice for arenas these days because the healers are the ones with the interrupt-break talents. As soon as you combine them with a Pally running Conc. aura you'll never stop a heal going through just from damage.

I'd switch, but I hate boars; I only arena for fun, and damnit I've had the same cat since level 10, even when people told me I was stupid for not dumping him for King Bang or some other FOTM pet.   :-D

[Morat20]

All cats are the same speed..hell all PETS are the same speed now, and have been since 1.8 or 1.10-ish.

Used right the pigs are a huge pain in the ass, since you can use their stun separate from intimidation.  They're probably a better PvP choice for arenas these days because the healers are the ones with the interrupt-break talents. As soon as you combine them with a Pally running Conc. aura you'll never stop a heal going through just from damage.

I'd switch, but I hate boars; I only arena for fun, and damnit I've had the same cat since level 10, even when people told me I was stupid for not dumping him for King Bang or some other FOTM pet.   :-D

I have my snow leopard from Kharanos myself. :) I play to keep him. I'll probably keep using the UBRS warg until Blizzard finally just makes your pets ding when you do. (Seriously, there is NO POINT to having an actual level grind AND a loyalty grind AND all the fucking feeding I do. Oh, and plus the whole damn 'Doesn't get any quest XP' either.). I can tolerate TWO of the three. Ditch level grinding pets, or ditch loyality griding pets, or ditch making me feed the damn things. One of them needs to go now that all pets in a family are the same.

[Merusk]

That'll happen as soon as someone at Blizz actually plays a hunter as a main.   

I was kinda ticked-off when I discovered that warlock pets ding at the exact instant you do.  No need to even resummon them. Gah.

[Phred]

All cats are the same speed..hell all PETS are the same speed now, and have been since 1.8 or 1.10-ish.

Used right the pigs are a huge pain in the ass, since you can use their stun separate from intimidation.  They're probably a better PvP choice for arenas these days because the healers are the ones with the interrupt-break talents. As soon as you combine them with a Pally running Conc. aura you'll never stop a heal going through just from damage.

Boar stun is only an immobilize so it doesnt interrupt spell casting unfortunately.

[Threash]

That'll happen as soon as someone at Blizz actually plays a hunter as a main.   

I was kinda ticked-off when I discovered that warlock pets ding at the exact instant you do.  No need to even resummon them. Gah.

God, don't get me started on lock pets please, they are so incredibly superiors to ours.

[Morat20]

That'll happen as soon as someone at Blizz actually plays a hunter as a main.   

I was kinda ticked-off when I discovered that warlock pets ding at the exact instant you do.  No need to even resummon them. Gah.

God, don't get me started on lock pets please, they are so incredibly superiors to ours.

My wife got her shiny new felguard a few weeks ago (she had quit playing for a bit, due to work). So we're equal level, me and my BM-specced hunter w/Warg and her and her shiny new felguard. And we're playing, and I'm thinking "Shit, that isn't so bad. Ghost (my pet) is keeping aggro and doing more damage than her felguard.".

Then about two days later she says "Oh, I totally forgot I have to [do warlock shit] to my pets! My felguard's been upgraded now.". It fucking rapes faces. My full BM pet can't keep up, can't keep aggro. And worse yet, if it's a bad place for a felguard she just whistles up her damn felhunter, or Succubus, or VW.

Me? I can name my pet. Go me.

[Driakos]

Me? I can name my pet. Go me.

Yah but you and your pet feel neither pity or remorse?  That's gotta count for something right?

[Morat20]

Me? I can name my pet. Go me.

Yah but you and your pet feel neither pity or remorse?  That's gotta count for something right?

One of her pets fucking eats buffs to heal itself. The other has a goddamn intercept and stun. Another has fucking CC that lasts longer than 3 seconds, and another one fucking buffs the whole party constantly. And they're always her level, goddammit.

Sadly, Blizzard needs another class review for everyone -- just for Hunters alone some of our aspects need to be looked at (Aspect of the Wild? Aspect of the Beast? Cheetah/Pack?), and our pets need another revamp because they've got a lot of old shit that made sense back when pets were different (levelling grind meant people wouldn't all switch to some overpowered rare elite that was instantly their level) but make no sense now. Not to mention "You get three stable slots, but really only two because you need to learn pet tricks".

On the game-wide scheme of things, it's mostly just irritating small stuff -- but some of it's so easily fixable that I can't help but wonder why it's still there. (Updating/revamping Aspects? A lot of balance work, a lot of design. Auto-leveling pets to your level, leaving in the loyalty grind? Fucking cake-walk. Learning pet tricks from fighting them, not training them? Middling amount of work....). 

[Xanthippe]

I have a 70 hunter, 70 lock, 65 priest.  My lock is and has always been affliction specced.  My hunter is now BM spec.  Even so, my warlock pets are so much better than my hunter pets.  It's no contest.

I try to play my hunter and keep going back to my lock (or priest, or babyshaman or babywarrior).  I am not the jump-around-FPS-PWNUNOOB type of player that many are, it's not my playstyle.  I haven't had the reflexes of a 20 year old in 30 years.  (I think that's partly why I abandoned my first toon, a rogue at 53.)

Hunter does need a look.

[Driakos]

On the game-wide scheme of things, it's mostly just irritating small stuff -- but some of it's so easily fixable that I can't help but wonder why it's still there. (Updating/revamping Aspects? A lot of balance work, a lot of design. Auto-leveling pets to your level, leaving in the loyalty grind? Fucking cake-walk. Learning pet tricks from fighting them, not training them? Middling amount of work....). 

I just think the description of The Beast Within and Bestial Wrath is hilarious.

What kind of game advantage does immunity to Pity and Remorse give?  Are there debuffs Pity and Remorse?  Well, if there are, lucky you, you and your pet feel neither.

Actually it is kind of overpowered.  My demon pets are always crying and regretting.