Warlock pvp

[Xanthippe]

After finally getting my 'lock to 70, I'm trying to find my IWIN button in the BGs.  I'm learning slowwwwwwwwwly how to play, what I can and can't do.  I need help!

Anyway, my lock is named Merrilock and I'm on Korgath, if you want to look me up on the Armory and critique my spec.  My gear is the best I can do for the time being - waiting for my flaky friend to get out of Mag/stop farming long enough to give me enchants.  I know I need more stamina (boy, do I know it).

I've always been specced Affliction, and I like it quite a bit.  (My main is a 70 hunter who has been both BM and MM, and prefers MM).  I don't have the foggiest how to play Demon-spec, but figure it's probably somewhat similar to BM hunter, which I don't care for.

I got rolled by a druid yesterday - totally rolled.  Somehow I was stunned the entire fight and couldn't move or do a thing (no, I don't have the nifty pvp trinket yet).

Last week, I went 0 and 16 in AV.  I felt like a 55 in old 60 AV, it was that bad.  Partly having only 6k hps and lousy leveling gear (but I looked hot!) and partly a string of bad luck in AVs.  This week, doing better, won more than lost, learning how to defend towers (something my hunter can't do).

[lesion]

affliction? most of my experience involves daggers and plunging them into spines, but I would personally DoT up random non-healers, put seed of corruption/unstable affliction on and then run away giggling (at a quick pace).

I guess it would be more effective to turn key members of huddle-ups into living bombs though

[Zetor]

Yeah, lock pvp has its ups and downs. I've been playing a 'lock as my main since beta, and I still feel helpless against certain classes/races. (for reference, my lock's armory is here, probably wearing farming or raiding gear)


Affliction is a very strong pvp spec and your build is pretty good, though I'd change a few things:
- Improved Curse of Weakness isn't really useful IMO... it's ok in pve since it's stronger than demoralizing shout if the warrior/druid didn't pick up the talent that improves it. CoW -is- used in pvp occasionally to make warriors hurt less, but that's min-maxing arena stuff, and you don't need the improved version for that.
- If you don't raid, 2 points in suppression are enough for pvp and normal instance mobs. 5 points is good if you don't have maxed +hit gear for raids.
- It's worth it to pick up one point in Shadow Embrace, it adds an extra affliction effect that has to be dispelled in pvp, and makes your drains stronger in pvp and pve.
- Demonic Intellect is nice, but overall you have infinite mana with dark pact, drains and lifetap anyway.

This way you save 7 points... I'd suggest either skimping on either Improved Healthstone, Improved Curse of Agony or Improved Lifetap [depending on preference] and dump these 9 points into destruction, finishing up Improved SBolt, Bane [it's a HUGE dps increaser] and Shadowburn [good pvp finisher]. Even as affliction, sometimes you'll have to nuke. In pvp if you get the jump on someone, a shadowbolt->immolate->UA opener will probably go uninterrupted, and then you can follow up with instant dots and kiting.

You are correct about Demo -- I messed around with it a while ago and it plays like a BM hunter with dots, yawn. You can also go for a purely pvp spec like 24/37 (used by a lot of arena warlocks), but I find deep affliction more fun and useful. Destruction is more like a mage with crazy burst damage and honestly not that good unless nobody is attacking you and/or you have a personal healer.


About your gear: It isn't THAT bad, but yeah, you could use a few upgrades. :p I'd suggest "of the Sorcerer" pieces, "of Shadow Wrath" pieces (don't go overboard on these, just one or two) and maybe straight "of the Eagle". Stamina is extremely important, intellect can be all but ignored (most pieces will have int anyway), and +damage, especially +shadow damage is the best stat you can get. For pvp, you'll want about 8-9k hitpoints to start, and possibly resilience (pvp gear has loads of sta and resil too, so it'll come with time). There are a few quest drops that are good.. there's the cenarion caster ring that has 24 stam, and probably quite a few others, but I'm drawing a blank atm. Same with instance drops. It's generally worth it to have a separate 'pvp set' with lots of stamina; use +stamina gems and +stamina / +hp enchants on those pieces to maximize your survivability.

I'll say upfront that you shouldn't feel bad about losing to warriors, rogues (especially undead rogues), feral druids that outgear you and even long-range kiting hunters. Heck, (undead) frost mages can give locks a run for their money, too. The general idea is to keep your distance, put your dots on whatever is attacking you (UA first while you have range, then curse of agony, corruption, siphon life), use instant howl of terror to get them off you if they're in your face. Definitely use Seed of Corruption on multiple enemies if they're standing close to each other. If they have dispeller(s), Unstable Affliction tends to discourage them from dispelling, but your DOTs will be hard enough to dispel with the contagion talent anyway.
The affliction warlock's biggest weakness is getting jumped -- you have your instant HoT, deathcoil, fear, curse of exhaustion and (maybe) succubus seduce to deal with that. None of these are reliable in the slightest (pvp trinket, will of the forsaken, maybe fear ward), but they should buy you some time at least.

This is very very basic, I can go into detail on 'lock tactics vs. different classes/builds if you want, though.


Edit: wow, I fail at formatting.


-- Z.

[Xanthippe]

This is very very basic, I can go into detail on 'lock tactics vs. different classes/builds if you want, though.

Please do! 

Thanks so much for the write-up.  It's really helpful.  I love to pvp even though I'm not that good at it.

[AngryGumball]

AV the place where everyone attacks everyone in random order in confined chokeholds of battle?

Not simply like one on one battle in world pvp normal zones where you can move about and negociate where you want to fight people?

Any BG any Clothie will drop fast.

Was that a Feral Druid who dropped you rather quickly? in Mountain Lion, or Panther Form?

[Arrrgh]

You really want a trinket. The cheap one is a 5 minute refresh and the expensive one is a two minute refresh so the expensive one is well worth it.

Any place you can stick a gem you want to stick in a solid star of elune, blue 12 STA gem. Don't worry about what color the socket is, you just lose the little socket bonus.

A hybrid build with soul link might help until you build up your gear.

http://www.wowhead.com/?talent=Nq0rmRfzoZbxczIiz0es

[Zetor]

Keep in mind that I'm no pvp guru, and lately I've been neglecting pvp on my 'lock [my guild needs my pally for arena, go fig']. Most of these matchups depend on one particular pet -- I prefer to pvp with a felhunter, it's the most useful pet overall [it suffers against hunters and warriors, but is useful against other stuff]. Definitely get a PVP trinket, it's pretty much a necessity against druids / rogues, and darn helpful against all other classes too ['cept shaman].


Warriors: Your dots and curses outrange their charge.
Ghetto kiting: If you spot them first, put curse of exhaustion on them, apply corruption/siphonlife and then just kite for a guaranteed [and slow] win, just stay at max range reapplying curse of exhaustion. If they try to run, run towards them briefly to stay at the edge of max range. If they ever intercept you, deathcoil, pvp trinket to remove the snare and resume kiting. This takes a looooong time but I've taken down HWL warriors this way while I was in blues at level 60.
Dot and drain: They'll eventually get the jump on you though... in that case, dot them up [instant cast ones first, use amplify magic on curse of agony], use instant howl of terror if they don't have the deathwish debuff (they probably will, though) and drain life. At this point it becomes a gear game... they will probably outdamage the drain. Deathcoil can give a momentary respite, use it when they're low on hitpoints and follow it up with immolate or UA [not shadowbolt, they'll intercept after DC]
Seduce nuke: If you have a succubus out and the warrior isn't undead, you have a good shot, even if they charge you first. Have the succubus seduce them [if they use pvp trinket and go for the succubus, just 'coil them], and hit them with a shadowbolt, then seduce them again + hit them again, and again. After the third time, use UA + the rest of the dots instead of a bolt. After that, proceed with drain life spam.

Rogues: Honestly, you don't stand much of a chance... especially if they're undead [there are non-undead horde rogues?]. The only way to beat them is catching them before they catch you with perception and the felhunter's paranoia buff... then you can slap dots + curse of exhaustion on them and try to kite them around. Instant HOT when they get close... they will probably trinket or wotf, but it'll give you a few seconds of breathing room.
Do NOT use deathcoil or instant HOT when they use cloak of shadows [it looks like priest shadowform and has a distinctive sound effect], count to 4 and then use it. If you can get them low with DOTs [you'll have to re-apply them once after they purge it with cloak of shadows], you might have a shot. Same if you can drain life without them interrupting. Don't even bother trying to cast fear unless it's a non-undead rogue that can't find his kick/gouge/kidneyshot button. Keep your pet on them the entire time. If you have a succubus, same tactics apply as for warriors, seduce when you get kidney shotted so they either have to burn COS or lose precious seconds of stun time.

Priests: If they're not in shadowform, put Curse of Tongues on them right away, fear [if they run at you] and apply dots (Unstable Affliction first, then corruption + siphon life). If they try to heal, counter it with fear [if it's a long heal], deathcoil / instant howl of terror / felhunter spell lock if not. You can even use drain mana on them if they try to play the attrition game [be sure to have at least 2-3 dots up on them while you do so]. Keep your felhunter on them the entire time (keep devouring their buffs, you want shadow protection to go away), shadow ward to absorb their shadow damage spells.
Shadowpriests usually aren't a problem unless you get eighty billion blackout procs. UA+siphon+corruption+drain life. Your green laser is stronger than their blue laser. Use a spellstone after they fully dot you up to clear them all, this really makes them hate you. If you can spell lock mind blast (can be rough, spell-locking 1.5sec casts with my 600 ping is hell), you'll probably beat them.

Druids: Ferals can be nasty, they have insane fear resists in kitty form, especially to HOT since it counts as an aoe spell. If you can get a fear to stick though, you can kite them and slowly burn them down. Bears don't hit particularly hard, but they can stun and try to heal -- use the felhunter to stop the healing. Same if they try to cyclone you. As with rogues, try to mess up their opener. They don't have cloak of shadows, so hitting howl of terror as soon as you're in control again should help. If they resist it, deathcoil and fear.
Restoration druids are painful to fight, have to drain their mana... before BC, you could just keep dispelling their heal over time spells, but if you dispel Lifebloom, you're essentially healing them for free.
Moonkin: Never really had any problems with these, AOE fear the trees [maybe put seed of corruption on one of them for fun], and counterspell a Wrath or a heal while you keep the felhunter on them to slow down their spellcasting.

Mages: With a felhunter, they're fairly easy, especially if they're fire. Generally either save your pvp trinket, the felhunter's spell lock or devour magic to interrupt/dispel polymorph, this'll prevent them from opening on you with long cast spells. Your felhunter is all but immune to their damage, abuse this and have it beat on them.
Fire: If you can catch them with a spell lock while they're casting a fire spell, they're done. Try to not use shadow spells with casting times unless you get the jump; I prefer loading them up with corruption/siphon/agony first, and fear bombing them; if it sticks long enough, toss on an UA and use immolate / searing pain after. The reason for this is, you want them to waste their counterspell on a fire spell -- you don't want to be locked out of shadow spells as affliction. You can deathcoil+fear them too, or use the felhunter spell lock and fear them during the silence, but I generally don't bother with that.
Frost: These mages are tougher. Either banish the elemental or toss a seed of corruption on it + maybe a siphon life / curse of agony. Crit frostbolts hurt a lot, but are fairly long casts, so be sure to counterspell those. Spam devour magic on them to get rid of the ice barrier. They will use iceblock at one point and shed all your dots/fear/deathcoil -- get some distance / bandage / dark pact, and prepare to kill them again, same tactic as fire mages.
Arcane: These mages can kill you, but are even squishier than fire mages. Deathcoil+fear or spelllock+fear them after they do the big arcane power animation, and devour magic to dispel it from them. After that, it's the same as a fire mage fight, only they will not have that disorienting dragon's breath thing.

Paladins: These guys are pretty easy. Against an affliction warlock, they really don't have much of a chance unless they outgear you. Put Curse of Tongues on them if they have a shield equipped, amplified Curse of Agony if they use a two-hander. Both Repentance and Hammer of Justice are dispellable by your felhunter.
They MIGHT try to kill your felhunter first, in that case fear them and have it devour something off them to heal it. Otherwise they'll try to close in melee range, so use instant HOT, load them up with DOTs [unstable affliction first]. If they have a 2-hander, use curse of exhaustion -- they can use blessing of freedom to catch up, but I generally have enough range at that point to nuke or fear them again. If they keep healing, interrupt a long heal [holy light] with the felhunter, this'll basically shut them down for 8 seconds (they won't even be able to bubble). If they bubble, run far away, bandage/dark pact, and prepare to fight them again, this time with them having less mana and no bubble.
Their only chance of killing you is using the bubble offensively (usually at the start) and beating down with all the burst abilities they have. A healthstone should carry you through, and afterwards just use HOT to send them running and dot+drain life. If they trinket out of the fear, fear them again.

Shaman: They have no good counter to instant HOT, abuse this. You can make macros to '/target tremor totem' and '/target grounding totem' and send your pet to kill them. After they're feared, load them up with dots and kill. If they have a funky earth shield, drain mana, otherwise drain life. However, shammies with a 2-hander can tear you up if they get lucky. The imp works well here too, it'll automatically kill grounding totems if you set it to attack the shammy -- watch out though, imps are squishy.

Hunters: You probably know more about hunters than I do... I generally try to run up to them mounted and dismount + HOT in their face. Once feared, they're fairly easy, just keep them close. Felhunter can dispel freezing trap, too. Snakes are annoying. :P

Other Warlocks: Mirror match.. not much to say. Affliction has a good shot against felguard warlocks [dot up the felguard too!!], but will get rocked by 24/37-esque builds (Arrgh posted a good example, though I'd take 1 point in shadow embrace and max out fel concentration, taking points from empowered corruption, that's personal preference though) and destruction warlocks. Against other affliction warlocks it's all about who resists what. You can use a spellstone to get rid of DOTs, but watch out for UA.


Edit: Left out the most important part... deep affliction is probably the best 'offensive' group pvp warlock build. It is fairly squishy when compared to 24/37 or felguard (heck, even destruction), but UA is one of the best debuffs you can have in a controlled pvp setting (premade BG groups, arenas) since it disallows enemy healers from dispelling ANY magical debuffs on the afflicted targets.



Hope this helps (*awaits the avalanche of 'zomfg l2warlock noob!111' posts from the local pvp gods*)


-- Z.

[caladein]

As a minor aside...

In the next major content patch, the combat rating, resilience, will also reduce the damage dealt by damage over time (DoT) effects. As it currently stands, each new tier of equipment adds to the amount of damage DoT abilities have, yet that damage is not mitigated through combat ratings found on typical equipment. This change will help ensure that DoT effects do not scale too well compared to other damage mechanics.

The amount of damage reduced will be equal to the critical chance reduction effect that resilience grants.

[ajax34i]

Ah, so this is what the priests were complaining about on their forum yesterday.  Couldn't figure out what the "nerf" they kept mentioning was.

[Zetor]

Honestly? This isn't much of a nerf. I'm far too lazy to do the math, but in very heavy resilience gear you reduce crit chance by 10%. Reducing dot damage by 10% isn't going to shake the foundations of WOW pvp.

However, you won't be able to do gear swaps anymore. This is a very strong change favoring shadowpriests and warlocks in smaller brackets.


-- Z.

[caladein]

As a guideline, every 100 points of Resilience will reduce DoT damage by 2.5%. Most people in heavy PvP gear should see around 8-10%, with top-flight teams seeing a bit over that.

[Xanthippe]

Excellent guide, thanks!

I've added some stam so I'm up around 9k or something (got armor enchanted woohoo), added some resiliance (not enough) and am trying out the different strategies.  I still die more than I get killing blows on, but I am more successful and even took out a dumb rogue yesterday who got the jump on me. 

Got exalted in AV, but still neutral with WSG and AB.  I hate pug WSG alliance side.  I need to get some ribbons though.

[lesion]

last night, for the first time since my (BE) rogue hit 70, I got rocked by a warlock in a duel.

he was destruction spec with Backlash and a succubus. every silence and interrupt I threw at him was mostly useless due to that damn talent giving him instant 3k shadowbolts every 8 seconds. I have around 9k health unbuffed and he has 11k, and in between death coil, fear and seduces it was an uphill battle with shoes made of blubber. on top of this he was an Orc.

we dueled twice and the farthest I could get him down both times was to around 2k. affliction locks made me soft! boo-urns.

[Morat20]

This is what I remember about Warlocks from my lvl 60 Hunter, pre-TBC.

1) See Warlock.
2) Sic pet on Warlock.
3) Shoot Warlock.
4) Get feared.
5) Get exactly one million DoTs.
6) Hit Bestial Wrath/The Beast Within.
7) Kill Warlock.
8 ) Die from DoTs.
9) Rez with dead pet (or pet with 4 DoTs on it who then dies) and curse blizzard's goddamn inability to fix that bug. (Is it fixed yet?)

[Morfiend]

Coming from a Rogue, this is how you beat us.

If you get the jump, do it like Zet said. If we get the jump on you, mash ether Deathcoil or Instant howl of terror. As soon as you get a few feet, start casting fear, we will probably WotF out of the first fear, so you want the next one to land right as we break the first one. If we dont break the first one, just dot dot dot, fear, shadowbolt, fear, shadowbolt fear, dot dot dot.

The main thing that I hate about locks, and the ones that can kill me are the ones who constantly use fear.

[Zetor]

The problem when fearing rogues is diminishing returns. With WOTF and a trinket, they will break two fears instantly [the first one has a 5-sec immunity attached]... the third one will last only 2.5 seconds at best after next patch's CC nerf. Considering you took at least 4.5 seconds to cast the three fears, that's not really a win. :P Also, this assumes that the rogue didn't get in range or didn't interrupt any of the casts with deadly throw etc.
The only way I can see the chain fear strategy working is if you have a healer or are soul link with a truckload of stam/resil, in which case you can just wait 15 seconds (throwing dots, nukes etc) and after the diminishing returns timer resets, fear the bugger for the full duration [with both WOTF and the trinket gone]. I'm assuming you're solo pvping most of the time as affliction, so neither of those apply.

Edit: do NOT mash DC or HOT while you're stunned... wait a half-second after the stun breaks, the rogue might pop WOTF or cloak of shadows at that point for an extra immunity and your spell will go to waste. Only use the spell after that one ends, otherwise you'll just waste it.
Honestly, your best bet at getting a rogue off you is either a succubus seduce [they'll break it, but it wastes precious stun time], or a felguard intercept.


-- Z.

[cmlancas]

Are locks really so good now that they run over shadowpriests? While I was a dwarf dueling warlocks at 60 pre-tbc, a few fears and manaburns mixed with the blue ray was about all she wrote.

What has changed since then?

[Zetor]

I can't remember the last time I lost to a spriest in a 'fair' 1v1 [ie similar gear level and him not getting the jump on me while I was fighting mobs with the wrong pet out]. There are a few things that have changed, swinging this matchup in the (affliction)lock's favor:

- instant aoe fear is pretty huge, same as your psychic scream. Even if you have fearward, you can just get feared again immediately afterwards.. ditto with WOTF. Deathcoil (also 'skillcoil' or 'happycoil') used late in the fight will give the warlock enough time to wind up a shadowbolt and follow up with a shadowburn, you will probably die to that combo.
- Unstable Affliction is just plain nasty, you won't be able to dispel any dots off yourself without dying.
- New warlock talent 'soul siphon' [affliction] increases the throughput of their drains significantly, depending on how many DOTs they have on you. You can't dispel these dots without hitting UA unless you're really good at russian roulette. :P
- Curse of Tongues slows down mind flay now, as it does all other channeled spells.
- The warlock spellstone goes into the wand slot (used to be an offhand consumable item and not many people used it) and removes silence+all other dots/effects (shadow weaving!) you apply to the warlock immediately once during the fight.
- New DOT coefficients (though already-nerfed) will make the warlock dots *hurt* if they have enough spell damage. Yeah, your dots will hurt too, but after all of them get removed, you'll be too far behind in the damage race.

All in all, you'll be hard pressed to out-melt an affliction warlock, and he can remove your dots while you can't do anything about the ones he puts on you. The warlock's green laser is stronger than the shadowpriest's blue laser. YMMV.


Generally you won't kill a lock with mana burn unless you're holy/disc specced and outgear the lock... imo. If he doesn't have a spellstone/felhunter, you can win by dotting him up, dispelling his felarmor/shadowward, and busting out some mind blasts, mind flay while you wait for the cooldown and finish him off with a SWD.


-- Z.

[Fordel]

The real big change to locks is Fel Armor and the Imp Life Drain.


With most of his DoTs up, a Locks Life Drain is going to be doing nearly as much damage as your flay, except his channeled spell is also healing him for the same amount. Before the changes, as a druid, I used to just be able to outlast a lock through healing. Now, I can get Out DPS'd *AND* Out Healed, at the same damn time.


My only chance at beating a lock these days is to keep him rooted and/or at max range. Fear is only 20 yards or so and keeping the fight moving is key for me. On the run the lock only has 2-3 DoTs, one of which I can dispel and the others I can heal through with Rejuv+LifeBloom, so I just keep my own pair of DoTs on him and slowly (and I do mean slowly) whittle him down (Goes faster if my Tree Pets are up). Trying to get into any kind of cast fight with a lock is suicide, A DoT pile + a Life/Mana Drain means my goose is cooked, and that isn't even accounting for that stupid mana dog pet. I hate that thing so much, probably nothing in game causes me as much grief as that stupid mana dog.

[cmlancas]

I can't remember the last time I lost to a spriest in a 'fair' 1v1 [ie similar gear level and him not getting the jump on me while I was fighting mobs with the wrong pet out]. There are a few things that have changed, swinging this matchup in the (affliction)lock's favor:

- instant aoe fear is pretty huge, same as your psychic scream. Even if you have fearward, you can just get feared again immediately afterwards.. ditto with WOTF. Deathcoil (also 'skillcoil' or 'happycoil') used late in the fight will give the warlock enough time to wind up a shadowbolt and follow up with a shadowburn, you will probably die to that combo.
- Unstable Affliction is just plain nasty, you won't be able to dispel any dots off yourself without dying.
- New warlock talent 'soul siphon' [affliction] increases the throughput of their drains significantly, depending on how many DOTs they have on you. You can't dispel these dots without hitting UA unless you're really good at russian roulette. :P
- Curse of Tongues slows down mind flay now, as it does all other channeled spells.
- The warlock spellstone goes into the wand slot (used to be an offhand consumable item and not many people used it) and removes silence+all other dots/effects (shadow weaving!) you apply to the warlock immediately once during the fight.
- New DOT coefficients (though already-nerfed) will make the warlock dots *hurt* if they have enough spell damage. Yeah, your dots will hurt too, but after all of them get removed, you'll be too far behind in the damage race.

All in all, you'll be hard pressed to out-melt an affliction warlock, and he can remove your dots while you can't do anything about the ones he puts on you. The warlock's green laser is stronger than the shadowpriest's blue laser. YMMV.


Generally you won't kill a lock with mana burn unless you're holy/disc specced and outgear the lock... imo. If he doesn't have a spellstone/felhunter, you can win by dotting him up, dispelling his felarmor/shadowward, and busting out some mind blasts, mind flay while you wait for the cooldown and finish him off with a SWD.


-- Z.

I found that I defeated Warlocks by out-fearing their pets and nailing a well-timed silence and following up with manaburns. I tried to fight warlocks like I did a druid or a paladin, and that is through outlasting them. If I can jack your mana enough (and most PVP locks I saw around 60 in my day were wearing a ton of +sta) to where you have to consume your hitpoints to stay with me manawise, I think I can win. Also, don't I have an instant dispel magic that jacks your buffs? And as a third question, don't you have to fear me three times before you'll get one to stick? I.E. if I fear ward, you fear me, I re-fear ward, you fear me, I still have a trinket. Also remember that in a duel with a SP, you're basically one on one without a pet most of the fight.

Finally, did they change blackout? it used to only be on spell damage, so that when my dot hit, it was a percent to stun. I usually got at least one blackout in a duel, and if I followed that up with a silence, generally I could burn you into death.

Maybe locks really are the uber-pvpers now. My boss at work plays a lock on darkspear and says he'd own me, so I really want to know how true it is. Am I looking at a coinflip where the lock is depending on a big shadowbolt and burn? Or am I really just dead in the water?

[Fordel]

Unless you can dish out 10-12k damage in the 4-6 seconds a silence + blackout stun gives you, no, you probably aren't going to be able to burst a lock down.


I think your underestimating just how much damage Lock DoT's will do now. If a Lock gets his full stack onto you, you will die before the DoT's run out if you don't get healing and dispelling (and dispelling might kill you or whoever is trying to clean you up thanks to UA) and this isn't including any nuking or draining or fearing the lock might be doing. Also, eight seconds of fear every 26-30 seconds isn't going to do much to stop the mana dog from breaking your balls.


Locks really are the kings of 1v1 post TBC, the only thing that really gives them pause are stun locking rogues with Cloak of Shadows up, and even then it's 50/50. Either that or a MS warrior with a full rage bar might stand a chance.


There is a reason why more then half of the top 2v2 Arena teams are Lock + Random Healer.

[Zetor]

I found that I defeated Warlocks by out-fearing their pets and nailing a well-timed silence and following up with manaburns. I tried to fight warlocks like I did a druid or a paladin, and that is through outlasting them. If I can jack your mana enough (and most PVP locks I saw around 60 in my day were wearing a ton of +sta) to where you have to consume your hitpoints to stay with me manawise, I think I can win. Also, don't I have an instant dispel magic that jacks your buffs? And as a third question, don't you have to fear me three times before you'll get one to stick? I.E. if I fear ward, you fear me, I re-fear ward, you fear me, I still have a trinket. Also remember that in a duel with a SP, you're basically one on one without a pet most of the fight.

Finally, did they change blackout? it used to only be on spell damage, so that when my dot hit, it was a percent to stun. I usually got at least one blackout in a duel, and if I followed that up with a silence, generally I could burn you into death.

Maybe locks really are the uber-pvpers now. My boss at work plays a lock on darkspear and says he'd own me, so I really want to know how true it is. Am I looking at a coinflip where the lock is depending on a big shadowbolt and burn? Or am I really just dead in the water?

You are severely underestimating dot damage. Affliction warlocks get insane boosts to their dots and drains now... if you're out of shadowform [which you'd have to be for reapplying fearward], you are not going to be able to outdamage them even if the warlock doesn't have a felpuppy or a spellstone. And once a fear does get through, it's going to last the full duration since fearward doesn't induce diminishing returns.

I typically use my spellstone to break the silence [and dump all the DOTs], so it's not a huge inconvenience for me. And mana drains do nothing against an affliction lock, they'll just drain mana from their pet (about 1.4k mana per 'dark pact' with my stats) and never have to lifetap. I've fought mana burners, they just fall behind in the damage race way too fast (unless they massively stack shadow resist, but that's neither here or there). Plus the warlock mana drain is MORE powerful than even talented priest mana burn if the 'lock has the "soul siphon" talent and 3-4 dots ticking on the priest.

You won't be able to outlast an affliction lock as a priest... a demo or destro lock *maybe*, if you're holy with imp mana burn. As shadow, your only chance is aggressively burning them down and getting lucky with blackout procs. Once they get a full set of dots on you and start draining, it's over.

-- Z.

[caladein]

I can agree with everyone that a Shadow Priest can't out drain-tank an Affliction Warlock, it's just not going to happen. There are a few keys to success:

• If he actually Drain Life spams you without Shadowbolting occasionally, he's a moron.
• You should have Improved Mana Burn in any Priest build if you want to PvP. Imp Mana Burn will burn through his combined health/mana faster then Drain Mana will, exploit that.
• Wait on your Silence/Fear until UA is about to go off, then proceed to dispel all his DoTs. If he doesn't cast UA off the bat, you will be able to dispel his DoTs faster then he can apply them.
• Shadowform doesn't provide protection against spells, so don't hesitate to leave it early.
• Probably the most important thing: with the exception of Siphon Life, he needs to actively maintain the drain-tank and is giving up damage to do so. You on the other hand do damage and tank at the same time.

You basically have to keep forcing him to re-enter the set-up phase and most importantly, you have to play defensively. You can't burst anyone down really, but again: your strengths are: 1) passive tank, 2) better mana deprivation, 3) heals and dispels.

If he's using an Imp in Phase Shift, then you don't have to worry about Spell Lock and just have to out last him. With the Felhunter it's a bit trickier and you have to be very careful to keep your DoTs and health up, but again, you have the advantage of healing when Shadow is locked out. Also, don't be afraid to MC him if he gets dangerously low and let the DoTs tick out + SW: Death.

[Zetor]

Well, nuking goes without question, though I typically wait with that until the priest is getting on the defensive... I've pvp'd a bit with my fully pve spec/gear (except for the trinket) affliction lock this weekend and didn't have any problems melting spriests (in fact, I ended up specifically gunning for them in battlegrounds). Sometimes I'd go with amplified Curse of Agony instead of Tongues even and forego nuking completely in favor of draining, and still come out ahead. (I imagine them mana burning wouldn't have worked any better, plus most of the spriests I fought were pve spec, ie not enough points in discipline for IMB)
Now of course all those epiced out warriors/rogues pwned me in about 4 seconds, but that comes with the territory.

However, if you're not shadow spec (ie. discipline smitepewpew or 28/33 or 23/38), I can see the mana burn strategy working as long as you can keep yourself up and have decent regen+damage gear.

Also note that MC is a long cast, might be constantly interrupted by the felhunter (or spelllocked completely). And if it DOES go off, it's trinketable, devourable with the felhunter (it's a "magic" buff), spell-lock-able and WOTFable (if you're alliance, about 90% of all warlocks you face will be undead). I actually had a spriest try to do the dotMC thing on me once, I spell locked when the 6 second (thx curse of tongues + felhunter autoattacks) cast was about to finish, and he just spent 12 seconds essentially doing nothing while his HP was steadily approaching 0.


-- Z.