War

[Gets]

Historically, Bob has always handled high lag conditions far better than opponents

[Pezzle]

Supercap K/D ratio backbone?

[Endie]

Leaving the cost aside, which, while not immaterial, is pretty manageable for whoever owns Delve, there are a few reasons this was significant.

As I said last night, Bob traditionally dealt with lag very well.  That was apparently not the case here: I honestly thought that Bob would chew through the NC sub cap and conventional cap fleets while the North focussed on Shrike and any tackled motherships, and that the final losses would be something like 15-20 NC caps minimum.  In fact, the NC seem to have swept aside the Bob subcaps.  I know a couple of the new Bob (not GBC) pilots from Providence days, and I'm not surprised that some of the class-of-2008 padding are proving fragile: they were awful, barely featured on our killboards, and only got in because they were part of specific language communities with folks on the inside.

More importantly, Bob were forced into a logoffski.  After years of criticising others for using this, particularly RA, the cognitive dissonance must be jarring. And unlike the fight a few weeks ago where Bob massacred the northern dread fleet, this wasn't an experimental node, and impressively it managed to stay up throughout, so there will be no rollbacks and no reimbursements.  Ctrl-Qing to save a fleet is no biggie: I've ctrl-Qed to save my ship more than once.  But this goes against a long history of propaganda.

Third, it comes after the north had managed to achieve some decent results against Bob recently.  I well remember what the morale effect on Shrike's last titan-on-a-gate fuckup was on us: while this one won't change the direction of the campaign as dramatically as that, everyone knows that Eve alliance warfare is a game of morale, and the north just got another tidy boost to that.

Fourth, Bob pilots on are saying that they were heavily outnumbered, at about 50 or so caps.  Sure: that means that they were always going to get hammered, but if that really is their prime-time turnout at the weekend then what happened to "500 caps lawl Max Damage steamroller crush"?  If they are still like what they were when fighting us then Bob will probably do a high-pressure call-up on pilots to make sure that they are seen to absolutely steamroller a system this weekend.

PS On the number of kills, although there are 8 capitals and supercapitals on Bob's board, theAdj (PL FC) reckons that 15 hostile capitals before they managed to ctrl-Q out is a more likely total.

[Viin]

Are there still issues with killmails not being generated? I know some of the lag stuff has been made better, but last big fight we were in with these changes caused all kinds of wonkiness with killmails.

[Phildo]

I've seen a titan an MOM killmail from that fight now that lists every single person on it as a Revelation that did 1 million damage.

[Endie]

I've seen a titan an MOM killmail from that fight now that lists every single person on it as a Revelation that did 1 million damage.

Yep, Bob posted those on their board, perhaps because they wanted to obfuscate fittings, perhaps to stop friendly fire elements skewing stats, or more likely because they never got a lossmail for them in the first place.

[JoeTF]

Both killmails never generated, so we posted replacement ones. Same thing as with lord2evil I think.

Also on the subject, apparently some RKK dude managed to loot Shrike's wreck before all NC tacklers got the chance to do so. the legend of RKK lootwhoring lives on ^_^

[Endie]

Both killmails never generated, so we posted replacement ones. Same thing as with lord2evil I think.

Also on the subject, apparently some RKK dude managed to loot Shrike's wreck before all NC tacklers got the chance to do so. the legend of RKK lootwhoring lives on ^_^

It's more impressive that he managed to get to it before Appleboy.

Anyway, looks like another big NC vs BoB capfight is going on right now, from what theAdj is telling us.  Gamesguy (Bob) lost his mothership to a bump after the POS password was compromised.  Now both sides are pounding each other pretty hard, from the look of the killboards.

[Endie]

Came here this morning hoping for battle report, was disappointed 

On the upside, from the reports from the PL guys on our boards, and a few goons that scraped into the system to play at being vultures, that seems to have been just about the best cap fight ever: "zero lag with 600 in local :swoon:" being a general comment.  StacklessIO really does seem, for now, to be delivering.

The current totals that I can add up are 71 Bob and allied capitals and a mothership dead, and only 42 NC capitals dead (these numbers will change).  The north got the massive loot from this fight, too, which is worth quite a few replacement capitals.  This, of course, adds onto the titan, mothership and ten or so GBC capitals that died a couple of nights ago.  I'm not sure that this is the Max Damage that Molle had in mind vOv

What seems to have happened is that the North found some carriers outside of shields and killed them, together with a dread that seems to have been probed down.  Then, having got hold of a Bob pos PW, they bumped out a mothership and killed it.  At this point, Bob's main capfleet showed up and a classic meeting engagement occured, with more and more people pouring in from each side.

You need a substance called "strontium clathrates" to enter siege mode, which makes you tougher and allows you to do more damage.  The fight went on for so long that Northern dreads were actually looting this off wrecks to keep going, as the original combatants ran out.  Pandemic Legion actually turned up, chewed threw their stront, left and got more then came back again to find the fight still raging.

Eventually, with their support fleet wiped out once more, it was clear that Bob had lost heavily, and were probably going to suffer a wipe, so they slowboated into the relative "safety" of their POS shields, losing more ships as they did so.  I dunno if the north are going to camp that POS, though, as I understand that it exits reinforced mode (becoming destroyable) later today.

The BoB posts i have seen are cirtually all about the material losses: "we have spares we'll all be in new dreads in 2-3 days" sort of thing.  Of course, that's not the point.  As they discovered in 46DP, Eve is about morale and momentum.  Bob relied on assembling a massive, apparently invincible blob of capitals and supercapitals.  Losing fights destroys that illusion.  Forty percent of the GBC losses seem to have been allied caps: will they be as keen to come along now that a month of fairly good northern performances have been capped by two major northern victories?

On the flipside, will the northern cap pilots keep showing up: can they sustain victories like this?  The losses are more evenly spread (I think Morsus mihi, with 24 losses, bore the heaviest blow), but will their pilots keep risking their e-peens?

Finally, Bob always relied (whether intentionally or not) on system lag and node crashes to extract them from situations where they got pinned down by all the people who disliked them: that's how I missed out on my first titan kill on Shrike in Querious.  Now, CCP seem to have finally come up with some netcode that lets the good times keep rolling.

tl;dr - Noice

[Slayerik]

I've earned a lot of respect for MM over the years fighting in the North. There is a stretch in Tribute that we call 'The Gauntlet' during our roams, that is about a coin flip if you are going to making it out alive. If I were to want to join the NC, MM's Shiva would be the corp I would look into.

[JoeTF]

Edit:



Fuck.

[Sparky]

Shrike down yet again.  A PL dude bumped him out of his POS and NC + PL  jumped in and dropped him in a couple of short minutes.  Maddeningly I didn't load in time to get on the killmail - that's my first mothership and now titan killmails thwarted by the lag gods this week.  But fear not I'm sure Shrike is already fitting up a "spare" so maybe I'll get another shot.

[Miasma]

In another titan?

[Sparky]

Yup, another titan.

[Comstar]

Wait, Shrike lost a THIRD Titan!?

BoB has what, 15 of them?

[Phildo]

In lowsec

[NiX]

Who is Shrike?

[Sparky]

Sir Molle's titan alt.  Sir Molle is the leader of BoB.

[Phildo]

Haha, an image search for Sir Molle on google brings up Endie's avatar on page 2 or 3.

[Endie]

To lose one titan may be considered unfortunate. To lose two can only be construed as carelessness.

Oscar never told us what to say of someone bad enough to lose three.

~Max Damage

Edit:

Haha, an image search for Sir Molle on google brings up Endie's avatar on page 2 or 3.

An image search for "shrike dead goonfleet" gives my site on hit three.

[Nerf]

I felt pretty stupid for losing a 300mil vaga to a MM gate camp awhile back.
I feel much better now.

[JoeTF]

Well, he still uses it them is more than anyone else in the game:P

Kill of the week: http://www.killboard.net/details/285743/

I will wait with congratulating whoever managed to kill it after I will actually learn how they did it, right now I only know what sorry mistakes were made on our side* and that knowledge makes me a sad panda.



*before you go with standard omg Molle sucks yabbering, let me tell you - it actually wasn't his fuckup per se.

[Simond]

Well, he still loses it them is more than anyone else in the game:P

[Endie]

From a look at a few killboards right now:

GBC capitals killed:

Alia Ursul
BlackPhantom
Callistus
Cassius prime
Cidem arap
Deathsoul
Enjoi
Geoff W
Ghost Reaper
Kahooters
Kamel
Keturah
King Balthazar
King Dave
Klezz
Lagiur Gonory
Logsden
Lucentia
Morden Lox
Myal Terego
Norl
Ponty
Quisten
SavagePig
Scobichevskaya
Silvero
Simon 955
Slip66
Spikey
The Wizz117
Zaibatsu Gaijin

NC+PL losses so far posted:

Ander
Crudamus
Gaia Jane

For those whol like the whole stats thing, you gotta love the Razor KB K/D ratio for caps against Bob this week:

Class  -  Killed - Lost

Carriers  15       0
Dreads   70     15
Titans     2       0

Edit: dat list just keeps on growin'

[Sparky]

Veeeeery early days but I'd estimate NC+PL lost about 10 caps, GBC maybe 30-50 including the titan.  It was extremely one sided.  The lag was old school stupidity, very frustrating to fight through.

[Endie]

Well, he still uses it them is more than anyone else in the game:P

Kill of the week: http://www.killboard.net/details/285743/

I will wait with congratulating whoever managed to kill it after I will actually learn how they did it, right now I only know what sorry mistakes were made on our side* and that knowledge makes me a sad panda.

*before you go with standard omg Molle sucks yabbering, let me tell you - it actually wasn't his fuckup per se.

TheAdj has said publically that he bumped and tackled Molle with nanophoons, then lit up a cyno for the dreads who were waiting in two separate places.  Yet again,

And while you can say that Molle isn't dumb, just unlucky to lose three titans, the fact is that he lost the first DDing on a gate (vs ten frigates), he lost the second DDing on a gate, he lost the third having allowed the password for his staging POS to be handed out days after losing supercaps the same way (so knowing that he has spy issues) , and let's not forget that he would have lost a fourth in Querious but for the node crashing... yes, you guessed it, DDing on a gate.

There comes a point where "mad props for using it" becomes "ffs OK I'll give you my titan but please don't keep trying to epeen wave by DDing on gates"

Also, for all the "we have a new titan for Molle" bollocks that one was nicked off Cflux.  I bet plenty of Bob titan pilots are becoming impossible to reach on MSN even as we speak...

Veeeeery early days but I'd estimate NC+PL lost about 10 caps, GBC maybe 30-50 including the titan.  It was extremely one sided.  The lag was old school stupidity, very frustrating to fight through.

The fact is that that's three capfights in a row that Bob has lost hard, with different levels of lag in each.  And with 1050 in local, lag was always going to be a bit tricky this time 

[Calantus]

To lose one titan may be considered unfortunate. To lose two can only be construed as carelessness.

Oscar never told us what to say of someone bad enough to lose three.

~Max Damage

Edit:

Haha, an image search for Sir Molle on google brings up Endie's avatar on page 2 or 3.

An image search for "shrike dead goonfleet" gives my site on hit three.

Now I expect an update on how many referrals you have with the search "shrike dead goonfleet".

[VickeVire]

I was in Obe in a falcon. About 700 people in local when we arrived, near 1k when I logged.
Loading grids and warping/traveling around was 'ok' but module lag was horrid. I cloaked early on coming in system. Sure, I was perma-invisable but I wasn't able to do shit ether. After waiting about 45-50 min to decloak I gave up.

[Simond]

Interesting times.

[Endie]

Something interesting is going on again in M-O at the moment.  Watching the killboards, a large northern force and a substantial GBC force are fighting it out there.  I'm intrigued because, apart from the fact that the GBC are currently losing, they've also yet to deploy their capfleet from what I can see (which, since the north does have caps deployed, isn't going to help them in the fight).  Have to wonder if some much-needed momentum-regaining hotdrop is on the cards...

Edit: Resorting to the infamous SHC, Lowa says: "I honestly have no idea on numbers, who is winning or what the hell this is all good for but I dont really care either, this is proper fleet fighting, no stupid capital mashups and DD obliterating stupidities."

This might be good news.  Kremlinwatchers will tend to translate this as "The GBC lost substantially, with Bob even losing on their own killboard, which is hard to do with all those peons for cover.  Having tried four capital battles and lost every time, we rolled the dice on a sub-capital engagement to regain the upper hand and lost that too.  Lolol they didn't even need to use titans on us.  We now hope that Goons attack Delve or Querious so that we have an excuse to back out and go home."

[Pezzle]

Providence is winning the outpost war.  5 have gone up in the last 2 weeks.  22 Outposts.  I cannot wait for the day Providence goes officially Amarr.

[Thrawn]

5 have gone up in the last 2 weeks.  22 Outposts.

That is a very impressive number. 

[Phildo]

Still no Aegis Militia outpost though?

[Endie]

Providence is winning the outpost war.  5 have gone up in the last 2 weeks.  22 Outposts.  I cannot wait for the day Providence goes officially Amarr.

Heh, Aegis Militia got given an outpost for I-MGAB!  That was nice of someone!

I say nice of someone since I know that, as of a few weeks ago, their outpost fund stood at a little over 1.2 billion.  I was seriously considering throwing them a billion, if they'd have promised that they wouldn't blow it on suiciding JFs or rorqs...

Edit:  Actually, that's cool.  I-MGAB was the system I pushed to throw Angelcor out of.  Next door was what amounted to my own personal system, since I had the only pos there after getting to FC capitals for the first time when we threw BRUCE out.

Double Edit: "Atlantis Revisited"?  What is that about?  I don't remember any of the AM people ever mentioning "Atlantis" from their history.  Is it from the wider history?  And did they go for a refinery outpost?

[sanctuary]

For a region that has very little valuable resources, that is impressive. Lets assume for a moment that CCP seriously considers the idea of adding Providence to Amarr, imagine the forum(s) bunfight over the naming of the systems. Lol RP'ers