Terminator: Salvation

[Venkman]

And come to think of it, I have no idea why Skynet would choose to use a human heart to power a machine in the first place. I'm sure there's some real geeky explanation along the lines of humans-as-batteries in Matrix (when freakin' microwaves in space, or just, like, colonizing space woulda made more sense). But to me it was merely a plot device to service the open heart surgery at the end.

And as an aside, nothing outside of that heart transplant event really made John Connor "trust" nor even like machines though because that one machine was one machine, a one-off, a prototype with a human personality that overroad whatever memories were intended to be inserted. Considering that prototype had to off himself to let John win to fight a war against the machines he hates, he merely sees the machines as useful tools.

And yea, I'd send a Terminator back for protection detail well before I'd send a human.

[schild]

If you've got faith in your ability to reprogram the things,

Assume, for a second, that the john connor we saw was the first john connor. Or at least, a John Connor that didn't have one or two T-800s protecting him. What then? Why would he even think Terminators can be reprogrammed differently?

Time Travel/Causality makes this a harder discussion. That's why I was trying to lay out the things that define the Terminator Universe earlier.

This movie was a horrible desecration of the originals, full of gross stupidities that only a fanboy would try to handwave away with a combination of "But it's just a movie!" excuses and torturous geek overanalysis. You're a horrible twat for liking it.

Not really. I haven't even seen it. I just wanted to be the one saying that for once.  awesome, for real

There is no realistic way for anything in the Terminator series to ever be half as bad as what your precious Star Wars turned out to be. You can mostly blame the fans for that, but Lucas definitely shares a good part of it.

[Velorath]

If you've got faith in your ability to reprogram the things,

Assume, for a second, that the john connor we saw was the first john connor. Or at least, a John Connor that didn't have one or two T-800s protecting him. What then? Why would he even think Terminators can be reprogrammed differently?

I'd assume whatever scientists are left would take every opportunity to study the enemies' technology and would at some point figure out how to reprogram the Terminators.

[WindupAtheist]

There is no realistic way for anything in the Terminator series to ever be half as bad as what your precious Star Wars turned out to be. You can mostly blame the fans for that, but Lucas definitely shares a good part of it.

I could start busting out the Rotten Tomatoes and/or Metacritic scores, but really I didn't come here to be that way or to take the thread in that direction. Heck, I thought I was making a joke at my own expense.

[schild]

If you've got faith in your ability to reprogram the things,

Assume, for a second, that the john connor we saw was the first john connor. Or at least, a John Connor that didn't have one or two T-800s protecting him. What then? Why would he even think Terminators can be reprogrammed differently?

I'd assume whatever scientists are left would take every opportunity to study the enemies' technology and would at some point figure out how to reprogram the Terminators.

I've always assumed that whenever someone resets the whole thing (though the TV show confirmed it), the series always pressed the reset button on the future. As in, that same future doesn't exist immediately after their sent back. Cameron and Derek were sent back in the TV show, they jump to a future where John Connor doesn't even exist as The John Connor yet.

[Ironwood]

There is no realistic way for anything in the Terminator series to ever be half as bad as what your precious Star Wars turned out to be. You can mostly blame the fans for that, but Lucas definitely shares a good part of it.

I could start busting out the Rotten Tomatoes and/or Metacritic scores, but really I didn't come here to be that way or to take the thread in that direction. Heck, I thought I was making a joke at my own expense.

I thought so too.  I even laughed.

There, there.

[Brogarn]

Special effects were excellent and the stuff with Marcus or Kyle Reese were the best parts of an otherwise horribly cheesy movie that was entirely too in love with itself. Christian Bale was ... well, he was Batman. And its getting really repetitive. Almost to the point where I think 2 Batman movies was enough.

[UnSub]

If you really want to get into why Skynet is incredibly stupid: why didn't it send back multiple Terminators to make it? And then multiple Terminators to update it to everything that happened in the future? It would have created an omnipotent machine.

But, anyway: still have to see this movie.

[jayfyve]

If you really want to get into why Skynet is incredibly stupid: why didn't it send back multiple Terminators to make it? And then multiple Terminators to update it to everything that happened in the future? It would have created an omnipotent machine.

But, anyway: still have to see this movie.

I think its obvious that the resistance is always thwarting their attempts. Otherwise Skynet probably wouldn't let them send any of their own back. Also, that's a strong part of the TV series plot. http://www.savethescc.com/ is gathering steam, and campaigning  to save the TV show through letter campaigns, etc and hoping WB or SyFy will pick it up.

[Brogarn]

[HaemishM]

I liked this movie. Fuck the haters. Even McG couldn't fuck it up.

Also, John having a half-man/half-robots heart explains why he was willing to send back reprogrammed robots in 2 and the TV show. So not only does it explain one of the missing key elements, it explains a huge part of the canon that was missing. Shit was fucking great.

Elfman can choke on a tailpipe though. He sucks so, so hard.

Wow, we totally agree on all of these points. I thought the movie was very good. It was an action movie. There were a few plot holes and inconsistencies (some of which are apparently covered up by the prequel novel that's out), but overall nothing that just made me /ragequit. Marcus was very good, Bale was ok, the plot thin as it was didn't suck, and the action was loud, pretty and well-done. I love that they didn't do the typical Hollywood "I shoot at a gas tanker and it explodes" thing and instead had to add a spark.

I would have really loved it if they'd gone with McG's original idea of killing Conner and replacing him with a reskinned Marcus. Or even better, kill Conner and have him not be replaced, but be a legend perpetrated by Reese and his wife. All these things get done in his name but he's really dead. That would have been cool. But they'd never do it with a big-budget action franchise.

Also, yes, Elfman is such a ball-licker.

[Kitsune]

The movie's original ending was better.

[Tarami]

Holy cow that's a stupid script. Artifical Retardation.

Predictions for film no. 2:

- Star grows up to be a superhacker after having seen a field radio be repaired with chewing gum and telekinesis. She then programs a tactically superior terminator that runs on rainbows and hugs, but shoots 120mm grenades and Stinger missiles. Soon thereafter she invents the inexhaustible Apache & Warthog hangar.

- The women remain smoking hot and as saucy-looking as if they just came home from a day at the spa. Also, things are hereonout effectivized and each born female is assigned a future spouse. They have strict orders not to act on these pretenses until assigned spouse performs a suitable, selfless and preferrably terminal, act.

- Kate dies horribly short after the daughter's birth. She names her Sarah with her final breaths. John overcomes his grief by chanting his own name, then decides that, really, something has to be done about these robots! His face remains unchanged throughout this grief process.

- Surprisingly, SkyNet releases a brand new line of sentient kitchen appliances. They each come armed with heavy machine guns and severe misanthropia, but can, with a screwdriver and a Nintendo DS, be disarmed and used normally. Still nobody believes the robots can be reprogrammed.

- SkyNet, recovering from its losses, still takes the high road of sportsmanship and finally accepts the handicap of only getting to have one player on the field at any one time.

- Bobby Fisher returns from the grave and beats SkyNet at chess. Kasparov turns in his grave. Deep Blue cries.

[WindupAtheist]

Given that it failed to open in first place, is on track to make less money than T3, and may not make back it's budget at the box office (yes, worldwide) I don't know as I'd start worrying about sequels just yet.

[Dion]

I just saw it, it was decent. Worth the money but not much more.

[IainC]

Watched it yesterday.

Was the usual by-the-numbers summer blockbuster specifically targeted at the least critical demographic that exists. Much of the dialogue made me cringe, the many and varied gaping plot holes made me care a whole lot less about the story and I came away with a distinct sense that someone had utterly wasted the money that could have been used to make several decent films with.

[Ironwood]

Did shit get blowed up ?

[Lantyssa]

Yes.

It was good enough for me to enjoy.  Robots and explosions people!

[Comstar]

The director was horrible, the writing was bad, the plot was stupid. Bale should be banned from being in any new films.

It was very much a movie length production of a Command & Conquer cut scene.  In fact I think you could dub the movie as GDI vs NOD and it would be hard to tell the difference.

[Tebonas]

I was spoilered about the original ending, and with that in mind I enjoyed this mediocre movie more than I probably should.

The new and improved nonhuman Terminators made no sense. Swimming eel Terminators for water patrols? Motorbike Terminators lodged in the feet of hulking weapon platform Terminators? Sound slike Skynet went a bit overboard in this iteration of the future.

The resistance was a bit too open with its operations. Radio signals between all their bases, both for military and recruitment purposes (Connors Radio Free Resistance). We know Skynet ignored those signals on purpose, but why did the resistance think they could pull that off without being discovered?

Connor was a whiny bitch that had only one thing going for him, the fucking prophecy and therefore the willingness of everybody else to die for his sake. I swear at this rate Terminator X will be called "The Last Man on Earth".

Marcus Wright was the high point of this movie, he played Bale against the wall, and with the current ending all that time was wasted for what basically was a heart donor. With the original ending all of that made sense, though. Skynet being fought and destroyed by what it created, all the prophecy stuff being true and needed, but not in the way everybody imagined. And I would buy why Connor was so good against the machines and could turn the tide against them all of a sudden. Because I don't see that potential in either Bale or Terminator 3 Connor.

[UnSub]

Still haven't seen this, but The Editing Room's abridged scripts are usually pretty spot on for mediocre films:

FADE IN:

INT. SKYNET BASE

CHRISTIAN BALE and a team of ROBOT FODDER break into a SKYNET military base which, despite the fact that it is made for machines instead of humans, is designed to make it easy for humans to move around.

CHRISTIAN BALE

It looks like Skynet is taking human prisoners. Something’s different. This isn’t the future my mother warned me about. That future definitely had lasers, I’m sure of it. That future would have been totally sweet.

MICHAEL IRONSIDE

Bale! You’re a loose cannon! You’ve destroyed over half the city! I’ve got the mayor breathing down my neck!

[jayfyve]

The new and improved nonhuman Terminators made no sense. Swimming eel Terminators for water patrols? Motorbike Terminators lodged in the feet of hulking weapon platform Terminators? Sound slike Skynet went a bit overboard in this iteration of the future.

I think those are the older model terminators before they attained perfection with Model Ahhhnold were they not?

[Tebonas]

Could be, but especially motorcycle terminators are a really dumb idea. How do they even get up again once they tip over? I have this vision of the resistance tipping one on its head and taunting it.

[HaemishM]

You don't think Skynet thought of a telescoping kickstand/leg that tips the bike back up to balanced level when it tips over?

[Tebonas]

You mean the same Skynet that didn't think about sending more than one Terminator to kill its arch-nemesis John Connor when it laid a trap inside a Terminator factory? 

[HaemishM]

It was busy putting its viewscreen back together after Marcus RROD'ed it.

[K9]

This film was depressingly average. Sam Worthington as Marcus Wright was definitely the star of the show for me, although the whole heart transplant ending pissed me off. I also found it harder than usual to willfully suspend my disbelief in this film; the terminator factory full of stairs, chairs and tables seemed odd, but then I was half-expecting to find a cabal of crazed supremacist humans behind the scenes running something that would necessitate all that. Sadly this wasn't the case.

The cameo by CGI Arnie was great though.

[SurfD]

I have always just accepted the "human accessible layout" of most Skynet facilities as being based around the fact that skynet was designed by humans, so when it took over, it essentially just moved in to the existing buildings.  

Why is the lab so human friendly?  Because skynet didn't build it, it stole it from whatever human organization initially owned it, and never felt the need to modify it to fit it's own needs.   Personally, I don't picture skynet as much of a builder to begin with.  At the most, it probably just does some basic re-tooling of existing human manufacturing facilities, and ignores everything else about the structure it deems irrelevant.

-----------------------

On a side note, I have always wondered: Exactly how much about the past / present interactions spawned by it's messing with time does Skynet actually know.

For example, skynet seems to be aware that Kyle Reese is important (it specificly targets some Civilian that the Resistance Command for all intents and purposes didnt even know existed) but we never find out why.  

Why does it put Reese at the top of it's kill list when (if we go by the events of the movies) only John should actually be aware of ANY of the signifigance of Reese and his actions / existance at that point in time.

I am assuming it knows Reese gets sent back in time to save Sara, but does it know Reese is actually John's father?  If it knew that, and we act on the assumption that each time travel event IS iterating changes in the future, would there ever be the possibility that skynet would deliberately NOT invent time travel, basicly preventing John from being born by removing the means for his mother ever meeting his father?  (now how is THAT for a fucked up time travel scenario  )

Of course, that leaves us back at the first time travel event to begin with, where a man who should not exist (by conventional logic, since at that point his father had not met his mother yet) sends his own father back in time to knock his mother up. 

[Tarami]

It's time travel. It doesn't even begin to make sense.

[Arthur_Parker]

Finally saw it, I hope the next one is worth watching as I didn't really see the point of this one.

[Strazos]

But wasn't it due to time travel that Skynet was invented in the first place? The remains of the first terminator in the past were the building blocks and inspiration for the creation of Skynet by the guy who blows up Cyberdyne in T2.

[Teleku]

Still haven't seen this, but The Editing Room's abridged scripts are usually pretty spot on for mediocre films:

HELENA BONHAM CARTER
Hello Sam. Thank you. You have lured Christian Bale here. Our plan all along was to release you, at which point you could earn his trust and tell him that his teenage father has been captured, causing him to attempt a rescue that we could anticipate and prevent!
SAM WORTHINGTON
Why not just kill his teenage father?
HELENA BONHAM CARTER
…
SAM WORTHINGTON
Did you seriously not think of this?
HELENA BONHAM CARTER
FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

LOL, I can't stop laughing at his!

[Tale]

Sam Worthington as Marcus Wright was definitely the star of the show for me

Agree. He needs to star in his own franchise. Something brand new from good scriptwriters that will have long life like Mel Gibson in Mad Max, Bruce Willis in Die Hard, Christian Bale in Batman, etc.

Saw the movie last night and enjoyed it. Then again, it was helping me recover from sitting through Land of the Lost earlier in the day with a friend and her seven-year-old (she thought it was a kids' flick, turns out it's a bad stoner movie).

[Rendakor]

Still haven't seen this, but The Editing Room's abridged scripts are usually pretty spot on for mediocre films:

HELENA BONHAM CARTER
Hello Sam. Thank you. You have lured Christian Bale here. Our plan all along was to release you, at which point you could earn his trust and tell him that his teenage father has been captured, causing him to attempt a rescue that we could anticipate and prevent!
SAM WORTHINGTON
Why not just kill his teenage father?
HELENA BONHAM CARTER
…
SAM WORTHINGTON
Did you seriously not think of this?
HELENA BONHAM CARTER
FFFFFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU

LOL, I can't stop laughing at his!

Thanks, that was excellent.

[Sir T]

The new and improved nonhuman Terminators made no sense. Swimming eel Terminators for water patrols? Motorbike Terminators lodged in the feet of hulking weapon platform Terminators? Sound slike Skynet went a bit overboard in this iteration of the future.

I think those are the older model terminators before they attained perfection with Model Ahhhnold were they not?

Not that anyone cares, but in the First Terminator Reese says the the first terminators infiltrators had rubber skin, but that the Arnie terminators with human skin were "new."