New and Improved Poker thread

[cmlancas]

You should just come post for me anytime. I'm in complete agreement with you. :)

[Margalis]

One thing that isn't clear from Ab's post: an overbet when the opponent is calling with bad odds is fine *if* they will call it.

There are two reasons you don't want to make a huge overbet:

1. Opponent might fold.
2. Opponent might have a better hand than you think.

If your opponent has bad odds and you know they will call betting 10x the pot makes sense and is a great EV play. Unfortunately you are rarely if ever in a situation where you know for a fact the opponent will make a terrible call with a bad hand.

[Abagadro]

That is true. I should have made that more clear.

[cmlancas]

Clarity has gone awry in this thread.


Do ya'll ever play online at all? And if so, which sites? It might be fun to get in a free-chip table sometime, or watch you play in a freeroll.

[Margalis]

I play online at PokerStars occasionally. I used to play a lot, now I play maybe once a month.

[UD_Delt]

Thank the lord for what? You can't play with a normal bankroll because you have to expect to take $500 swings every night. It's not so unheard of to get sucked out on that much.


It's unbelievably frustrating. I posted a little while back detailing the ridiculous chances people take against you. If you think you can beat the tables, the pickings are wide open down here.

Sounds like you're playing outside of your bankroll. I thought the rule of thumb for NL was around 25 buyins. So If you're buying in for $500 you should have 10k-15k in your bankroll, not necessarily with you but in the reserves should you need it.

For limit I've always read you should have 300x big blind. I found that to be a bit high as the worst I've ever taken was around a 150bb swing to the negative but maybe that's just because i've been lucky and haven't had a REALLY bad run yet. Although that one felt really bad. Since then I've just maintained around a 200xbig blind bankroll.

[eldaec]

I play online at PokerStars occasionally. I used to play a lot, now I play maybe once a month.

I have an account at pokerstars, but rarely play it, because I find the standard of play is higher at Stars than most other rooms.

That said, I usually play NL Sit and Go, it may be better for other formats.

I'd recommend Pacific Poker.

They almost always rank near the top of Bonuswhore's automated bad player detector....

http://www.bonuswhores.com/site-utilities/game-quality-grid.php

But maybe it's just me driving up the average ;)

[Arnold]

But what if you know that they will chase every time and that they aren't playing by the fundamental theorem of poker?


Welcome to my local cardroom, sir.

Play higher stakes?

[WayAbvPar]

But what if you know that they will chase every time and that they aren't playing by the fundamental theorem of poker?


Welcome to my local cardroom, sir.

Play higher stakes?

If you can't beat the smaller games, playing higher 'so people respect my raises' is bankroll suicide.

[cmlancas]

Yes. However, I do suffer from "it's the only game in town" syndrome, so even if I could play higher, I can't under law.

[Wolf]

Reading up on this thread has made me feel a bit better. I've been feeling good about how my game is progressing and had started branching out and playing not only with my friends. The last month has, however, been a fucking disaster. I don't play much, maybe once a week, at most twice. In that period I have _NOT_ won a race (out of at least 20), have been 2 outed 4 times in 3 different games for pretty big pots, have not made a flush after flopping a four flush ONCE, have missed on 2 monster draws (up and down straights with flush draws, 15 outs?). And that's not even counting ridiculous stuff like flopping trips vs a full house (JAvJ10 and a JJ10 flop). My belief in poker has taken a serious hit. Should I take a brake or ride it out? I can continue playing these stakes forever, without punishing other stuff I like to do, but I was really thinking about playing more seriously.

Also can someone link me to a bankroll management article?

[LK]

I'd like to see an article on bankroll management.

This weekend was a poker weekend for me, but it didn't go so hot. Thankfully, a happy ending considering how it went.

After the first 30 minutes I'm down $200 at the No Limit $100 table (two bad beats in a row, my KK got cracked by 99, etc).  For another 4 hours I was down another $200 from a slow and steady decline, but not terrible.

At that point I decided to enroll in my first high stakes game.  I guess it was a "Fuck it." moment. Literally, I shouldn't have been at that game since that $500 was apparently my entire bankroll.  So I sat down at the $500 table with 5/10 blinds, and I have to say, the poker these guys were playing was way, way, way more my style.  No shit calls, good betting and stuff, none of that "Oh I will go in with 7 2 off suit" or "I will play for fun by raising 5 times the blind without seeing my cards", which lead to more solid play on my part because I had confidence.  All-Ins at that level were really traumatic for me but those didn't happen unless there was a damn good reason (or someone trying to steal your money).  I had some good cards early, but still could never get above even.  I was down another $150, managed to crawl back up to $460 of my original $500 stack after a couple good hands.

J10 suited on the pocket, I call the blinds, 4 other callers.  Flop comes down 9, 8, 7.  9 and 7 are Diamonds.  I have hearts.  I figure, OK, just bet something decent.  I put $75 into the pot.  The guy immediately after me bets $200.  Everyone else folds.

So I'm like "Christ."  I push all in.  That’s a new record for money in a hand for me.  I think the highest amount I've betted before was $170.

Diamond on the turn.  I just started getting up and putting my jacket on.

Fifth card was 2 of Hearts.  I flipped my cards and said "Your flush beats my straight."

The guy had 10 9, one of which was a diamond.  I stood there stupefied for about 5 seconds.

I sat down, played a little longer (the $950 I had went down as low as $750 but I recovered to $900 and decided to call it quits there), and went home breaking roughly even if I took into account the game's I had played this month.

[WayAbvPar]

Take your pick for bankroll management articles.

So, I am once again haunting the local card room to try and rebuild my tattered bankroll after Vegas. I have had 3 winning sessions so far, but the latest one was interesting for a non-poker reason.


Playing $4/$8 and chatting with a young kid with whom I have played before, and a younger woman sitting on my immediate right. After an hour or two, the kid comes back from the rest room and says he swears he saw Sir Mixalot at the front desk of the poker room. I glance over, but it is crowded and hard to see. The guy I see looks kinda like Mix, but seems shorter than I remembered, and I say so. The young lady looks over and declares that it isn't him. She then gets up from her seat.

She returns a few minutes later laughing- she had gone to talk to her fiance, and the first thing he said was "I think I just saw Sir Mixalot!". We all laugh. A new dealer is just coming in, and the kid asks her if she knew if Mix was in the house. She mentioned that he lived in the area, but wasn't sure. As she was saying this, the guy in question walks by, and it looks a hell of a lot like him. The young lady next to me is racking up her chips to leave, and he stops right next to her. She asks if he is Sir Mixalot, and he confirms it. Cool!

Then he takes HER SEAT right next to me, and we play poker together for 3 hours or so. He is a hell of a nice guy. He happened to visit Vegas the week after I did, so we traded war stories and chatted. He isn't a great poker player (which he readily admits), but he enjoys playing now and then. A couple of people stopped by for autographs. As he was signing the first one, I ask "Do you want mine too?" The guy looked really confused, like maybe he should know me but didn't. Heh.

On my last orbit, I picked up AA and raised from the big blind. 3 callers, including Mix. Flop is QQ3 with 2 diamonds. I bet, and 2 call (including Mix). Turn is an nondiamond 5. I bet, both call. River brings a non diamond 4. I know one of them was on a flush draw, but I am not sure if someone was softplaying a Q at this point. Mix bets out into me. I just call, since I have no idea what to put him on, but have a sinking feeling I am beat. Other guy folds, and Mix turns over A2 for the rivered wheel. I laugh and show him my aces. His eyes get big as he says 'I thought you were just bullshitting since this is your last hand!'. Too funny. I fold 2 more hands, rack up my chips (+$130 for the night), tell Mix it was nice to meet him, and wander away.

All in all, one the most enjoyable poker sessions of my life.

[FMR]

Best article on the web regarding bankroll management imho.... 

http://www.pocketfives.com/5C57520F-8A89-43F3-97E6-54D240CB3E59.aspx

Grats on the fun night Wayabvpar, I'd be too interesting in dropping "posse on broadway" and "baby got back" references to play decent poker with him on my immediate right.

[Bunk]

Fun story. I'll admit I wouldn't have recognized him sitting down beside me :)
 
Closest I've come to that type of encounter was missing Kevin Smith and Jason Mewes by one day at the local poker room. They apparently attracted quite the crowd.

[Abagadro]

Cool story.

Since we are playing "brush with greatness at poker table," I had Wilford Brimley play next to me for quite a while. Nice guy, terrible player. I didn't ask him about the diabeetus.

[Furiously]

She asks if he is Sir Mixalot, and he confirms it. Cool!

Then he takes HER SEAT right next to me, and we play poker together for 3 hours or so. He is a hell of a nice guy.

All in all, one the most enjoyable poker sessions of my life.

Did he like your butt?

[Abagadro]

Interesting Congressional committee hearing on repealing the internet poker ban that asshat Frist slipped into the ports bill. My favorite part was this exchange between a freshman representative from Tennasee and a witness from the Family Research Council (James Dobson's group):

    COHEN: Do you think that horse racing and dog racing and lotteries should be legal in the United States?

    MCCLUSKY: Are you asking me?

    COHEN: Yes, you personally.

    MCCLUSKY: The Family Research Council does believe that such things should be illegal.

    COHEN: So it is really not the Internet you are against. It is gambling in general. Is that right?

    MCCLUSKY: Yes, that would be true, or at least unrestricted gambling such as we have with the Internet or other.

    COHEN: But the lottery is restricted. You can't play if you are a child. Same thing with horse racing. But you are against that, are you not?

    MCCLUSKY: Yes.

    COHEN: So restricted or unrestricted, you are against it?

    MCCLUSKY: Yes.

    COHEN: Is there any fun that you are for?

[WayAbvPar]

Hehe that is good times. I really hope they get something passed (preferably the regulatory version of the bill) so the fishies come back to online poker.

[LK]

Interesting Congressional committee hearing on repealing the internet poker ban that asshat Frist slipped into the ports bill. My favorite part was this exchange between a freshman representative from Tennasee and a witness from the Family Research Council (James Dobson's group):

    COHEN: Do you think that horse racing and dog racing and lotteries should be legal in the United States?

    MCCLUSKY: Are you asking me?

    COHEN: Yes, you personally.

    MCCLUSKY: The Family Research Council does believe that such things should be illegal.

    COHEN: So it is really not the Internet you are against. It is gambling in general. Is that right?

    MCCLUSKY: Yes, that would be true, or at least unrestricted gambling such as we have with the Internet or other.

    COHEN: But the lottery is restricted. You can't play if you are a child. Same thing with horse racing. But you are against that, are you not?

    MCCLUSKY: Yes.

    COHEN: So restricted or unrestricted, you are against it?

    MCCLUSKY: Yes.

    COHEN: Is there any fun that you are for?

Is there more of this? I'd like to read the entire debate, or at least find news about what's going on.  I think a lot of people are interested if the ability to gamble online in poker was restored.

[UD_Delt]

Is there more of this? I'd like to read the entire debate, or at least find news about what's going on.  I think a lot of people are interested if the ability to gamble online in poker was restored.

All the latest and greatest of poker legislation can usually be found here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/postlist.php?Cat=&Board=law

Here's the rest of that exchange on "fun"

Rep. Steven Cohen: Is there any fun that you’re for? [laughter in background]
Tom McClusky (FRC): Any what?
Rep. Steven Cohen: Fun.
Tom McClusky: Umm…well, we’re for this, and this seems like a lot of fun.
Rep. Steven Cohen: Hearings?
Tom McClusky: [no response…laughter in background]
Rep. Steven Cohen: Good, good.

I'm looking now for a full transcript. Apparently Annie Duke was present as well and did a decent job.

[Abagadro]

The page for the hearing is here:

http://judiciary.house.gov/oversight.aspx?ID=396

Although I can't seem to find a transcript on there in my very limited poking around.

[UD_Delt]

Clarity has gone awry in this thread.


Do ya'll ever play online at all? And if so, which sites? It might be fun to get in a free-chip table sometime, or watch you play in a freeroll.

God damn it!!!

I haven't played online in a while and haven't really been keeping up but why the hell didn't anyone mention that Absolute Poker are

COMPLETE UTTER FUCKING DOUCHE BAGS!!!

That used to be where I played and I still have a couple hundred dollars there I need to figure out a way to get out.

For anyone not up on the news it appears that Absolute had super user accounts that could see the hole cards of everyone at the table. This/these account(s) were used to scam nearly 1 million dollars from unsuspecting players before they were discovered because of some smart players paying attention and yet another fuckup by Absolute customer support.

Apparently customer support sent a hand history file from an entire tournament to someone who played in the tourney. While not unusual for people to request histories, the strange thing was they showed the hole cards for everyone in the tourney whereas they usually only show the cards of those who go to a showdown at the river. The HH also included account numbers and IP addresses (important later).

Using the hand history players were able to see that a certain player never called on the river. He either raised when he had the best hand or folded when he was beat, no calls ever. Looking further they realized the only way he could possibly win a tourney playing this maniacal style was if he could see all the cards.

After further detective work it was discovered that by cross checking IP addresses w/ the account number that it was one of the former owners of Absolute who was using this account to scam people. Possible including friends of his as well.

Luckily I played at a much lower level than where this all took place so it is doubtful I would have ever been affected but it is still shady as all fuck and I will trying to get my money out of Absolute this weekend.

[WayAbvPar]

Heh. I read through the drama at 2p2. I think they had a 1000+ post thread every day about it for 2 weeks. What a clusterfuck. Only place I play is Pokerstars. Games are probably tougher, but they are easily the best customer service on the 'Net.

[Margalis]

I would not trust any site with a lot of money. There isn't much incentive for the people running the site to rip you off but there is plenty of incentive for other employees and players. On the Stars 100-200 limit table I've seen what looked like obvious collusion.

[Furiously]

Yea - it's not hard to get at the same table as a couple friends and get on Ventrillo...

[cmlancas]

PokerStars sent me $5 free today. That was pretty cool. I like trying to see how much I can build on free money, a la Chris Ferguson.

[WayAbvPar]

They also have a promo running through Sunday for deposits via eCheck- 50% bonus on the deposit up $50 ($100 deposit). If you plan to play there, it is basically free money.

[cmlancas]

Unfortunately, it feels like playing LOTRO on PokerStars. Why is the interface so slow?

[WayAbvPar]

How do you mean slow? Laggy? Or just hard to use? There are people who play 12-16 tables at a time, so it can't be THAT slow  I usually get overwhelmed after 3 or 4.

[UD_Delt]

Hehe I've been trying the short-stacking method Ferguson used when he did that challenge. All I can say is that variance is a bitch...

[cmlancas]

How do you mean slow? Laggy? Or just hard to use? There are people who play 12-16 tables at a time, so it can't be THAT slow  I usually get overwhelmed after 3 or 4.

The controls just feel slow. I always feel like I am waiting ten minutes for my hand to come and whatnot. I like to see a lot of hands per hour. As of today though, my BR is hovering around $12. Doing alright so far! :D


Edit: If you can play micro (insane rake) to about $10, the $3 + $.25 6 player sit-n-gos are pretty weak. I've won 50% so far, and I'm by no means a good player.

[Trouble]

Poker is the gift that keeps on giving for me. It's like "another game" sort of, a strategy pvp game. Except when I win, I get money. I sometimes wish all games were like that, because I'd be very rich. I just wish I could stick with it longterm, I get tired of it for a while like I do with every other game. I cash out most of my money and buy some goodies. When I come back I'm still limited to low stakes because my bankroll is too small (due to cashing out). If I had stuck with it for the last couple years I could be doing it professionally most likely.

And now it's time for "Show your Sharkscope" time! Sharkscope is a great site that tracks the Sit'n'Go results from most of the major poker sites. If you're big into tourneys like I am then it should have a pretty good record of your results. You can only do 5 searches a day unless you pay, but it's still pretty cool to check out your progress.

My Sharkscope

Keep in mind that only tracks Sit'n'Gos. Any scheduled tournaments won't be displayed.


It's amazing how people can be so good at one type of poker and so bad at another. I lose money in ring games like crazy. It get frustrated and piss away my money pretty quick usually. But with tournament I'm a lot more focused and I can see the finish line, the goal. I get very positive results in tourneys, from single table to multi-table to huge tourneys.

[Margalis]

According to Sharkscope I'm down a dollar, but it only has 5 results total.

I make my money on Stud 8 anyway.

[Trouble]

Yeah, it's only useful to heavy tourney players, specifically Sit'n'Go's.