War

[Endie]

Slayerik will have a better idea of this, but surely the unfortunate thing about YW's strategy is that it is utterly unsustainable?

I mean, PL and Blackops shut down Rise space with about 40 people in there at the most.  As Simond says, Blackops are already murdering the Sphere Coalition's morale and participation with even fewer.  How is YW going to do with a substantial part of Tri freely roaming their space?

[Simond]

You know when I said that RISE were going to be basing out of Exuro Mortis space in Fountain? Apparently, nobody told EM this...so they started shooting RISE when RISE showed up.

[WindupAtheist]

God, I love this thread and I've never even played the game.

"We didn't want MC anyway!"

[Slayerik]

Slayerik will have a better idea of this, but surely the unfortunate thing about YW's strategy is that it is utterly unsustainable?

I mean, PL and Blackops shut down Rise space with about 40 people in there at the most.  As Simond says, Blackops are already murdering the Sphere Coalition's morale and participation with even fewer.  How is YW going to do with a substantial part of Tri freely roaming their space?

Had a busy weekend in RL, but from my understanding we didn't perform all that great combined with Youwhat boring half our pilots back to other regions previous to this fight. We have a few pissed alliance leaders and expect YW to feel some pain real soon.

They did hold us off but lost some carriers and of course support in the action. In the end, it was a defeat but one I doubt will be repeated. Like you said, basically unsustainable. The bright side is we took Fade in a week, and expected a last stand of sorts in Cloud Ring. YW's days are still quite numbered. The Cyno Jammer fights have been the hardest, once we get our caps in YW runs for cover.

[Yoru]

Wait, wait. Weren't 0utbreak attacking IAC, AAA or the Goons/Russians a few months back? What happened there?

[Slayerik]

Wait, wait. Weren't 0utbreak attacking IAC, AAA or the Goons/Russians a few months back? What happened there?

I too have been curious what outbreak have been up to.

[MahrinSkel]

Wait, wait. Weren't 0utbreak attacking IAC, AAA or the Goons/Russians a few months back? What happened there?

That was a case of them liking FIX (a lot of them are ex-FIX, and some still jump back and forth between there and FIX) and hating dogpiles, not any love for BoB.  Soon as BoB ships started showing up, they left the theatre (which had been understood from the beginning).

--Dave

[Endie]

With the compliments of the Mittani, some YouWhat porn.  As he points out, never has an alliance been better named:

Originally Posted by LAST MSG FROM KRALL
2007.10.15 14:45
I suggest to all corp of old ex Fs, and all corp i invite on youwhat like mindstar, the rising start etc, to leave this alliance.


FIrst of all ally wallet is taken completely by Wildcard, for his personal idea, (he not ask me , and he is using for his own idea to buy ship whit ally wallet and resell to ally, than he broken the REFUND POLITICS, whithout say anything this to alliance or me, than sorry guys there is no found on alliance for refund back the ships, all mail i have i cant do anything, all money is on hand of Wildcard, his personal charachter on holding corp)


Second, this ally is fucked by Fcing of jugger/wild, hthey decide to enter on c4c when i was absolutly of another idea, (100 ship vs 100 ship +16 capiltal = idiocy enter..)he do, we lost first fleet, 2nd time he decide whit wild to disband a 190 man fleet on l-c whit 150 enemy on c4c, i was completely angry about this decision and say on command chat many times is idiocy, do not do this, they do,

Um, you what?

-----
2007.10.06 03:02
17.00 EVE TIME + CTA

ALL CAPITAL AND PILOT ME BE ON L-C307 AT THE BRIDGE POS INSIDE (REGROUP)

DO NOT LOG OUT INSIDE STATION, ALL GO AND LOG OUT INSIDE THAT POS

SNIPER BS PREFER 170km+ optimal
ALL CAPITAL NEEDED NO ONE EXCLUDE
ALL CORP EX FS WHO NOT PLACE TOWER, NEED TO HAVE THEYR TOWER RDY,
SUPPORT: HAC-COMMAND- OR WELL TANKED BC,


CORP WHO NOT ARE PRESENT ON CTA, WILL BE KICKED WHITHOUT ANY EXPLAIN, PEOPLE FIND MAKE THEYR OWN BUSINESS WELL BE KILLED AND KICKED.


100% OF ALLIANCE MUST BE ON THIS CTA. 350 ONLINE? MINIMUM OF 250+ ON CTA.


PS: This is an alt of Krall Amarr

-----


2007.10.06 08:46
ALL CORP MUST PLACE 100% TAX

UNDER CTA ALL MUST BE ON CTA,

NO MINING, NO MISSION, NO RAT

ALL MEET AT L-C307 FROM NOW TO CTA, REGROUP ON L-C307

and

007.10.06 06:54
After skimming through the pos listings & fittings, it's pretty obvious why tri were able to take them out so quickly. You can't be cheap in fittings, & can't skimp on defences.

Shield hardners just delay the inevitable. Dont' waste time with them

EW only works well against a few ships...so put a few that work but don't overload on them

WEB / SCRAM battery's are useless. Don't even bother unless it's a single ship.

Your best friend in this scenario are GUNS!

Yes people...guns. Don't hold htem or jam them or web them..just kill them. After the last patch, guns now hit drones / fighters / ships & lock 3.5X faster than b4. USE LARGE GUNS. There is no point spreading dmg to a large number of ships that can just tank or warp away. Put the max dmg you can on a single ship...kill it & move to the next one. Small / med guns are cheaper yes...but not as good. Go large all the way.

Furthermore...

2007.10.06 06:59
medium & small guns are USELESS. Don't even bother. They may lock fast...but all they'll do is scratch. You need to kill the guy almost instantly..& med / small gun's just dont' but it there. ALWAYS go large

They should totally do this.

2007.10.14 05:14
260 people in alliance and 20 in cloud ring? OMG people

--------------------
2007.10.14 05:12
WHERE THE FUCK IS EVERYONE...

We tend to have about 100 on in the US timezone and no more than I'd guess 20 in cloud ring, we need everyone's support, no matter what time you play, please contact me if you need help moving into cloud ring, if we move as a group, we can make it and we can easily push tri out, CEO's please contact me, this is ridiculous...



2007.10.13 12:25
From today L-C sov is gone. The defending of Fade didn't got that well. This may have serveral reasons, but main reason is that 80% of the ally is a bit to lazy. In the morning hours TRI has absolute no numbers. There are more or less max. About 10-15 of them at L-C. Their prime time is the evening. So we have timeslots in which we can engage with loer numbers.
Since lots of members have still asserts in L-C we need to retake that. Since most of us did a break durning last days , i want at last that each Y Ally Corp supports us with one large tower + gear. You will find the Tower setups in the Forum. Also your corp needs some good pos gunners. I case of transport problems contact me.
Also I want you to geather at XZH. And i mean all. You have time for the regrouping till

----

16.Oct 2007.
If you dont want to regroup i assume that you arn't intersted in Y anmore.





(This one has the title "Dont log in stations", sent by one of the alliance "leaders")

2007.10.14 10:19
Log in Sapce!
Log in Sapce!
Log in Sapce!
Log in Sapce!
Log in Sapce!
Log in Sapce!
Log in Sapce!

hope that helps....

So there you go.

[Yoru]

 

 So, they were defeated because none of them actually knew what anyone else in their alliance was trying to say? I'm still wondering what "PILOT ME BE ON" means.

[Simond]

ALL CORP MUST PLACE 100% TAX

UNDER CTA ALL MUST BE ON CTA,

NO MINING, NO MISSION, NO RAT

ALL MEET AT L-C307 FROM NOW TO CTA, REGROUP ON L-C307

This, more than anything else, convinces me that YouWhat are utterly doomed, and soon. Yes, even more than their unique POS theorycrafting. Every single alliance that has sent out a notice along these lines (100% Tax + thou shalt PvP only) has folded soon afterwards. All that's left for them to do is for to rename their home station to some variant of "The Alamo".

[Comstar]

Meanwhile on the Bastonge Front (aka, F4 in Catch) with MC pulling out the 2 ISS POS's that were going to gain Sov were killed by a combined Coalition fleet (BoB once again discovers that contracting ISS to fuel your POS's is a bad idea). F4 is now secure.

RA&AAA also took 50+ dreads and 3 Titans and reinforced every single POS in V2 and FAT.

[Slayerik]

MC ... COME BAAAAAACCCCCKKKKKK!!!!!!

Thanks for the Youwhat stuff, got a grin out of it. My favorite part is from yesterday...

"16.Oct 2007.
If you dont want to regroup i assume that you arn't intersted in Y anmore."


I assumed they weren't interested in Y anymore when they lost Fade in a week.

COAD gem:

[dwindlehop]

Is there a new map? The latest auto influence map on Eve files seems to be from August.

[Endie]

God, I love this thread and I've never even played the game.

"We didn't want MC anyway!"

I'm intrigued as to what sort of a view you've built up of the state of the war, and how it would compare with someone who actually plays the game but not as a member of one of the combatants.

Is there a new map? The latest auto influence map on Eve files seems to be from August.

I suspect you're looking at teh wrong one.  Websense blocks them for me at work, but the original automated influence map stagnated, but the source code was open-sourced (I think) so others maintain it now.  Someone should be able to give you the right link.

[WindupAtheist]

I'm intrigued as to what sort of a view you've built up of the state of the war, and how it would compare with someone who actually plays the game but not as a member of one of the combatants.

I'm under the impression that while you guys have apparently been having some good success lately, BoB is so expansive and entrenched that it's been a bit like chipping away at the side of a mountain with a hammer and chisel.  They've had their noses bloodied, but the leadership isn't cowering in the fuerherbunker awaiting death just yet.

Up until recently, I figured your advance would peter out somewhere short of BoB home territory, and the whole thing would turn into a stalemate for months on end until I quit paying attention.  That may still happen.  But with RISE collapsing, M. Pire switching sides, and MC withdrawing, all around the same time...  I mean, I don't really know the relative sizes of the organizations involved, so I could be way off-base, but that sounds like a hell of a lot of pieces for BoB to have taken off the chessboard all at once.

Especially the MC thing.  I'm curious as to how much of an effect that will have.

[Slayerik]

For the record, the goonies black ops/intelligence is pretty freaking cool. I know a lot of people really hate goons, but if I weren't in TRI they would probably be my first place to go.

How large is Goonswarm, roughly?

[Der Helm]

fuerherbunker

Fuehrerbunker (Führerbunke)

Yes, I am that bored.

That is all.

[Endie]

For the record, the goonies black ops/intelligence is pretty freaking cool. I know a lot of people really hate goons, but if I weren't in TRI they would probably be my first place to go.

How large is Goonswarm, roughly?

Yeah, people say infiltrating enemy alliances is horrendous due to their immense faggotry, but I enjoy my GIA stuff almost as much as my main, sometimes.  Less POS-shotting and slightly less 7-minute-module-lag fleet fights.  But I'm training my main up for force recons, now his T2 large hybrids have reached the point of diminishing returns, so I might volunteer for some blackops stuff when I get to come in from the cold 

How large Goonswarm is depends on your definition.  There are 5380 members of Goonfleet at the moment, but some of them are members of allied corps.  I'm sure it's not opsec that we threw out our inactive accounts recently, so that's fighting strength.  There are almost 6000 forum account holders on goonfleet.com, but a lot of those read the forums, and only re-subscribe if something really juicy comes along to kill.  So, in addition to the other, oft-mentioned advantages of our whole out-of-game cultural thing, it lends us an unusually big emergency reserve, I suppose.

[dwindlehop]

If anyone wants to see current member counts, Eve Strategic Maps has the most up-to-date numbers I've seen. Actual fighting strength is a lot more difficult to come by, of course.

[Comstar]

Infulence map

]Also animated map here.

[Slayerik]

Infulence map

]Also animated map here.

Nice links, thanks!

[Slayerik]

From a MC friend...in summary....

basically, Bob fucked them over in the North. They said they would lend them a hand with a Titan to help jump bridge shit out, that never showed. Billions in assets stranded. Around that time, MC asked M. Pire to come down and join the fight...which Bob ends up fucking up.

Sounds as if they are very pissed and will no longer help Bob.

I'm guessing the Goon's mission for destruction includes MC as well at this point huh? Either way, big hit for Bob.

[Ratadm]

I think MC are still open to contracts it's just they want 50b a week currently.

[Comstar]

Sounds as if they are very pissed and will no longer help Bob.I'm guessing the Goon's mission for destruction includes MC as well at this point huh? Either way, big hit for Bob.

Sounds like they want a contract to buy themselves a Titan again.

Problem is, who else CAN they work for? Red Swarm Federation, AAA, IAC etc won't hire them (in equal parts past-anger and knowledge that MC is overrated). The old North for the same reasons, and Trimavault doesn't need them to kill YouWhat. The drone regions can't afford them. BoB's minor pets have the same problem (FIX though is now able to recover in peace for the time being). The only ones who can or willing to will be BoB on behalf of saving their pets (well, saving FIX at any rate. Mabye the'll higher MC to save ISS or something).

[WindupAtheist]

I kinda wondered if the Titan loss had something to do with it.  Like someone at MC went "Fuck, how much did that Titan cost again?  This is going to be a long expensive war.  Let's just soldier on to a point where we can declare mission accomplished with a straight face and then duck out of this moneysink."

[Slayerik]

I kinda wondered if the Titan loss had something to do with it.  Like someone at MC went "Fuck, how much did that Titan cost again?  This is going to be a long expensive war.  Let's just soldier on to a point where we can declare mission accomplished with a straight face and then duck out of this moneysink."

I will guarentee you that the cost of that titan getting blown up was less than what BoB cost them by not helping them jump bridge shit out of the North (since MC couldn't, they lost their Titan that would enable them to). All in all, Bob are on a downward spiral. They are fucking over too many of their own friends to last long, their pets are getting systematically pwned, and I'm -guessing- morale is getting low.

[Sparky]

Why has BoB gone to shit recently?  I don't mean just losing ground, that was inevitable after the supercap nerf.  But huge blunders fucking over friends that could've easily been avoided.  Are the old guard leaving/invactive and a bunch of newbie directors fucking everything up?  Maybe really losing ground for the first time was too much of a shock to the system?

[Merusk]

From reading this thread I've always put it down to two things.

1) The game has grown, a LOT since BoB had gained 'big badass' status.  They turned a lot of newer players off with their former elitism, and so they're not getting a lot of new folks the way other places are.

2) Some people can adapt when a game changes.  Some people continue playing the old game, never quite understanding the rules have changed and how subtley they may have done so.   I'm not referring to just hard-coded stats and mechanics here.

[TheDreamr]

Why has BoB gone to shit recently?  I don't mean just losing ground, that was inevitable after the supercap nerf.  But huge blunders fucking over friends that could've easily been avoided.  Are the old guard leaving/invactive and a bunch of newbie directors fucking everything up?  Maybe really losing ground for the first time was too much of a shock to the system?

My (uneducated) guess would be that they've always made these mistakes, but previously both parties would have returned to the table and beaten out a solution because being on BoB's side seemed like a safe bet and so it was worth bartering over the little details.

Nowdays BoB seems a very risky bet for someone who overcharges their tenants, only provides assistance when it suits them and might not even own the space they're renting out in a months time, assuming it's even suitable for purpose.

In that light when outrageous demands appear people are more likely to take a step back, maybe even listen to the dissenters within their ranks and then look at other options.

[Krakrok]

I chock it up to the ASCN syndrome. A large old alliance starts getting pounded, can't take the heat, and dissolves.

[Nevermore]

So would it be safe to say BoB might end up a victim of Evolution? 

[Fordel]

Most 0.0 alliances don't actually belong in 0.0. A large part of BoB's previous success comes from defeating alliances that shouldn't have been there to begin with. Not to say BoB is without combat merit, they obviously are, it's that it just doesn't matter anymore.



Before the Goons, the game was stagnating heavily... and I Don't mean mechanically. It was the same group of people in 0.0, since the games initial launch. The Corp and Alliance names changed, but all the old friendships and grudges never did. The same players shifted around doing the same thing. There were 'rules' as to how things worked. I want to say the number of true newbs that made it to 0.0 for longer then a month is about the same percentage of the number of people who've killed Illidan in WoW currently (very, very small). It was very much the "Old boys club".

You were supposed to mine/mission/rat for the most expensive stuff you could afford, spend 3-6-12 months training buckets of skills, then you were supposed to go out and get slaughtered by players 2-10x's more powerful and established. After a year or so of that, one of the Old boys would take you in, and it would be your turn to kill the newbs.

Joining BoB was the reward for playing by the 'rules'. Your carebear alliance got curb stomped by BoB, but your reward for dieing to them repeatedly and chatting them up in local as you died, was being invited to join them, so you too could curb stomp the next carebear alliance.

Since there was no real new blood in EVE, this is how it worked, with the stubborn people all eventually falling into place with BoB or BoB like 'old boy' alliances and everyone else either quitting or going back to empire to rat once a week.




The Goons brought actually new blood to EVE, en mass. New Blood that's primary focus was to shit on any old and established rules of play. That is where the majority of the Goon Hate comes from. Thousands of players were "doing it wrong", they weren't paying their dues by training skills for a year then living in a shitty 0.0 alliance for another so they could have the chance to be taken in by one of the Old Boys once their original alliance got curb stomped. They were going around stomping on curbs in newbie ships, and they weren't going away. They weren't respecting K/D ratios, and weren't flying expensive stuff, or worse, they were flying expensive stuff, but using it like it was a newbie ship.

The original XZH (I think that was the system) where the goons stumbled onto a station to take, set the tone for the entire fleet. They were out classed, out gunned and out matched in about every respect by the 'traditional' rules of the game... but the Goons still owned the station. They died by the thousands, but the Goons still owned the station. They didn't have cap support, they barley had BShip support, but the Goons still owned the station. This went on for roughly a month, with the Goons doing everything "wrong" but still succeeding in the one area that actually mattered, which was them controlling the system and the station.

Eventually they got evicted, sheer force of numbers against them guaranteed that. Yet while they lost the battle, they won the war. They shit on the 'rules' and won. That was the most important thing about Goonfleet. They showed you didn't have to pay your dues to the old boys to be in 0.0, you just had to want it. Of course, it took a pre-established community of literal tens of thousands to do this... but it was done. The Old boys lost their real power then. The actual change was slow to go into effect, but it was done.


That's why BoB is doing so much worse these days. The perception of BoB has been changed and eroded by the Goons. Yes the Goons had help, lots and lots of help, but it was always the Goons as the focus, and it was the Goons that made the initial break in the Old Boy Image. Other alliances in 0.0 are coming to the realization, that it is no longer about 'who you know' but simply about 'what you can do'.

[Kamen]

Lot of truth to that.

Prior to the Goons changing the game, BoB being tactically superior could made up for their being strategically inept, coupled with being downright arrogant.  They can't get away with it any longer.  They also have enemies in spades having shit on friend and foe alike for years.

Ohh, and did I mention they're arrogant?  That's a great way to win friends and influence enemies.

[Merusk]

Fordel just wrote-out what I was talking around.  Thanks, Fordel!  Obviously, I agree.

[Raging Turtle]

Ohh, and did I mention they're arrogant? 

Understatement of the year.  As bad as the Goon posts are on COAD now (which is pretty fucking annoying), Bob was worse.  They were like the Yankees, if the Yankees came to your house and spit on your children every time they beat your team.  I still don't think BoB understands how much the larger community dislikes them, or why.