War

[Nevermore]

Why would they still be paying BoB at this point?  What, is BoB going to kick them out? 

[Kamen]

I was told today by an MC pilot that they have gone neutral.  Can anybody confirm or deny that rumor?

[Endie]

I was told today by an MC pilot that they have gone neutral.  Can anybody confirm or deny that rumor?

Who was he?  Do you trust him?  Have you known him long?  Was he a member of MC, not "|\/|C" ? Did he, at any point, say "Booyah, FNLN always gets his"?

It's hard to believe, but I would, as they say, lol.

Edit: Re Slayerik, Tri and roaming gangs, the idea of what Tri would do to the flabby refugee camp* which is Bob these days is hilarious.

*I know refugees don't tend to be flabby, ok.

[Kamen]

I can't remember his name, and I can't vouch for him.  For all I know he was just bullshitting me.  It was just a passing conversation I had with a bored member of MC talking about the war, the MPire switch, etc this morning before work.  I can say for sure that he is indeed a member of the real MC, I checked that.

I also find this difficult to believe, but it does make sense from a self preservation standpoint if MC leadership has come to the conclusion that with all of the recent side switching, and other turn of events, that it's all over for BoB.

If MC goes neutral this war is over.

[cmlancas]

Or does someone have to steal our titan fund to make you happy?    Dance goons!  Dance!   :-D

I think after the eve threads went past the lawsuit, the thread was too full of win for its own good.

That is the best e-drama I've ever read, ever.

[Slayerik]

After we take Cloud Ring, how about us TRI and the North band up and invade Fountain. Tonight we dine in Delve?  :)

Or hell, take Cloud Ring and tell Bob 6 billion a month and we won't back door ya!

[Arthur_Parker]

Two to three weeks before the north heads south?  The drama fallout from BoB is going to get real ugly, MC will decide their contract is finished and game over.

[Comstar]

I was told today by an MC pilot that they have gone neutral.  Can anybody confirm or deny that rumor?

Sounds like a Goonfleet pilot telling you he was in MC.

Although, if MC did declare victory vs IRAAAAC (as FIX is now safe and IAC is kicked back to the shallow end of Catch) and went home, BoB would live about 3 weeks beyond that announcement (and it would take about 3 *hours* for the BoB pets who arn't FIX to surrender to the nearest EveTV news crew).

Consider though I can't see RSF letting MC hold 0.0 space while BoB does I'd say it's not very crediable. MC just announced they killed an IAC Mothership and 4 carries, so I'd say no. 

[Endie]

Mittani posted some forum porn then yanked it again to read it on tonight's op, but i saw it before he did ;)  RISE are truely cascading now, with the leaders getting their stuff ready to evac and slagging off their overlords.

Amazingly, they are still paying rent to Bob.  They're trying to get their October rent back, but without success.  Paying rent for station systems only we are ratting in...   Awesome.

That said, surely Bob will come south to RIT this weekend to temporarily slap a stim patch on them.  After M.Pire they surely can't afford to let a fifth pet collapse in a month.

[Endie]

And here, free to repeat, it is.  First, here are the internal panickings of the RISE leadership in their private council discussions, as leaked by a director-level spy:

Originally Posted by Situation - Possible Evacuation
Situation - Possible full evac


Last night I was up pretty late talking to some bob guys. What i heard was not good nor much respect to be quite honest.

Quotes out of TS:

"RISE is pretty much fucked"
"Feythabolis atm is not the priority, will not be the priority for some time to come"
"What, i thought you guys left there already?"

LadyScarlet on the other hand thinks there were getting support to help us today, but as of last night she didnt know what kinda commitment they could honestly make.

Regardless of all of the hype bullshit, we got bigger issues. M.Pire flipped on BoB, joined Goonswarm and have been promised the RHG constellation if they help take it. With M.PIRE + Goons + TCF, the proverbial hammer is coming down on us.

Given our issue at present... we need to take full advantage of BOB coming down here today/tomorrow to get our caps / primary gear out of this area IMO. I absolutely hate the thought of this and honestly couldnt sleep much last night thinking about it as I stand to loose more than most of the corps in rise combined (14 billion in assets in RIT station alone, personal).

There are many things that piss me off about this whole situation, mainly having to do with bob, considering the amount of time in the last month i have spent bonusing their fleets (MC/BOB), providing basic FC tactics for some encounters to financially supporting several members directly in our own alliance to have it all loss... cause its not convienant for BOB.

The rental agreement was simple and I know BOB would be here to kick us out if we didnt hold our end of the bargin up, yet they have helped a few times but essentially have not helped us out of our situation. Given the RIT constellation is a solid ground to stand if you want to suppress/fight an agressor they seem to have it not in their best interest to defend against it, yet happily accept our 6 billion in rent.

Regardless of how things go from this point on, intill our area is purged of hostile towers, i would expect not one more red cent be sent to BOB.

ATM I think we should have a council post listing all corp / alliance assets that require immediate removal from the area as a contengancy to ensure the loss is reduced if/when this constellation falls, and we loose stations.

===

If we do have to move no one should hold a firesale.

Patience and a jumpclone will result in a lot more isk.

Otherwise perhaps we need to contact the leaders of BoB and find out what's up directly from them?


===

When last I talked to Molle I asked about the possibility of pulling back behind the lines, and I don't think he really understood the gravity of the situation. I stopped before saying, "RISE wants out of Feyth - find us a home," because I'm not sure that's what we wanted.

Is that what we want?

Whatever we do, be it ZS or farther - we need to do it in an organized fashion and we need to beat the crap out of the people who ignore the order.

===

Don't see how he can't see the gravity of the situation-- the fox is in the henhouse and the shotgun is about out of shells. We need a firm yes or no on support so we can plan accordingly.


If Friday is the last bit of help we are going to get-- Time to pack up what we can, and I think we then have to question our position-- we paid rent for invasion protection basically-- if we are driven out our landlord did not hold up their end of the agreement. Maybe we accept a temporary new home while we plan the next move, but it shouldnt be to pay BoB 6 bill a month.

===

This is disconcerting to say the least.

===

I don’t have my gaming laptop today with me @ work but we need someone communicating with BOB getting direct answers.

We need a assessment - worst case scenario on how fast the constellation will fall from this point today till final station.

POS / SOV experts chime in.

Facts:

P8 = Goon already SOV3
K-J, NLO, R4K = Goon SOV countering ours right now? When are the turn dates?
Once those systems fall we lose SOV 3, Capital in RIT

5P = is it out spammed yet?
GHZ = Loosing poses left and right
RIT = not touched, last to fall (2 weeks?)


===

Also worst case scenario, where do we temp relocate to?

I say ZS, since we can rent offices and have been given approval to drop towers in outlining area.

What are the logistics implications, what do they REALLY need to get what they can out of RHG Constellation?

Need logistics guys to chime in

Long-term plan?

Personally im done with rent, if we loose RHG I don’t see the point in re-renting from BOB, Period, its obvious they cant keep their end of the bargain.

Standings Reset?

Do we stay blue to BOB/MC? I like the some of the folks I have flown with in both alliances recently in FAT, but really don’t like the disrespect I receive on TS. Last night on TS, I was almost pissed enough to kill and pod 2 members in the gang I was in with them when they started disrespecting our alliance. I had to log off TS, because if I heard anymore, we would have a nasty blue on blue situation. I mean seriously!?, I logged in every day for the last 3 weeks to make sure their fleets had the option to get bonuses with 9.9 million s/p of leadership, max skirmish skills, in a command ship...giving them the little extra... i know its probably not that big of a deal to them, but I don’t think that’s the way you treat an ally that spent so much time helping them take FAT. RISE represent a small bunch of pilots up there, but they had some of our best PVP'ers assisting their efforts. Etil, Seb, Dhan (recon/probing genius, setting up countless kills for them), myself bonusing from FC spot, sdchew, ....the list goes on... very solid, heavy playtime pvp'ers up there helping...and the respect we get is "Looks like you guys are fucked"; "sorry dude, your not a priority"... That’s the quotes i was getting from TS from several bob/mc members last night?!?

Maybe I am taking it out of context, but the situation at hand does provide the comments with some serious merit.

Real damage assessment

Yes, our numbers have gone from 1250 to 800ish? What is the real impact, who have we lost? What are our current fleet capabilities? We still have the ability to field 30-50 pilots on any given night, that’s not huge by our old standards, but it’s enough to hold our own in a less hot situation. We have very good solid PVP players that have had absolute non-stop action for over 1 year now. Fighting with BOB/MC over last 3 weeks, i would put our RISE PVP pilots discipline wise up there with the best. Our pilots listen, TS for the most part is a solid exchange of intel/primary/secondary targets, pilots that know what to do in their given ship etc. We just lack the constant FC support we need.

Quoting a famous statement, I would rather lose a city then an army... We are reaching that situation and unless something changes extremely soon in a matter of 2 weeks we will be left with a unique situation, homeless.

===

If we pull back from RHG, I would suggest we pull back a hell of a lot farther than ZS-2LT. I've no problem continuing to stay in the GBC. But our logistics infrastructure isn't adequate enough to run a front line war this deep in 0.0 at this point.

I've no intention of ever going blue to Goonswarm.

===

I agree with Falryx - stay with BoB, but if we pull out we pull WAAAY out. We're beat to hell, pulling out is going to cost us morale, pilots and ships. Staying on the front lines after that will mean the end of us.

Also - Lucius, alot of the BoB FCs are just FCs. They're full of crap about the big picture and RISE. Unless it's coming from Dian or Molle, I'd just laugh it off.

What specific questions do you need me to ask Molle/Dian?

===

Both Mortania and I have plans to keep jump clones in core to liquidate assets should we lose it. However, those plans are long term (no need to sell stuff to the bad guys for cheap). I have over 1b of personal assets there, and I know Carbide as alot of t1 stuff there as well.

===

I need to keep in touch with you guys Doal. I may use you to liquidate assets in the future. Thats good to know.

===

To be honest, I would suggest we focus alot on RR stuff if we lose core and thus have no home. The alternative is we could go after another of the coalition alliances. For example, we could go after CVA or one of their pets. Or we could invade some goon territory. Or we could go to someplace like stain and have fun there.

Either way, I think the best way to rebuild is to do PvP that doesn't require POS spamming and let's us pick the time and place to fight. If anything sucked our morale it was having to fight when we weren't ready for it and having to pay high taxes and deal with hordes of fuel.

Oh, if we lose core I suggest we lower the alliance tax significantly as well.

===

Very simple, lok

IF BOB is going to keep their agreement and push back GS out of our current situation. Period ... can they anwser that?

------------

If they can not anwser that, then today/tomorrow will still go on, but its going to be matched with us pulling everything we can out of RHG Constellation. Once the system is secure with BOB/MC support, we use that time to get our pilots to dock, get anything not tied down out that they feel like taking. Freighter TITAN jump out the bulk of what we can. I have a freighter in CORE and clonejumped moral back down to pilot it.

Where to go after that? Is there any other 2 station combo's that have Refinery + Production? I guess we could just get acustom to do all of that from POS.


===

All my assets from 2+ years of play are in RHG, and I'm not planning to pull them out. It would be nice if we could rep cloning and repair facilities at all three stations before we leave, so people can at least update clones and repackage ships/mods.

I will make it my mission to kill Goons and KOS wherever possible. But, if we are left hanging by BloB, you won't believe my thread on COAD until you read it.

P.S. I've sent two notes now asking for our OCT rent back. ATM I think Purge and Lokesh need to get in on the act.

===

Agreed. If this weekend is not the beginning of a full scale commitment from BoB for Feythabolis, we need to withdraw. We cannot withstand TCF, Goon and M.Pire. This is either FAT Part 2, or we need clearance to withdraw.

If we withdraw, I agree with Doal - let's get out to some place where we don't have to play POS games to stay alive. We will need time to get our logistics back in shape recover from having to pull out, etc. If we pull out of RHG, we should assume that RISE, as a going concern, will be largely ineffectual for up to 2 months while we get sorted out.

I know I'll be docking one of my alts at RIT for long term sales as well.

===


Quote:
Very simple, lok

IF BOB is going to keep their agreement and push back GS out of our current situation. Period ... can they anwser that? 

Very simple, lok

IF BOB is going to keep their agreement and push back GS out of our current situation. Period ... can they anwser that?


===

I have 6 alts docked in RIT all with 50 sell orders... so the 14billion in goods will be sold over a very long time.

Alumar -

31 fitted ships including 10 ravens, 4 rigged

Moral -

12 fitted ships, including 8 fully rigged
1 freighter
1 transport t2 ship with 2x T2 cargo rigs, 1.5 billion ship
191 bpo's (t1), most researched, all bs, all bc, all c, all destroyers, all ammo types
over 700 implants ranging from +1's to full sets of +4's to be sold
5 billion in t2 modules for resell

Lucius -

5 ships

===

If BoB is committed to helping, the question we need answered is when can we expect support to kick Goons out of P8. P8 is the key-- had we not lost Sov there Goons could not have put up a jump bridge. If BoB will not help clean out P8... then we need to pull out of RHG with what we can get. P8 is what keeps the Goons and friends in business in core.

===

Seriously P8 is our 100% entire mistake though repeated desperate and desperate call for arms to hit those towers in p8 after KOS invasion, but well people were already moving away or not dotting anymore though PL was not really ACTIVE at that time

IMO this alliance is dead and we are only staying in 0.0 thanks to the hardwork of 50 people at maximum.

===

Well this is a council? Do we vote to use the BOB cover to get out or help fight for the constellation?

- I vote for fight if bob can substain a presence in the area - But this will completely change if M.Pire + KOS + TCF wants our area... cause quite frankly im not worried about goons, their already stretched thin, but M.PIRE does not have a home and is looking for one, plus they used to live in our core. STK based out of here.

===

I am not sure BoB would be pleased to see us doing full evac, but at this point having assets in Core is a huge problem. Better leave pos and fuel them and have all assets secured somewhere else.

so yes i'm for BoB covering our get out after we fight friday. That will depend of them anyway.


===
Yep, without 100% allied attention, I think we need to withdraw.

===

Its the least they can do for use given the situation.

At least lock down system so we can have pilots undock and get their stuff to a POS for carrier jump or something. I am meming starbase tactical 3 on Lucius atm, alumar has level 4, hopefully i can control 7 guns @ one of the REZ towers in RIT. I will make a final stand in RIT with my characters @ a POS and make it a nasty final horah

===

You have to look at things from Bob's perspective. (Well you don't have to but it helps to understand)

RISE kept Feyth tied up for 9 months. (Thanks! but what can you do for me now?)
MC finished the North off. (Great job!)
MC & FIX pushed into Catch while Bob was fighting an attrition war in 9-9 area. (Stalled in Fat area)
MC want Bob's full forces focused on Catch so they are not fighting the brunt of the war solo as they don't have the numbers the enemy does. (With focus Bob winning)

Given a choice of loosing Rise or MC as an Allie in this war who would you pick?
Exactly why were not high priority. It sucks to be us.

I do not think Bob will cover us if were moving out... again sucks to be us.

===

I have to agree with Rile: If BloB learns that we're leaving, I don't think they'll do a thing to cover a withdrawal. If they couldn't get their shit together to help out with something as simple as freighter bridging when it mattered, why would they put combat assets in harm's way to keep us from being hammered on the way out?

From everything I've seen so far, BloB proper is nothing but a pack of snotty, disloyal pricks. The only thing they have going for them is that the Goons are worse.

===

We need a final decision fast. If tomorrow is our last chance to get caps out i want my guys to take it.
I have just held a poll an the unanimous decision by Loki is get our caps and blueprints out but stay and fight. But if Rise is gonna pull out we need to know now.

===

enough with the drama. you will still have time to put contracts up if you need to. concentrate on the immeadiate, which is alliance ops which are posted and have been alliance mailed.

stay positive. if you could not of afforded losing it you should not have had it out here anyway. this friday needs as much positive support for/of our military as possible. this council need not deliberate the severity of the situation. it needs to rally our member to support.

this is just another day, in many days of the war.

===

It needs to do both of these things. We need to understand the severity of the situation quite clearly so we can take an appropriately long point of view on our objectives. It also needs to ensure member support is present and rallied.

Being prepared is a virtue, not a vice.
===

Hang on a sec just about every post i am seeing is about pulling out!!!

And as for if you cant afford it you shouldnt have it here............... (edited for politeness)

If there was a proper plan in place then i wouldnt be asking the damn question!!!!!

And if the council does not discuss the severity of the situation then who the hell is going to? sticking our heads in the sand is not going to help. My corp is prepared to fight but i give my corp a clear idea on what is going on so they know what we are discussing.

===

I suspect purge is trying to say, "Don't Panic".

It's okay for us to be prepared and talk frankly. There's naturally concern that some of this will get leaked to the enemy and splattered across their forums. So the question is whether or not we choose to risk that in discussions like this.

The core question is, as it has always been: Are BoB going to support Feythabolis in the near future?

If that answer is 'yes' then great. If that answer is 'no' then we need to understand the potential ramifications and be prepared for 'em.

===

I'd think we have 3 priorities on friday.

First save and rep all towers that are coming out of reinforced,
Second deploy POS's in r4k and k-j,
Third remove BPO's and non esential assets from core.

For the final thing to happen, we are going to need to rep the repair facilities in one of the stations.

These will hopefully allow us to maintain core for longer, at a lesser risk to ourselves.

Also BoB knows that they haven't gained any space from the goons/RA since supercaps got changed. It should be a priority for them to keep core in friendly hands as they may never get it back if it isn't kept by us.

===

I think we're situated as well as we can be for the immediate needs. We have a plan for Friday, our logistics angels are passing out additional POSs to hold onto sov a little longer.

We need to make sure we're hauling fuel and strontium for the new POSs to operate as long as possible.

Beyond that, the question is "Will the GBC provide a constant presence in Feyth to combat Goons/TCF/M.Pire/etc?" The response needs to be a solid yes or no. I'm attempting to get this for you all.

Beyond that - it seems we all think that if the answer is "Yes," then we stay, fight and (hopefully) win. If the answer is, "No," we need to have a plan for an orderly withdrawal. Additionally, if seems we want to maintain our friendship with BoB and our allies.

...the next question becomes...

How far back? - Again, it seems people think ZS is a decent stage, but that RISE needs safe pastures behind the frontline to fix alot of issues.

So that leaves us with two sides to discuss:

If the answer is, "Yes."
What preparations do we need to make to continue the fight here?
What needs to be accomplished logistically?
What specific instructions, if any, does the Council have for Lucius?

If the answer is, "No."
How do we move in an organized fashion that minimizes loss?
Do we have a specific location we want to request residence in?
Once moved - what is our plan for rebuilding and coming back to the fight stronger?

Obviously, the farther in the future we talk, the more vague the questions become. However, we've moved past the big choice (or so it seems) and these are the questions to tackle and be prepared for.

(And yes, Purge is right - don't panic, and don't talk about how you're going to sell your corp/personal assets... these are personal/corp items, not the Council.)

===

Bob has confirmed they are coming down today and tomorrow to support us with the brunt of their might. Can 50 active pilots maintain a presence and break through and live this thing out with there support.

- BTW bob is conv me in mIRC, whats the Password for 5-1 POS?

===

Well, I just checked the following TS servers: BoB, DFC, RISE. Nobody appears to be moving into our area. Which actually includes us, our TS is dead. RIT local is at 14, 3 of which are hostile. Am I missing something?

===

Our FC online at 2000 could not confirm a POS PW in 5p- for the bob fleet to jump to, resulting in nothing happening.

just hope we can do a better job tommorrow.

And here, by way of contrast, is what they telll their members at the same time:

All speculations should be directed at your CEO's/DIR's.

If they don't know, then ask the minister that is most involved(FA/War/Finance... and so on).

But most things that would be answered by speculation is a known entity by your CEO.

Is Unkie BoB leaving us high and dry? nope.

Does Unkie BoB know what's going on? Yup.

Will Unkie BoB help out at all? Yup.

When will it happen? HAH Thought I'd post that here? Your CEO will know, and will keep it quiet. That's called Operational Security. Or OpSec. Means you only know if you have a need to know.

The Future will be bright for any corp that keeps fighting, keeps people playing, keeps the YARRPEWPEW going.



==================

BEFORE YOU READ ANY FURTHER. THE FOLLOWING MAY CONTAIN FATAL DOSE OF TRUTH

CONTACT ME PERSONALLY IN-GAME FOR ANY AND ALL QUERRY. Before you do so, make sure you have more than an hour to talk. Because I'm going to preach.




ok. about the "omg we're doomed.. RUNZOR!!!" attitude. It's has gotta end.

I will address this issue at an alliance level with all the respect, and integrity in my heart as a RISE pilot. Once.

- BoB is not leaving RISE behind. Nor will they do any other of their allies. Why am I so certain? Quite frankly, if you don't see the big picture and figure it out by your-damn-selves. You need to stop panicking, calm your-damn-selves down, and take a step back from the Goons Billboard they put right in front of your face and try to get a better look at the damn situation the entire war is evolved around.

- I've tried my damnest, and in turn, failed miserably, to understand the crumbling morale, the grim faces, the unbearable whines, the lack of will to fight.

+ You tell me it's a year of constant fighting. I've been there 7 months of that year, before that I fought RA/TCF/Goons in insmother/wicked creek for months to have the very stations I've poured every last drop of my isk into defending sold out right under my nose by ppl like yourselves in leadership positions.

+ You tell me it's the other guys. I've seen the other guys, I've heard about them, I've stopped giving a fuck about them. I contribute what I can to this cause. And I keep doing it till I'm completely exhausted, finacially, physically, and mentally. What the "other guys" do or don't do don't concern me at the least. I'm giving it my all. And what do I get in return? Fun. I don't expect to earn a damn thing playing a game. I play it for fun. Why do I want to let somebody else prevent me from doing it?

+ You tell me it's coz you can't make no money to fight with. I've fought for an entire week without having enough money to upgrade my own clone. I've seen the content of my personal wallet, my corp mates personal wallets, my corperate wallet poured into this cause without a split second of hesitation.

+ You tell me you don't know anything. Nobody talks to you and tell you what to do. Sir, as a matter of fact, we do. We tell you what to do every day of the week. We tell you to get into a gang with your fellow alliance mate and act like a RISE pilot. We tell you to stop asking stupid questions like secured intelligence on the public forum (granted that it isn't public, but it isn't uncommon that we see what's written here being ripped, copied and pasted on to COAD for the world to see). Yes Sir, Goons are reading this message too! (@Goons spies: Quote me if yo mama didn't use a condom)

It's all fucking excuses. Excuses are like asshole, everybody has to have one. And I certainly don't wanna see yours.

That's said. And in the nicest way I can possibly find.

Are you seriously asking me, "does BoB know that RIT triangle is important?" and "does BoB know what us RISE have tried and lost for their causes?"

==================

I also am tired of the whining, and to put the answer as simply as I have noticed it ...

PL, GoonSwarm, TCF, KOS, UL and the rest have not won a strategic victory in core YET! Winning the tactical battle atm does nothing for their position except clean our house of carebears and useless dead weight thereby strengthening our alliance as long as we keep our morale up! That is our job and one not to be entered into lightly. Myself, I enjoy being a RISE pilot I look up to our 'old breed' of pilots while putting forth my best effort to maintain the standards they set and RISE that bar higher for the ones that will follow me. Come on people you want info ask your corpmates, they don't respond shake their trees. If that does not work maybe leaving for a more active RISE corp will. If that still doesn't make you happy I guess you have just become a goonie casualty in their war on us. The enemy is using their most efficient logistical attack on us WORDS, PERIOD! If they we hold out in our hearts they cannot defeat our minds. If you leave or get fed up and do nothing, then YOU have been beat by a goon brain. Think on that my friends and I hope to see each and every one of my fellow RISE pilots on my wing as soon as possible, whether in core, feythabolis, catch, providence, or wherever our enemies dare tread when we come calling !

This is my speculation on our future !

==================

Painful?

Trying?

WTF Rise???

IT'S PVP! WHOOHOOO!

Grit yer teeth and get a piece! evil

==================

We are still here!

This War will end when RA/Goons are dead and defeated, not a minute before. We can win this war. Never forget that when the war started D2 was one of the largest alliances in the game. They are no more. They didn’t just lose ground, they folded. LV also died in the first round of war to the sheer numbers that Goons threw at them. Rise stood shoulder to shoulder with our allies through every battle of this great conflict. Bob pushed Goons back and almost broke them, but game mechanics diminished the power of titans in controlling fleet size. We are now back to fleet size not skill mattering. Through it all, Rise is STILL HERE. For 9 months we have been told that we couldn’t last out here. We would be gone in 30 days, 3 months, 4 months. Yet, here we are STILL HERE. We have had our sovereignty challenged at least 3 times. We have defended ourselves against at least 7 alliances who can muster far in excess of Rise’s 900. Yet, here we are STILL HERE.

We know we could never stand up to there overwhelming odds. Yet, we have and we are STILL HERE. History is replete with the courageous who put principle and determination ahead of sheer numbers and might. The Spartans were outmanned 100’s to 1 and they knew they couldn’t stand up to the Persians. Yet, they stood their ground and exacted a heavy Persian price. Yes, we might lose systems, sovereignty and stations, but nobody can take your pride of accomplishment or your will to fight. Only you can give up those things. No Goon can ever take that from you and I will never permit a Goon to take mine. They may take RIT, but they will NOT take it without a fight. And if they take it, I will carry the fight to whatever front is next. I have my pride and I am stubborn and my pride demands I shove my foot up their “eye of terror”.

Who else will stand with me and let them know we are STILL HERE?


==================

I'm pretty sure we can hold out till a Goonswarm member actually has sex with a real life woman...so that gives us at least another year or so? Isn't that right Mr. Goony spy? Post that on Caod please for me.

p.s. Goons slob on my knob !


Love,

Beef

P.S. The Mittani sends his regards.

[Comstar]

BoB can't afford to stop attacking IAC (they saw a chance to take F4, the entrance to IAC Homeland, and will be busy taking that). Conclusion: RISE dies this weekend.

Is the lost presumed but never seen failure cascade of BoB pets? How many would be left?

[Simond]

There's another three or four smaller alliances between (what's left of) RISE/CORM & Delve. The question is whether they'll figure out that BoB really isn't coming to help them after what's happening at the moment & M.Pire's sudden epiphany and then surrender/evacuate/etc. or if they keep funneling their 6bn/month to BoB for the privilege of acting as a speedbump & getting their alliances killed.

IMO, RISE are the most significant southern pet to kill - and that's only because of the RIT triangle being such a PITA to capture (and too strong a position to merely bypass) rather than any sort of actual player prowess in RISE.

[Endie]

I can remember Executive Outcome, ISS and Digital Renegades as being left down in the south after Rise, as well as Sphere and Stain.  DR is only 300 or so people. Executive Outcomes are down from 600 to 400 members.  ISS are recruiting like mad amongst the failed pets and are up to 750 members, but have a hilarious track record of failure, as well as being obsessed with their resources instead of PvP.   That hardly guarantees that they will fight to the last ISK.  They have sov 4, though, so game mechanics dictate that they will take a while to grind down.

Sphere are the capable Hungarian guys, aren't they?  Only a couple of hundred of them at best, though, which isn't much against us when Bob have shown themselves disinterested in honouring their rental agreements.  I don't even know which (if any) side Stain are on, which says a lot.  There are quiet a few of them, though.

Last night in the RIT triangle was fun, doing a Roy of CA in local on the rare occasions that a Rise member turned up: "Person of Rise!  You have been lied to by your increasingly demoralised and dwindling band of leaders!  Lay down your weapons and approach the nearest goon fleet, where you will be treated with mercy.  We have plentiful veldspar and working cloning facilities!"

[cmlancas]

Your wife and your children are dead, GI!

Thanks Endie. I asked, you delivered. :)

[Slayerik]

Some juicy shit right there. How are the firesales in RIT these days? Hot and heavy??

[Endie]

Some juicy shit right there. How are the firesales in RIT these days? Hot and heavy??

I persuaded a guy in RIT last night that I was Remedial... he wasn't very clued up.  He convoed me and offered to pay me to get safe passage and an escort for his CNR, 3xraven blueprints, Charon, carrier and other shit.

I was within an inch of persuading him to contract it at discount to me while putting the BPOs in the CNR and undocking to receive his "special" escort (I told him I would set him to +10, personally, so long as he left Rise) when our fleet commander demanded to be allowed in on the chat.  Said FC, in a fit of grasping greed for a Chimera, then fucked up the deal.  The anguished wails as he warped to a safe to be be escorted targeted by 50 goons in max-dps pos-shotting battleships would have been beautiful to hear.  The guy is now in an NPC corp in a Rise station under siege, however.  I'd love to hear him explain that to his corp CEO.  If said CEO logged in.

Edit:  Another guy called "Mr Fatty" logged in and said in local "um, I was in ASCN and haven't logged in for a while, who is in charge here now?"  Unlucky.  Some harsh bastard podded him while we were giving him a headstart, so we sent him cash and apologies.  I wanted to conga in his honour.

Every single service on every station is down, from cloning to fitting to repairing.  Almost all of them have been down for weeks.  If your clone is set to a station where you cannot renew it, and which is almost certainly going to fall soon to people who will in all likelihood never set you blue to evac, then you are in a very bad place.

[cmlancas]

Aren't you Remedial?

 :-D

[Sparky]

Aren't you Remedial?

 :-D

Oh man that's cold.

Every single service on every station is down, from cloning to fitting to repairing.  Almost all of them have been down for weeks.  If your clone is set to a station where you cannot renew it, and which is almost certainly going to fall soon to people who will in all likelihood never set you blue to evac, then you are in a very bad place.

Most likely they join one of GS's pubbie friends a la the mass -v- defection to CA.

Those logs make me feel sorry for RISE, even the craven-BoB-enabling-pets-that-makes-NORAD-look-like-a-glorious-golden-age-RISE.  Man the membership really got lead up shit creek on that one and I don't think they really appreciate that yet.

[Sparky]

I really hope M. Pire gets some decent space off GS, that'd be a PR coup to nicely round off the week.  Do we know what their plans are for sure?  I've read different things on Scrapheap, CAOD and elsewhere. 

[Slayerik]

Im really hoping The North gets involved and I can meet the Goonies 'in the middle'. :)

[Endie]

Im really hoping The North gets involved and I can meet the Goonies 'in the middle'. :)

Yeah, if it all goes as planned and we eventually dispose of Bob it would be nice to have a neighbour we don't hate, but who wants a war of gangs and fights instead of lagfleets and staring at POSes.

[Slayerik]

Im really hoping The North gets involved and I can meet the Goonies 'in the middle'. :)

Yeah, if it all goes as planned and we eventually dispose of Bob it would be nice to have a neighbour we don't hate, but who wants a war of gangs and fights instead of lagfleets and staring at POSes.

You'd have the right neighbors for that then!

Cept we are a buncha nanofags. Probably due to the Northerners love of ze blob.


Guess we can hope for the best!

[Endie]

Is it true that Outbreak and Evoke are both attacking Fountain at the moment?

[LC]

Yeah, if it all goes as planned and we eventually dispose of Bob it would be nice to have a neighbour we don't hate, but who wants a war of gangs and fights instead of lagfleets and staring at POSes.

The problem is that goons need a gang of 50 to engage a gang of 5. That's why "lagfleets" became the norm.

[Krakrok]

The problem is that goons need a gang of 50 to engage a gang of 5. That's why "lagfleets" became the norm.

Consequently, the art of using troops is this: When ten to the enemy's one, surround him. When five times his strength, attack him. If double his strength, divide him. If equally matched, you may engage him with some good plan. If weaker numerically, be capable of withdrawing. And if in all respects unequal, be capable of eluding him, for a small force is but booty for one more powerful if it fights recklessly. -- Sun Tzu

[MahrinSkel]

Now if we see double numbers prove such a weight in the scale against the greatest Generals, we may be sure, that in ordinary cases, in small as well as great combats, an important superiority of numbers but which need not be over two to one, will be sufficient to ensure the victory, however disadvantageous other circumstances may be.... The first rule is therefore to enter the field with an Army as strong as possible. This sounds very like a commonplace, but still it is really not so.

Clausewitz, On War

Happened to have it up in another window.

--Dave

[Endie]

The problem is that goons need a gang of 50 to engage a gang of 5. That's why "lagfleets" became the norm.

You would know how hilarious this is, coming from a member of Bob, if you had actually been involved in any of the recent fights.

[Simond]

I was told today by an MC pilot that they have gone neutral.  Can anybody confirm or deny that rumor?

I've seen versions of this rumour in a couple of other places in the last few days, ususally along the lines of "MC has had enough so they're going to declare 'Mission Accomplished' Real Soon Now then go back to their space & set everybody neutral". Either someone is being very busy with the propaganda, or there might just be a kernel of truth in it.

Fun MC rumour no. 2: BoB paid MC with FIX's most profitable moon-mining chain for September. For October, MC asked to be paid in T2 BPOs...and BoB accepted.

Edit: Heh, timing!

Our contract to secure Querious and help spearhead the assault into Catch is at an end.

Querious is firmly in the hands of the Firmus Ixion alliance.

Four stations in lower Catch have been taken by BoB with a fifth in F4R changing hands just as soon as the sov ticker finishes clicking.

Quick stats - Over the last eighty days the MC has participated in and inflicted over 400 billion ISK in just ship hull damage on our targets. Chief among these are:

Class / Kills / Losses

Battleship / 1218 / 78
Carrier / 50 / 5
Dreadnought / 40 / 2
Mothership / 2 / 1
Titan / 0 / 1

IAC / Catch Contract (Beer Bad)

Querious Defense to Present

With the exception of a three and a half week pause, the MC has been on the warpath since the 25th of January this year. We have also been under near continuous war time operation since we entered Querious on the 25th of July. We are now retiring from offensive operations (but will defend our home territories aggressively if invaded) and are on vacation pending new offers of employment.

Please address all offers of short or long term employment to Dri Kulsane and Mynas Atoch (I’m mining while working on a more uber campaign report).


PS: Hope this is okay to post here (only one way to find out!). SHC > COAD

[Kamen]

Yep, looks as if the rumor was indeed true.  They fought right up to the last day, and have now pulled out and are setting everyone to neutral.  Headed home and resting up, defending themselves if necessary.

Seeing as how that rumor panned out I'll pass along another I heard ..... I have been told they declined a recent BoB offer and are in negotiations with the goons, but require a rest before anything is finalized.

Couched in the terms of a "mission accomplished" report the real message here is "you're on your own BoB".  Might take a while to tidy up, but with the MPire flip and MC on the sidelines (and maybe later on the Goon side) the BoB as we know it is finished IMO.

Expect more BoB pet flips soon.

[Endie]

I have nothing against MC if they are prepared to demonstrate genuine neutrality.  A lot of goons want them dead, due to the close ties between them and Bob, but I've always thought that our goal should be the annihilation of Bob, and that we should pursue that singlemindedly, even if that means accomodations with those traditionally aligned with Bob.

I like that we have shown what happens to those that resist (Rise, Corm, Soco, Sparta, Fatal, Cow and several others, not counting Tri  with YW) but have balanced that with what happens to those who detach themselves from the bob side (M.Pire being the obvious example).  Since Sun Tzu is getting quoted, he tells us that leaving an exit helps beat enemies better than forcing them to fight to the death.

It's the traditional siege warfare thing practised by everyone from the Macedonians to the 30 years war: give people the chance to surrender.  But force them to realise that as soon as the battering ram hits the gate then their fate is assured.  You see, Eve is a lot like the siege of Tyre...

Pragmatism ftw.  No trolling MC here, Vile Rat.

[Reg]

So what happens to people like FIX once BoB is gone? I'm just assuming that they're going to ride the sinking ship all the way to the bottom...

[Endie]

So what happens to people like FIX once BoB is gone? I'm just assuming that they're going to ride the sinking ship all the way to the bottom...

I dunno.  The thing with Rise is that they're on our doorstep.  So when one of the directors says he offered them surrender terms a couple of weeks ago which their directors refused then that's presumably because they were our targets.  Fix is probably not in our sphere of influence.

As I see it, the real trouble for Fix is that they've been willingly acting as a staging post for Bob's attacks on IAC and AAA, with the intention of wiping out at least the former in their entirety.  I don't imagine that that is a good grounds for much other than total eviction back to empire in return.  Yes, they were attacked first.  But victors' justice doesn't tend to be fair that way.

[Fordel]

Seeing as how that rumor panned out I'll pass along another I heard ..... I have been told they declined a recent BoB offer and are in negotiations with the goons, but require a rest before anything is finalized.

That sounds like a trap, one so obvious, it may just work in the end. Goons don't have much choice either way, they have to show good faith on such things unless they want to fight MC down to the last shuttle.

I can already see the EVE-O posts now though "We would never betray our true allies for Goons!" after they explode a goon titan or something silly.

[Drogo]

Yeah, FIX is pretty much forced to go down with the BoB ship because they will be wiped out after the war by AAA, IAC and perhaps the Old North even if RSF let them be. The rest of BoB's allies should start dropping like flies though. Without MC or MPire the GBC has lost a serious amount of capital ships to put in the fight.

I would expect alliances like ISS and AA to start dropping as soon as RSF gets near their territory or starts to attack them directly. Any smart BoB pet would be moving all of their assets to Empire now rather than waiting for the assault to happen and hope for BoB to save them like RISE did.

If BoB can hold the GBC together they can easily last another six to eight months, but if failure cascade sets in with the majority of their pets or BoB has infighting and morale problems they might collapse much sooner.

[Simond]

RISE give up on their 'Core' (the RIT triangle):

this is an official post

All your CEOs are or will shortly be aware of what is going on.

Instructions are to be taken from your CEOs / Your corp forum when your CEO will post any order for your corporation

Get all your assets out of ANY CORE station. 5P is not definitly lost, BoB took back control of it tonight so we can get your sensitive assets secured.

Rally safe point for assets will be RIT pos. Do not leave your ship there in pos, because pos pass may be compromised anytime. Log off in the ship you want to keep.

Basically all non critical assets should be left behind, whatever happen next.

We are withdrawing from Core in short, and BoB will cover this retreat.

The fight is not over we will bring it elsewhere, and may come back when stronger.

It is time to help us each other, and to make sure that none are left behind our next move.
-Coolgamer

This is, of course, only being sent out to the rank & file members of RISE after RISE management got to evac everything they own already. Shinra's leaders did pretty much the same thing to LV, iirc.

Oh, and PL/Blackops have moved on already to their next target, who are already complaining about not being able to rat or mine.

Cherry on the top: Where are RISE retreating to? Fountain. Have fun, TRI.  :-D

(Edit: Assuming that RISE even last that long - 0utbreak & ev0ke are attacking Exuro Mortis in Fountain at the moment, and M.Pire are rumoured to be moving in there as well. 0utbreak attacking a BoB pet is certainly interesting to see).

Speaking of TRI: YouWhat seem to have found a way to stall TRI, at least for the moment - set up their cyno-jammer POSes with a full battery of medium artillery, have people manning the guns, shoot any TRI BS that show up. How long they'll be able to keep it up is open to question, though.