NFL 2015

[sickrubik]

Bengals vs Packers: Both have defenses playing great football. On the offensive side, one has Rodgers the other has Dalton.

Bengals vs Patriots: Patriots defense is solid, Bengals is arguably a lot better. On the offensive side, one has Brady, the other has Dalton.

Bengals vs Panthers: Push defense wise, probably. One has Newton, the other has Dalton.

Bengals vs Broncos: Broncos D better. Dalton playing a lot better than Manning right now.

I'd probably put them at: Patriots, Packers, Bengals, Panthers, Broncos (from best to "worst").

[K9]

Problem isn't solely Peyton. And when they DO let Peyton be Peyton, stuff works... until DT drops a critical ball.

Things are starting to come together. The O-Line performed a lot better this week and we started to establish a running game. Mind you, it was against the 30th ranked Running defense, but given the complete lack of ability the previous weeks, I still see it as a vast improvement. Keep in mind we've also done this mostly on the road. 4/6 games have been on the road.

Not all Peyton's fault, but his arm/shoulder isn't what it used to be and A LOT of his balls are wobbly garbage. When the cold weather makes the ball harder to control/grip, these are going to become a real problem.

Given that he has no sensation in his fingertips I'd say that his body is already in January form

[Hoax]

Bengals vs Packers: Both have defenses playing great football. On the offensive side, one has Rodgers the other has Dalton.

Bengals vs Patriots: Patriots defense is solid, Bengals is arguably a lot better. On the offensive side, one has Brady, the other has Dalton.

Bengals vs Panthers: Push defense wise, probably. One has Newton, the other has Dalton.

Bengals vs Broncos: Broncos D better. Dalton playing a lot better than Manning right now.

I'd probably put them at: Patriots, Packers, Bengals, Panthers, Broncos (from best to "worst").

I'd put Broncos ahead of Panthers myself.

[Merusk]

Their defense is crazy good, but I still doubt both Dalton and Marvin Lewis. Both shit the bed at the worst possible times.

It's the tradition of all Cincinnati team leadership for the last 23 years. Professional AND Collegiate.  Get to playoffs, turn into mush-brain. Repeat.

In the upcoming weeks I look for the traditional losses for no goddamn reason other than, "Oh, division game? Time to nap" to the Browns and Steelers. Then probably one to the Rams and finally to the Ravens in January because, once again, "LOL DIVISION GAME."

Not that I haven't been subjected to this same level of play from both of Paul Brown's teams my whole life or anything...

[Paelos]

San Francisco isn't even playing actual football. This is embarrassing.

[Trippy]

I just pretend they don't have a football team anymore (haven't watched any of their games this season).

[Shannow]

Not enough Hayne plane!

[Mithas]

I never thought Kaepernick was a great QB, but how did he go from being pretty good to absolutely terrible? Just because they don't let him run anymore? Their offense is pretty much the same it has been the past few years. I can't figure out why they haven't benched him.

[WayAbvPar]

The Seahawks are garbage and that wasn't even close. Yikes.

[sickrubik]

Just because they don't let him run anymore?

Their line is sucking and yes, they aren't letting him run anymore. They are forcing him into a system that doesn't fit him.

[HaemishM]

The Seahawks are garbage and that wasn't even close. Yikes.

I didn't watch because I knew this would be true.

How did Kap become so bad? 1) No more Jim Harbaugh. Harbaugh may be a complete fucking douche (and he is) but he knows how to turn shitty/marginal players into good ones. 2)Kap unfortunately got too big too early in his career and I don't think he was prepared for the work required to progress. Take away the O-line that was protecting, the offensive coaching that gave him opportunities to succeed, force him to stay in the pocket instead of designing an offense around him running and let the entire league figure out how to cut down on his ability to run, and suddenly he needs to be a better QB who makes good decisions and reads defenses. He doesn't have the coaches that can teach him that shit and Harbaugh's offense made it so that he didn't have to do that shit. 3) Get rid of Michael Crabtree and watch Vernon Davis's skills deteriorate and remove Frank Gore as a pass blocker and suddenly he has few options to throw to, no extra blocking to protect him and he can't scramble.

Kap was never a good enough passer to deal with all of those things happening, and under Harbaugh, he mostly didn't have to be. Tomsula seems to have about as much head coaching ability as the janitor he looks like. Face it, Niner fans. This is your present and future under the shitgoblins you have running this organization. It could be worse. They could finally pull the trigger and put Blaine Gabbert under center.  

[Trippy]

It's okay we're used to it. Harbaugh was but a brief respite from the Yorks' reign of terror.

[01101010]

The Seahawks are garbage and that wasn't even close. Yikes.

I didn't watch because I knew this would be true.

How did Kap become so bad? 1) No more Jim Harbaugh. Harbaugh may be a complete fucking douche (and he is) but he knows how to turn shitty/marginal players into good ones. 2)Kap unfortunately got too big too early in his career and I don't think he was prepared for the work required to progress. Take away the O-line that was protecting, the offensive coaching that gave him opportunities to succeed, force him to stay in the pocket instead of designing an offense around him running and let the entire league figure out how to cut down on his ability to run, and suddenly he needs to be a better QB who makes good decisions and reads defenses. He doesn't have the coaches that can teach him that shit and Harbaugh's offense made it so that he didn't have to do that shit. 3) Get rid of Michael Crabtree and watch Vernon Davis's skills deteriorate and remove Frank Gore as a pass blocker and suddenly he has few options to throw to, no extra blocking to protect him and he can't scramble.

Kap was never a good enough passer to deal with all of those things happening, and under Harbaugh, he mostly didn't have to be. Tomsula seems to have about as much head coaching ability as the janitor he looks like. Face it, Niner fans. This is your present and future under the shitgoblins you have running this organization. It could be worse. They could finally pull the trigger and put Blaine Gabbert under center.  

For a brief moment, I thought you were talking about RGIII. It's like the monkey has said, there is a huge issue with college spread offense QBs coming into the league. This is just more evidence of that.

[HaemishM]

The spread is killing the QB position, as well as apparently offensive lines. It's a vile, goddamn abomination.

[Chimpy]

The spread is killing the QB position, as well as apparently offensive lines. It's a vile, goddamn abomination.

And it is spreading to high schools. Watching my friends' kids play high school ball on a team that is "pass centric" (ie spread) is kinda painful. And they have a QB who is a D1 prospect (which is part of why they run the spread shit).

[01101010]

The spread is killing the QB position, as well as apparently offensive lines. It's a vile, goddamn abomination.

The spread doesn't require a standard blocking scheme or pocket structure so they throw any big body in there with the idea that they just slow down the man in front of him. The QB will have enough time and can run when the pass rusher gets past.

About the only thing that has gone up in value with these spread offenses are receivers, and what people think are tight ends (which are just bigger bodied receivers).

[Paelos]

Positions that are basically dying due to the spread system:

- Quarterbacks
- The Fullback
- An actual Left Tackle
- A blocking RB
- The traditional blocking TE

Positions that are thriving:

- Receivers
- RB's that do nothing but run

And that's about it. And "fans" don't care much because fantasy has ruined watching the game. It won't be legal cases or off-field issues that kill the NFL. It will be the slow demise of the product as it tries to make itself about fantasy and ridiculous offense rather than actually winning games. The spread is a by-product of that need. Average players put into a scheme to produce high scoring chances.

The revolution will come when a defensive head coach breaks the mold and creates the spread-equivalent defensive scheme to stop it. And that's coming. Nothing is forever in football.

[HaemishM]

Based on how much the rules have been twisted to ensure that a receiver cannot be breathed on when trying to run a route or catch a ball, I'm amazed that we have so many SHITTY SHIT SHIT SHIT QB's. I mean, so long as you can find a guy that should have decent position on a DB AND you can get the ball to him in a remotely catchable place, he should be able to grab it or draw a penalty. And yet, there are so many QB's who just can't even do that.

[Velorath]

It's okay we're used to it. Harbaugh was but a brief respite from the Yorks' reign of terror.

Yeah, I had season tickets through the Garcia, Rattay, Dorsey, Pickett, Smith, Dilfer, Hill, Weinke, and O'Sullivan era. I'm just glad the Yorks were kind enough to move the team to Santa Clara, and build their abomination of a stadium which had more thought put into the inside where people could follow Fantasy Football than the shadeless deathtrap where people have to watch the actual game being played. They've ensured that I'll never be tempted to spend money on going to a game again.

[Paelos]

Cowboys are still shit with Matt Cassel. To nobody's shock.

[Ghambit]

So the Dolphins could have broken just about every major NFL record today if they'd played 4-quarters (they were a penalty and lost fumble away from scoring the most points ever in a half).  Most insane half of Football in franchise history, easily.  The stats are mind-blowing.  We shall see if Belicheat has the answer for them though, because right now they look like... well, I dunno what.  I haven't seen a phins team play this way ever, not even in the Marino era. 

The fans have gone apeshit over this new coach.  The media will too if they manage to beat the Pats in Foxboro on a short week.

[Draegan]

Positions that are basically dying due to the spread system:

- Quarterbacks
- The Fullback
- An actual Left Tackle
- A blocking RB
- The traditional blocking TE

Positions that are thriving:

- Receivers
- RB's that do nothing but run

And that's about it. And "fans" don't care much because fantasy has ruined watching the game. It won't be legal cases or off-field issues that kill the NFL. It will be the slow demise of the product as it tries to make itself about fantasy and ridiculous offense rather than actually winning games. The spread is a by-product of that need. Average players put into a scheme to produce high scoring chances.

The revolution will come when a defensive head coach breaks the mold and creates the spread-equivalent defensive scheme to stop it. And that's coming. Nothing is forever in football.

Quarterbacks are dying yet the cowboys are 0 and 4 without romo? Arent you a sports writer? What the fuck is wrong with you?

[croaker69]

Dying in the sense that the college game is killing those roles and there are few quality players available for pro teams to draft. Those roles are still very valid in the pro game. It's one of the big reasons the pro game is turning to shit, why it's so hard for pro teams to find a quality qb, and why the spread between the top and bottom of the league is widening.

[Shannow]

The NFL has the answer, put a team in London!

Jets actually resemble a football team now, the Bills are fucking lolrex.

[Draegan]

Dying in the sense that the college game is killing those roles and there are few quality players available for pro teams to draft. Those roles are still very valid in the pro game. It's one of the big reasons the pro game is turning to shit, why it's so hard for pro teams to find a quality qb, and why the spread between the top and bottom of the league is widening.

That's not really true. It's always been difficult to find a good/decent QB. The league today still has a very healthy roster of QBs. Here's a list of good to great QBs, no specific order.

Rogers
Brady
Rivers
P.Manning
E.Manning
Roethlisberger
Dalton
Palmer
Newton
Ryan
Wilson
Luck


Up and coming
Carr
Tannehill? maybe
Bortles
Bridgewater

Where do you put Brees, Flacco, Cutler? That's more than half the league. You've always had the bottom third teams not settled at QB.

Kaepernick, Foles, Stafford, Fitzpatrick, Hoyer, Bradford, Cousins, Taylor. Rookies Mariota and Winston can't be judged.

There are 14 QBs out there that have a 90+ QB rating that have more than 100 completions. Not in that list? Luck, Newton, P.Manning, Ryan, Bridgewater, Fitzpatrtick, Flacco.

[HaemishM]

I actually watched two decent games yesterday, though the outcomes were exactly what I expected.

The Jets/Patriots game was good. This Jets team is actually pretty decent. Todd Bowles' defense is pretty strong though honestly it wouldn't have been nearly as competitive a game if Brady's receivers hadn't dropped 10 goddamn passes. Brandon LaFell is falling into the inconsistency chasm. When he can catch the ball he's good, but man when he goes off the rails, he drops EVERYTHING. If the Jets could get a good, consistent QB (Fitzmagic is way too prone to streaks of WTFINT's), they might actually be a contender. I think they make the playoffs as a wild card and lose to New England in Foxboro. Considering the rest of the AFC, they'll be fighting Pittsburgh and the Raiders for the wild card, so chances are good they'll make it.

The Eagles/Panthers game was also good, though really the Eagles just continue to shoot themselves in the foot. Sam Bradford is proving that you can't just plug any old QB into the Chip Kelly system and have it work. At least they've sort of figured out how to run Demarco Murray. Their defense is also stronger than it was earlier in the season. With how bad the NFC East is this year, I can't make a prediction about which team will make the playoffs because one shitty team WILL make the playoffs  by winning this flaming dumpster on wheels. I'm pretty sure it won't be the Cowboys though. The Panthers, however, looked a decent team. I don't think they can win the Super Bowl, but their defense is strong, their running game is bruising and Cam Newton is a half decent QB. INT's will be a problem for this team as I'm not sure Newton can throw the ball at less than mach speed which will cause some balls to not be where they should.

Nothing I've seen has made me believe there are any teams that are as good as the Packers and Patriots.

[Paelos]

There are 14 QBs out there that have a 90+ QB rating that have more than 100 completions. Not in that list? Luck, Newton, P.Manning, Ryan, Bridgewater, Fitzpatrtick, Flacco.

Passer rating is not a good metric for the discussion of what's happening to QBs. It places a high emphasis on completing passes (and way too much on TDs passes specifcially for my taste), and the new style of QB is throwing more and more short passes, relying on their receivers to make people miss. Lots of screens, lots of over the middle stuff, and very little risk. Which is usually fine if you have a great D and a huge running game. If you don't, you're fucked.

What is a good metric is looking at overall yardage and the Y/A. The bad QBs are throwing less and for less yards. The better QBs are throwing more and for more yards, because the rules are such that passing is rewarded and they are likely needing to do it for their team.

Rivers, Brady, Ryan, Brees, Rodgers, Smith, Manning, Palmer, etc. They are all in their 30s. They were recruited into the league over a decade ago. Josh McCown has a passer rating of 96 right now and he's 36. I mean really?

The new guys are Wilson, Luck, Cam, Dalton, Bortles, Tannehill, Winston, Bridgewater, Mariota, Taylor. Dalton's the standout right now at 28. Cam and Wilson will always be guys who run and rely on their D. Luck is having an awful year, Bortles and Tannehill has some upside, and the rest I think will be average or wash out.

[Paelos]

Quarterbacks are dying yet the cowboys are 0 and 4 without romo? Arent you a sports writer? What the fuck is wrong with you?

That really proves my point more than anything. The second you lose your franchise QB if you have one that's in his 30s? You're in the fucking wastelands. It's going to happen to more and more clubs as they retire. God help you if you have to get into the QB draft carousel now, because you're not winning a championship anytime soon.

The point is that the replacements for these QBs that can read defenses and make NFL throws down the field, while doing 2-minute drives without the OC in his ear? Those are a dying breed thanks to college systems. The ramp up time for a functional QB is really long.

[Trippy]

Passer rating is not a good metric for the discussion of what's happening to QBs. It places a high emphasis on completing passes (and way too much on TDs passes specifcially for my taste), and the new style of QB is throwing more and more short passes, relying on their receivers to make people miss. Lots of screens, lots of over the middle stuff, and very little risk. Which is usually fine if you have a great D and a huge running game. If you don't, you're fucked.

Not new -- you just described the West Coast offense.

[Paelos]

I'd say it's a dumbed down version of the West Coast, if that's a thing. Requiring less reads and tight windows.

I mean as an example, I think that Cam is running a lot of read-option sets in his game, coupled with some easy passes. The Dolphins went out of their way to say they are running a simplified passing system based on efficiency for Tannehill.

[Trippy]

Sure I'll buy that.

[Draegan]

Quarterbacks are dying yet the cowboys are 0 and 4 without romo? Arent you a sports writer? What the fuck is wrong with you?

That really proves my point more than anything. The second you lose your franchise QB if you have one that's in his 30s? You're in the fucking wastelands. It's going to happen to more and more clubs as they retire. God help you if you have to get into the QB draft carousel now, because you're not winning a championship anytime soon.

The point is that the replacements for these QBs that can read defenses and make NFL throws down the field, while doing 2-minute drives without the OC in his ear? Those are a dying breed thanks to college systems. The ramp up time for a functional QB is really long.

I guess it proves that there aren't enough average to good quarterbacks out there that you can have two of them on your team. I mean c'mon. My point is that more than half the league (can argue 2/3rds) has a decent to great QB on their team. My argument wasn't that there are enough that you can have an equivalent starter on your bench.

This trend has existed for 20-30 years right now with some exceptions (Montana to Young, Favre to Rogers, Bledsoe to Brady)

[Paelos]

The WSJ also covered the issue in more detail, but that article is likely behind a paywall right now so here's the crux.

Quarterbacks now are dumb. They don't know how to even read a playbook. Cam Newton was famous for John Gruden "Putting him on the spot" when he couldn't even name plays at Auburn. That's not abnormal anymore, that's the norm.

That's not a trend of 20-30 years. That's NOW, and it's due to the high school and college coaches micro-managing everything about their offenses. QBs are now robots, and they don't know how to make decisions.

EDIT: Here's the Cam thing. It's laughable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5rP8-pkMX8

EDIT2: And Cam's probably the most successful one of the bunch in terms of PR now. He's that dumb. It's just crazy to me.

[sickrubik]

Lions OC and OL coaches gone.

[Draegan]

The WSJ also covered the issue in more detail, but that article is likely behind a paywall right now so here's the crux.

Quarterbacks now are dumb. They don't know how to even read a playbook. Cam Newton was famous for John Gruden "Putting him on the spot" when he couldn't even name plays at Auburn. That's not abnormal anymore, that's the norm.

That's not a trend of 20-30 years. That's NOW, and it's due to the high school and college coaches micro-managing everything about their offenses. QBs are now robots, and they don't know how to make decisions.

EDIT: Here's the Cam thing. It's laughable. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5rP8-pkMX8

EDIT2: And Cam's probably the most successful one of the bunch in terms of PR now. He's that dumb. It's just crazy to me.

So through the list of QBs I listed before, outside of Cam who is dumb?