Blizzards New MMO

[Sjofn]

Guild Wars does, and it's the best modern example I can think of.  However there is an unchanging primary class which determines the character's special functions and a secondary class.  (tmp was talking about the ability to switch the secondary at will once unlocked.  That is what I was responding to.)

When I say true multi-classing I mean the character gets the full benefits of both.  It's not Mage with some Fighter abilities or a Fighter with some Mage spells, it's the full power of Mage + the full power of Fighter.

DDO. 

Also, you know I love me some Free Realms, but to say it has less grind than all the other MMOs you listed is goofy. A bunch of the classes even use the exact same minigame (OK, with some really minor variations) to level. It may be a pleasant grind, but it is definitely a grind and a half.

[Sutro]

Just to pipe in here, playing a Lore-master in LOTRO was one of the more rewarding experiences I've had playing MMOs. So_much_stuff_to_do, and how well you manage multiple tasks has a HUGE impact on how well your team does.

One of the roles I harped and harped on to our LMs in kin was about debuffs. Sign of Command / Fire-Lore (Air-Lore if ranged) are just amazing, amazing debuffs, yet they so often get ignored in favor of spreading power, flashing, rooting, pet management, emergency healing, draining power, clearing diseases and poisons, tossing tar, DPSing... you see where I go with this, heh. Your hands are never still as a lore-master, and there's always one more thing you can be doing to help the team.

And yet, LMs don't fit any real true role. They're the classic example of the D&D 2ndEd/3.0/3.5 wizard - they're "Batman". Absolute A+ to Loremaster design, and I really hope that games in the future look at them as great examples of how to make a class.

[Lantyssa]

I'll save you some trouble digging through your source code backups though - the original DikuMUD code supported classes, but there was no 'holy trinity' because there was no 'tanking'. In fact, I can't think of a group encounter in the original mudlib, but I do have every public (and then some) MUD and mudlib from that period, so I will try and check that for you.

"Tanking" was whomever attacked first.  It was a FIFO stack affected only by a handful of skills like guard and rescue or a rare few mob procs.

Also, you know I love me some Free Realms, but to say it has less grind than all the other MMOs you listed is goofy. A bunch of the classes even use the exact same minigame (OK, with some really minor variations) to level. It may be a pleasant grind, but it is definitely a grind and a half.

That's why I said it's DIKU.  The wrapping makes it tolerable and is subjective, but doesn't alter the fundamentals.  The list was a subjective order of pleasantness, that's all.

And yeah, I forgot about DDO.  My experience with it wasn't pleasant so I didn't get to level, much less multi-class.

[Merusk]

I'll save you some trouble digging through your source code backups though - the original DikuMUD code supported classes, but there was no 'holy trinity' because there was no 'tanking'. In fact, I can't think of a group encounter in the original mudlib, but I do have every public (and then some) MUD and mudlib from that period, so I will try and check that for you.

"Tanking" was whomever attacked first.  It was a FIFO stack affected only by a handful of skills like guard and rescue or a rare few mob procs.

Or, in the case of aggressive mobs, whoever walked into the room first and was therefore first on the room list.   Depending on your code base and add-on code bits you may have had 'rescue X' which pulled you in front of the person you typed or  'heroic rescue' which swapped you to the front of everyone in the room.  The only escape skill I remember was /flee which ran you out of the room in a random direction so you could enter again and wind-up at the bottom of the room list.

 That was primarily Circle and ROM, though, IIRC, and they even included a "Tank" emote.  "X offers to tank. Are they insane?"

[Ingmar]

The LP Mud I played on and coded for for years *basically* had the holy trinity, but it was really more like the holy duo since it was just a tank who healed themselves + dpsers. We did have some special code you could use for fancier monsters who would target people with low armor, etc.

[tmp]

Captains and lore masters... Lore masters have at least 3 possible (roles), captains also, have 3. In fact, Minstrel/captain/Rune keeper can all be considered healers... Even the lore master has some ability to heal others, and Rez (Pipe weed FTW?).

Come to think of it yup, captains are very good example of a (near fully) versatile class. They can heal, they can rez, they can tank, they can do decent damage themselves and also buff the damage of the whole party. They can also trait themselves to strengthen any of these roles. And having played one for a bit, it didn't really feel like any of these roles were lacking "depth" compared to single function classes.

[Venkman]

Funny thing about the EQ vs DIKU terminology thing, I seem to recall you being one of the guys who was all over using the term in the first place, Darniaq.  Something about knowing game history or what-not.

Yea, you're probably right. You gonna blame me for extolling the virtues of DAoC's relevant crafting too? 

Unless you've seen the light about how retarded putting controls like that into the crafting community's hands is, yes. 

Christ I've known some of you people a long time. I need a hobby. 

[Sjofn]

The LP Mud I played on and coded for for years *basically* had the holy trinity, but it was really more like the holy duo since it was just a tank who healed themselves + dpsers. We did have some special code you could use for fancier monsters who would target people with low armor, etc.

And then you had to spam your "rescue <whomever>" alias!

[Lantyssa]

Ah procs.  They were fun to fiddle with and completely ruin players' expectations of what a mob should do.  Unfortunately we couldn't go overboard on them.  Still, I think my favorite was the Myconid effects even if it didn't do much special.  <nostalgia>

[Draegan]

I created the best "raid" mob ever in one of my MUDs.  It basically summoned adds and created potions to heal himself.  Stuff was based on health %'s.  There were other things it did but I can't remember.  It was fun though.

[schild]

I created the best "raid" mob ever in one of my MUDs.  It basically summoned adds and created potions to heal himself.  Stuff was based on health %'s.  There were other things it did but I can't remember.  It was fun though.

I think you should put "best" in quotes too, hombre.

[patience]

Blizzard going for a post apocalyptic MMO?

If true too bad for Bethesda and their plans for Fallout.

[Triforcer]

It will be a post-apocalyptic setting where the various survivors have a treaty that is JUST HOLDING, but it has frayed to the extent that certain members of each race may enter into a stadium (or "competition area" if you will) to engage in combat with other players.

[Malakili]

It will be a post-apocalyptic setting where the various survivors have a treaty that is JUST HOLDING, but it has frayed to the extent that certain members of each race may enter into a stadium (or "competition area" if you will) to engage in combat with other players.

[ashrik]

I think it'll be pretty good and fun, no matter what it is about. Just because they made World of Warcraft doesn't mean every game every that will be an XZY-flavored version of it. Here's to my own delicious wishes with this game and the best laid plans of mice and men

[Arthur_Parker]

I'm hoping for Blizzard's take on Battletech.

[01101010]

Pretty abstract. At least it won't have orcs and elves...right? 

[Triforcer]

Pretty abstract. At least it won't have orcs and elves...right? 

Unless its a warhammer 40k ripoff. 

[01101010]

Pretty abstract. At least it won't have orcs and elves...right? 

Unless its a warhammer 40k ripoff. 

Didn't they do that already... just without the 40k? 

[Teleku]

I think World of Starcraft has already been ruled out.

[ghost]

Pretty abstract. At least it won't have orcs and elves...right? 

What good is an MMO without Elven tatas?

[Triforcer]

This name raises my hopes for an MMOFPS at least slightly.  I can see Blizzard being intrigued by Eve and doing its own take on that (either in space or a much-improved Planetside/WW2OL). 

But it probably refers to the "Cataclysm" of when the Evenlon elves split from the Denair elves at the Sundering of Wizzle Rift, or something along those lines. 

[Jerrith]

Just to pipe in here, playing a Lore-master in LOTRO was one of the more rewarding experiences I've had playing MMOs. So_much_stuff_to_do, and how well you manage multiple tasks has a HUGE impact on how well your team does.

Vanguard's bard class fits in along these lines as well.  By default they were melee dps.  With a parrying dagger, they made a good (but not great) tank, with the right instrument / bonus items, they kite well and do magic dps.  Very good crowd control.  Lots of buff and debuff possibilities.  Probably their weakest area was healing, as even with the right instrument, their healing/regen songs were fairly weak - to the point that you were generally better off doing damage instead to kill things faster.  Still with the right racial choice (for a powerful, very long recast heal) for emergencies, you could keep a group that spread out the damage going for quite awhile.

[Senses]

I read this quote from Tigole awhile ago, but seeing that they reserved the name Cataclysm makes it a little more relevant now.

 “Once people figure that out, your game world is going to attract a lot of people,” he explained. “But a lot of it has to do with art style, too. Are you going for realism or an inviting world? And once you learn those lessons, I think any type of [intellectual property] can survive. I’m shocked we haven’t seen more sci-fi, near-future, post-apocalyptic, historical MMOs; there’s all these completely different fantasy settings beyond the traditional high fantasy ones.”

Makes me think he was basically describing his newest project.

[Kail]

Pretty abstract. At least it won't have orcs and elves...right?  

Could be a coincidence, but according to wow.com the domain registration for wowcataclysm.com reverted to the corp which handles Blizzard's domains on the same day that the patents were filed.

So it might also just be a name for the next epansion.

[Fordel]

Yea, I think it's just going to be the next expansion.

[Bzalthek]

Yep, probably a Maelstrom expansion for WoW.  While neat, I would really love to see them role out a post-apoc MMO.

[gryeyes]

I haven't played WoW for about 3 months after TBC came out. Has the emerald dream been implemented or has it just been forgotten? They started adding quests/storylines leading up to it WAY before TBC came out.

[proudft]

Maybe they realized no one will ever spell Maelstrom right.

[Malakili]

' sci-fi, near-future, post-apocalyptic, historical MMOs'

...

Makes me think he was basically describing his newest project.

Time traveling then.  You heard it here first.

[Sheepherder]

I haven't played WoW for about 3 months after TBC came out. Has the emerald dream been implemented or has it just been forgotten? They started adding quests/storylines leading up to it WAY before TBC came out.

Forgotten.

[Fordel]

Not forgotten, just on the back burner. They keep working in the dream in minor quests and in the out of game lore, bit by bit.



The Rumor going around, (which is 100% bullshit in terms of any factual information, but probably a good speculative guess regardless), is that Azshara intends to Flood the world for her ultimate revenge (at one point, there were Naga in Northrend trying to melt the glaciers). This of course is very bad for the world and would eventually lead to it's total destruction or whatever. This flooding in turn is causing the Emerald Dream to fall into chaos, as it's such a massive disruption of the natural flow of things, hence the Emerald Nightmare that has been strung around for years now.


Again, someone just wanked it up, but it sounds like what a WoW expansion would be.

[Ratman_tf]

I'd rather like the next expansion to be a proper Azjol'Nerub. A whole expansion set underground.

[01101010]

I'd rather like the next expansion to be a proper Azjol'Nerub. A whole expansion set underground.

ah la LotRO? would not surprise me one bit, but might be seen as a slip-up.

[Draegan]

Cataclysm is just the name of the game they're going to call what they make after they scrap Diablo 3.