Guitar thread

[Sky]

Sounds like you should save up for a real Taylor ;)

I was just lamenting my big miss. The guy I mentioned in my last post used to manage a chain music store. One day I was there and he told me to check out the Taylor they got in. Another store in the chain couldn't sell it, so he took it at a discount. It was a nylon string cutaway, but with a neck that was not a full classical neck, much more playable for regular guitarists, but still wider to keep the feel of a classical, plus a cutaway, spruce top/ebony board. It was amazing, the best acoustic I've ever played and it was going for $800 a few years ago...normal price around $1400 iirc. I was in hardcore savings mode and didn't get it.

The whole way home I was going on about it, and all night. My fiancee told me to go back and buy it. Went back the next day and it was gone, shoulda called my friend and had him put it away when they opened. My biggest missed opportunity for gear since I passed up a BC Rich Bich in a pawn shop when I was 15.

We were just talking about that stupid guitar (the Taylor cutaway), he was wishing he had bought it, too.

[stray]

Yeah, that sucks.. Has happened to me too.


Hey, check out Seagull guitars. Not Taylors, but they are cheaper and still pretty nice. Better than your Alv maybe.. (I dunno).. They have wide, yet not too wide necks too.. But they are steel strings. I think if you sat down with one, you wouldn't be disappointed. Been meaning to get one myself..

[climbjtree]

Live from Iraq! Me fucking around. Is it just me, or do songs become infinitely more difficult once you try to record? I can usually play the entire song (well past where the recording stops) with only a minor error here or there. I hit record and its like I've never played before in my life!

[Selby]

I can usually play the entire song (well past where the recording stops) with only a minor error here or there. I hit record and its like I've never played before in my life!

Years ago when I was young and screwing around more, I would just record any time I played.  That way it didn't matter whether I was good or bad, I could save the takes I liked and junk the rest.  Very little pressure when it is something you are always doing.

[climbjtree]

Yeah, that's what I intend to do. I'm basically days away from being home, so I've done a little online shopping. I've bought a new amp and digital recorder, and once I get back I'm sure I'll make some more purchases. I'm excited about the recorder though! 8 tracks and with an internal HDD, and also can burn to a CD.

[Selby]

Quite a long ways away from my tape recorder plugged into a cheap amp ;-)

[stray]

I think recording is unbearably hard.. I give up 3/4's of the time. I'm just not responsible enough with my music.. always thought it'd be better if someone directed me.

[Sky]

Yeah, recording these days is much tougher. I have no patience for multiple takes. Back in the olden tymes, we recorded so much we couldn't help but have good performances. But then, we were playing every day for hours so we were super-tight, even recorded our first demo in one shot with time left to play one song twice (I think we had an hour booked :)). Guy was a jazz engineer, so he was used to recording live stuff in his studio, great experience. We used a boom box and recorded everything we played, and we used to play a good four hours a day together. The tragedy: I only have two tapes of the thousands we had.

Now with the digital 8 track, it's nice for jotting stuff down, but I'm absolutely awful with finishing things. I blame it on the adhd (srsly). Mine doesn't burn CDs, though. I just wrote another one, another spanishy feeling one that kinda came out of nowhere. I'm tentatively calling it Uno Más. But as a sketch, I'm playing it as I'm writing it, so it's positively terrible, but there are definitely some moments of potential in there.

CJT: that was wicked! Though I hate that song  Nice sound from the uke.

[stray]

Probably a mixture of adhd and unhealthy perfectionism for me. I'm that way in general unfortunately. For instance, I went through a sketchpad the other day.. and only had 2 drawings to show for it. Kept ripping everything else out. Recording is the same.. Maybe when I'm in a band type of groove, I make less mistakes, I don't know.. But when I record, I'll start detecting the slightest fuckups or variation in rhythm, and keep trying to redo everything.

[Nebu]

I can't begin to tell you how many bands booted me because I was a perfectionist in the booth.  This is one reason why I'm hesitant to release anything to you guys.  I obsess over recordings to the point of it being unhealthy. 

Sadly, I was the same about live performances.  It got really bad when I started getting into successful bands where entertainment took priority over musical quality.  Playing with alcoholics and drug addicts really ruined my joy for live performance. 

[climbjtree]

Thanks Sky! Irritates me that I can't lay down the whole thing though.

I think I've developed some pretty bad habits playing only the ukulele the last year. I watched the video and noticed that I only pick with two fingers as well as a few other things. We'll see how things go when I get back!

I'm definitely buying an upscale keyboard too. It's certainly what I'm most excited about.

[Raph]

Nice sounding uke!

The new Rodrigo y Gabriela CD arrived from Amazon, and there was a DVD with video lessons. I can now do Gabriela's crazy percussive strum at 1/4 speed. 

[Sky]

I want to get my fiancee into the piano again, she keeps coming up with reasons not to  She played many years ago, and she wants a new hobby. Duh!

Anyway, re: strums. I was playing the baby in the mirror and noticed my strums are slowly (!!) improving, too. I'm stuck between wanting to learn real flamenco right hand technique (ZOMG TOUGH) and going with my inspiration, Conrado Garcia, who says just play it however it feels natural and don't pay too much attention. Since the latter is easy, and I'm lazy, I've been going that route. Caught myself in the mirror doing Babe I'm Gonna Leave You and the triplet strummy part looks kind of impressive, and follows Garcia's method :) Sometimes I do it with a flamencoish index finger flourish, sometimes I do it with my old bass guitar three-finger strum (thanks Steve Harris).

But I am trying to apply good principles to it, flamenco (and probably classical, been so long I forget) wants you to flick the three fingers down to get the nail sound, and it does sound good. But my brain always wants to do the three fingers up, because that's how it works on the bass (if you look at that mediocre anesthesia on the tube, I use it here and there, and the riff around 1:50 is based on it). I've grown my right hand nails out and enjoy the sound the nail lends to fingerpicking, but I don't think I can be assed to keep them up like a pro. I also have issues with fingerpicking over the soundhole, because I like to feel something solid with the corner heel of my hand, I can't just float pick it (well).

Working on a couple Francisco Tarrega tunes and still in that spanishy vibe. Not sure where that really comes from :)

[Miguel]

Speaking of Anesthesia...I found this recording from circa 2001 that I did of the first part of Anesthesia after I got my ProCo Rat distortion pedal.

Distortion on bass is a real PITA, since it tends to get really muddy.  This was on my incredibly shitty Peavey Foundation bass, which has the worst pickups known to mankind.  I'd like to redo it on my new Ibanez.

Check it out here

Speaking of gear lust, I've been really wanting to get one of these:

[Raph]

Sky, the Gabriela 4/4 strum for most of the R y G tunes is slap, index up, middle/ring down and on the nail, thumb up and on the nail. The triplets she does are index down, thumb down, thumb up.

[Sky]

That index thumb down thumb up sounds like one I was experimenting with, you get a nice flow going once you get it moving.

[stray]

finally bought one of those Seagulls I kept mentioning.. The S6 dread (kind of their basic flagship). Pretty awesome. And only $400. If it was American, it'd be priced like a basic Martin probably. IMO though, it sounds better. edit: Oh, forgot.. most of their gits are wide neck, so that's another reason I got it. Finally can move around with fingerstyles a bit more. But they do have like 2 models that are standard width (a dread and a mini jumbo).

Anyways! I love not having a shitty acoustic guitar 

[Sky]

Cool beans! I really need to sell my Alvarez at some point, I never play it any more. The Baby has totally spoiled me.

[stray]

Check these out.. It might be the kind of guitar that'll sit happily next to the Taylor.. without actually having to buy a Taylor.

I heard Larivee is good too (also Canadian).. they're stuff is reasonably priced, but what I heard is that the owner was one of the main dudes who helped Taylor get his start (I forgot which actual building technique he contributed though).

Now on to saving up for an LP Custom.. I only want an Epi though  

[Sky]

I'm apparently becoming a country artist. Discussing teeth with my fiancee, I mentioned I only had three wisdom teeth. She asked if I had one pulled, I told her it never came in. But the way I phrased it was: "Jesus stole my wisdom tooth."

Inspiration, and a new song, Jesus Stole My Wisdom Tooth (I Am A Dumbass Now).

[Miguel]

I came across this bass exercise called the 'spider' from John Patitucci's bass instructional video:

Code:

The spider:

G: -----7-----8-----5-----6--  (Repeat x times)
D: --5-----6-----7-----8----- 
A: -------------------------- 
E: -------------------------- 
     1  3  2  4  3  1  4  2


-----7-----8-----5-----6--
--------------------------
--5-----6-----7-----8-----
--------------------------

-----7-----8-----5-----6-- 
-------------------------- 
-------------------------- 
--5-----6-----7-----8-----

It works on guitar too of course.  It's absolutely brutal on the coordination at anything but very slow speeds.

[Sky]

That's interesting. I used to do a lot of shape practice back in the day, but I never really do stuff like that anymore. I'll rarely do some scale run practice, but my speed has gone way down and I hardly use it anymore. On the flip side, I'm thinking a lot more about what I'm playing, trying to spontaneously compose (a phrase I lifted from a baroque composition book talking about blues heh). So at some point I'll probably build up speed again when my brain can keep up with it. I'm amazingly dysfunctional on guitar.

One pattern exercise I was using a couple years ago was trying to play only using the ring and pinky fingers. I do still do some hammer-on exercises, but I'm a huge Iommi fan and nobody can touch his hammers. So working ring/pinky hammers or even middle/ring hammers can get brutal real quick.

A funny thing about that bass pattern...when I tap my fingers, I can't do it well straight, pima(+pinky, not sure if theres a letter, heh). I do it pmiam(pinky) or the same with dropping the thumb. It's similar in practice to that pattern.

[stray]

Still a lazy-ass with scales and such. I'm just rhythm. But not in that way where I've ever happy with bass either. I'm just big on those thumps and melodies that worth repeating - on guitar.

I think making up dozens of melodies and lines on spot... being lead and shit.. that's really cool. But I know my limits, and haven't been able to do it well for years. So fuck it. :P

Doing that and playing rhythm well even better.. That's probably the definition of a guitar "god", I think. Some lead players *think* they are guitar gods for simply being able to play rhythm, and good lead, but they are not gods. Their rhythms suck. In this case, I feel like I might have a few things they can't do. The lines they care to repeat suck.. That's why no one listens to them except enthusiasts. But then you got the Slashes, and the Jimis, and whatnot.. Those guys are great. But I know I'm not them either.

Wtf am I talking about anyways.. ? /rantoff  

[Miguel]

I found a YouTube showing the technique (well, the first one playing adjacent strings)...when it's fast it's very 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OsAEUryULPc

[Sky]

Stray, I've mentioned before that Jimi is one of my favorite rhythm guitarists. Everyone focuses on his leads, but I like the other stuff better. I can do a bit of it in Wind Cries Mary, but it's so deep and effortless. Early Eddie VH was like that, too. Lots of arpeggios and fills, and a heavy slathering of good strumming.

The bit I mentioned about spontaneous composition was pretty cool. They were writing it to a classical composer audience, but said it was worth learning how to solo over blues changes because that's a solid foundation for endless improvisation and got into a bit about improvisation being a great testing ground for ideas you were working through for written composition, basically you're taking the incredibly challenging task of composing solid musical ideas and compressing it into real time and also throwing uncontrolled variables in the form of other musicians.

[stray]

Stray, I've mentioned before that Jimi is one of my favorite rhythm guitarists. Everyone focuses on his leads, but I like the other stuff better. I can do a bit of it in Wind Cries Mary, but it's so deep and effortless. Early Eddie VH was like that, too. Lots of arpeggios and fills, and a heavy slathering of good strumming.

The bit I mentioned about spontaneous composition was pretty cool. They were writing it to a classical composer audience, but said it was worth learning how to solo over blues changes because that's a solid foundation for endless improvisation and got into a bit about improvisation being a great testing ground for ideas you were working through for written composition, basically you're taking the incredibly challenging task of composing solid musical ideas and compressing it into real time and also throwing uncontrolled variables in the form of other musicians.

Yeah, that's always been my favorite way to hear guitar playing.. All of those leads of VH or Hendrix in their progressions and shit.. But the underlying songs and rhythms were just catchy too (and usually technically thinking outside the box as well), which sets them apart.

Anyways, I can "spontaneously" compose a bit, but you know, it's just like blues licks and and a few things I pick up here and there. I just can't shred. Oh, and I'm probably overly defensive right now cuz I recently had a run-in with shredders.   I should just smack these fuckers (literally), because they're the types that have specifically said Hendrix and people like that are overrated. I sometimes think that they come from a different planet, and see music differently. It's.. like music is just some big mathematical + dexterity wankfest for them. I wish I had their talent and understanding though. I think I'd do something better with it.

[Sky]

I got over that pretty early, but I always listened to a wide variety of stuff. While I was in high school, I remember a couple of younger kids talking in the hall one day about sharping some note descending on some scale kinda thing, a long discussion on all this technical stuff. Having heard the guitarist in question, I broke in and said, "Yeah, but your feel sucks. You can't calculate that." Dave Gilmour played on the first 45 I bought with my own money, and I grew up in the era of great FM radio. All the classical stuff came later, but I was just old enough that I could take my enjoyment of classical music and apply it to guitar, rather than be influenced indirectly by Yngwie and co. And our band was thrash, so my early shred was more Kerry King than Yngwie :)

I was working that pattern a bit last night, it's a good workout but my brain slips off it and I keep forgetting what I'm playing because it's not very melodic. I guess I like to practice things I actually play, even though I see the merit in a separate exercise for your hands like that.

[stray]

Heh well it doesn't help that the guy who taught me was into surfer stuff (and not even Dick Dale.. more like the slower Ventures stuff). Cool though. From there, I learned Sex Pistols and Misfits songs. That wasn't helping. Jimi and Chuck Berry were my first real dives into something better. Jimi was always harder back then too because his leads, in like, say, Purple Haze had those octave effects.. Hard to pull off. Damn kids these days have cool Line6 amps and shit. :P Then of course I learned Metallica and Sabbath stuff. Really I've never evolved much beyond that.. power chords and pentatonics :)

[Sky]

Hell, I was using power chords for years. I did make some advances in minor keys and I knew some cowboy chords, but as bad as I feel as I am at theory now, for a long time I was sooo bad, while at the same time at the height of creativity. It's all about using the tools you have to create good music, not matter how primitive or lacking in eloquence. We took on a second guitarist in LA, and he knew theory out the wazoo, a Randy Rhoades guy, and I always envied his tasty chord choices but wasn't able to learn much because I was so focused on the bass at the time. And the guy was a total asshole and the only person ever kicked out of the band.

[stray]

Eee, need to correct that.. I mean, of course I know the cowboy chords and various shapes/intervals.. I do barre-ing too, with little hammer ons and progressions and stuff. I can play just about any whacked out diminished or 7th and provide a gypsy jazz rhythm or something.. But my sound I guess is still pretty dependent on just the usual shit. \m/  .. ;)


Not sure if I'd kick out a Randy Rhoads sound-alike in my band. Asshole or not.  

edit: Just to add, I stayed strictly in that power chord mode for quite some time though. 13-20 ish. I think listening to the Beatles opened up a lot about rhythm for me honestly. Nowadays I try to tell young kids to learn shit like that. They never listen. :P Hell, they don't even want to touch an acoustic and just strum something. Kid next door to me has been playing a year, and he is impressively fast at the chugga-chugga shit.. Better than I ever was (he listens to a lot Slipknot.. stuff like that), but the kid actually has no understanding of chord progression well. So I find it hard jamming with him. He goes nowhere with it, melodically I mean. But I was probably the same way once.

[Nebu]

We had a Juliard trained guitarist in a band of mine back in the 80's.  The guy could play any style, in any key, and improvise on the fly.  He was also drug free and one of the most humble guys I'd ever met.  Our manager fired him because he was 6' 4", overweight, and had an acne problem.  Shortly after I left the music business. 

I need to learn more chord shapes.  I feel VERY limited in my guitar playing by my knowledge moreso than my ability.  If any of you have some suggestions, I'd be grateful. 

[Sky]

CAGED! I've mentioned it before, but I'm a total convert. It's really opened up the fretboard to me, though I have a looong way to go. I started with this book and still recommend it as the starting point. I later got this book and I like it better in some ways, though he doesn't adhere to the CAGED naming conventions. I prefer calling it CAGED over 'shape 1 shape 2 etc', because CAGED evokes the cowboy chords we have burned in our memories.

Basically it links chord shapes (and scales derived thereof, though I'm mostly still working on the chords!) up the neck. Get out your guitar and play a cowboy C chord. Then play it as a barre chord on the 3rd fret, that's the A form of the C chord. And then play it behind the barre chord you'd think of on the 8th fret of the 6th string...eh, let me write it out, these are all C chords:

x 3 2 0 1 0 C shape
x 3 5 5 5 3 A Shape
8 7 5 5 5 8 G shape
8 10 10 9 8 8 E shape
x x 10 12 13 12 D shape

Look for places the shapes match up, like the little triangle at the top of the D shape and C shape or the three notes on the same fret shared by the A and G shapes. Powerful stuff. Remember to keep the shape name and chord names separate.

Tagliarino, the guy who wrote the second book I listed also has another book I love that ties into his first book, Chord Tone Soloing. Those three books are the basis of all the improvement I've made over the last couple years. I wish I could go back in time and hand them to my younger self. Instead of memorizing a bajillion chords, learn the basic shapes across the neck and how to properly modify them. There's about a lifetime of study, heh.

[stray]

We had a Juliard trained guitarist in a band of mine back in the 80's.  The guy could play any style, in any key, and improvise on the fly.  He was also drug free and one of the most humble guys I'd ever met.  Our manager fired him because he was 6' 4", overweight, and had an acne problem.  Shortly after I left the music business.  

I need to learn more chord shapes.  I feel VERY limited in my guitar playing by my knowledge moreso than my ability.  If any of you have some suggestions, I'd be grateful.  

I'm not sure what you mean by limited, but like I suggest and what helped me, just learning songs opens up new doors. Or Sky's route is good too. I've never been good at learning anything in the abstract myself. I just start sensing the abstract through people's examples I guess.

Anyways as for songs.. Maybe the Beatles or something like that is simplistic.. Maybe even Jimi is, even though his rhythm is awesome anyways... just that the underlying chords with him are mostly majors and minors.

I'd say try your hand at rumba or gypsy type rhythms.. They're full of unusual chords, or if not that, different techniques.

[Nebu]

Thank you gentlemen.  Great information!

[Sky]

NP, Nebu. Let me know if it helps. This quote is me 100%:

I feel VERY limited in my guitar playing by my knowledge moreso than my ability.

I don't know that I'll ever be satisfied with my knowledge /or/ ability :)