The 'Build Me A PC' Thread

[Numtini]

Why would you RAID SSDs? (serious question)

It's technically faster. I'm not sure it's faster in any way that counts in the real world.

[Trippy]

EDIT: If you really want to be insane, don't buy a 512.  Buy two identical 240-256GB models, and RAID them.  Price won't be much different, assuming your mobo has a decent RAID controller.

Why would you RAID SSDs? (serious question)

To get around the bandwidth limitations of SATA. It's why companies are moving to PCI-e or other less bandwidth constrained interfaces for SSDs.

[Engels]

I know that raid 0 would improve performance, but it terrifies me. Also, does raid 1 improve performance much with SSDs? I'm wondering if there's a cumulative performance effect going to raid 1 with ssd vs conventional drives.

[satael]

EDIT: If you really want to be insane, don't buy a 512.  Buy two identical 240-256GB models, and RAID them.  Price won't be much different, assuming your mobo has a decent RAID controller.

Why would you RAID SSDs? (serious question)

The only reason I can think of is to protect your data from (hardware) errors (but that isn't the case here if it's 2 256GB drives vs. 512GH drive)

[Trippy]

I know that raid 0 would improve performance, but it terrifies me. Also, does raid 1 improve performance much with SSDs? I'm wondering if there's a cumulative performance effect going to raid 1 with ssd vs conventional drives.

The built-in Windows software RAID 1 will not give you a read speed boost:

http://kmwoley.com/blog/?p=429

Hardware RAID might but it depends on the controller. The standard motherboard "fake" RAID controller will not (see above). Newer ones, however, may:

http://wishmesh.com/2013/02/raid-1-mirror-read-speed-as-fast-as-raid-0-stripe/

[Engels]

Eeenteresting. Thanks Trippy.

[Salamok]

EDIT: If you really want to be insane, don't buy a 512.  Buy two identical 240-256GB models, and RAID them.  Price won't be much different, assuming your mobo has a decent RAID controller.

Why would you RAID SSDs? (serious question)

Have you not seen one of the many lets build a RAID based on 24 SSDs videos?

[MahrinSkel]

EDIT: If you really want to be insane, don't buy a 512.  Buy two identical 240-256GB models, and RAID them.  Price won't be much different, assuming your mobo has a decent RAID controller.

Why would you RAID SSDs? (serious question)

With the right RAID controller, you can put them on separate SATA buses and get nearly a GB/second transfer rate.  Which is probably overkill, but....

--Dave

[Jimbo]

Any more news if the new Nvidia 800 series is still coming out or are they changing name and skipping? I've both, that the 880 gtx is supposed to come out in September around the 18th, then I was reading that they might skip the 800 name since that is used by the laptop line of video cards and call them 900 and push back the release dates.

[Trippy]

We'll find out on the 19th.

[Engels]

Trippy, with regards to the Intel raid, and whether or not its fake or not.The article mentions the DX79TO motherboard, and it seems that's at least two years old. Do you know if the newer chipsets, such as the ones in the Z97 chipset, also support this improved raid element?

Also, my work computer just died, and they've given me some leeway in what to get for a work computer that can support at 4-6 drives. Do you guys think this is a good candidate:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K2MAU5Q/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I know its technically a 'gamer' motherboard, but without spending dumb amounts of money on a server motherboard, it looks like gaming motherboards have the versatility needed.

[Trippy]

Trippy, with regards to the Intel raid, and whether or not its fake or not.The article mentions the DX79TO motherboard, and it seems that's at least two years old. Do you know if the newer chipsets, such as the ones in the Z97 chipset, also support this improved raid element?

Maybe. In theory they do cause Intel says so in their documentation:

http://www.intel.com/support/chipsets/imsm/sb/CS-009337.htm#raid1

The performance of a RAID 1 array is greater than that of a single drive because data can be read from multiple disks - the original and the mirror - simultaneously. Disk writes do not realize the same benefit because data must first be written to one drive, then mirrored to the other.

However apparently it varies by chipset and maybe controller and presumably driver version. Some chipsets have faster reads with RAID 1, some are the same (no speed improvement) and some are actually slower in RAID 1. So you'll need to do some research.

https://communities.intel.com/thread/32279
https://communities.intel.com/thread/22055
https://communities.intel.com/thread/30352

Also, my work computer just died, and they've given me some leeway in what to get for a work computer that can support at 4-6 drives. Do you guys think this is a good candidate:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00K2MAU5Q/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

I know its technically a 'gamer' motherboard, but without spending dumb amounts of money on a server motherboard, it looks like gaming motherboards have the versatility needed.

What kind of computer do you have now? Does your 4 - 6 drive requirement include a DVD-ROM drive or is that +1?

[Engels]

Thanks for the reply Trippy. I'll check into that. With regards to my work computer,  my current desire is to have 1 DVD/CD, 2 SSDs, one with Linux and another with some Windows varietal, and then two  high capacity drives for software repositories on one, backups on another. So, a total of 5 SATA ports in total.

[Lucas]

Dat pricetag for the Nvidia GTX 970    (especially for those who still mount a Nvidia 500 or 600)

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-gtx-980-970-maxwell,27707.html

But I think I might go even lower when the 960 comes out; first, around Febraury, I'll upgrade other specs of my aging PC (I still have an i7-920 and other components from the 2008-2009 timeframe, except my Nvidia 560GTX), then go for an higher graphic card sometime later.

[apocrypha]

Dat pricetag for the Nvidia GTX 970    (especially for those who still mount a Nvidia 500 or 600)

Yup, I hit the button this morning as soon as I saw the prices. 560Ti to be replaced with 970 tomorrow and hopefully I'll be bale to make more use of my monitors 1440p resolution :)

[Miasma]

That's a confusing price, 780s cost more than that so are the 900s a budget line or something?

Edit: nvm they have a review up now.  I guess the 970 is almost as good as the 780.  Less power and quieter too...

Geese I almost went out and bought a 780 a few days ago, man would I have been pissed off at myself.

[Teleku]

So I to have decided its time I updated my aging PC, which I built in 2008.  I remain impressed that it still can basically play any game out there at a good graphics level without issue even in 2014 (a shelf life unheard of back when I first started building PC's).  But if I'm going to the land of no internet and quarantines (west Africa), I should probably build a kick ass rig to play within my fortress of solitude.

I'm basically going off of the suggestions made previously for Azazel as a baseline (with maybe some downgrades since I don't need to spend quite that much money).  I see however that NVidea (As people mentioned) just launched some new cards and the 970 now seems like the best deal.  So my main question is:  Has anything else changed, or will potentially change in the near future (say, within a month or so)?  New hardware releases that will be better than the current suggestions at similar price points?  Else I will continue using the previous recommendations, sans the graphics card.

[Trippy]

Yes other things have changed -- Intel has released Haswell-E with DDR4 RAM and a new chipset -- but they are all super expensive right now.

[Jimbo]

http://pcpartpicker.com/guide/v7Xscf/1200-gaming-build

I'm glad I waited! Almost the same build I'm kicking around, but I swapped a few items and I'm re-using my power supply.

[Cyrrex]

Teleku - I was recently more or less doing the exact same thing.  Had a PC from a few years back that was still actually able to run more or less everything, but wanted to upgrade anyway because reasons.  Technically, I have a much better PC now, but the one thing that really makes a difference is a good SSD.  Make sure you get one, and make sure it is a good one.  HUGE difference to overall performance, where new CPUs and GPUs are really only incrementally better.  Honestly, CPU and GPU development over the last 5 years or so has been really disappointing.

[Teleku]

So that Samsung SSD mentioned before is considered "a good one"?

Also, whats the proper way to use an SSD?  Do I just install the OS on it, and leave the rest of the space empty?  Or can I install other programs on it and not take a performance hit?  Do I need to install any programs I actually want to run faster on it (including games)? 

[apocrypha]

Most programs including games benefit only slightly from being on an SSD. You get the most bang for your buck by having just the OS on one. Don't forget that Windows increases the amount of disk space it needs over time with things like /Appdata/USER/ folders so you want more space than you initially think for it.

That said, SSDs are pretty cheap these days so having a 2nd one for things that you want that extra bit of performance from isn't a big deal. I've got Win7 taking up 50Gb of a 120Gb SSD and a 2nd 120GB SSD for a few games that load slowly (Skyrim for example) and some scratch disc space for Photoshop. Everything else runs on HDDs.

Regarding the GTX970 I can vouch for it being an awesome card. I'm running one on a relatively old system, a Core i7 920 with 4Gb RAM, and I'm running things like Elite: Dangerous, Skyrim, Metro: Last Light at 2560x1440 with pretty high detail settings and AA etc and getting 50-60 fps consistently.

[Cyrrex]

Yeah, the Samsung SSD I have seems like a nice upgrade over the Kingston one I had.

OS is the top priority for the SSD, and then all the programs you use a lot, but I basically put all my games on it as well (I rarely ever have more than a few installed at a time, so it is easy for me).  As Apoc mentions, it doesn't seem to have quite as dramatic an impact on games, though there is a small impact, and they sure as hell load faster.  But in general, the SSD just make general computing more snappy.  Browsers and windows open up instantly.  Same for video programs and other apps.  Startup and Shutdown is waaaay faster.  These are the kind of things you don't realize you are missing out on until you have it.  After I gave my old SSD to the boy, I went back to a traditional HDD...for about a week, and I couldn't stand it any more.  Hence the Samsung.  I also splurged for the 256 gig model.  Seems well worth it, considering how much space Windows ends up taking up.

[Teleku]

Awesome, I'll certainly go that route.  SSD's were just becoming a thing when I last built my system, but the price was still way to prohibitive to justify at that point for me.

Edit:  Actually, for my next question:  So, what if I lost my Windows 7 DVD with the product code on it?  Anyway to retrieve that?  I reeeeaaaalllly don't want to install windows 8.

[Cyrrex]

Instead of answering that question directly, I will say that I have purchased something like 3 or 4 different licenses for Windows 7 over the years (couple laptops, couple pre-built desktops).  I have about the same number of machines operating in my house.  I will be god damned if I ever go out of my way to procure another version of Windows 7.  They have already received the appropriate amount of money from me, and I will gladly "procure" new versions via other means whenever I need to do a reinstall.

If they can't bother to give me product/license codes, then they can go stuff things up their buttholes.

[Trippy]

Awesome, I'll certainly go that route.  SSD's were just becoming a thing when I last built my system, but the price was still way to prohibitive to justify at that point for me.

For Samsungs the Pro is the one to get, not the Evo.

Edit:  Actually, for my next question:  So, what if I lost my Windows 7 DVD with the product code on it?  Anyway to retrieve that?  I reeeeaaaalllly don't want to install windows 8.

Get a utility that can find and decrypt the key that's stored in the registry. Note that if your Windows 7 is an OEM copy (not the full retail copy) you might not be able to activate it on a new machine.

http://pcsupport.about.com/od/productkeysactivation/tp/topkeyfinder.htm

[Phildo]

Protip: always register your software (Windows, Acrobat, Office, etc).  I can't tell you how much time I've spent at work hunting down lost licenses after some client system gets virusy and I have to reinstall everything.

[Teleku]

Err, maybe I did that?  I was kind of hoping when I decided to legit buy Windows 7 last time around and activate it, it would sort of remember me in the cloud somewhere/somehow.  Any way I can see if I 'registered'?  I can always try Trippys way.  I'd prefer to not go the pirate bay route since I imagine it can be a hassle to get updates and what not.


Ok, a few random questions:

I found some Crucial memory that looks good.  Very low latency scores, priced decently, and I've always had good luck with Crucial.  Anything that makes this not look good compared to others?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148663

Looking at motherboards, I kind of liked this one.  Any reason some of the Asus boards mentioned before (or any other boards) could be better?  I've never used this brand before.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157500

What the good god damn fuck is the difference between the i7-4790 and i7-4770?  On new egg they have those two processors at the exact same price.  But the i7-4790 seems to be faster/better by every metric.  What gives?

Though really for that matter......will I notice any difference between an i7 and i5?  I'm using a first gen i7 right now that is still going strong over 6 years later, so I'm hesitant to 'downgrade' to the lesser model.  Does hyper threading actually matter now?  heh.

[Trippy]

I found some Crucial memory that looks good.  Very low latency scores, priced decently, and I've always had good luck with Crucial.  Anything that makes this not look good compared to others?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820148663

Looks fine.

Looking at motherboards, I kind of liked this one.  Any reason some of the Asus boards mentioned before (or any other boards) could be better?  I've never used this brand before.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813157500

ASRock was spun-off from Asus and was later acquired by Pegatron, an Asus company, which was then spun-off from Asus. Asus, Gigabyte, ASRock, and MSI are the largest motherboard manufacturers, in that order.

What the good god damn fuck is the difference between the i7-4790 and i7-4770?  On new egg they have those two processors at the exact same price.  But the i7-4790 seems to be faster/better by every metric.  What gives?

As yields go up Intel will refresh their product lines with faster versions that sell at the exact same price point. The i7-4770 was released in 2013 and the i7-4790 is the 2014 version of the 4770. Same specs other than a small speed bump. Same price.

http://ark.intel.com/products/75122/Intel-Core-i7-4770-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-3_90-GHz
http://ark.intel.com/products/80806/Intel-Core-i7-4790-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_00-GHz

Though really for that matter......will I notice any difference between an i7 and i5?  I'm using a first gen i7 right now that is still going strong over 6 years later, so I'm hesitant to 'downgrade' to the lesser model.  Does hyper threading actually matter now?  heh.

Depends on what you run.

[Sky]

I'm quite tempted to get the vanilla clocked EVGA 970 dual-fan air cooled unit, because it's actually in stock for close to MSRP somewhere.

I'd like to buy the MSI gamer edition because MSI (in my experience) has far better stock cooling and I've had a long string of good EVGA hardware with terrible cooling and reviews say the vanilla EVGA 970 doesn't put sinks on the memory controller, which is what fried TWO of my 8800s back in the day. I could try and see if my old Accelero 3rd party cooler could be shoehorned onto it (from my 460).

Yeah, I said 460. I'm still running a pair in SLI. I was chuckling when backtracking through Newegg's order history drop-down...I added the second 460 in fall 2011, hah. So yeah, the 970 is sounding good, if pairing it with an i5 2500k @ 4GHz and a PCI 2.0 (x16) wouldn't hobble it too much. Then in a year or two look at new mobo/cpu/ram/sli mebbe. I'm concerned about the cooling because with the older pc I'd definitely be pushing the gpu as hard as she'll take it...and the MSI Twin Frozr on my second 460 is about twice as loud as my 4rd party cooler on the EVGA card...and the EVGA 970 is louder than the current Frozr 5 or whatever.

Anyway, the MSI is very out of stock. Boo.

[Cyrrex]

I upgraded my i5 2500k, but am still convinced that it will more or less run anything just fine and dandy from a gaming pov.  You'll get a huge leap upgrading to a 970.

[Sky]

I think I'd rather put the money into a new gpu that is future compatible, as my mobo (a nice MSI p67) only supports a small cpu upgrade to i7 3770k, so that would be a new mobo/cpu/ram deal and way more expensive than just $330-350 and I'd still be hobbled by the old sli gpus.

My concern is more about buying into another EVGA card because I'm impatient vs waiting it out for an MSI. I'm rolling over a couple accounts and it frees up a few hundred bucks in interest, plus I can tuck the purchase over the next week or so into a zero interest balance :) So the timing is good if Amazon ends up charging me in the next week or so, which is dicey. But seeing as I bought my first 460 in Oct 2010, it's a decision I'll probably be living with for four years.

I remember building computers on a 2 year schedule, full rebuilds :)

[Miasma]

I'd like to buy the MSI gamer edition because MSI (in my experience) has far better stock cooling and I've had a long string of good EVGA hardware with terrible cooling and reviews say the vanilla EVGA 970 doesn't put sinks on the memory controller, which is what fried TWO of my 8800s back in the day. I could try and see if my old Accelero 3rd party cooler could be shoehorned onto it (from my 460).

The newer EVGA cooling system they call ACX looks like it has been very popular, a lot of people go out of their way to mention how good the cooling is now.  They seem to have incorporated it into most of their cards.

[Sky]

Dammit, it went out of stock since midnight.

[Teleku]

Thanks a ton for all the help Trippy (and everybody else)!

I think this is my final build out.  Anybody with opinions on it please speak out:

http://pcpartpicker.com/p/TF9xTW

I guess the graphics card could change if MSI keeps staying out to stock (but I've read a ton of good reviews of that card).  If the EVGA cooling system is new/improved like Miasma mentioned, I could probably cave on that.  If any of their cards can stay in stock longer than an hour or two.....


Anyways, two finals concerns.  

First, I could just take my wireless card from my current machine and put it into the new one (Its like, a wireless N card from 2008).  If I was to spend the money to buy some new wireless ac card, would I notice any difference?  I sometimes worry that lag spikes I get might be due to haveing a shitty old wireless card or something, but download speeds are still very very fast.  Does the card make much of a difference, or will some old card from 6 years ago still work just as well as a new one?

Second, I'm wondering if I can fortify my will enough to wait a month or two for prices to drop.  Not only is the holiday seasons approaching (And thus deals), but as Trippy mentioned Intel just released new shit (Thats way to expensive), which I'm hoping will drive down prices of the current stuff.  But I'm not sure how long it will take.  Do prices tend to drop fast in these situations over a month or so?  If waiting till November only saves me $100 or something then screw it.  Want power now!