X-Com/UFO: Enemy Unknown

[Azazel]

ok, I know it's a relic, but is there a version of this thing that will work on a modern PC without needing all kinds of crazy DOS windows and slowcomputerdown things?

Murgos' post in the Cyberpunk thread got me thinking about it again, and I'd love to get hold of it somehow. On a similar note, I know that UFO: Aftershock is infected by the Starforce. Is the other, earlier one, UFO: Aftermath (aka Freedom Ridge) any good compared to the original X-Com? Turn-based?

If they just did a "Pirates!" with the original, I'd be quite happy.

[Wolf]

When Aftermath came out I was still freelancing as a "journalist" so I had to write about it. I don't remember much, except I didn't like it one bit and basicly said it was teh suck. I got a ton of hatemail from old UFO fanbois that said it was an OMGWTF game (which it wasn't by any account). So if you dig the old ones you'd prolly like it. I never liked the old ones either :P

[Azazel]

Ta. I'll check it out sometime. So many games, so little time. 

[Ironwood]

Aftermath was awful.

You do NOT put in real time if you also decide to put in no AI whatsoever.

I mean, the soldiers wouldn't shoot back, crouch, or seek cover at all.

And when you're pausing that much to tell them to do so, it's turn based.  Sorry, but it is.

A fucking waste of a game.


Oh and Incidentally, I run the original UFO fine on XP.

[Murgos]

There have been several re-issues of X-Com over the years, the most recent ones have been partially updated to run on modern systems.  There was a game pack a few years back that had that updated version of it included.

[Azazel]

Aftermath was awful.
You do NOT put in real time if you also decide to put in no AI whatsoever.
Oh and Incidentally, I run the original UFO fine on XP.

Um, so is it turn-based? Or real-time?

Or can you set it up to play turn-based after combat is initiated, like Fallout Tactics? I like Turn-based with AP. It's the tabletop gamer in me.

Sadly, I never had the original UFO/X-Com on PC. I had it on Playstation 1, and my brother had it on the Amiga. I've found it impossible to find in stores, and eBay is generally a very shitty blank. Including the international ones.


this is about the best I've found. Sad, ain't it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/UFO-Enemy-Unknown-Windows-PC-Game-Emailed_W0QQitemZ8275250130QQcategoryZ11053QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[ahoythematey]

If you can handle not having the overworld parts, Rebelstar: Tactical Command is probably the easiest avenue for an xcom quick fix.

[Phred]

If you can handle not having the overworld parts, Rebelstar: Tactical Command is probably the easiest avenue for an xcom quick fix.

Or Jagged Alliance 2 if you somehow missed it the first time around.

[Jain Zar]

X Com Terror from the Deep CD edition plays perfectly in Dosbox on my old Windows PC.
Im not quite sure how it would run on the Mac version since nobody seems capable of making a decent frontend for it.

But Rebelstar Tactical Command is a nice choice for an X Com fix, as are the 2 Pathway to Glory games on the N Gage.
(Buy the system off ebay for a song and play em.  Kickass tactical buttwhooping the way you remember, cept with Nazis,
Italians, and Japanese WW2 troopers instead of cute widdle Sectoids  and THOSE COCKSUCKING BRAIN THINGS THAT
KEEP TURNING MY DUDES INTO ZOMBIES WHO EXPLODE INTO MORE BRAIN THINGS IF ALL THE MOLLECULAR
CONTROL CORNHOLING WASN'T ENOUGH PAIN..... erm...)

[Megrim]

Oh how i loved my Cryssalids and Tenticulats. My my my, why don't they make bad guys like that any more.

Azazel, am i right in understanding that you are unable to aquire a version of UFO/Xcom?

[Azazel]

If you can handle not having the overworld parts, Rebelstar: Tactical Command is probably the easiest avenue for an xcom quick fix.

Or Jagged Alliance 2 if you somehow missed it the first time around.

Haven't heard of Rebelstar, I do have JA2 floating around in the shelf behind me somewhere. But the thing is I'm feeling the need for the whole X-Com experience. The killing aliens to steal their guns and research their tech. The stockpiling of their weapons then selling them on the global market to make money. And firing explosives into petrol stations which may or may not have aliens in them.

Azazel, am i right in understanding that you are unable to aquire a version of UFO/Xcom?

You are correct. Outside of playing lucky dip with international ebay sellers for versions that may or may not work, it's just not around anywhere locally I can find.

[Yegolev]

Do not play UFO: Afterbirth, it is horrible.  Not just for being pausable-real-time, it is also terribly buggy and just shitty in general.  At least based on the demo I attempted to play.

Someone should mention that Rebelstar is a GBA game.  Dumbass Gollops.  Well, at least it wasn't another Master of Magic.

I think JA2 Gold works just peachy on XP.

But the thing is I'm feeling the need for the whole X-Com experience. The killing aliens to steal their guns and research their tech. The stockpiling of their weapons then selling them on the global market to make money. And firing explosives into petrol stations which may or may not have aliens in them.

Werd.  Why the hell isn't someone working on this?  Must be an alien conspiracy.

[Azazel]

Just got out JA2, I don't think it's the gold version though. Game disc and install disc. Dated 1999 on the copyright. I believe they came from one of those Take-Two Interactive boxes from a few years ago that had 2-3 games in each for au$20, and having read a "like x-com, kinda" review of JA2 back then, I picked it up.

My old save died when I had a power surge=HDD meltdown several years ago though, not tha I got real far. I think I bought it during my first EQ1 hiatus, when I suddenly started buying 1-3 games a week for 6 months or so. 

Ah, if Rebelstar is GBA, I'll give it a miss for now. I've just started using the thing again after letting it sit in the drawer for 2 1/2 years, to make my commuteless painful, and Advance Wars is the game of the moment. I also picked up AW2, to start once I finish the first one, and FF Tactics Advance. Not that I recall where my save was, but the three of those should get me through the next two months until I put the GBA away again for a long long time. Unused GB-Player on the rarely-used cube notwithstanding.

Why no new X-Com? I'd guess it's considered a niche gametype since you can't update the rosters and slap the new year on it, or shoot people in their realtime physics-rendered faces from a POV perspective. Also, I guess the two new UFO games are considered the new X-Com. No idea what level of success (or not) they achieved. Though the second one is infected by The Starforce.

[Yegolev]

A new X-COM that took advantage of physics would be both a natural progression of the series and totally kick-ass.  If you didn't kill aliens by collapsing buildings, you really missed out.  Finally getting one of those alien blasters that let me punch through walls really made my day.

[Azazel]

Well, I meant ragdoll physics a la the latest FPS du jour.

[Megrim]

First off, if you haven't already: http://dosbox.sourceforge.net

Secondly, check your messages.

[Jain Zar]

A new X-COM that took advantage of physics would be both a natural progression of the series and totally kick-ass.  If you didn't kill aliens by collapsing buildings, you really missed out.  Finally getting one of those alien blasters that let me punch through walls really made my day.

Well, Silent Storm kinda does that, but depending on location of purchase you have Starforce to worry about.

As to Rebelstar being on the GBA?

ITS A GBA TITLE.  BUY NOW OR NEVER SEE IT AGAIN IF IT ISNT A NINTENDO OR KIDDIE LISENCED GAME.

[Azazel]

Thanks Megrim. Much appreciated for the link. I'll check it out.

JZ: I'll keep an eye out for Rebelstar, didn't realise it was essnetially namco-makes-x-com-for-gba. Although it already seems to be in the "finding this will be a challenge" category. Though I seem to find these games eventually. At least when they're from the current gen of hardware..

[eldaec]

Get yourself an 8-bit emulator and download Laser Squad from somewhere, and find a (rl offline) friend to play two player imo.

Original Rebelstar is perhaps just a bit too old school.

Modern Rebelstar just isn't right.

Laser Squad Nemesis is too limited in terms of your equiment options and win conditions.

The x-coms were nice for the campaign aspect, but ultimately had you slogging through too many random maps imo.

Also, Lords of Chaos.

[Yegolev]

JZ: I'll keep an eye out for Rebelstar, didn't realise it was essnetially namco-makes-x-com-for-gba.

The nice part is that it is actually "the-brothers-who-made-original-x-com-makes-x-com-for-gba".  Codo Games is where Nick and Julian Gollop stick thumbs up their asses these days.  However, we have something of theirs I might try right hyoh... right after I beat Oblivion.

[Azazel]

Get yourself an 8-bit emulator and download Laser Squad from somewhere, and find a (rl offline) friend to play two player imo.

Also, Lords of Chaos.

One day, when I have a bigger house, I'll be able to dig out the old Amigas and play Laser Squad.

I almost bought LS:Nemesis right now since their page said US$10, but the clicky goes to a MMOG-style subscription page, with no mention of $10. Maybe later when I have time to try and play online 40k.

Good to see that those guys are still doing stuff, though I'd like to see them do a new X-Com.

[eldaec]

Nemesis has been stripped way too far down, I wouldn't bother tbh.

Also, people need to stop calling Rebelstar "X-com for a GBA". Because you are all becoming that guy who keeps talking about how the Warhammer world is lifted from Warcraft. X-com is Rebelstar for the PC. Not the other way around.

[Azazel]

Dunno, I never heard of Rebelstar before this but I'll happily take your word for it. I first got friendly with X-Com (on PS1, yet) after hearing that it was like Laser Squad on the Amiga. Which I was still using until 1996. When I got my Mac. *cough*

[Sky]

Newbler, x-com was clearly stolen from my childhood game of marines-n-aliens that we played on the playground. I STOLE YOUR ALIEN WIFFLEBAT TECH, BITCHES!

[Descended]

Nemesis has been stripped way too far down, I wouldn't bother tbh.

Also, people need to stop calling Rebelstar "X-com for a GBA". Because you are all becoming that guy who keeps talking about how the Warhammer world is lifted from Warcraft. X-com is Rebelstar for the PC. Not the other way around.

Actually, more than anything else, Rebelstar for the GBA just isn't what I wanted:  the original X-com with multiplayer skirmish and updated graphics.

Exact. Same. Combat. Mechanics. Please.

Ok, I lied.  That is second on my list -- what I really, really want is true line of sight, reaction shot enabled, deformable terrain combat on interesting, randomly generated maps (X-com) combined with the turn ordering system and combat character option complexity of Final Fantasy Tactics.

*Jizz*

[Jain Zar]

Combat pretty much IS X Com.  Snap Shots, overwatch, destructible terrain, morale, psionics, ammo clips..

[eldaec]

Combat pretty much IS X Com.  Snap Shots, overwatch, destructible terrain, morale, psionics, ammo clips..

The history goes...

8 bit Rebelstar -> Laser Squad -> X-Com -> Console Rebelstar
                                   I                     I
                                  V                    V
                    Lords of Chaos          Nemesis


All made by the Gollops, all with the sort of features you describe (though all very similar to any number of table-top games ofc)

[Khaldun]

Not only is X-Com my favorite game of all time, but the basic genre of turn-based isometrically-represented squad-level combat (X-Com, JA, SS) is my favorite computer game genre, hands down. I like games that border on the genre, like Freedom Force, or some of the old-style D&D RPGs like the original Pool of Radiance.

So I guess my meta-question is, why are there so few of these games? Are they somehow peculiarly difficult to design for some reason?

[Murgos]

Because if you spend a year making an FPS you have a market of millions and if you spend a year making an tactical turn based isometric squad-based combat game you have a market in the 10's of thousands (maybe low 100k's).

What is the lowest common denominator for $1000 and the win Alex?

edit: so with a market of millions you don't even have to make a very good FPS and you can make a profit.  On the other hand if you don't make an AWESOME tactical turn-based strat game your company collapses and you file for bankruptcy.

Too much risk, too little reward and too much effort...

[Khaldun]

I guess, but I wonder if there isn't a kind of path-dependence here.

E.g., a lot of gamers will buy an FPS or a RTS because it's what they know, because they readily understand the structure of gameplay in those games. Because there have been a lot of those games. I keep thinking back to how RTS games established themselves, though. They once were unfamiliar to the market. They broke in partly because early RTS were really good games but also well-marketed ones. A lot of the squad-based tactical games, on the other hand, have come from poorly positioned development houses, and in some cases, have been kind of flawed if enjoyable in their underlying designs. (SS, for example).

I just wonder a bit what would happen if something with the addictive beauty of X-Com came out, had a friendly or intuitive UI design, and had a big marketing budget behind it. I can easily imagine such a scenario leading to the "discovery" of the genre and of it becoming a more common template for design.

Unless there's just some fundamental AI problem embedded in this kind of design. RTS games, for example, also took off because to some extent they were a way to hack around the difficulty of turn-based AI.

[Descended]

I have little hope for an explosion of the X-com related genre for much the same reason as Murgos:  the average human's reward/response system isn't even close to being set up to see this kind of game and think 'ah, this looks to be my best choice.'  I would pay $250 for a game in this genre that was even better than I could imagine.  The problem is you couldn't get investors to believe there are enough people like me to fund hiring of enough brilliant designers, skilled software project managers, and competent programmers, artists, and writers to make the X-com style game that would profer the profit potential of a well-made FPS.  And this is assuming that whatever development studio head the investors hand their money to doesn't screw it all up by rushing the project or making bad hires for critical positions.

[Sky]

I hate RTS. Love turn-based. But as Murgos mentioned, it's all about the LCD and money. It's not that games that require more patience and thought aren't good (and Civ has certainly done ok), it's that most people don't have patience or intelligence.

Has anyone mentioned Fallout Tactics? That was a decent turn-based shooter, but it always bored me after a while.

[Yegolev]

Has anyone mentioned Fallout Tactics? That was a decent turn-based shooter, but it always bored me after a while.

I did like that one, but I guess the near-total lack of story or game outside combat made it untasty.  Never finished because - well, I don't finish anything, but it didn't engage me the way the "real" Fallouts did.

[Jain Zar]

All it takes is a decent marketing push.  It worked for FF7, and made a niche genre a decent selling genre.

[Murgos]

All it takes is a decent marketing push.  It worked for FF7, and made a niche genre a decent selling genre.

I have to raise an eyebrow at this statement.  The premise that console RPG's were niche before FF7 is complete bullshit you just made up on the fly.