Predictions: 1m+ players 3 days out; how about in January 2013?

[Tannhauser]

Voss.  Voss is a beautiful disaster. 

[Sjofn]

I haven't done Imperial Voss, but I enjoy Republic Voss very much.

[Lantyssa]

Imperial Voss is... boring.  Class stories aren't bad, but the shared content is dull, dull, dull, dull, dull.

[Phred]

If you're game is based on Dungeon grinding, then you better have a LFG mechanism that's ready at launch.  I've only seen like 4 FPs and that's with me using a higher level toon and just running through them on ez-mode.

The problem seems to be expectations. I don't think this game was meant to be based on dungeon grinding in the slightest. Or it it was the designers were on damn good drugs. Really, the experience is pitiful in an instance run compared to WoW and what is the point of yet another orange drop? At best it saves me having to update 3 mods on my current armor. So basically they've made it pointless to do an FP more than once just to see it. I'm bored enough with their leveling that I'd love to level through instances a bit but even if I could find a group it's pretty pointless as they've devalued kill experience almost as badly as LoTRO did.

[Simond]

Well, yes, that's the point. Glad to see that you agree that EVE has more interesting stories than SWTOR.

[Riggswolfe]

I agree with the first paragraph, I don't disagree with the second but don't agree with it either.  Why does everyone (not you specifically, but everyone in general) assume that Star Wars is enough to impart stickiness? Sure, it counts for box sales and how many copies ordered by retailers but I believe it counts for squat in retention.  It didn't help SWG either and that was a far superior game despite all the problems. The theme parks in SWG had better stories too, with cameos by Luke, Vader etc despite not having full voice and glitter and flash. Even NGE was a better experience. Even on this forum (or maybe one of its precursors) before SWG was launched everyone was talking about how they believed it would be the first million sold MMO. And it ended badly.

Wait, SWG was superior? Even the NGE was superior? This has to be a troll. Somebody tell me it's a troll or else I just don't even know what to say to this. I think one thing this game succeeds at is being better than SWG. (A low bar to clear I know...)

[Paelos]

The one thing I remember most about SWG was people saying, "Man, why didn't they set this in the KOTOR universe? At least then we could have Jedi and it wouldn't be stupid."

[eldaec]

It would have been better if Bioware had put out 3 good single player RPG's.

I just can't agree. Sjofn and I couldn't play through those RPGs together the way we can SWTOR. That's tremendously important, to me.

I can see that EA have something here, but part of what makes swtor disappointing is that it is incredibly timid about building on this. The game does nothing to foster this experience, no sidekicking, large power differences with each level, no tools to matchmake. I can't imagine more than a tiny percentage of players can experience swtor this way beyond marriages and roommates.

[Surlyboi]

SWG was superior insofar as it tried a different formula with the skill-based specs.

The NGE was a fucking disaster.

[eldaec]

what is the point of yet another orange drop?

Exactly the same point as any new model dropping in a game with an appearance tab.

The problem is once again they don't follow through and make this a unique system, the problem isn't how oranges enter the system, its how mods enter the system - most mods end up being store bought.

That, and there are no interesting mods or effects to drop anyway, equipment is strictly better or worse than other equipment on the basis of a single stat hardcoded per class.

Kotor has a significantly more interesting equipment system and that game is only intended to last 20-40 hours.

[Sir T]

Eve 'stories' were created entirely by the players, not by Eve. 

Not entirely. The underlying mechanics of taking and defending space give rise to player driven actions (and stories).

I don't disagree with that, but that's why I used the example of D&D.  It's entirely player-driven.  There's nothing wrong with that of course, but the original statement I took issue with was that Eve tells a better story.  No it doesn't.  Eve tells a terrible story, the worst of any MMO I've ever tried.  That some people have managed to have their own memorable drama within the context of Eve doesn't make Eve itself a great story.

There was a time when there was stories told by the devs in Eve that affected the in game game.  There was a long story about the heir to the Amarr Empire, for example, that pissed off CCP as the players were supposed to hate the pretender o the throne and fight him but they all wound up siding with him. Rather that accept that and say whatever, CCP blew him up.

Anyway, the dev driven stories were utter and complete shit, not to mention naked givaways to CCPs fav alliances. Ask the roleplayers in eve. There were constant promises to provide more roleplay content, but eventually the roleplayers got sick of bieng ignored and quit en masse.

By comparison to eve, sto is Shakespeare

[Kageru]

Developer generated and acted "stories" have failed in every MMO I've seen them attempted in. Maybe it worked in some tiny mud when the audience was tiny and deeply dedicated to the culture of the server, but that's long gone. It's one of those ideas that sounds good on paper but doesn't scale.

WoW did it reasonably well by programming the progression of the story. The "virus" event, the holiday events, the opening of Ahn Quiraj is the way to do it.

By comparison to eve, sto is Shakespeare

Shakespeare is a really bad game, it always ends the same and when you try and interact you get thrown out of the theatre.

[Wolf]

Empire Taris is a fucking blight and I'm not sure how I managed to get through it twice. It is easily the shittiest planet I've done.

It is, isn't it? And I was looking forward to it so much, since I did Republic Balmora and that was so cool when you had previously done it the other way around. Taris was just shitty shit. Actually the bonus series was pretty decent.

[eldaec]

Developer stories worked ok in AC.

Occasionally in EQ, though not so much the event driven stuff obviously. Sleeper was a thing, the dungeon opening stuff in WoW was of course copy/pasted from EQ.

CoX events otoh work fine, and the storyarc system, and the task force stories, both got player engagement.

[UnSub]

There's a Matrix Online dev story somewhere that talks about the difficulty in doing live player events, particularly if the devs want the players to drive it. You need a "GM" up and ready to go with a ton of script options, hope that they can handle getting several hundred /tells that just get in the way of running the event and even then players can go off on completely unexpected tangents.

And, if you try to do it quietly, such as giving a player a vital item and involving them in the narrative, they talked about spending 15 minutes priming someone only for them to go, "Thanks, gtg" and logging out before the event started.

It's a big expense that drives a group of players wild, but has a poor pay-off (especially since all your off-peak / non-participating players feel left out).

[eldaec]

Live events don't scale.

But random triggered events work fine (cox, rift)

So does changing the gameworld to tell a story (cox, ac, atitd, even eq)

[apocrypha]

(especially since all your off-peak / non-participating players feel left out).

This is a major issue actually. For most ways of doing these events, and for most games the result is that the vast majority of your players feel left out. This was certainly the case in EVE when they tried a few events - that or as soon as news of something happening spread through the grapevine then the areas where they were happening became massively flooded with people and crashed the node.

[Merusk]

Yeah, even in these days of widespread FRAPS and other game-recording tools it's still too small a payoff for too narrow a segment of the playerbase.  Scripted events and trailers all the way. 

Plus if it's Mobs doing a scripted event you get a lot less pissed than a GM ignoring you so they don't go off script.  I remember my little RP guild of Dark Elves being very frustrated with the Fiona Vie/ Innoruuk event EQ did.

Though my warrior still has the club she was given by a lost little sand giant way back in '99 during an EQ event when they encouraged interaction.  Great experience that I still remember well but the only reason they pulled it off was they were flagged as immune.  Heh.

[schild]

Going back a page - WoW delivered NOTHING for Diablo players, in any capacity. I don't know why anyone would even come near comparing the two. Loot color does not an experience make.

I stand by my original statement that this game would be an ill-managed, over-produced pile of shit. After poking around it a tiny bit a couple weeks ago and then watching a few people play while talking to each other over headsets, I still have no clue why anyone was playing it past the first month or how anyone ended up buying it. January doldrums I guess.

Star Wars Galaxies was at least Ultima Online's retarded cousin.

The only response to WoW in space is:

[Reg]

I can't believe this thoroughly researched and insightful review isn't on the front page!

[Lakov_Sanite]

Yet still accurate

[schild]

[Reg]

Well, I'm ahead now and it's a well known fact that the guy with the biggest post number automatically wins! 

[El Gallo]

Diablo was my gateway drug to MMOs.  I was blissfully unaware of online play when I bought D1.  That led me to AC and EQ, which was basically the end of me as a worthwhile human being.  It's like I jammed some sort of crystal in my head and was never the same again. 

[Nevermore]

It's like I jammed some sort of crystal in my head and was never the same again. 

[Lakov_Sanite]

God damn I loved that show.  Farscape MMO is needed.

[Fordel]

Not really.

[Outlawedprod]

My server may feel dead but Sheldon is probably playing somewhere.
http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20120308-0

[Merusk]

I just saw that episode and all I could think of was "I wonder how much EA paid for this."   Whoever does CBS' product-placement for that show is really spot-on, though.  Red Dead Redemption was featured in the episode that followed and I frequently lust after some of the T-shirts Sheldon wears.

[Sky]

[iron eyes cody.gif]

I want a RDR pc port.

[Evildrider]

I just saw that episode and all I could think of was "I wonder how much EA paid for this."   Whoever does CBS' product-placement for that show is really spot-on, though.  Red Dead Redemption was featured in the episode that followed and I frequently lust after some of the T-shirts Sheldon wears.

Couldn't have been any more than the Age of Conan episode.

[UnSub]

I just saw that episode and all I could think of was "I wonder how much EA paid for this."   Whoever does CBS' product-placement for that show is really spot-on, though.  Red Dead Redemption was featured in the episode that followed and I frequently lust after some of the T-shirts Sheldon wears.

Couldn't have been any more than the Age of Conan episode.

Are BBT's raitings higher now, or were they higher during AoC? Because that would also help determine the product placement costs.

EDIT: What I've always found interesting about BBT is that they keep showing NCsoft merchandise, but don't show off the games.

[Merusk]

I just saw that episode and all I could think of was "I wonder how much EA paid for this."   Whoever does CBS' product-placement for that show is really spot-on, though.  Red Dead Redemption was featured in the episode that followed and I frequently lust after some of the T-shirts Sheldon wears.

Couldn't have been any more than the Age of Conan episode.

Did the AoC episode revolve almost entirely around AoC? I only started watching last year so I've only seen the first few seasons in syndication and haven't seen them all.

Are BBT's raitings higher now, or were they higher during AoC? Because that would also help determine the product placement costs.

EDIT: What I've always found interesting about BBT is that they keep showing NCsoft merchandise, but don't show off the games.

Google tells me they beat American Idol and are now Thursday 8pm's most popular show with a 5.2.
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/tv-ratings-big-bang-theory-american-idol-294805

On the NCSoft thing, I've noticed that, too.  I expect that's because NCSoft only paid for the rights for first broadcast or a time.  Expect to see those digitally swapped-out when the contract ends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4upslJhSW68

[Soln]

Just logged in.  No one in Guild.  Went to Hoth, cause that's my level.  3 people there.  Logged off.  Guess everyone's at cap or thinking they're playing an RPG.  Fug sakes this game.  Had way more fun mid-30's alone in Dustwallow Marsh.  It's less than 3 months from launch.

[Fordel]

ME3's release tanked my server/guild population. Even tanked my implant sales dammit!