War

[Endie]

Somebody tell me if this latest heist on the Goons is real or not.

I just finished paying off my carrier by ratting like a terrier for a month, 6 days to go til I could hop into my dread and they both get swiped :( 

On the upside, I hear they stole Angelonico too 

[Simond]

Sounds like a fair trade to me.

[Raging Turtle]

Yeah, I don't think anyone is buying the new corp theft stuff.

In other news, Fix changes standings

[JoeTF]

Endie - how the hell we're supposed to engage in any sort of discussion with you when you're crapposting like that?

Raging Turtle:
Damn you, damn you, damn you! You posted the FIX announcement one second before me:(

[Endie]

Endie - how the hell we're supposed to engage in any sort of discussion with you when you're crapposting like that?

Orders from Deadtear.  You don't mess with those.

You know, Joe, sometimes i think you don't really get goons.  However, if you feel that strongly about it i would suggest you do something more constructive, like losing half a dozen regions about it.

The most hilarious thing about that thread was watching all these people who so desperately wanted to believe it, being trolled by a 16-year-old boy.

[JoeTF]

I don't care about getting you or whatever.
In my simple way you have CAOD to troll people, even the damn SHC. Don't do it here if you want to be read agai8n.


Regarding the war updates, I heard goons are slaving themselves for hours killing huge undefended deathstarts noone but them cares about.

We in the mean time were a bit bored for few days and are now having shitload of fun killing stuff all around in EVE. Hell, we have even been to Jita.

[Endie]

In my simple way you have CAOD to troll people, even the damn SHC. Don't do it here if you want to be read agai8n.

Why don't you go back over this thread and count up the number of instances of substantive posting of news I've done, then do the same for yourself (clue, yours will be the one struggling to reach double figures) and then come back and get all holy.  Tell you what: I'll let you count LC's posts against your total!

Regarding the war updates, I heard goons are slaving themselves for hours killing huge undefended deathstarts noone but them cares about.

We in the mean time were a bit bored for few days and are now having shitload of fun killing stuff all around in EVE. Hell, we have even been to Jita.

Oooohhh, I see.  Masterstroke! We have liberated you from the need to hold space, rawr rawr moar targets :twisted: :pirate: :twisted:  You know, I'm almost sure I've heard that exact line somewhere else: maybe about twenty times from other failed alliances?  And does "having fun killing stuff" include "getting run out of Providence by notorious roleplayers CVA and hiding on a lowsec gate, before losing some ships and scarpering from there, too"?

Well, I have to admit we have fallen into your cunning trap.  We actually thought (and this is the hilarious bit)... we thought that you wanted those stations that you alarm-clocked all those 4am workday fleets for.  I for one was convinced that camping out gates with all those bored people for 18 hours straight just in case goons came to blow up the POSes that your (fairly incompetent at stront-timing and now utterly burned out) logistics people spent thousands of man-hours over a period of months fuelling was actually a sign that you didn't want us to have them.  We even thought that the fact that you were prepared to sacrifice a titan in order to hold them was in some way a sign of being keen to hold onto them!  I know!  How dumb are we?  Hell, if we knew you didn't want them you should have said!  We'd have taken them off your hands ages ago.  Hell, tell you what: we'll take some more, too!  Then you can sit in NPC stations in Delve and proclaim just exactly how liberated you feel!

And here's the kicker: all those cute little pets of yours who paid over their billions a month each on the promise that the mighty, omnipotent Bob would protect them if they were attacked, and who actually got left undefended for weeks then told to pull out, destroying once and for all the myth of Bob as being in any way special: do they think that "nobody cares about" that space?

But it turns out you didn't want those regions anyway.

[Comstar]

I hadn't even *heard* on what BoB was doing in Providence while MC was fighting and dieing in deep catch. Turns out they were attacking a very small corp that's allied to Amarr roleplayers Allience of CVA, called Paxton. Paxton was pirate(?)Anti-pirate that setup shop in a system used by BoB for moving cap ships around. BoB demanded Paxton vacate the system.

Paxton refused and had a full faction deathstar setup (cost 2 billion+?) which with the aid of CVA gunners and Paxtons own troops, held of and defeated a full scale BoB attack. BoB then left around the time MC gave up attacking IAC (and one the many reasons was because BoB wasn't helping in Catch but was trying to kill Paxton's POS).

Goonswarm likes to take the role of plucky rebels vs the giant forces of the evil bob empire (well, actually that's a role other people put on Goonswarm, not GS taking itself that seriously), but here we seem to have the genuine article.  Fun little war story.

[Simond]

Hell, we have even been to Jita.

You're moving to Jita already?

[WindupAtheist]

DAY BY DAY
KICK IT ALL THE WAY
IM NOT CAVING IN
LET ANOTHER ROUND BEGIN

LIVE TO WIN

YEAH!  LIVE!
YEAH!  WIN!

im realllly drunk and that song owns

[Endie]

DAY BY DAY
KICK IT ALL THE WAY
IM NOT CAVING IN
LET ANOTHER ROUND BEGIN

LIVE TO WIN

YEAH!  LIVE!
YEAH!  WIN!

im realllly drunk and that song owns

Too much content.  Consider breaking up into multiple posts next time.

[5150]

Yeah, I don't think anyone is buying the new corp theft stuff.

In other news, Fix changes standings

Forgive me for not 'getting' the first page of that thread (has it been edited or something) and not wanting to wade through the rest of it

What standings did FIX actually change?

[Endie]

Yeah, I don't think anyone is buying the new corp theft stuff.

In other news, Fix changes standings

Forgive me for not 'getting' the first page of that thread (has it been edited or something) and not wanting to wade through the rest of it

What standings did FIX actually change?

It's related to the MC drama that's going on, where some selected members of them and Fix may have been considering going Fuck Bob.  So a post by a fix person saying they were changing standings would get people clicking.  It's pretty poor.  Cobrabytez' one was, while still fairly slapdash, several hundred times better as a troll.

[WindupAtheist]

Too much content.  Consider breaking up into multiple posts next time.

I'm in UO guildchat listening to this 17 year old tell me about his stint in rehab in Costa Rica and how he grew some shrooms in horseshit and hid them in his underwear.  It's some funny shit.

[Simond]

Apparently, MC are genuinely not happy with BoB and honestly are trying to figure out a way for themselves to survive past the fall of BoB (which they see as inevitable, unstoppable, and happening soon). 

Maybe they should have taken some anti-BoB contracts way back when to 'prove' their independance? vv

[JoeTF]

See, your problem is that no matter hard you're trying to paint me/BoB as a losers, I really cannot find myself in being one.

We didn't want that stations? For risk of sounding cheesy here, who says we won't have them again in few months?

To clear few factual errors in your post:
They put up cynojammer on one of our logistic routes. We destroyed that cynojammer and one gang of 120 Bobbites is hardly full scale BoB attack.
Pets were defended for the duration of their rent and did not paid anything when their space become battlefield.
The means for evacuation were also provided.
We hate NPC stations in delve more than anyone else.

[Kamen]

Apparently, MC are genuinely not happy with BoB and honestly are trying to figure out a way for themselves to survive past the fall of BoB (which they see as inevitable, unstoppable, and happening soon). 

The problem being that most of the MC grunts hate the Goons, and many Goons regard MC as nothing more than an extention of BoB.  As it stands right now, after BoB goes down MC looks to be the next in line for the Goon hit parade.  MC leadership realizes that, and realizes that going neutral isn't enough to placate the Goons in the long run.

As I said before, BoB and MC are ramping up the PR spin to provide a plausible rationale for MC to take a contract against BoB.  It serves the interests of both for MC to aid in the destruction of BoB.

[Endie]

See, your problem is that no matter hard you're trying to paint me/BoB as a losers, I really cannot find myself in being one.

Well, I must say that if getting driven out of Detorid, through Omist and Tenerifis despite massing fleets in attempts to defend, then being forced to give up three more systems while your "allies" get turfed unceremoniously out of the north is part of your winning plan then you have some serious Sun Tzu shit going on right there.

We didn't want that stations? For risk of sounding cheesy here, who says we won't have them again in few months?

Waaait a second.  So when you said that goons were taking systems ("noone but them cares about") you were lying?  You do want them back?  Well, molon labe: come and get them.

To clear few factual errors in your post:
They put up cynojammer on one of our logistic routes. We destroyed that cynojammer and one gang of 120 Bobbites is hardly full scale BoB attack.
Pets were defended for the duration of their rent and did not paid anything when their space become battlefield.
The means for evacuation were also provided.
We hate NPC stations in delve more than anyone else.

Let's clear up a few factual errors in your post.

- Paxton erected a cyno jammer in their own system after Bob turned up there shooting neutrals in a NRDS region and refused to go NRDS when in that system.  Even Goons recently had the sense to observe NRDS when they collaborated.  Bob then threatened Paxton in a series of emails I saw.  Bob then hammered themselves silly against Paxton's defences for weeks before breaking sov, and were then forced to allocate resources repeatedly after that when counter-attacked.  Bob lost a very large number of very expensive ships in the effort. Check Paxton's killboard.  I know all this because my alt was involved in and present at most of those fights.  Hilariously, the net effect of the Paxton incident was MC losing their titan: we have MC forum porn which demonstrates this belief on their part.

- Pets were not defended, before or after the expiry of their rental.  Please, don't just lie or spout nonsense like that.  Rise even demanded (and got) one month of their rent back at the end, due to the laughable absence of the all-powerful, defending masters of Bob.  Corm were allowed to die with no significant show from Bob that I can remember outside one roaming gang.  Executive Outcomes went the same way.  M-Pire didn't just pay rent but had more demanded of them when they were thrown out of their systems.  SoCo were the last bob pets to get any meaningful sort of defence.  So spare it the "we stuck to our end" nonsense.

- Sure, Bob chose to evac some pets' stuff.  But not all.  Take MC, for instance: they are rather disgruntled that Bob promised to send three titans to help them evac, actually sent one in the end (Chowdown) who claimed he had connection issues and left.

- I imagine that Bob do hate NPC stations, since they and their pets are currently discovering the shortcomings of packing a meatshield of incompetent and dissillusioned losers into a small space with a big sign saying "pirates: free targets here!"  But when you are basing out of them it'll be a different story.

Look, if you go posting that you've never been happier than now that you've lost hundreds of systems and that you're finally having fun in Jita you have to expect that people will laugh: it's a cliche.

[LC]

In my simple way you have CAOD to troll people, even the damn SHC. Don't do it here if you want to be read agai8n.

Why don't you go back over this thread and count up the number of instances of substantive posting of news I've done, then do the same for yourself (clue, yours will be the one struggling to reach double figures) and then come back and get all holy.  Tell you what: I'll let you count LC's posts against your total!

DigitalCommunist




Most of your substantial news is just copied from CAOD and SHC. Will I be making good contributions if I start copying as well?


Let me try:

I have heard that MC's pilots under orders to watch out for BOB in local and not to assume they are friendly.

This is the end for BoB.

LULZ

[Endie]

In my simple way you have CAOD to troll people, even the damn SHC. Don't do it here if you want to be read agai8n.

Why don't you go back over this thread and count up the number of instances of substantive posting of news I've done, then do the same for yourself (clue, yours will be the one struggling to reach double figures) and then come back and get all holy.  Tell you what: I'll let you count LC's posts against your total!

DigitalCommunist


Most of your substantial news is just copied from CAOD and SHC. Will I be making good contributions if I start copying as well?

I don't read CAOD more than once every week, when pointed to a specific thread.  I think I have three posts on Eve-O in two years, only one with my main.  I look at ShitHeap Challenge perhaps three times a month at most, except in rare periods of high hilarity, and the fact that you think otherwise merely confirms you have no idea what most goons think about Hippoqueen's little pubbiefest.  If you read what I just said, I have some alts in useful places, friends (well, I doubt if they would think that if they knew) in other alliances through those alts, and of course having a main in GF means you get to see a lot of the main action close up.  And if you want to take a poll and see whether people want less forum porn from our enemies, explicitly stated as copied from Mittani posts on the GF forums, then feel free to ask around. 

And if you were to "start copying as well" then we'd all know because the standard of your otherwise simply dreadful posts would rise beyond measure.

[Endie]

Oh, nice edit:

Let me try:

I have heard that MC's pilots under orders to watch out for BOB in local and not to assume they are friendly.

This is the end for BoB.

LULZ

OK, there is your attempt.  It is, as we could have predicted, fairly awful.  You can't even copypost well.  Let me try now.  Here is an MC pilot speaking about Bob on their (they wish) private forums.

they absorb all they can, and give less help as possible, if is not theyr interest, (example they not have any real and direct interest on save mc assets 90 jump from theyr home..)

or save rise, etc,

i remember good when bob show theyr power to help lv, and when battle start they evanish.


no one like bob, include fix or what people conside theyr friend, becouse bob never estabilsh a friend status whit his allied, only subordinance.


than is natural now, when all is going fall, theyr pet is aiming to backstab theyr "owner" .

Bob die, they cant win that war, and mc honestly have only 2 option, remain neutral, or help community to kill bob.

just my 2 cents

Or how about this from a member of MC's leadership:

I keep bringing up the point about the northern evacuation because it remains as the best example of the ways in which BoB showed they didn't have the time or didn't care when it counted. In reference to the loss of Armageddion Dawn and that partciular fight in FAT. I havn't a clue if a BOB titan could have saved it or helped in any way. What I do know is that there were supposed to be three there and not 1 showed up. Some forget these facts...I have not.

Again, I'm not advocating BoB's death. I'm trying to clear some of the heads in this thread that seem to think we still owe anyone anything. We need to keep a clear head about this and do what needs to be done one way or another. Most everyone here knows my stance on Goons, so i'll leave that be. I know the leadership is working all the angles and I'm satisfied with that. Just realise that when the call comes down some people aren't going to be happy either way.

I'm here trying to get people heads out of their asses and let them see this, imho, in a more mercenary light.

You see?  There is a difference between copying some bullshit rumour from goodness knows where and seeing some stuff that will interest people because it reveals how Bob's only significant ally is turning against them.

[Slayerik]

So MC's options are:

1. Turtle up, defend themselves, and eventually get rolled and lose a buncha shit.

2.  Turtle up, defend themselves and Bob, and eventually get rolled and lose a buncha shit.

3. Go against Bob. Hope your diplomacy can avoid getting rolled and losing a buncha shit after Bob falls.

4. Move to Empire, start taking contracts again.


If I were a merc corp, like MC claims to be, I'd just move to empire. Start taking contracts again at reasonable prices. Get back to the roots. The difference now is they are about as Merc as TRI is. TRI takes contracts from Neutrals, as long as it isn't against blues, and shows up to beat some ass for a bit. At least thats how I understand it. Get your rep back. Don't worry about the advantages of 0.0 for a bit. Finish up the caps in the cooker and move the fuck out. Their force is nasty enough where a few months down the road they can work some diplo and go kick somebody's ass for some space.

[Kamen]

There is a difference between copying some bullshit rumour from goodness knows where and seeing some stuff that will interest people because it reveals how Bob's only significant ally is turning against them.

I think it would be more accurate to say that MC leadership long ago made the decision to turn against BoB, it just couldn't be allowed to filter down to the riff raff.  The first step after the decision was made was to go neutral and start an internal anti-BoB PR campaign (a pro-goon campaign wouldn't work).  All the recent postings and internal discussions in MC about "we're merc's and work for who pays us" and "BoB fucked us" is to make the decision that has already been made of taking a contract against BoB more palatable for their grunts.

It's working pretty well.  Taking a contract paid by the goons through one of their pets or another BoB flip corp will cause some bitching and moaning, and even the loss of a few pilots, but it's doable soon.

In all honesty what choice do they have?  Join BoB and die now, stay neutral and die later, run back to empire, or help in the destruction of BoB and take your chances?  Besides, it a great way to "prove" at how independent and merc-like they really are to all of their detractors who call them BoB fuck buddies.

[Simond]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if MC decided to try and buddy up to TRI in the near future - the mindsets seem to be a fairly close match, and having them onside in a post-BoB universe stellar cluster might possibly discourage (or at the very least delay a "Welp, we've killed BoB. MC next!" reaction.

Incidentally, BoB is supposed to be beginning to unravel internally - the corps are apparently beginning to snipe at each other in a "We'd be winning if it wasn't for corp X" manner. And nobody likes the ex-Shinra people - not even their own corpmates.

[Endie]

Both of you raise really good points about how MC get themselves out of their hole.

I wonder if they've not written off their current holdings already: I certainly thought that when they took their northern space, and Bob would have been smart to make damned sure they did evac everything from there when that went sour.  As it is, if they at least stay aloof while Bob goes down, then they may be calculating that, even if they lose Period Basis, they won't be subject to the sort of hatred that Bob will suffer, where they get hounded wherever they go in the game.  I have no idea if that is true (grunt-level opinion seems split on the issue) but I have a sneaky feeling that it might just work.

[Slayerik]

MC and TRI have been blue forever. Not sure why, we don't have many.

The only reason I wouldn't like it from a TRI perspective is ..... "ZOMG LOOK THEY ---ARE--- ZE NEW BOB"...then again, we like having targets...I just don't think we want THAT big of a crosshair on our back. And hell, I have no real diplo knowledge of TRI beyond "OP tonight bring a BS". Yessir!

I think it would be better as a whole for Eve, as the powerblocks would even out some, with RSF having a complete hold on the south. MM/RZR/CO and friends in the North\NE block with TRI/MC in the North/Northwest. Well, not sure it would be 'better' but it would be interesting.

[Drogo]

Reading Endie's posts made me wonder something. How come we never see comedy posts from RSF forums? I thought BoB had a reputation for having a great spy network back when they destroyed ASCN. How come we never see any posts from them about comedy from the Goons, IAC or TCF? There has to have been some good drama on some of those boards over the past year.

Anyway, what is happening in the actual war side of things? Any idea on when RSF is going to make a push to retake Catch and what are the Black Ops up to? Are they roaming in Fountain and Delve doing the same thing they did to Rise or has that not started yet?

[Endie]

Reading Endie's posts made me wonder something. How come we never see comedy posts from RSF forums? I thought BoB had a reputation for having a great spy network back when they destroyed ASCN. How come we never see any posts from them about comedy from the Goons, IAC or TCF? There has to have been some good drama on some of those boards over the past year.

Well, everyone has a bazillion spies in GF, for sure, so it's not for the lack of success in penetrating our highly secure infrastructure.  As I understand it, Blacklight got his spy network rolled up pretty massively well by the .de incident, and supposedly doesn't play right now.  But our boards and TS are probably more compromised than just about anyone else's, even if we might have an unusually high number of directorate-level spies in other alliances.

I honestly think that it's mainly because we're winning.  We have welp days on the forums, true, but we're pretty confident we're assured of some sort of victory in the medium term, and that means we don't have the sustained angst and blamecasting that happens on our enemies' forums and IRC.

The other reason is probably to do with what that LV guy wrote about us (that his alliance ignored): if a goon gets all worked up, then his post gets publicised on CAOD, the people making fun of him the most will be other goons.

Anyway, what is happening in the actual war side of things? Any idea on when RSF is going to make a push to retake Catch and what are the Black Ops up to? Are they roaming in Fountain and Delve doing the same thing they did to Rise or has that not started yet?

We've been told to have fun and do roaming gangs and stuff, but such is the love of taking away our enemies' toys that LC is right: every night sees a bunch of goons heading out on their own initiative and blowing up unfuelled POSes or breaking billion-a-month moon-mining chains.  I've been doing alt stuff mainly, which is less fun but hopefully worth it in the long run.  It's a shame though, as I genuinely like late-night pos shotting ops: they're social and chilled.

That said, The Church, -V- and some of the GBC pets who were thrown out of their space tried to take down a small TCF POS last night.  We got an hour's notice (it wasn't posted about by 5.30 when I left work, but had started by the time I picked up the dog and came home!) but, at the sniff of a fight, a decent-sized RSF fleet headed up there and absolutely slaughtered the attackers: multiple capitals down (one TCF carrier got ganked on the way there after warping off by himself in a system full of Bob  ).  Must have been a bit of a shock for them: three alliances combine fleets and turn up to attack a small POS with no defenders to be seen, and a couple of hours later they're dealing with massive lag and down a huge chunk of their force.

Just my luck: someone actually turns up with a fleet to fight with for the first time in months (I think I've added about 3.5milion gunnery SP since the last time), it happens in euro time, and I'm out walking a dog.

Re blackops, I dunno where they are right now, the sneaky little ninjas.  But I know that PL have moved into the rump Bob state and are ganking pets from there, from the NPC stations that Joe understandably loathes.  And I also know that quite a lot of GF are now basing out of Delve and ratting there in bob space.

Edit: Fixed the worst of the run-on sentences.

Second Edit: For those who were in the F13 corp before me, Light Darkness was apparently one of the organisers behind the cap loss fandango.

[Simond]

Yeah, I totally missed that op as well - checked the War Room earlier, saw nothing interesting happening in Euro time, logged into WoW.

Worst part? I was logged out about three jumps from that system. 

[Comstar]

How come we never see any posts from them about comedy from the Goons, IAC or TCF? There has to have been some good drama on some of those boards over the past year.

Well TCF is probably in French. Goons make too much fun of themselves and are winning. IAC has internal issues which aren't very interesting to anyone else and don't get anywhere near the level of MCFIX turning on their masters. IAC would have to attack AAA for the same level of drama, and IAC (unlike FIX or MC who are running out of options) isn't suicidal and is happy to stay best buddies with AAA (though I doubt that AAA needs IAC nearly as much as IAC needs AAA unlike BoB who *do* need MC/FIX as much as MC/FIX need BoB).

BoB might still surprise us all and regain the initiative, but even doing a full assault on IAC now still won't stop RSF attacking elsewhere, or even fiannly getting The battle of Kursk rerun I keep expecting but never really seeing.

[Simond]

Psst, anyone wanna buy some shares in BoB?
Going cheap....

[JoeTF]

Just a trillion isk.

[Slayerik]

Yeah I saw the RKK thread...

So I you predicting a true failure cascade soon here? Is BoB at the breaking point or is it just goonie propaganda making it feel that way?

Im still curious about what MC is going to do. I don't want to bug my friend too much or he'll start thinking I'm using him as a spy :)


EDIT: I'm guessing you can really tell the end by when directors start playing 'who can snag the T2 BPOs first' game. Until there is heavy looting inside the corps, I'm guessing they are ok. The theft is usually the sign that they are on the breaking point and someone 'might as well liberate that 15 bil isk BPO'.

[Simond]

This particular 'share offer' is the result of a disgrunted ex-RKK director joining Veto, and the Veto CEO realizing that he's sat on a potential goldmine.

The only thing that made them even remotely worth buying is that BPO lockdown requires a vote...and shareholders get a voting history. So now everybody knows where RKKs blueprints are kept, so there's no need to buy shares any more.


Until the BPs get transferred to a holding corp, anyway - then it's time to get spies into and/or shares of that new corp.

[Simond]

Update on the shares thing (mainly from SHC): RKK are taking things very seriously, decrying the sellers lack of e-honour, complaining about how unfair it is that all the hard work by corpmembers can be undermined by one person*, demanding to know how he can sleep at night IRL and hoping he dies of AIDS. (No, really).

Meanwhile, details about the seller have emerged: He was a founding director of RKK, handled their PR in the early days, and left the corp two years ago. Oh, and he offered to sell the shared back to BoB/RKK to 1.5 billion before he put them on the open market. BoB declined to take him up on this offer.


* Yes, BoB members are complaining about metagaming ruining their fun. D2 & ASCN are spinning in their virtual graves, while everyone else is pointing and laughing at the hypocrites getting some karmic retribution.