War

[Kamen]

That said, the idea that Bob has teh ubar diplomats is as daft as the idea that they are still the best at non-supercap-gate-camp fleet fights.  The M.Pire thing is the most obvious example of this; the dealings with MC another.  The fact that Lady Scarlet still has (or had until a few days ago) diplomatic authority in Bob is hilarious: she is as good at diplomacy as she is at fleet commanding.

I agree.  TBH I don't think it's even debatable.  BoB diplomacy has never been very good, but recently it's been jaw droppingly moronic.  Almost....  dare I say it..... suicidal.

Tinfoil time:  BoB diplomacy has been so bad lately that some people are actually debating if they are intentionally trying to get more alliances to join up against them without being blatantly obvious about it.  The argument being that BoB leadership has concluded they are going to lose and have adopted a "well fuck it, if we're going to go down let's go down in a blaze of BoB against the world glory so that we can stand proud in defeat" strategy.

I don't agree with that argument, but I have heard some people who I respect making it.  Personally I think it gives them to much credit.  I attribute it to something far less sexy - bad decisions (primarily generated due to their arrogance) incompetently implemented.

I agree with you that Goon diplomacy could be improved also, but BoB's is so bad that there is really no comparison.

[Endie]

ISS appear to be turning out to be the most incompetent Bob pets yet, which is pretty impressive in a competitive field that includes RISE.  I think that our blackops guys stole three or four towers from them last night, clearing out an entire (sov 4) system, and killed a freighter of theirs' yesterday.

The blackops reputation seems to be so awesome now that pets are just beginning the failure phase during the interdiction phase, before the main fleet itself gets anywhere near them.  which, I suppose, is the an example of exactly how to deploy a strategic, not tactical asset.

Oh and RISE just lost sov 4 a few minutes ago.  I hope they post another big announcement like last time!

[LC]

Joe, I like that you occasionally post here, and especially that you post here at times when Bob haven't just had something go right (unlike LC).

I'm not good at making up the news like goons.

[Reg]

So ISS are competent PVPers and RISE didn't lose a bunch of stations?

[Endie]

Joe, I like that you occasionally post here, and especially that you post here at times when Bob haven't just had something go right (unlike LC).

I'm not good at making up the news like goons.

Um, really awesome burn, man.  I thought i was trolling you, but you instead bedazzle me with your Wildeian wit.

But seriously, dude, that's better.  Your alliance just got told they were worthless by their key ally, got told to go fuck themselves by one of their few competent pets, have been unable to defend Rise, Soco, Corm, DR, ISS, Fatal, Fallen Souls, Sparta, YW and at least a couple other of the alliances they promised to protect, helped throw away yet another titan, failed to kill another one they had bubbled, are back on the strategic defensive in Catch, are gving way in Feyth and proved incapable of defending a Sov 4 constellation.  But you did post.

So ISS are competent PVPers and RISE didn't lose a bunch of stations?

Heh.  See, LC? That's how you do it.

Edit: corrected the second person singular possessive form.

[neep]

Rise, Soco, Corm, DR, ISS, Fatal, Fallen Souls, Sparta, YW and at least a couple other of the alliances they promised to protect

Do you just make this stuff up as you go along or is this one of those things goons keep repeating to themselves until they believe it is true?
Making a list is something, understanding the agreements made with tenants another and padding up your lists with anything that died the last months is just silly.

Anyway, the pew pew continues, when I hear you guys talk it seems the war is over already 

[Endie]

Rise, Soco, Corm, DR, ISS, Fatal, Fallen Souls, Sparta, YW and at least a couple other of the alliances they promised to protect

Do you just make this stuff up as you go along or is this one of those things goons keep repeating to themselves until they believe it is true?
Making a list is something, understanding the agreements made with tenants another and padding up your lists with anything that died the last months is just silly.

Anyway, the pew pew continues, when I hear you guys talk it seems the war is over already 

Whoah, wait a minute, you missed out a bit.  I said:

But seriously, dude, that's better.  Your alliance just got told they were worthless by their key ally, got told to go fuck themselves by one of their few competent pets, have been unable to defend Rise, Soco, Corm, DR, ISS, Fatal, Fallen Souls, Sparta, YW and at least a couple other of the alliances they promised to protect, helped throw away yet another titan, failed to kill another one they had bubbled, are back on the strategic defensive in Catch, are gving way in Feyth and proved incapable of defending a Sov 4 constellation. 

A list of cock-ups as long as that and all you could find to argue with there was the technicalities of who Bob were contractually obliged to protect (a list which gets longer with every director-level leak from alliances previously claiming not to pay rent) and who were just allies (and who would actually promise to help their allies, after all?!?)?

All I'm saying is - all matters of whether you should feel obliged to actually give pets the promised protection for their 6bn a month per constellation aside - that's a hell of a list of alliances to let down, one way or another.

While we're on the subject. Joe, you are still remembering our bet about IAC, Rise and DR?  Because IAC are indeed the last ones standing.

[JoeTF]

EVE has just become Goon-Online.

Hope you like it.

[Catalan]

EVE has just become Goon-Online.

Hope you like it.

10 seconds after BoB folds the main RSF Alliances will be pew-pewing each other. Goons only make sense as a Rebel Alliance against some evil Empire.

[Endie]

EVE has just become Goon-Online.

Hope you like it.

10 seconds after BoB folds the main RSF Alliances will be pew-pewing each other. Goons only make sense as a Rebel Alliance against some evil Empire.

Nah.  RA and Goon would require awesome drama to reset.  They took us in when Bob tried to force us out of the game and we remember that (even those of us who weren't there at the time). TCF are also our chilled French brosefs.  But as Slayerik and i were discussing, there is a ton of opportunity for much better fun fighting once Bob are out the way.

[Simond]

Fighter-blob nerf inc. One of BoB's final tactical advantages is going away.

[Sparky]

Oh wow that's a huge fucking carrier nerf.  I wish they'd gone down the "OK now fighters are X times as strong but you'll only get 1/X of them" route as they did when changing drones, that is if nerfing fighterbombing was the goal.  They'd better slash the cost of fighters if they expect me to delegate them to everyone.  :-(

edit: Everyone seems to hate that idea so hopefully it won't go through, CCP are normally pretty good at listening to riots in the streets.

[JoeTF]

Simond, being idiot as always.

Sparky,
still, the realization that multiple developers at CCP are complete, utter retards still pains you a lot. Maybe not a realization, but much as confirmation of stated fact.

I mean ccp managed to find a "idea" (which shouldn't leave brain of person responsible, not to mention being written down and published) so stupid that even bob and goon agree it's full of shit.

[Endie]

Joe, I say nice things about your posting (apart from reminding you how wrong you were about IAC/DR/Rise) and you and degenerate into LC Mk II for the last couple of posts.  What's with that?

Anyway, the great thing is that this is the first of a couple of steps to deal with the McBob fighter lagbombing which has been all that stood between Bob and losing yet more systems.  I've repeatedly said that I'd want us to do the same thing if we had those assets, but obviously I'm delighted that the opposition are, one way or another, going to lose the ability to so so.  The nature of thenerf may alter but at least it's clearly seen as in need of a fix.

PS RA/AAA just blew up three freighters, one Bob's and the other two Executive Outcomes, loaded with huge amounts of resources, blueprints, structures etc.  Shrike was around but couldn't save them.

[Slayerik]

You're stupid.

No, you're stupider.

No, you're the stupidist.

[Arthur_Parker]

Two more corps leaving FIX?

[MahrinSkel]

Internal drama.  One of the reasons I don't have much to say about what FIX is doing lately is that I don't have much to do with it.  There was an ideological shift at the tail end of the 49-U campaign that I couldn't buy into and my corp leadership did, so I don't play anymore.  Some corps, apparently the leadership felt differently.

I'm probably done with Eve.  I learned a lot from it, and there's no malice in the decision, I just don't find it much fun anymore and there's really no part of the gameplay left to explore that interests me.  I got a good two years out of it, and some really good insights into what makes a *good* PvP game, so I win Eve.

--Dave

[Reg]

I expect that once this war is over a lot of people from both sides will feel the same way and leave too.

[Endie]

Sparky,
still, the realization that multiple developers at CCP are complete, utter retards still pains you a lot. Maybe not a realization, but much as confirmation of stated fact.

That's not a nice way to speak about your friends.

[Raging Turtle]

Can we keep the pissy remarks elsewhere?  COAD is next to unreadable, I'd rather avoid that here.

[JoeTF]

Sparky,
still, the realization that multiple developers at CCP are complete, utter retards still pains you a lot. Maybe not a realization, but much as confirmation of stated fact.

That's not a nice way to speak about your friends.

How can I post a matter-of-fact, toned posts when I get replies like that (obvilously, the post you quoted wasn't very matter-of-fact'sh, but still). With you around, this topic can be a minefield worse than CAOD

Carrier "nerf" in question is so wrong in so many ways, that both sides fo conflict are flaming it with equal zeal. CCP managed to get goons and bob to agree on something, now that's an achievement. when a nerf that makes Rorqual a btter pvp ship than thanatos gets posted and backed up by ridiculious 'arguments' of battleships being melted in 0.2 sec (it takes 100+ sec for mothership!) you get kind of irritated.
I actually liked one of MC suggestion about giving carriers actual support roles/abilities (remote hardeners, damage boosters, super defenders, even some kind of forcefields and ship tractor beams(!) were mentioned).

Anyway, back on topic - you mentioned you have a list of some totally useless BoB FC: could you post it here, for comparison lulz sake?

[Endie]

Sparky,
still, the realization that multiple developers at CCP are complete, utter retards still pains you a lot. Maybe not a realization, but much as confirmation of stated fact.

That's not a nice way to speak about your friends.

How can I post a matter-of-fact, toned posts when I get replies like that (obvilously, the post you quoted wasn't very matter-of-fact'sh, but still). With you around, this topic can be a minefield worse than CAOD

Oh, sod off with the "matter of fact, toned" crap and "oh-so-hurt" attitude.  Look at the last few days posts and you have me saying I was glad you posted, followed by you posting utter crap for a few posts, like this:

Simond, being idiot as always.

and

developers at CCP are complete, utter retards

and

EVE has just become Goon-Online.  Hope you like it.

and

In my eyes guys who role play bunch of assholes are much better than guys that simply are assholes.

So don't pretend that you don't weigh in with the petty remarks.  I'd decided to leave the whole thing when Turtle asked, but your bullshit reply was just too laughable.  Yes, I troll LC.  It's fun and it's easy and it's not because he's in BoB, but rather because I saw him being offensive and trollish for about a year beforehand.  If you look at my posts for ages you'll find some of them have what I am doing literally spelt out in them in capital letters (after 9-9, once in the DigitalCommunist play, a couple of times since on lag, etc etc).  But I try to post a shitload of content and news for people in this thread, since they say they want that: do you?

So next time you say "so-and-so is a retard" and I reply sarcastically, consider for a second that you may be on dubious ground to pass judgement.

Anyway, back on topic - you mentioned you have a list of some totally useless BoB FC: could you post it here, for comparison lulz sake?

Um, as you say, back on topic, something tells me I possibly shouldn't post the names of those Bob FCs most likely to give us the gift of fleet victories  .    Anyway, if you've fought in any of our big wins in the last few months you must surely know who they are?  I'm serious there.  I genuinely thought some of them wouldn't be allowed to FC any more.

[Comstar]

Small news item: The last ISS POS in the KDF system (old ISS system IAC captured at the prelude to the Great War) was destroyed today.

BoB's assault on IAC has stagnated once MC pulled out and now stalled for the time being. My completely uneducated guess is BoB is reforming and using Deep Catch as a stratagic buffer to gather strength for another assault somewhere else.

[neep]

True, there will be some major gankage going on in the drone regions because there is a vicious rumour going around that there are a couple of alliances left there who haven't fully committed to eradicating bob yet. The insolence...

Anyway, in other news, every alliance that has been shot up recently seems to be running around in fountain. Get your missioning alts in cheap ships now!

In other, other news, Mpire, who recently escaped the clutches of the evil bob empire, (yay) lost the corporation who spearheaded their bold move to a merge with goons, then to a newly formed alliance by said corporation -which is to be allied to the goons-, then to whatever form they'll take tomorrow (but it will be with the goons) while the remainder of Mpire, you'll never guess, moved to fountain to join the fun.

Meanwhile, I'm quite happy that mpire is leaving the rats in Delve alone as I'm rather enjoying my rotation away from the frontlines.

Oh, and please CCP, turn all capitals into logistic ships. Let the battleships be the ships of battle again. I don't mind, as long as you scale back lag to the levels they were in 2005 just as you scale back your features.

[Arthur_Parker]

True, there will be some major gankage going on in the drone regions because there is a vicious rumour going around that there are a couple of alliances left there who haven't fully committed to eradicating bob yet. The insolence...

You could always get a BoB diplomat to contact any unaligned alliances left, that should help sway them.  :-D

[Fordel]

Also, isn't STK's new alliance name really, really, really stupid? Biack 0ut or something?

[JoeTF]

Um, as you say, back on topic, something tells me I possibly shouldn't post the names of those Bob FCs most likely to give us the gift of fleet victories  .    Anyway, if you've fought in any of our big wins in the last few months you must surely know who they are?  I'm serious there.  I genuinely thought some of them wouldn't be allowed to FC any more.

If you think it will have some serious impact on our FC rooster, you're wrong;-)
C'mon, I'm really curious.

[Endie]

Courtesy of our new spymaster Ploptops, some assorted forum porn: Bob have revealed their secret plan that they've been taunting us about in local for a couple of weeks:

The BoB leadership has given out orders to most of their pets to move the hell out of our way, and to do it as quietly as possible. No major forum posts if they can help it; distribute the intel through corp CEOs to members, but whatever you do: get out fast.

There are some amusing consequences from this kind of policy, namely that it doesn't work out. Here's some RISE whining:

The alliance policy is to pass the info to individual corp CEO's/council members and then have them distribute the information to their corp as they see fit.

Personally, I think it is a horribly inefficient way to do things and it leads to a lot of problems we have been having lately, namely, a lot of people having no clue what's going on. It's fine when things are pretty slow and don't change much, but when things change weekly/daily it takes too long for the information to filter down. All council members are not constantly checking the council forums. So if the appropriate members of a particular corp haven't check the forum recently, due to RL or whatever, members of that corp are completely in the dark while people in other corps are randomly squawking about big new changes in various channels and just confusing the uninformed ones.

It also allows the Alliance leadership to completely avoid responsibility because if anyone complains about why info isn't being spread they just pass the buck and say "oh well, we posted about it in that super-secret forum that only a few of your corp members can access and we expect to constantly check every 5 minutes, so it's their fault if you have no idea what's going on, tough shit."

Back to your original question: what little I've been able to decipher is that everyone is doing things on a corp-by-corp basis while the council does what it does best, endlessly debating a dozen different plans until finally a few people scream loud enough about one that everyone else just gives up and goes along with it. In the meantime,aAnyone who pretends they know exactly what the current plan is is completely full of it. 

EXE just came right out with the truth, and it lost them a bunch of freighters for their trouble:

Originally Posted by Mo'chusle, EXE bossguy
Analysing the progression of the war over the past few months, everybody can see that whenever our side, the GBC, stood together, we made good progress. But whenever we started getting spread out again, we started losing battles, and, consequently, space. Our side is holding vast amounts of space, even more than RSF, even though they outnumber us by a great bit.

The last few weeks, we launched the Catch campaign, which was very successful. But constantly spreading our efforts between fighting offensively in catch and defensively in Feythabolis has been difficult.

Therefore, a strategy change was decided. The GBC will relocate Paragon Soul, Esoteria and Feythabolis residents. Every ally that was helping in the war effort will get relocated to a new station within BoB space. Everybody will be allowed to mine and rat all over BoB space, aside from Delve. All pirate agents will be opened to anyone in the GBC, including the agents in Delve. We will all be much closer to each other, and we will oontinue our push for Catch. Executive Outcomes will be based out of the 9CG station in Querious. We will be both closer to empire (1 carrier jump) as well as closer to our allies and the front line.

This of course means that you want your equipment/ships out of QS-530, or more importantly, in 9CG. BoB will be doing jump bridges for our freighters all weekend. For us to be able to get all your stuff, you will have to work with us. If you read the next post carefully and follow the instructions, all your stuff will be safely delivered to you in 9CG.
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY IMPORTANT! THE WHOLE RELOCATION CAN ONLY WORK IF EVERYBODY SPENDS THE TIME TO READ AND UNDERSTAND THE PROCEDURE!

Note: We will not drop the station in QS-530! All the towers will remain armed and ready.

ISS have opted for a forum blackout, so we have a GIA agent report for you instead.

Originally Posted by GIA agent
ISS is packing up and leaving. BoB have decided that it is no longer viable to spread out allies when congregating them into one area makes for easier defense. ISS (and likely all pets) are withdrawing to FOUNTAIN. However, before the withdraw, ISS (perhaps other pets) is going to Catch to "finish off" IAC. If you've been looking at the alliance mails I reported, it seems that Count's vendetta against IAC is more important to him than ISS at the moment, as they're threatening alliancekicks for people in Esoteria during Catch ops.

This statement is somewhat corroborated by the things I've seen in the capital fleet channel lately. Normally, it's either dead silent, or it's morons trying to get to Catch, but now they're asking for cynos to Empire, or are entrusting their ships to others to move for them (but they never mention the destination.) Further, I've heard from a few people that, much like RISE, the evacation isn't really organized, it's people bugging out as they can. They've also been trying to get a Titan jumpportal op going, but Esoteria has been too hot lately for BoB to risk it.

Aftermath has obviously begun pulling out, since Pi shot their station.

Edit: WTF Querious?  Mahrin, is this one of the reasons behind why Fix's graph of membership maps almost exactly onto Rise's recently (amazingly close)?

[Comstar]

Well it could be BoB is trying to replicate what happened when LV collapsed and a power vacuum developed. RSF overextended and BoB was able to strike back.

I don't think it will work, but unless RSF is prepared for rapid movement they might be left striking at thin air while BoB recommences the conquest of Catch.

Poor BoB pets.

[MahrinSkel]

No, I don't think they bothered to share this one ahead of time.  This is going to be bad, there's basically only 4 premium constellations in Querious, one of them is effectively un-usable because of distance to the nearest refinery, one is MC property, and one is *supposed* to be exclusive for FIX.

On the one hand, I don't think there's any way you can pack the entire southern contingent into Querious and not have them immediately start shooting at each other over belts and spawns.  On the other, I really doubt the *entire* southern population is going to show up.  I expect at least some of them are going to be looking to cut deals with RSF, some will look for other places to go (if not as alliances, then as individual corps).

--Dave (on the gripping hand, I own an interest on the refinery in the middle of that fourth constellation, so I might actually see some payoff on that now)

[Fordel]

Well it could be BoB is trying to replicate what happened when LV collapsed and a power vacuum developed. RSF overextended and BoB was able to strike back.

I don't think it will work, but unless RSF is prepared for rapid movement they might be left striking at thin air while BoB recommences the conquest of Catch.

Poor BoB pets.

I think the difference between then and now, is the jump portal networks RSF have up. Before BoB had their titans to hustle people across the distance, while the Goons had nothing similar.

They could still over extend of course, but it would be much more difficult.

[Endie]

No, I don't think they bothered to share this one ahead of time.  This is going to be bad, there's basically only 4 premium constellations in Querious, one of them is effectively un-usable because of distance to the nearest refinery, one is MC property, and one is *supposed* to be exclusive for FIX.

On the one hand, I don't think there's any way you can pack the entire southern contingent into Querious and not have them immediately start shooting at each other over belts and spawns.  On the other, I really doubt the *entire* southern population is going to show up.  I expect at least some of them are going to be looking to cut deals with RSF, some will look for other places to go (if not as alliances, then as individual corps).

--Dave (on the gripping hand, I own an interest on the refinery in the middle of that fourth constellation, so I might actually see some payoff on that now)

To be fair, they're also getting located into Fountain as well.  Just how many of them will enjoy that with Krautbreak and others in the region now, Tri nearby and so on is hilarious to contemplate.  It'll be like PL/Blackops in RIT but on a much bigger scale.  I imagine that they'll be followed there by Blackops and PL too.  So many vulnerable and demoralised targets in such a small space means they'll be bussing the gankers in from the hills.

[Arthur_Parker]

No, I don't think they bothered to share this one ahead of time.  This is going to be bad, there's basically only 4 premium constellations in Querious, one of them is effectively un-usable because of distance to the nearest refinery, one is MC property, and one is *supposed* to be exclusive for FIX.

On the one hand, I don't think there's any way you can pack the entire southern contingent into Querious and not have them immediately start shooting at each other over belts and spawns.  On the other, I really doubt the *entire* southern population is going to show up.  I expect at least some of them are going to be looking to cut deals with RSF, some will look for other places to go (if not as alliances, then as individual corps).

--Dave (on the gripping hand, I own an interest on the refinery in the middle of that fourth constellation, so I might actually see some payoff on that now)

I hope after the war is over, (or maybe if it reaches a point where FIX is no longer 100% involved) you will do a write up on the recent events as seen from your side.

[Arthur_Parker]

BoB video on war status.

[Endie]

That's actually bloody good: up there with the Stahlregen stuff in terms of production values but done very differently.

I'm still suspicious, though.  The move is so clearly, prima facie dumb that it surely has to be a feint?