War

[jape]

You can't complain about his fit, that's some nice gear. Who was the lucky goon to pick it all up?

According to hippoking on SHC:

Also a one month old newbie in a stabber destroyed the wreck with billions of officer mods on.

:goons:

 

[sanctuary]

LOL 

[Phildo]

100 pages!

[Sir T]

Zeus is some dude from Evol, not Molle's alt.

Sure. "Some dude from Evol" convoed Goon leadership and smack talked them in the name of BOB after the Titan kill.

As for the rest, I could say a lot more but all I'll say is that your standards of "acting stupid" are pretty fluid and  a touch hypocritical depending on who it is that loses his titan. 

[JoeTF]

Not to piss into your nice conspiracy theory, but unless Molle uses CIA-grade voice synthesizers and sends actors disguised as Zeus to bob bbq, then Molle!=Zeus.

[Sparky]

Not to piss into your nice conspiracy theory, but unless Molle uses CIA-grade voice synthesizers and sends actors disguised as Zeus to bob bbq, then Molle!=Zeus.

Dude you're in trouble now... opsec ffs

[Phildo]

So if he's not Molle (and I'm willing to believe this) the question becomes why Molle is letting him shit up that thread so much instead of gagging him like he seems to do with most of their other posters.  Zeus creates an awful public image for your alliance, with the only other person posting there being the titan pilot who isn't much better.

[Sparky]

100 pages!

It's been a wild ride.  Lock at the first sign of Vader pics though.

[Ratadm]

Doesn't Molle generally have a superior command of the English language when compared to Zeus as well.   That was the thing that stuck out at me at least.

[Sir T]

Joe is probably just upset because BOB got yet another Titan tackled today for at least 10 minutes (doing something stupid no doubt) and only the fact that NC didn't have enough guys in the area to kill it saved it's ass. *shrug*

[eldaec]

So if he's not Molle (and I'm willing to believe this) the question becomes why Molle is letting him shit up that thread so much instead of gagging him like he seems to do with most of their other posters.  Zeus creates an awful public image for your alliance, with the only other person posting there being the titan pilot who isn't much better.

Zeus has gone full retard on eve-o and Molle is too self important to maintain that act.

Molle hasn't gagged Zeus because it massages his ego to have other players accuse a another guy of being his alt.

[setar]

Joe is probably just upset because BOB got yet another Titan tackled today for at least 10 minutes (doing something stupid no doubt) and only the fact that NC didn't have enough guys in the area to kill it saved it's ass. *shrug*

Any details? The only titan tackled I am aware of was Shrike -- the reason no NC fleet was left was because it got either double/triple-doomsdayed or logged. Although I do expect more GBC titans to be killed shortly, and ours/-A- have run out of warranty, too.

[Sir T]

It definatly wasn't Shrike, he had logged off in H-ADOC hours before. Sadly what details I have are thin, as I was on my way to help kill it when we heard that NC had been quadruple doomsdayed and BOB had mass logged off in terror. So we contented ourselves with chasing Atlas around a bit and killing one of their carriers.

[Endie]

So we contented ourselves with chasing Atlas around a bit and killing one of their carriers.

Atlas are funny little fellows who run around trying so very hard to be relevant.  For a long time I wondered where Bobby Atlas kept the incriminating photos, as no matter how many regions they got ignominiously thrown out of (four in the last six months?) they would hold onto their numbers.  However, a few weeks ago (after yet another two region bootings in a few weeks) they started to seriously haemhorage members.  They then accepted all the shitty members from Tri who couldn't even get into Dice of all virtually-open-recruiting corps and who didn't laugh in their face at the offer, but the bleeding has just resumed from a higher level: http://www.eve-maps.com/outpostalert/alliancechart.asp?FilterType=Alliance&FilterBy=ATLAS

Edit:

By the way, has anyone noticed how several of AAA's corps are now bleeding members?  Evil Thug's corp has gained about thirty members and they have recruited a gold-farming corp (under notorious ebayer Daira Lir) to staunch the flow, but corps like ex-RA members Reunion, self-proclaimed "combat-oriented" Aeria Gloris Inc, The Collective and VVS have all lost enough for the alliance to be down by about 5% over the period of the war.

The mass of veterans returning to defend against AAA and the rest of the GBC, together with the newbie drive, has had a rather different effect on us: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/GoonSwarm

[Yoru]

It's interesting to see that while membership is up, outposts and sovereignty held are down. Are those actual losses or are "excess" assets being turned over to fellow coalition members?

[Endie]

It's interesting to see that while membership is up, outposts and sovereignty held are down. Are those actual losses or are "excess" assets being turned over to fellow coalition members?

Since the beginning of the war we've gained two (0OYZ- and R2-) and lost two (C9N and OooOoOOO6) stations.  Everything else is in Scalding Pass, Kalavela and Geminate and was handed over to friends.  We should have even less stations by now, but I think we still fuel POSes in SP to dent un-jammed targets to BoB.

Our stated wish from long before the war (I was involved in the early discussions on which regions we thought it worth holding) has been to cut massively what we held, and get goons into a smaller space around Feyth, Esoteria and Stain.  Ironically, as mentioned, we currently hold much more space than we would have had we not been attacked by the GBC and their pets like Exe and AAA.

As regarding systems held, some folks took down moon-mining and drone-ratting POSes in our old space when it was handed over.  Others, like myself, took down money-making POSes because we want to spend our time in-game shooting stuff and not fuelling towers (yes, the GBC has indeed freed me from the bonds of POS warfare  ): I was holding sov in three of the four systems where I had towers back then, so I alone account for about 10% of our "lost" systems.

[Sir T]

Edit:

By the way, has anyone noticed how several of AAA's corps are now bleeding members?  Evil Thug's corp has gained about thirty members and they have recruited a gold-farming corp (under notorious ebayer Daira Lir) to staunch the flow, but corps like ex-RA members Reunion, self-proclaimed "combat-oriented" Aeria Gloris Inc, The Collective and VVS have all lost enough for the alliance to be down by about 5% over the period of the war.

The mass of veterans returning to defend against AAA and the rest of the GBC, together with the newbie drive, has had a rather different effect on us: http://evemaps.dotlan.net/alliance/GoonSwarm

It's possible that BOB are following their usual pattern of hovering up everyone they can from their pets, leaving AAA weak and utterly depende3nt on BOB and unable to respond when they demand more and stab them in the back.

Btw an interesting titbit from the Kugutsumen site on the Titan kill

it gets better, its actually EXE's titan... supposedly, Hurley petitioned to CCP to be moved from BNC to FOFF, due to the whole unable to dock titans and shit, so he was going to be moved from BNC to FOFF sometime soon. might still classify as a bob titan kill, but EXE is taking it like its theirs, and the coolest part is that some fags in DICE are blaming EXE for the loss. kinda awkward but whatever works.

[05:38:39] King Balthazar > bob titan dead, that belonged to the founder of foff period
[05:39:14] King Balthazar > who has an alt, ipod, in FOFF

Which explains why BOB is so willing to blame everything on Hurley and throw him under a bus.

And the drama keeps on flowing 

[setar]

Lots of tinfoil here. ATLAS changes are rather easy to explain: they bled members when they lost a war and got kicked out of their region -- happens to most alliances. They then absorbed part of TRI.. not individual members, but whole corps (Havoc, RUST and Co) which is the spike you see. Doom initially joined, then left again to form TRI 3.0, and that's the latest decrease in members.

Not saying it's a match made in heaven, and no idea how long they will last, but it's not quite as dramatic. Similar story for -A-: unlike GS most corps get more restrictive with recruitment, so you'll see a decline over time. Given how unhappy many members were with setting someone to blue I don't think BOB grabbed too many pilots from the corps that have been bleeding members, but I do not have any evidence to back this up.

In other news: anyone not enjoying the constant fighting all over several regions?

[Endie]

Lots of tinfoil here. ATLAS changes are rather easy to explain: they bled members when they lost a war and got kicked out of their region -- happens to most alliances. They then absorbed part of TRI.. not individual members, but whole corps (Havoc, RUST and Co) which is the spike you see. Doom initially joined, then left again to form TRI 3.0, and that's the latest decrease in members.

That's just a positive spin (mentioning only one of the three region moves) on exactly what I said:

However, a few weeks ago (after yet another two region bootings in a few weeks) they started to seriously haemhorage members.  They then accepted all the shitty members from Tri who couldn't even get into Dice of all virtually-open-recruiting corps and who didn't laugh in their face at the offer, but the bleeding has just resumed from a higher level: : http://www.eve-maps.com/outpostalert/alliancechart.asp?FilterType=Alliance&FilterBy=ATLAS

In other news: anyone not enjoying the constant fighting all over several regions?

Meh, we've had a quiet couple of weeks, and I've not felt I've been missing too much by my house move and only occasional online time: killing Bob titans is, to be frank, almost routine these days and the thread almost fell off the front page of the forums on the second day.  Once the Big Push begins I'll come running back, but lots of people are still getting in position.

This thread from the Bob forums is, however, full of promise: http://www.kugutsumen.com/mirrors/bob2/threads/thread-105483-.html  Not often in the history of Eve has so much concentrated failure joined together to ill-advisedly attack someone better-equipped to slaughter them, and they know it very well.  Those few dread pilots that do dare to show up in their shiny toys will all be platinum-insuring them, because it will be murder the first time they warp to a PL tower coming out of reinforced without Bob and more competent pets like AAA to help them.

[xorx]

Bob in self admitted failure cascade?

The effect we are having on the rest of EVE is currently minimal imo.

Dianabolic says:

I want to emphasise this. No other alliance in this game has been around as long as we have. No other alliance has shaken EvE as much as we have. No alliance has controlled as much of EvE, as we have.

That, however, doesn't mean shit. We are only as good as our last campaign... so yes, right now we're pretty mediocre. But if there's any alliance in this game that can bounce from mediocrity to awesome fucking great fantastic it's this one. Give it time and the commitment of our members and that WILL happen, of that there is no doubt.

Is everyone convinced? No, then you aren't listening ... right Molle?

Keep posting ladies, but pls, oneliners and arguing isnt really what we wanna read.

**Oneliners and idjit trollbaits removed.

Sacul, recently of the WR3CK weighs in with:

If you want to be able to dominate your enemy again start by crushing PL because we all know that NC will splinter after a few defeats and goons will be goons.

And remember, this is serious business

...and I feel out of place for saying it, as it isn't my corp... but someone else was talking about THE CORP LEVEL. Corps who don't weed-out and kick players who do STUPID SHIT. I know that if that H-ADOC titan loss happened under the command of a DICE titan pilot, that guy would be kicked the fuck OUT, and even quite possibly, the FC too.

And DBP, ends it all with a quote reminding us just what a charming fellow he was:

Fuck me, I would have loved someone to complain about being shouted at from me. You would have been strip mining jita for a week (no joke, this was the general punishment for being a cock and surprisingly peeps never really repeated mistakes).

[setar]

That's just a positive spin (mentioning only one of the three region moves) on exactly what I said:

Precisely. It's a different view on the negative spin you provided.

As for not missing something.. haven't had as much fun since the MC campaign in the North. MC killboard is showing about 400 kills/losses per day and all kinds of battles. POS ops, skirmishes, multiple roaming gangs coordinating to meet for 200+ pilot battles. One huge, free for all. That's only going to last for a very limited amount of time until everyone else from the North arrives and turns it into either a steamroller, or one defensive POS op after the other. I kinda prefer the current environment.

[NiX]

Quotes a lot of stuff...

I'm glad to be a goon. They do shit jokingly, but booting people for losing something? Mining Veldspar? Way to turn a game into your own personal BDSM funhouse and suck the fun out of people like a 2 dollar whore.

[Sir T]

Christ those forum dumps are two dollops of total and utter fail. I don't even know where to start.

And the failure cascade one is the edited one that was cleaned up by molle. Jesus christ

[JoeTF]

Now I know how forum dumps are made;-)

[MahrinSkel]

Looks like they've fallen into the Testosterone Trap, they've gotten focused on the big battles in the big ships that generate the big wins, and forgotten that you don't break an alliance by killing their POS or their capitals, you do it by breaking their morale, by making it not fun to be the enemy.  You can kill a small alliance that holds only a few stations with a few key battles, but a big alliance with a lot of strategic depth, you have to grind them down.  That takes logistics, it takes constant raiding and harassment, and it takes *lots* of small operations that depend on lots of players who never get their name on a killmail or top the killboard.

But they've long been recruiting the kind of guys who think killboard stats are the end-all, be-all of ePeen.  Small-ship harassment ops that just kill a few ratters or miners, and make the enemy feel the area is too hot for cargo transport, don't build up your KB stats to compete with the guys who flew dreads into a hot-drop.  Flying a cargo transport, even a freighter, 15 jumps through hostile turf to deliver Dread fuel to a beach-head POS, doesn't generate a killmail.  Putting 10-15 CovOps into an operational area so that not even a newbship moves that you don't know about, doesn't get the CovOps pilots any glory.

A big part of their problem may be that they have too *many* supercaps, too many guys with lots of experience who are welded into a ship that can't dock, and that is too valuable to use spontaneously.  And instead of putting their alt in a CovOps or using them for logistics, they're putting them into a combat ship so they can be in on the action while their "main" sits at the log-in screen waiting for the call to activate the super-caps.  CCP's changes to GTC's that effectively increased the cost of an alt account by 50% may be a factor as well.

Plus, these are guys who value winning above all else, most of them left their original alliances to join BoB because BoB always wins, and their previous alliance didn't.  They don't have the appetite for failure, for sucking up a few weeks of getting beat like a drum in cheap ships while the enemy runs down their reserves.

--Dave

[Endie]

Dave has it spot on, of course. I'm in this thread last year saying that bob's policy of dealing with goonfleet's numerical and timzone advantages by hoovering up the dregs of every failed alliance from rise to tri was a short term solution that would dilute the main advantage that let them compete with us: a genuine belief that thy were better than the rest. Now two years of uninterrupted failures, driven home by hostile propaganda, have made such cognitive dissonance unsupportable.

As a Nigerian poet said: 'To poison a nation, poison its stories. A demoralised nation tells demoralised stories about itself.'

[Phildo]

And I'd just like to point out that the titan pilot from the other night, Hurley, has now been relegated to pet alliance Executive Outcomes.

[Goumindong]

Looks like they've fallen into the Testosterone Trap, they've gotten focused on the big battles in the big ships that generate the big wins, and forgotten that you don't break an alliance by killing their POS or their capitals, you do it by breaking their morale, by making it not fun to be the enemy.  

They also believed their own hype. They said "were better than everyone else" and forgot why they were better than everyone else.

[Fordel]

So I obviously haven't been keeping up with all the alliances and corps and what not.


Who are PL and why are they the new big dog?

[Goumindong]

So I obviously haven't been keeping up with all the alliances and corps and what not.


Who are PL and why are they the new big dog?

Pandemic Legion = PL. They had been a relatively small alliance during much of the southern campaign doing logistics interception and morale destruction. They were pretty much solely responsible for the fall of RISE in the RIT triangle.

When Triumvirate fell for the first time PL absorbed some of their better combat corps and set about realizing one of their long term goals of owning space by taking up residency in Fountain when MC backed out of the North. They've been there ever sense kicking ass and taking names.

They are quite good at killing titans:
They baited BoBs latest titan loss, they killed a Triumvirate titan in a cyno jammed system without capitals, and killed Shrike in low-sec. And those are just the ones i remember.

[Phildo]

PL is also known both for their excellence at small-gang (nano) warfare and a fearsome cap fleet that often shows up unexpectedly to decimate their enemies.  And they're some of the better posterss on CAOD these days.

[Sparky]

PL are good at what they do and seem to live a charmed life, but remember they're (in big alliance politics terms) tiny.  No 800 man alliance will ever be "top dog".  Good at turning the tide but I don't think they'll ever make the waves.  That's a horrible metaphor but I'm sure you get my point.

[Predator Irl]

PL are good at what they do and seem to live a charmed life, but remember they're (in big alliance politics terms) tiny.  No 800 man alliance will ever be "top dog".  Good at turning the tide but I don't think they'll ever make the waves.  That's a horrible metaphor but I'm sure you get my point.

I don't agree with you there at all, it is the quality of those 800 pilots, their FC's and their leadership that is important. If I had to choose between PL and another alliance of 2000+ members, I would pick PL every time. Lets not forget that PL have a low tolerance for inactive members and also excellent training for noobs, which raises the bar in any engagement. They may or may not grow to superpower size, but 800 members isn't small and quality prevails over quantity.

[JoeTF]

PL is what every goon dreams to become  ;-p

They're good at small scale harassment and griefing tactics (nano hacs and capital hot drops, claoaked gatecamps, etc). They don't do the main scale warfare and are kind of parasites that show up in conflicts other parties generated. It has nothing to do with their size, but rather with their chosen gameplay style. They will never become a powerblock like BoB or GS or NC, because they don't have what it takes to run laggy as fuck fleetbattles or weeks long pos warfare operations.

[WayAbvPar]

I have been deathly afraid of Sniggerdly pilots since my very first days in EVE. Those PL boys know how to fly.