War

[nurtsi]

Aren't the doomsdays supposed to be a joke? I hear lot of people talk about how you can tank it in a heavy interdictor. If a cruiser-sized ship can tank it, a battleship shouldn't have too much trouble tanking one. Those same people complain that doomsdays should be made more powerful, rather than weaker. Then again if there's eight of them, they might actually hurt.

[Nerf]

Compare the resists on a broadsword vs. a tempest, tell me which one you think could tank a DD better.

That's all I have to say for the titan argument though, I've never been up against one, but the *idea* of a doomsday weapon seems pretty lame to me, and making them super-super logistics ships that allow the docking of carriers etc sounds pretty neat, basically a mobile station.

[Endie]

In zero lag, a doomsday would be an interesting tactical weapon, which would make people choose between leaving unsupported, super-tanked battleships (with the effectiveness loss that involves) and heavy dictors in place, or clearing out when the animation starts.  As it is, in the lag caused by a 500-man fleet with (at times) 40 carriers allocating fighters, they are just instant-win buttons.

It's always difficult to tell if Joe is dumb or just trolling, and I choose to believe the latter, but not caring about K:D ratio is immaterial when your enemy has the ability to utterly wipe out every ship in your fleet every 7 and a half minutes, and it takes longer than that to get control of your ship after entering the system.

That said, if I was in their position, and we'd found a way to win without risk or skill, I'd advocate using it too.  I'm just upset because we have to take systems the hard way 

As it is, it was a very well-timed attack by Bob, and worked brilliantly.  It's not a sustainable model in the long term, but it'll have helped boost their participation levels for thenext few weeks, I'd bet.  It will also bring forward the upcoming supercapital nerf that was discussed in the devblog, and that is a good thing both for us and for the game.

Welp day 

[Simond]

I'd imagine Bane Glorious is hammering away on his keyboard as we speak. 
Anyone worked out how many titans are needed to alpha a dread fleet yet, out of interest? That's got to be the next threshold for BoB to aim for.

[lac]

About 80 if I remember correctly. BoB is 10% there

[Endie]

About 80 if I remember correctly. BoB is 10% there

Depends on whether they're in siege mode, of course.  Out of siege mode the 500,000+ alpha damage of 8 doomsdays is enough to put a substantial dent in them, and to get your carriers even further down the road to fuckedsville, depending on the damage types.

[5150]

So it would appear that the rumours of a BOB/MC NAP were semi true

http://myeve.eve-online.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=738618

BOB just wanted to fuck over MC and MC were stupid enough to give BOB the opportunity to achieve some measure of it

What I cant work out is if Mollys apology is serious or not (is the e-honour strong in this one?) mainly because Mollys posts are usually full of shit

Annoyingly BOB getting MC involved in a bunch of in fighting is probably what they [BOB] want right now and I just wish everyone could, just for once, put that shit aside for now, wipe the fuckers off the map and _then_ have the massive clusterfuck!

[Endie]

If it's true, then I grudgingly respect Molle for not just letting MC take what they want then try to make kissy faces again.

[lac]

They got off cheap. For now at least.

[JoeTF]

Around 20DD, we're already halfway there

[Simond]

If it's true, then I grudgingly respect Molle for not just letting MC take what they want then try to make kissy faces again.

If it's true, it's hilariously awesome. Expect MC's little crusade against 49- to stumble to a halt even sooner now. MC were losing that little war anyway, but once BoB finishes cleaning up QY6-, there's not a lot stopping them deciding to (re)take PB.

[bhodi]

If it's true, then I grudgingly respect Molle for not just letting MC take what they want then try to make kissy faces again.

Can confirm this is all 100% real.

[Akkori]

Then what do you propose the gargantuan uber-ships be equipped with?  If they have to lock on to each and every target they engage, they'll be a laughingstock.  If you just load them full of drones they're just a bigger mothership with more lag.  And so far as I'm aware EvE doesn't have a very good collision detection system, so you can't just have them shoot a big SDF-1 beam that kills whatever it hits.

It could be supremely cool if the Devs would allow players to "occupy" a station in a titan. Only 8 high slots and 3 rig's for a ship that large? That's a damn vader-super-capital star destroyer. Imagine if each titan had, oh, say 40 gunnery stations, a half dozen tractor stations, drone control stations, etc... and a player could load into a special interface by docking with the titan. They'd see what Luke and Han saw from the turret guns. That would be awesome, AND would reduce lag because a good chunk of the fighting force would be sitting in a mostly static gunnery station... a turret that could be targeted, of course.

[K9]

Do tractor beams work on enemy ships? I only just got Science to IV a few hours ago and haven't tried them out yet.

[Yoru]

Do tractor beams work on enemy ships? I only just got Science to IV a few hours ago and haven't tried them out yet.

Nope. Cans only.

[caladein]

Wrecks as well.

[Morat20]

Wrecks as well.

Only wrecks you made -- or members of your corp.

[ajax34i]

They'd see what Luke and Han saw from the turret guns.

Yeah, that would be cool, but you're imagining the wrong game.  EVE isn't a dogfighting sim.  If they allowed us to get into the titan and control turrets, our camera would simply be bound to the titan, which moves however the pilot wants, and then each of us would get to lock targets and activate F1-F8 then watch bars go down. 

Not that that wouldn't be cool.  Just not as cool as what Luke and Han saw.

[Comstar]

Why not make it a single shot death star weapon. Ie- point, Boom. One *ship* destroyed. No matter what (ok, mabye not Motherships or other Titans).

[Fordel]

It's another one of those things that would be neat, if the game didn't have any lag.


Really, fleet fights in general would be completely different if lag wasn't a factor.


Sadly, it is 

[ajax34i]

Why not make it a single shot death star weapon. Ie- point, Boom. One *ship* destroyed. No matter what (ok, mabye not Motherships or other Titans).

They could make a one-shot titan destroyer, too.  Basically, a huge-ass cruise missile, bigger than a battleship; costs roughly half of what a titan costs to make, and you must go through the same "defend your shipyard" gameplay to build it, the pilot must train a bunch of skills, it's warp-capable, jump capable, unarmed, armored/shielded enough to survive a DD, and you fly it into the titan and sucide yourself (the resulting explosion auto-pods you too) in order to take the titan out. 

[bhodi]

All these ideas are great but they are ignoring the chief problem of why titans are so broken.

The problem is not the titans themselves, it's the lag. In a lagless environment, titans are not as horribly broken. They have an i-win button, yes, but only for ships on grid. They are also vulnerable for 15m after, and the doomsday is relatively easily dodged. There is plenty of time to warp out, IF you can see it coming.

The issue is that in QY6, for example, the entire fleet warped in and than sat looking at a black loading screen or an empty grid for 10 minutes. In the eve world, their ships were floating, vulnerable in space, in QY6, on the other side. They were unable to warp off, and thus completely helpless.

The defending side also gets horrible lag, so generally it's a 'fair fight' in that both sides are struggling to cope with huge minute long module lag and targeting delays, but in the titan's case all they have to do is push a single button. This gives the defender an unreasonable advantage. So does having many multiple titans, so that you can always cover one vulnerable doomsday'd titan with another, and another, and another.

[Quinton]

The defending side also gets horrible lag, so generally it's a 'fair fight' in that both sides are struggling to cope with huge minute long module lag and targeting delays, but in the titan's case all they have to do is push a single button. This gives the defender an unreasonable advantage. So does having many multiple titans, so that you can always cover one vulnerable doomsday'd titan with another, and another, and another.

The lag issues keep making me think that CCP should really consider gritting their teeth and imposing some kind of limit on ships in system or some other "immersion breaking" limits to balance functional gameplay over multiple-hundred-ship fleet battles, if mutliple-hundred-ship fleet battles just kill the game.

Of course that's not a magic solution since you can't just put a hard MAX_SHIPS cap on it or the defenders could maintain enough of a presence to "fill" the a system, etc, etc.  Game design is hard! ^^

- Q

[ajax34i]

They could limit the size of fleets to, say, 50, and have a hard cap per system, max 200 pilots, with the further limitation that each alliance can only bring one fleet in.  If you have people in-system and they're not in the 50-man fleet that you want to bring in, you better tell them to get out so you can bring your fleet in.

What's gonna happen, though, is the game will continue as is for as long as possible, with as few changes as possible.  Factional warfare and Ambulation ...  vaporware.

[Viin]

Or they could do what the Colorado gov'ment is doing to I70.. putting a toll booth on a free interstate highway to reduce the amount of traffic going into the mountains for skiing.

[Jayce]

One problem with capping the number of people per system is that you could choke-point certain systems during battles... though if it were 200 pilots it would take a big investment in idle manpower to cut someone off from their reinforcements.  I don't know how big fleets the big alliances roll with though.  You'd have to have enough people leftover to actually fight too.

[Der Helm]

One problem with capping the number of people per system is that you could choke-point certain systems during battles... though if it were 200 pilots it would take a big investment in idle manpower to cut someone off from their reinforcements.  I don't know how big fleets the big alliances roll with though.  You'd have to have enough people leftover to actually fight too.

I still think this is their best bet.

From a strategic point of view you could definetly call it a success if you get hundreds of enemies to block a system where nobody is fighting them. Because, you know, they are not fighting.

Or maybe start queques upon approaching overloaded status and then shut down the system, kick everybody and repopulate randomly from queque and people in system ?

Also, how the fuck do you spell queque ? Queque ?

edit: like in "row" ? People standing in line ? Fuck if I know.

[lac]

Que?
No hablos Inglés.

AAA reset standings. As expected IAC is not on the list. Bit of a strange day to make big announcements but any way, if they do get it on it should make Providence a bit safer no?

[Endie]

AAA reset standings. As expected IAC is not on the list. Bit of a strange day to make big announcements but any way, if they do get it on it should make Providence a bit safer no?

Sweet.  Hopefully, us, CVA, Paxton Sylph et al will be heading down to defend IAC a bit soon.  AAA are tough, scary opponents but I reckon that our sniper squadrons can have them in sub-capital fights.  Time to brush up my Rokh skills.

PS it is "queue".

[Morat20]

PS it is "queue".

I spell it FIFO. :)

[Grand Design]

Yeah, but LIFO is fun for all.





Edit: Cuz I r stoopid.

[Gets]

I'm hearing MC lost a titan. Lossmail not yet posted (due to nerd-rage?). Allso lost an unfitted dread.

Hell if I know where this info is coming from. Somehow I don't see the hundreds of threads about it. Perhaps it wasn't GoonSwarm that did it?

[JoeTF]

We had 3 titan lossmails posted so far, so well...look at the date

[Endie]

We had 3 titan lossmails posted so far, so well...look at the date

I didn't see them, but I hope that one was captained by Remedial, another was killed by moas with target painters, and that top damage on the third went to a faction-fitted velator.

[lac]

And the AAA IAC war starts with a nice bit of drama
The quick and dirty: the IAC head honcho stole two motherships from his alliance and sold them for personal gain.