Planetside 2

[Mrbloodworth]

PS1 had open squads and a squad finder, including AOE invite in sanctuary. However it did not automatically group you, not sure PS2 will. Walking into an encounter and being automatically added to a squad would be, odd, and at odds with the team based focus. PUG's in Plantside do not work to well, hell they even added a proximity XP boost to squads and it didn't work to well.

[Ratman_tf]

PlanetSide 2: What we know and what we hope.

Thousands of skills? Why not hojillion-kajillions? How many fucking skills do you need to shoot a guy in the fucking face?

*Edit*

Dude. Assembling a force in Sancutary and then rolling on an objective was fun and cool. :( Taking that out is assinine.

[Malakili]

I think spawning on squad is essential frankly.  Yes, I know it isn't ideal given some of the large scale stuff we want/have been talking about.  But the average player just plain isn't going to wait around to fight when there are a dozen shooters out there that keep them in the action constantly.   And without "casual" players, the game isn't going to last. 

[Speedy Cerviche]

[Strike 1 for me. Spawning directly in battle without a facility to spawn from is a huge change. If effectively will render towers and AMS's useless. Use of these were essential for the large open battles and controlling said battles by eliminating spawn points and pushing factions back from an offensive. I can not see anything redeeming about spawning directly within your squad... other than because it is how other games work. This just screams to me that they are narrowing their focus of battles - if anything, PS was more about the chess match of taking bases to lock a continent. Meh... I should just stop reading this nonsense till the game is out because this is just sounding more and more like one big god damn disappointment. . . . then again, SOE 

Towers were stupid and crappy battles. The best battles were over things like hilltops and bridges, not inside a tower or base tunnel with 50 people spamming like crazy over a doorway or stairwell to capture an objective, with lots of spawncamping too to keep down all the people just trying to get back into the fuck. Bad design and completely outdated now.

Removing "spawnpoint" out of objective design allows the devs to make them more interesting, variable, and design them more around combat parameters and flow than as spawning points.

[Ratman_tf]

I think spawning on squad is essential frankly.  Yes, I know it isn't ideal given some of the large scale stuff we want/have been talking about.  But the average player just plain isn't going to wait around to fight when there are a dozen shooters out there that keep them in the action constantly.   And without "casual" players, the game isn't going to last. 

People with that level of ADD aren't going to last more than a couple of days no matter what they do.

[Mrbloodworth]

Removing "spawnpoint" out of objective design allows the devs to make them more interesting, variable, and design them more around combat parameters and flow than as spawning points.

Its a war game, spawn points are part of denying logistics.  This is not a game where kills are all that matter and everything resets.

I think spawning on squad is essential frankly.  Yes, I know it isn't ideal given some of the large scale stuff we want/have been talking about.  But the average player just plain isn't going to wait around to fight when there are a dozen shooters out there that keep them in the action constantly.   And without "casual" players, the game isn't going to last. 

On one hand i agree. Insta-spawn will allow a friend of mine to perhaps enjoy the game a bit more with out being lost because she died. ON THE OTHER HAND, I feel this dilutes the war game part of the game. Then again, if its drop pod based, that not that much of an issue, insta-spawn, is an issue for me.

[LK]

Its a war game, spawn points are part of denying logistics.  This is not a game where kills are all that matter and everything resets.

That won't stop players from seeing it that way.

Remember, the behavior the game is designed to encourage doesn't mean the players want to play the game that way. I'm not saying accommodate them, but your average FPS player may not be all that interested in tactics and battlefield strategy. They just want to shoot the guy. In the head. Big Boom.

[Slayerik]

An AMS would still be useful though, even with squad leader spawn points.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Its a war game, spawn points are part of denying logistics.  This is not a game where kills are all that matter and everything resets.

Devs can do better in thinking up methods of dealing logistical damage than spawn camping.

Since they are talking up the importance of resources and throwing around words like "eve-sandbox-economy", one assumes there's a bit more importance placed on resource flows, which would presumably mean objectives based around their harvesting, refinement, transport, storage and eventual production use.

Seems a bit more interesting than securing a nice perch so you can toss grenades down a stairway into the enemy's spawn room.

A bit of an aside, but maybe area spawning could be tied into BF2142 "titan" destroyable airbases, those were really cool. Combination of flying battlestation, aircraft carrier, and mobile spawnpoint. Could be brought down from inside and outside. Tie into economy since they are large capital/resource investments, clan built/controlled ones would be a nice vanity item, maybe with special designs too.

[Sky]

Remember, the behavior the game is designed to encourage doesn't mean the players want to play the game that way. I'm not saying accommodate them, but your average FPS player may not be all that interested in tactics and battlefield strategy. They just want to shoot the guy. In the head. Big Boom.

You should encourage the GIs to play exactly that way and reward them for it. However, put in a command and support structure that rewards players who move beyond the typical shooter.

Man, I would sure like some sort of reward for the time I spent trying to play as a defensive player in PS. Support play is at least somewhat recognized, but defensive play is pretty much ignored.

[Malakili]

I think spawning on squad is essential frankly.  Yes, I know it isn't ideal given some of the large scale stuff we want/have been talking about.  But the average player just plain isn't going to wait around to fight when there are a dozen shooters out there that keep them in the action constantly.   And without "casual" players, the game isn't going to last. 

People with that level of ADD aren't going to last more than a couple of days no matter what they do.

Yeah, its fun to just be like "stupid kids with ADD lololol" but come on, you know thats taking the easy way out.  Fact of the matter is, most people find it fun to actually PLAY the game, not to sit around waiting.   Believe me, I play WW2O so I'm perfectly happy spending an hour setting up before anything happens, but realistically speaking most people aren't going to wait even a 1/4th of that when they've got an hour or two to game that night and just want to get to shooting people.  I think they need to find a way to cut down the middle and give the hardcores the big strategic theater to play/work/think in, and give the casuals a way to quickly identify where the action is and dive in.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Yeah, its fun to just be like "stupid kids with ADD lololol" but come on, you know thats taking the easy way out.  Fact of the matter is, most people find it fun to actually PLAY the game, not to sit around waiting.   Believe me, I play WW2O so I'm perfectly happy spending an hour setting up before anything happens, but realistically speaking most people aren't going to wait even a 1/4th of that when they've got an hour or two to game that night and just want to get to shooting people.  I think they need to find a way to cut down the middle and give the hardcores the big strategic theater to play/work/think in, and give the casuals a way to quickly identify where the action is and dive in.

From my experience playing Darkfall which also has tactical and strategic layers going into large scale FPS style battles, I gotta say that only a single digit % of people want to do logistical planning and prep work for a major siege, about the same amount are interested in being field commanders to lead the actual combat. The rest just want to, and are perfectly happy showing up on time, being told where to march, where to fire, and getting their fight on. Now those single digit % logistical people and commanders are VERY important and add a lot of depth to the game if they are allowed to, given the tools and game elements, and this depth is what will set planetside apart from most FPS games and will appeal to FPS players looking for more meat to their game, even if they don't want to do the heavy thinking themselves. They just want to log in, find their fluid battle action and be directed where to go and pew pew.

Seems to me like SOE understands this, if you recall the talk about their mission system where people up in the command levels can create missions for individuals, squads, outfits and the entire faction even. So the happy soldier logs in, sees some missions posted, accepts and heads off to fragtown with a sense of MMO purpose.

[01101010]

Towers were stupid and crappy battles. The best battles were over things like hilltops and bridges, not inside a tower or base tunnel with 50 people spamming like crazy over a doorway or stairwell to capture an objective, with lots of spawncamping too to keep down all the people just trying to get back into the fuck. Bad design and completely outdated now.

Removing "spawnpoint" out of objective design allows the devs to make them more interesting, variable, and design them more around combat parameters and flow than as spawning points.

YMMV on towers... however, they were key in providing a static spawn point on the field of battle that was less disposable than a AMS. Best battles are subjective, and I have great memories of bridge battles but just as many great memories trying to take bases. Those battles for hilltops and bridges were only a path to the objective and the battle was moved out to there on occasion. Next thing they'll be telling us on these press releases is there will be no bases.

I'll respectfully disagree with the point that people will not accept anything less than spawning with their squad. Some of those bullshit changes SOE made to PS which killed the game for a lot of people came from the whining community who got their way and then bitched no one was around anymore to play with... I can't stomach a preemptive concept change because they want to cater to everyone and anyone. Waters down the core of the game which means you get a half-ass solo player experience, a half-ass squad/platoon experience, a shitty war/battle experience, and just a half-assed game for everyone that no one will play in a few weeks.

My interest in this game is tailing off severely because frankly, I can't see this as being anything other than another COD with more people. Everything they have said so far, aside for the name, just feels outside the planetside concept. Without the battleplan/logistical side of it, it just is not Planetside, IMHO.

[Ratman_tf]

I think spawning on squad is essential frankly.  Yes, I know it isn't ideal given some of the large scale stuff we want/have been talking about.  But the average player just plain isn't going to wait around to fight when there are a dozen shooters out there that keep them in the action constantly.   And without "casual" players, the game isn't going to last.  

People with that level of ADD aren't going to last more than a couple of days no matter what they do.

Yeah, its fun to just be like "stupid kids with ADD lololol" but come on, you know thats taking the easy way out.  Fact of the matter is, most people find it fun to actually PLAY the game, not to sit around waiting.   Believe me, I play WW2O so I'm perfectly happy spending an hour setting up before anything happens, but realistically speaking most people aren't going to wait even a 1/4th of that when they've got an hour or two to game that night and just want to get to shooting people.  I think they need to find a way to cut down the middle and give the hardcores the big strategic theater to play/work/think in, and give the casuals a way to quickly identify where the action is and dive in.

And PS1 had that with the drop pod system. You load the game, head to the HART, and pick the place with the biggest/most action marker things. Zoom, blam, start shooting people.

Spawn on a squad? How does that even work? How do you drive off an enemy force that constantly replenishes it's forces like that?

[Malakili]

Spawn on a squad? How does that even work? How do you drive off an enemy force that constantly replenishes it's forces like that?

Until we know the details of how the spawning system works its not worth making this kind of specific gameplay judgement.   We can pontificate all day about pacing and combined arms and big battles and how mechanics might or might not support the kind of gameplay we want and thats all fine and good, but now you're talking really specific.

[Surlyboi]

Towers were stupid and crappy battles. The best battles were over things like hilltops and bridges, not inside a tower or base tunnel with 50 people spamming like crazy over a doorway or stairwell to capture an objective, with lots of spawncamping too to keep down all the people just trying to get back into the fuck. Bad design and completely outdated now.

Removing "spawnpoint" out of objective design allows the devs to make them more interesting, variable, and design them more around combat parameters and flow than as spawning points.

Gotta respectfully disagree here. One of the most epic fights I ever had in PS was a three way for a tower that lasted about six hours.

[shiznitz]

Put me in the tower fight fan camp.  I just wish the towers had some more variety.  In general, PS1 needed more structure variety.  Dropping on a tower roof and fighting down the stairs was pretty much always the most fun for me.  The second most fun was defending against a tower drop.  Boomers!

[Ratman_tf]

Spawn on a squad? How does that even work? How do you drive off an enemy force that constantly replenishes it's forces like that?

Until we know the details of how the spawning system works its not worth making this kind of specific gameplay judgement.   We can pontificate all day about pacing and combined arms and big battles and how mechanics might or might not support the kind of gameplay we want and thats all fine and good, but now you're talking really specific.

And while I admit we don't know enough right now, I can't imagine a way that "spawn on squad" could mean anything good, and goddamit, I want to rant about it on the internet!

[Mrbloodworth]

From what I read, its just drop-pods. But thats not confirmed, could have been an assumption on the part of the article reader.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Gotta respectfully disagree here. One of the most epic fights I ever had in PS was a three way for a tower that lasted about six hours.

It was epic because you had a 3 way fight for 6 hours involving hundreds of people. Not because the objective itself (spawn tower #203943753) was anything special.

Just saying they can do better with objectives. The bar can be a little better than a generic spawn point to move yardsticks.

[Ingmar]

From what I read, its just drop-pods. But thats not confirmed, could have been an assumption on the part of the article reader.

Even that doesn't tell us anything really, it could just be a 40k-esque animation of a drop pod landing accompanying an instant spawn.

[Malakili]

And while I admit we don't know enough right now, I can't imagine a way that "spawn on squad" could mean anything good,

This is pure speculation, but here is just one way off the top of my head, it could work, while still having objectives matter to spawning:

Respawn timers could be based on the number of objectives that power some kind of spawn devices for your side in the current area (something something lore, spawn things, require power, control more to spawn faster, cut off opponents ability to spawn quickly on their team mates).   This would be a big advantage to the side that controlled them, and still let people spawn right into the thick of combat.

[01101010]

And while I admit we don't know enough right now, I can't imagine a way that "spawn on squad" could mean anything good,

This is pure speculation, but here is just one way off the top of my head, it could work, while still having objectives matter to spawning:

Respawn timers could be based on the number of objectives that power some kind of spawn devices for your side in the current area (something something lore, spawn things, require power, control more to spawn faster, cut off opponents ability to spawn quickly on their team mates).   This would be a big advantage to the side that controlled them, and still let people spawn right into the thick of combat.

Doesn't that mean that the losing side now has to wait even longer to get back into the fight? Still does not have the effect that a last second AMS deploy had on flipping a base.

[Malakili]

And while I admit we don't know enough right now, I can't imagine a way that "spawn on squad" could mean anything good,

This is pure speculation, but here is just one way off the top of my head, it could work, while still having objectives matter to spawning:

Respawn timers could be based on the number of objectives that power some kind of spawn devices for your side in the current area (something something lore, spawn things, require power, control more to spawn faster, cut off opponents ability to spawn quickly on their team mates).   This would be a big advantage to the side that controlled them, and still let people spawn right into the thick of combat.

Doesn't that mean that the losing side now has to wait even longer to get back into the fight? Still does not have the effect that a last second AMS deploy had on flipping a base.

Believe it or not, an idea off the top of my head might not have been the ideal way to do it.  But the point was that *given* a spawn on squad system, that could hypothetically be a way to do it in a way that didn't totally suck.

[DLRiley]

Towers were stupid and crappy battles. The best battles were over things like hilltops and bridges, not inside a tower or base tunnel with 50 people spamming like crazy over a doorway or stairwell to capture an objective, with lots of spawncamping too to keep down all the people just trying to get back into the fuck. Bad design and completely outdated now.

Removing "spawnpoint" out of objective design allows the devs to make them more interesting, variable, and design them more around combat parameters and flow than as spawning points.

YMMV on towers... however, they were key in providing a static spawn point on the field of battle that was less disposable than a AMS. Best battles are subjective, and I have great memories of bridge battles but just as many great memories trying to take bases. Those battles for hilltops and bridges were only a path to the objective and the battle was moved out to there on occasion. Next thing they'll be telling us on these press releases is there will be no bases.

I'll respectfully disagree with the point that people will not accept anything less than spawning with their squad. Some of those bullshit changes SOE made to PTF@.S which killed the game for a lot of people came from the whining community who got their way and then bitched no one was around anymore to play with... I can't stomach a preemptive concept change because they want to cater to everyone and anyone. Waters down the core of the game which means you get a half-ass solo player experience, a half-ass squad/platoon experience, a shitty war/battle experience, and just a half-assed game for everyone that no one will play in a few weeks.

My interest in this game is tailing off severely because frankly, I can't see this as being anything other than another COD with more people. Everything they have said so far, aside for the name, just feels outside the planetside concept. Without the battleplan/logistical side of it, it just is not Planetside, IMHO.

I would play COD on a PC set in a scifi setting where people die as easily as they would in say TF2. Me and anyone else who watched a large firefight in starwars and thought "fuck yeah". Sure the ps2 you want may be great at cannablizing the playerbase of a game like global agenda  or may suck away from ww2o guys, but i'm sure SoE isn't itching to replace ps1 so it can flop against every modern fps in the market. especially with bf3 coming out.

[Sky]

I liked the towers. Secondary objectives are a good idea. Could they have been made more interesting? Sure. But the concept is solid.

One of my (many!) favorite moments was duking it out inf CE vs inf CE over a tower at the fringe of a big slogfest of a battle. We were pretty evenly matched and inventive, it was a great dual puzzle game, each of us trying to out-puzzle the other and kind of a tower defense thing (heh). Then you'd get some random combat squad rolling through and all our defenses that mostly didn't affect the other CE would all start firing off and you'd rack up a quick line of kills...only to grumble because you'd have to go replace those defenses and the other CE would be clued into where you were...so did you do that or use it as an ambush? Or go try to take out his AMS.

And then something in the main battle would shift and suddenly the tower became a prime spawn point and everything went to chaos.

[KallDrexx]

Um yeah.  While my PS experience was back in 2003, I did not find it fun that every time I accidentally ran into a mech, or got sniped, or got bombed (usually by teammates) that I would have to spend all the time to run to the drop ship, wait, get dropped somewhere and run all the way back to the fight only to die and repeat.

[01101010]

Um yeah.  While my PS experience was back in 2003, I did not find it fun that every time I accidentally ran into a mech, or got sniped, or got bombed (usually by teammates) that I would have to spend all the time to run to the drop ship, wait, get dropped somewhere and run all the way back to the fight only to die and repeat.

Which is why I would get yelled at on TS by my outfit to hack out a god damn AMS. :D

What you are describing is EXACTLY why you needed a battle plan to establish a foothold point to a continent and work out from it and defend it. Yeah, there were plenty of times I'd die and notice the only spawn points on the continent were some lonely tower somewhere off in a field, a base that was being camped (if they didn't drop the tubes), or I'd have to go back to sanc. If you lost that last tower, you lost the continent and that was the objective by the other team. TA DA, the other side won the continent... that is the type of shit that is SUPPOSED to happen and makes invading a continent more organized than a shoot-em up fest/team deathmatch game. I am just hoping that is not lost on this game...

Now I need a cigarette... 

[Mrbloodworth]

Um yeah.  While my PS experience was back in 2003, I did not find it fun that every time I accidentally ran into a mech, or got sniped, or got bombed (usually by teammates) that I would have to spend all the time to run to the drop ship, wait, get dropped somewhere and run all the way back to the fight only to die and repeat.

Doing it wrong.

[Nija]

For spawning they need to directly copy the AA / controllable drop ship spawn from Section 8.

Directly copy that shit, it's the best respawn system so far.

[eldaec]

90% of my PS experience was fucking around in a mosquito, hunting snipers, dueling reavertards, and irritating AA maxes who didn't appear to be able to do shit about anything so long as my throttle stayed over 75%.

Good times, for a few weeks anyway.

[Mrbloodworth]

For spawning they need to directly copy the AA / controllable drop ship spawn from Section 8.

Directly copy that shit, it's the best respawn system so far.

Its how I imagine the new system to be TBH, just with out the AA, but a cert point sink.

[Sky]

Um yeah.  While my PS experience was back in 2003, I did not find it fun that every time I accidentally ran into a mech, or got sniped, or got bombed (usually by teammates) that I would have to spend all the time to run to the drop ship, wait, get dropped somewhere and run all the way back to the fight only to die and repeat.

Say what now?

[Ratman_tf]

I hated having to replace all my gear when I died in World of Warcraft.   

[Sky]

You only had to replace your gear? I had to start over from level 1 when my hunter died.