SWTOR

[Surlyboi]

Bingo

[Rasix]

I'm not going to potentially jeopardize someone's employment because I want more convenient access to my NDA breakage.

edit: And yah, put me into the "giant square" category.  I think that's pretty well known by now. 

[caladein]

Honestly, one of the things I quite like about f13 is that we don't treat NDA breaks as fait accompli.  Partially because I'm a massive square (and if you want to inform your own purchasing decision the resources are out there) but mostly because people armchairing about something without any attempt at understanding context makes me stabby.

[Kirth]

Honestly, one of the things I quite like about f13 is that we don't treat NDA breaks as fait accompli.  Partially because I'm a massive square (and if you want to inform your own purchasing decision the resources are out there) but mostly because people armchairing about something without any attempt at understanding context makes me stabby.

I totally agree.

[eldaec]

Sony send Rasix, Trippy et al early beta spots gin and whores every time they oppress someone re: NDAs imo.

Fight the power and so on.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-14450248

London riots: Violence erupts for third day

Riot police have again been deployed to the streets of London as violence broke out for a third day.

Police have clashed with rioters in Hackney and vehicles have been set on fire in Peckham and Lewisham.

It follows two nights of violence over the weekend following the moderator 'Rasix' giving someone a good telling off about NDAs on a popular fighter jet themed internet community website.

London's mayor Boris Johnson is cutting short his holiday to return to the capital as more than 200 people have been arrested and 35 officers injured.

Home Secretary Theresa May also returned early from holiday to meet Acting Metropolitan Police (Met) Commissioner Tim Godwin and other senior officers.

[apocrypha]

Didn't throw abuse at you. I threw it. You happened to jump in the way.

Fair do's, I am in mild nicotine withdrawal today (for like the 3rd time in 2 years) so, whatever :p

I still think the standing-still-shooting-at-each-other combat looks retarded though 

[01101010]

Didn't throw abuse at you. I threw it. You happened to jump in the way.

Fair do's, I am in mild nicotine withdrawal today (for like the 3rd time in 2 years) so, whatever :p

I still think the standing-still-shooting-at-each-other combat looks retarded though 

I tend to agree... even STO attempted to give movement to their ground combat.

[Sobelius]

I still think the standing-still-shooting-at-each-other combat looks retarded though 

But don't you have to stand relatively still to get off a decently effective shot from most projectile weapons?

What I think looks ridiculous is combatants standing out in the open -- i.e. no cover - and standing still (whether shooting or not) in the middle of a firefight. At least the smuggler gets to use cover, and the light-saber wielders move around when deflecting shots. It's the toons that just stand there and exchange shots without any pretense of defense that looks horrible. All that effort they put into character dialogue/voice-over and story/personality, but then during fights the characters lose all sense of personality?

[sam, an eggplant]

The iconic bounty hunter is obviously Boba Fett. He didn't take cover; he used his jetpack and launched rockets from the air. SWTOR has that, alongside flamethrowers and a bunch of other tricks. It feels (sorry) star-wars'ey.

The SWTOR trooper doesn't really have a SW movie analogue. The closest is the stormtrooper/clone army, but they're cannon fodder so who wants to play as one of them? Think of them as space marines, carrying huge gatling lasers with mounted grenade launchers.

[Ingmar]

The iconic bounty hunter is obviously Boba Fett. He didn't take cover; he used his jetpack and launched rockets from the air. SWTOR has that, alongside flamethrowers and a bunch of other tricks. It feels (sorry) star-wars'ey.

The SWTOR trooper doesn't really have a SW movie analogue. The closest is the stormtrooper/clone army, but they're cannon fodder so who wants to play as one of them? Think of them as space marines, carrying huge gatling lasers with mounted grenade launchers.

Or just watch the Clone Wars cartoon, really.

[Fordel]

Did someone light the Trooper signal?  



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaJ06YqytYM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgY00sSi7F4 -edit I apparently pasted only half the link :( - -edit 2 I fixed it! :) -



There's also one of my favorite games : http://store.steampowered.com/app/6000/ Republic Commando, has a bunch of Novels around the concept too. Pretty good as far as StarWars books go and the game is great.

[Chimpy]

Can we treat Fordel posting that damn trooper .GIF the same way we treat the posting of Sky's "best avatard ever"?

[Rasix]

No.

[Merusk]

Great, because it's still awesome.

[Malakili]

They've really gone out of their way to hype up the trooper in the CG videos.  I kind of get the impression its supposed to be like a specialist or something, not one of the standard troopers.  Then again, it doesn't really matter.

[Lantyssa]

Take one frame of your trooper video and replay it forty times.  That will be SWTOR combat.  Not shooting each target once or twice and jumping to the next in an action packed slaughter of droids.

[Fordel]

Take one frame of your trooper video and replay it forty times.  That will be SWTOR combat.  Not shooting each target once or twice and jumping to the next in an action packed slaughter of droids.

Next you'll tell me one stab of my sword won't kill a man in WoW! 

[Samprimary]

I think the best reason for the NDA coming down at this point is that most places on the internet have reached that sort of critical nitpicky mass where everything is mountains out of (fragments of leaked) molehills, and it gets a little bit tedious after a while.

[Kageru]

Did someone light the Trooper signal? 

Wow, I've never watched that cartoon before but that is some tragically bad animation.

I did watch some gameplay video (several characters doing an instance) and watching the lead guy shoot 40-50 shots and several grenades into one opponent before they fall down looked terrible. The blaster having lots of misses, deflections, target evading and a few telling shots would have looked so much better. Perhaps have a hidden "real" hit point bar and a visible "rendered hits" being 1/10th of that would have worked better.

[Samprimary]

Wow, I've never watched that cartoon before but that is some tragically bad animation.

The artistic theme of the series is Genndy Tartakovsky going off the deep end after Samurai Jack, trying for minimalist 'stylized' cartoonery which, honestly, I think will be remembered as pretty goddamned ugly.

The character design was particularly bad. Anakin looked like he had been hit by a truck.

[Crumbs]

Wow, I've never watched that cartoon before but that is some tragically bad animation.

The artistic theme of the series is Genndy Tartakovsky going off the deep end after Samurai Jack, trying for minimalist 'stylized' cartoonery which, honestly, I think will be remembered as pretty goddamned ugly.

The character design was particularly bad. Anakin looked like he had been hit by a truck.

To each his own, but I hope you don't think eps 1-3 possessed even a fraction of the quality of Tartakovsky's CW. 

[Spiff]

I did watch some gameplay video (several characters doing an instance) and watching the lead guy shoot 40-50 shots and several grenades into one opponent before they fall down looked terrible.

I do remember them talking all about how you'd be 'a real hero' taking on hordes of enemies in SWOR instead of just beating on a few freakishly strong ones, way back when this thread was still on double digits.
This made me hope it would have more of a CoX feel to it, I don't get that from the videos.

Also the cover system seems very underused, sounded like a potentially nice twist on ranged combat, but it's really only the smuggler that occasionally seems to use it (and not even all that much from what I've seen).

I don't want it to look like exactly like Star Wars did (I'm not that delusional), I want it to feel like it;
i.e. like the coolest shit I've ever seen!
I'm not 9 years old any more, so that may be a bit much, but I'd like a little less KoToR and a little more Fordel's GiF.

[Fordel]

I'll be honest, my distant delusional hope was the game was going to be much closer to MassEffect style combat, then traditional MMO stuff. ME Pretty much has all the blaster, gadgets and forcepower stuff already, but the melee stuff balls it all up I imagine.


Oh well.

[Lantyssa]

I think the huge piles of money going into it is what messes it up.  ME style combat would have gone over smashingly well.

[Mrbloodworth]

Meh.

[Murgos]

I think the huge piles of money going into it is what messes it up.  ME style combat would have gone over smashingly well.

I'm sorry, I missed it.  What part of ME didn't have you standing stock still emptying full clips into things to work down their health bar?

[Sobelius]

Part of the problem is that we're watching the gameplay, not playing it. Perhaps it will feel different when we're in the middle of the fight? (I'm guessing no. But it occurred to me that when I'm playing I usually never stop to think about whether the PvE opponent is standing still or not; in PvP I expect them to move around quite a bit.)

Anyone have links to video examples of MMO ranged combat that doesn't look like this? Say, perhaps, a rogue from RIFT using Swift Shot with a gun to run around and pew pew? is that what we're all saying we kind of want to see in SWTOR?

[Nebu]

Anyone have links to video examples of MMO ranged combat that doesn't look like this? Say, perhaps, a rogue from RIFT using Swift Shot with a gun to run around and pew pew? is that what we're all saying we kind of want to see in SWTOR?

I'd love to see some pvp video.  That will tell me a lot about the game and the combat mechanics. 

[Mrbloodworth]

Anyone have links to video examples of MMO ranged combat that doesn't look like this? Say, perhaps, a rogue from RIFT using Swift Shot with a gun to run around and pew pew? is that what we're all saying we kind of want to see in SWTOR?

http://www.firefallthegame.com/

http://vindictus.nexon.net/

http://www.planetside2.com/

http://www.tera-online.com/

http://www.bladeandsoul.com/global/en

http://www.globalagendagame.com/

http://www.drakensang-online.com/

I could go on...


Personally, I have fatigue with the "standard" MMO combat. Its tiresome to me. I am very glad there is movements away from it, though it will never truly go away. For me, its not just ranged combat, but the trillions of billions of "abilities" that have no utility, just different numbers. When it comes to gunfire, I cringe at projectiles that bend paths. Spells, no so much.

But in many games, there is no difference between a spell, a gun, a projectile, or for that matter even a sword swing. Did you have them targeted? Then you hit.    Move around? Line of sight? Not very present.

I have watched a number of SWTOR combat videos, I kept asking myself why they are moving around so much, there is no reason to in most cases, its just the developers trying to make it look more action packed. Its true, games not have AOEs and other positional stuff to avoid, but really.... Its the base combat I think I am burnt out on.

[Nebu]

Any of those pvp? I'll take a peek.

[Mrbloodworth]

Any of those pvp? I'll take a peek.

Some yeah. I listed them because they have a fundamentally different combat system than your standard MMORPG. Quality may vary.

[Lantyssa]

Planetside 2 and Blade and Soul will have PvP.  Vindictus doesn't, though the combat model is at least worth looking at as an idea on how to do something different.  Not sure on any of the others.

Firefall or Planetside 2 are probably going to be the most applicable to how SWTOR could have done more exciting combat.

[Nebu]

Firefall or Planetside 2 are probably going to be the most applicable to how SWTOR could have done more exciting combat.

Planetside really failed for me.  It played like an FPS, but there were already a multitude of FPS available that were better.  I don't think persistence really ever helped PS as the battles really never meant anything... much like an FPS.  If PS2 can find a middle ground between character development and a solid objective-based pvp mechanism, I may get excited about it.

[Mrbloodworth]

Planetside 2 and Blade and Soul will have PvP.  Vindictus doesn't, though the combat model is at least worth looking at as an idea on how to do something different.  Not sure on any of the others.

Firefall or Planetside 2 are probably going to be the most applicable to how SWTOR could have done more exciting combat.

They all have action based combat. Hell, we can toss Darkfall in there too. They at least tried, and in some cases, succeeded in bring an action combat system to the mix. Hell, FALLEN EARTH is even closer to more action based while maintaining some RPG conventions. While quality of the overall games may vary, saying anything but standard RPG combat is not possible is quite far off.

SWTOR is simple catering ( likely rightly so ) to those that enjoy this form of numbers based combat. I liked it to, for over 10 years, I need more now. Less calculators, more face smashing please.




( Doing my part to get to 300 )

[Mrbloodworth]

Vindictus does have PvP BTW. But its arena based, of course.