SWTOR

[luckton]

2) Expansions, how the hell will they successfully do expansions to this game?

This is something I have been sort of wondering about myself.  Do they have all their VAs on extended contracts so that no one can back out in three years?  What happens if someone gets hit by a bus?  

I guess the only thing I can think of is that they have made a conscious decision to cross that bridge when they get to it.  It will be a little weird to have your characters voice change when you ding 51 if you've just spent a year or more listening to him/her but if they can swap Darrens or Beckys between seasons without everyone freaking out maybe it doesn't really matter.

Kinda like how there's 3-4 different Gandalfs across the expansions and patches?   

[sam, an eggplant]

I would have never imagined I would be in on launch day, given all I know and say about MMO's.

Don't think of it as a MMO, think of it as a bioware game with diku-style combat.

Most people don't play these things as multiplayer games anyway. That's the secret to WoW's initial success, the solo leveling-up game is awesome, always moving on to explore new fresh content, and there's plenty of it. When you hit max level, maybe you quit, maybe you start raiding, maybe you PvP, but all of those are entirely different games than leveling-up.

I wouldn't expect SWTOR to be any different-- from what I've read they don't have a brilliant innovative answer for the elder game, they've just improved that leveling experience by acknowledging that, yeah, it's really a single-player game, and bioware makes awesome story-based single-player RPGs, so make a bunch of them and use that.

[amiable]

PA just put up a post about swtor.  My wife got into beta and she emphatically agrees with the assessment(which was positive).

[Rasix]

PA just put up a post about swtor.  My wife got into beta and she emphatically agrees with the assessment(which was positive).

 

[luckton]

PA just put up a post about swtor.  My wife got into beta and she emphatically agrees with the assessment(which was positive).

 

Pre-emptive excuse of "I can't be expected to read 200+ pages of  ." here.

[Velorath]

2) Expansions, how the hell will they successfully do expansions to this game?

This is something I have been sort of wondering about myself.  Do they have all their VAs on extended contracts so that no one can back out in three years?  What happens if someone gets hit by a bus?  

The same thing that happens if someone gets hit by a bus before Mass Effect 3 is finished I guess, or the same thing that would happen if Daniel Radcliffe had been hit by a bus somewhere between Harry Potter's 1 and 8.

[Riggswolfe]

I'm ready to preorder this myself. I only have a few remaining worries at this point:

1) End game. All they've mentioned is raiding or pvp. Both of them have little long term interest for me.
2) Expansions, how the hell will they successfully do expansions to this game?
3) Other players. I want to do the story. I won't be skipping cutscenes or anything of the sort. I worry that the game will be filled with typical MMO players going "hurry up dude and just click kill him" or whatever. For this reason I suspect I will pug much less in this game than in previous games.

1) Daily repeatables are in there too.  But they claim that their PvP and raiding will be "sooooooo awsome".
2) Probably just like any other MMO at this point...but with a story 
3) The consensus I'm seeing is BW wants those typical MMO players to go DIAF.  Story is what's driving this game, and they aren't bending just yet to those people.

1) they can make them as awesome as they want but I get very, very bored grinding a raid over and over. I just don't have enough mouse in me to get enjoyment out of hitting the pedal to maybe get 1/8th of a piece of cheese if I beat the other mice to it. I generally suck at pvp. I play it for awhile but get bored/pissed when I can't hit the guy spazzing around me in tight circles.
2) Yes but the story will mean expansions will either A) have subpar stories, think the DA expansion compared to DA:O or will be on a time table more akin to Blizzard's than to other MMOS.
3) I agree with BW. My big worry is the forums will fill with these guys whining "I had to wait 5 minutes for another player to listen to the cutscene. WTF?" and it may have some kind of in-game effect after the EA suits get worried about retention of these people.

[Sky]

Pre-emptive excuse of "I can't be expected to read 200+ pages of  ." here.

But it's so fun to read the older parts of the thread.

From the same article:

We're not talking about any of that today, of course. The even bigger questions, such as whether complex storylines and AI buddies will work in MMOs, won't be answered until the game is released - and that could be years from now.

SWOR, the hottest MMO of 2011! 

That of course is the problem itself and the reason saying nothing at all is better than the bits they've said so far.

Ordinarily I'd agree, but this is Star Wars, so they have to give us plenty of time to reach page 100.

I think I linked to my first post in the thread when someone mentioned people getting more cynical as the thread went on:

Star Wars MMO? Eh, why bother? It's an mmo. Just put your balls in a vice and throw in the New Hope DVD.

[amiable]

PA just put up a post about swtor.  My wife got into beta and she emphatically agrees with the assessment(which was positive).

 

Pre-emptive excuse of "I can't be expected to read 200+ pages of  ." here.

Yeah, but I probably should have read the previous page!  Mea culpa.

[Simond]

I'm ready to preorder this myself. I only have a few remaining worries at this point:

1) End game. All they've mentioned is raiding or pvp. Both of them have little long term interest for me.
2) Expansions, how the hell will they successfully do expansions to this game?
3) Other players. I want to do the story. I won't be skipping cutscenes or anything of the sort. I worry that the game will be filled with typical MMO players going "hurry up dude and just click kill him" or whatever. For this reason I suspect I will pug much less in this game than in previous games.

1) Daily repeatables are in there too.  But they claim that their PvP and raiding will be "sooooooo awsome".
2) Probably just like any other MMO at this point...but with a story 
3) The consensus I'm seeing is BW wants those typical MMO players to go DIAF.  Story is what's driving this game, and they aren't bending just yet to those people.

1) they can make them as awesome as they want but I get very, very bored grinding a raid over and over. I just don't have enough mouse in me to get enjoyment out of hitting the pedal to maybe get 1/8th of a piece of cheese if I beat the other mice to it. I generally suck at pvp. I play it for awhile but get bored/pissed when I can't hit the guy spazzing around me in tight circles.

So what would you like as an endgame instead? Not being sarcastic, I'd like to know.

[Riggswolfe]

I'm ready to preorder this myself. I only have a few remaining worries at this point:

1) End game. All they've mentioned is raiding or pvp. Both of them have little long term interest for me.
2) Expansions, how the hell will they successfully do expansions to this game?
3) Other players. I want to do the story. I won't be skipping cutscenes or anything of the sort. I worry that the game will be filled with typical MMO players going "hurry up dude and just click kill him" or whatever. For this reason I suspect I will pug much less in this game than in previous games.

1) Daily repeatables are in there too.  But they claim that their PvP and raiding will be "sooooooo awsome".
2) Probably just like any other MMO at this point...but with a story  
3) The consensus I'm seeing is BW wants those typical MMO players to go DIAF.  Story is what's driving this game, and they aren't bending just yet to those people.

1) they can make them as awesome as they want but I get very, very bored grinding a raid over and over. I just don't have enough mouse in me to get enjoyment out of hitting the pedal to maybe get 1/8th of a piece of cheese if I beat the other mice to it. I generally suck at pvp. I play it for awhile but get bored/pissed when I can't hit the guy spazzing around me in tight circles.

So what would you like as an endgame instead? Not being sarcastic, I'd like to know.

Well, here is how I usually do things at End Game:

1) Run a raid or two on occasion, generally with the hope of getting a title and maybe getting lucky on a roll. Note this is usually after said Raids have become PUGable since I never seem to get into a guild that is large enough to do raids.
2) Try pvp. Get spanked and irritated by people running in circles around me. Stop after a week or two. Note that I usually play melee classes which is code for "target" in most Pvp setups unless you're a master of the running in circles around people thing I mentioned.
3) Finish up stuff I wanted to do while leveling but didn't. In LOTRO this was deed grinding, rep grinding, going back to old instances I missed "just because", running skirmishes, etc.
4) Get bored and unsubscribe until an expansion comes out.

MMOS almost always bore me at the end game. I suspect TOR will do the same. Thankfully with the story I will be slower to get there and also will end up playing other  alts as well which I usally don't do.

Speaking of LOTRO, I'd love it if their repeatable dailies were similar to the LOTRO skirmish system. Mini instanced battles that give rewards which can be bartered for other stuff.

Edit: TLDR version: I don't know. I have never been satisfied with MMO endgames and I'd love TOR to be different but don't think it will be. The one game that has come closest for me is LOTRO.

[Reg]

My plan for endgame is just to roll an alt. If SWTOR has something other than that for me to do that I'd actually enjoy I'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Sky]

The only games that have good endgames are non-diku. That's where the diku/EQ style progression breaks down...because it's all about progression.

[ghost]

The only games that have good endgames are non-diku.

Such as.......?

[Mrbloodworth]

Was about to say, why does it need an end game? But that covers it.

[Soln]

re-running everything again, but as a girl troll, is also a frequent end game.  Some titles are built around just alts.

[Surlyboi]

All I can say is I'm definitely preordering.

[Lakov_Sanite]

While that's a very positive review it's not very in depth. It really boils down to gabe saying "I really like this game and remember, its still beta!"

which means as always, there are issues. The question is, will this year be enough time to iron out all the wrinkles?

I'm gonna buy this game, play it and enjoy it but past the first month? All depends on how 'done' it is.

[Malakili]

While that's a very positive review it's not very in depth. It really boils down to gabe saying "I really like this game and remember, its still beta!"

which means as always, there are issues. The question is, will this year be enough time to iron out all the wrinkles?

I'm gonna buy this game, play it and enjoy it but past the first month? All depends on how 'done' it is.

Thats actually one of the advantages to this game actually.  If this was *just* DIKU Star Wars I'd honestly probably not care.  But they really have done a lot towards winning me over with the Bioware story/RPG thing because I figure that just for that its probably going to be worth the box price, where as most MMORPGs don't seem worth that to me (see: Rift).  If they manage to pull me in with the MMO stuff and keep me around (and others), they have a good shot at a lot of subs.  Then again, thats not particularly unique in the MMO space, most of them seem to sell a lot of boxes.

[Ratman_tf]

2) Expansions, how the hell will they successfully do expansions to this game?

This is something I have been sort of wondering about myself.  Do they have all their VAs on extended contracts so that no one can back out in three years?  What happens if someone gets hit by a bus?  

The same thing that happens if someone gets hit by a bus before Mass Effect 3 is finished I guess, or the same thing that would happen if Daniel Radcliffe had been hit by a bus somewhere between Harry Potter's 1 and 8.

Or if the guy who plays Dumbledore croaks?

[Amaron]

So Penny Arcade sort of seals the deal on SW:TOR giving WoW at least a very hard kick in the nuts.   What I'm more confused about at this point is there's nothing really coming out in the media about Blizzard's plans.  In the past they've always been fairly competent at pulling something out of their pocket to at least steal some spotlight back.   This time it's like they don't even think anything is going to happen.

Then again, thats not particularly unique in the MMO space, most of them seem to sell a lot of boxes.

A lot of them have really poor pull in the start of the game though. DIKU has always had a huge problem with "the game doesn't even start till you're max level".    With SW:TOR if the single player just sort of floats you to max level without you even noticing it then that's a large advantage.   At max level you have a lot of investment in your character and the community.

[caladein]

I assume you're ignoring the boss-on-the-box raid patch for Cataclysm, Diablo III, and Starcraft II: The Zergening.

[luckton]

So Penny Arcade sort of seals the deal on SW:TOR giving WoW at least a very hard kick in the nuts.   What I'm more confused about at this point is there's nothing really coming out in the media about Blizzard's plans.  In the past they've always been fairly competent at pulling something out of their pocket to at least steal some spotlight back.   This time it's like they don't even think anything is going to happen.

Which is probably one reason why BW's been keeping their release date so close to the chest.  Just look at how Rift and WoW have been arming up their content patches this month.  ActiBliz is afraid...they probably have a weapon ready, but without a date to compete with, they're having trouble setting up their own time-tables.

[Fabricated]

I assume you're ignoring the boss-on-the-box raid patch for Cataclysm, Diablo III, and Starcraft II: The Zergening.

It took them like 6 months and change to get to the SECOND tier of raiding in Cataclysm. Well wait, Firelands isn't even out yet. So possibly 7 months! Unless they turn around and drop the Deathwing raid in another 5-6 months (meaning the expansion is pretty much over) they've got nothing WoW-wise to counter-release. I don't think SC2 scratches the same itch as SWTOR. D3? Maybe.

As for SWTOR, the graphics look fine to me. Stylized, like WoW which holds up pretty well today if you ask me (and it holds up better than EQ2/etc ever did).

I'm officially in. Launch is going to be a hilarious clusterfuck but I'm kinda used to that at this point.

[luckton]

I'll go out on a limb and say that within 72 hours of TOR's release date being revealed, Project Titan will be unveiled as well.   

[Fabricated]

I'll go out on a limb and say that within 72 hours of TOR's release date being revealed, Project Titan will be unveiled as well.   

I don't know if a non-product will somehow hurt SWTOR's sub numbers. It's Blizzard; people will be like, "Man that's gonna be fucking awesome when it comes out like 5 years from now!" and play whatever else in the meanwhile.

[Fordel]

We'll all be to busy romancing Bastila 2.0 to care.

[Amaron]

I assume you're ignoring the boss-on-the-box raid patch for Cataclysm, Diablo III, and Starcraft II: The Zergening.

By "plan's" I meant "stuff that will come out in time to protect our nuts from SW:TOR".    Boss patch as usual isn't really a plan.

[Rasix]

Other two games don't even compete in the same space for me. And yah, WoW has a lot of convincing to do in order get me to come back this time.  I don't raid and you're going to compete with my Star-Wars-Shep? HAH.

[Malakili]

I'll go out on a limb and say that within 72 hours of TOR's release date being revealed, Project Titan will be unveiled as well.   

Is everyone forgetting they haven't announced Diablo 3 release yet.  Blizzard holds the biggest card this year in their hands, they just haven't played it yet. 

[caladein]

Well, that's sort of locked into early the first half of 2012 unless they're willing to step on another big Activision release to get a spot closer to the holidays.  Maybe squeeze it in between SC2's expansion and MW3?

[Lantyssa]

Beta would be sufficient to steal some thunder.

[Sjofn]

My plan for endgame is just to roll an alt.

Ayep.

[Amaron]

Beta would be sufficient to steal some thunder.

A D3 beta would have to be quite limited though.  Plus phat lewts farming is sort of no fun looking down the barrel of a beta wipe.   I'm thinking maybe Blizz/Activision just has their pants down.  They shifted too many people to Titan and EA has surprised them with the earlier release.  

[Rasix]

My plan for endgame is just to roll an alt.

Ayep.

I'm almost frightened at the amount of hours you will put into this one. I won't be able to gasp at it sufficiently if it's not offered on Steam, however.