The 'Build Me A PC' Thread

[Chimpy]

You can't run bare metal on it though so if you think "hey, once I retire this I am going to putter with virtualization on this box!" a chip with virtualization support ripped out is bad.

[Stormwaltz]

Welp. I'm sure I don't understand the technical stuff, but I do grok buyer's regret from people with informed opinions.

[Trippy]

I don't regret buying my i5-3570K. Those features are not needed for a gaming box.

[Salamok]

Well I don't have a dedicated gaming rig, I have a desktop that I both game and work on and unfortunately for me VM's are a part of the work aspect.  On the flip side I don't really notice a hit on the VM side of things but it does annoy me every single time I dismiss the alert message informing me that my VM's performance will be degraded because it is running in software emulation mode.  I don't overclock so I feel I have gained something I will never use in exchange for a daily warning message reminding me that I have lost something.  Not all of the features are specific to gimped VMs though, some of the other stuff effects overall system performance.

edit -  also it probably makes more sense to have a K series i5 but one of the main reasons people go with an i7 is for the extra cores to dedicate to a vm.

[Trippy]

The i7s don't have extra cores, they have Hyper-Threading.

[Salamok]

The i7s don't have extra cores, they have Hyper-Threading.

Which gives you extra virtual cores and more ways to slice the CPU up.

[Hawkbit]

My dad is trying to buy a mid-range gaming rig (WoW and modern big-budget rpgs).  What are the best 'we build it for you' sites right now?

ibuypower was one at some point, but I don't know how they are now.

[Trippy]

The i7s don't have extra cores, they have Hyper-Threading.

Which gives you extra virtual cores and more ways to slice the CPU up.

Which is horrible horrible for virtualization. Never ever run a container on a Hyper-Threaded core unless you are trying to run things as slowly as possible. Amazon, for example, explicitly turns off HT on all it's EC2 instances to avoid this problem.

[Salamok]

The i7s don't have extra cores, they have Hyper-Threading.

Which gives you extra virtual cores and more ways to slice the CPU up.

Which is horrible horrible for virtualization. Never ever run a container on a Hyper-Threaded core unless you are trying to run things as slowly as possible. Amazon, for example, explicitly turns off HT on all it's EC2 instances to avoid this problem.

This is almost entirely dependent on the hypervisor being used, AWS uses Xen not Hyper-V.  That said I have yet to locate a Microsoft stance on the subject in regards to Hyper-Threading for Hyper-V on 2012r2 but here is what HP has to say on the subject:

The Hyper-V release from Windows Server 2012 (and Windows Server 2012 R2) supports up to 320 logical processors, and fully benefits from Hyper-Threading. The DL980 System Providers 9.1 and later releases take this into account for optimal
settings. In this case, Hyper-Threading should be turned on. Release 9.2 is the minimum required for Windows Server 2012 R2 or Hyper-V R2.

Best Practices When Deploying Microsoft Windows Server on the HP ProLiant DL980

edit - For the purposes of our discussion here though you might be right as I believe we were discussing this in the context af a desktop workstation which wont likely be using Xen or Hyper-V.  Most likely a desktop would be using virtual box, the virtual box I have installed on my desktop is limited to the number of cores the host OS is reporting (unlike Hyper-V which lets you assign cores in excess of what is actually on the host).  In the Virtual Box scenario I would guess Hyper-Threading would be beneficial but I really don't know.

[Stormwaltz]

My PC is a pile of shit, and I'm going to scrap the entire thing because every time I replace one part, the problems move to another piece. Last night it turned into a completely inert, unbootable piece of metal, and after spending $120 on a new PSU today, it stopped working again after a mere 12 hours - whenever the fan in the video card (not even three years old) turns on, it stops sending signal to the monitor for no reason. I literally had to kick the piece of shit across the room to get it to boot again.

Replacing everything but said brand-new Corsair 650W PSU with the following:

ASUS SABERTOOTH Z87 LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i5-4670 Haswell 3.4GHz LGA 1150 84W Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80646I54670
ZALMAN CNPS9900MAX-B 135mm Long life bearing CPU Cooler Blue LED
CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMZ16GX3M2A1600C10
SAPPHIRE 100364L Radeon R9 270X 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Zx soundcard (the old X-Fi seems fine, but no current mobo can fit a PCI-non-E card)
Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver Thermal Compound AS5-3.5G - OEM
LIAN LI PC-9F Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

Mono-CPU combo based on Lantyssa's rig. Cost of parts $1,241.98 from Newegg with tax and 3-day shipping. I have SSDs and 3TB HDs standing by already. Anything I should be aware of before vengefully pulling the trigger on Old Yeller?

[Lantyssa]

I only hope it serves you as well as mine has.

There may be newer, better boards out but then I haven't looked into those since I needed to rebuild.

[KallDrexx]

So, recently my temperature monitor is showing that my Intel i5 3570k processor is maxing out at around 72C while gaming.  Is that high?  With it being 90+ out I usually keep my AC set at around 75-80F. 

Right now it has the stock cooler.  I've been debating if it's worth it to buy either the Corsair 100i closed loop water cooler , the Noctua  NH-U14s, or Noctua NH-D14.

Those air coolers are massive, but they do seem to be compatible with my motherboard (size wise).  However I'm not sure how I feel about a giant brick in the middle of my motherboard, and feel like the water cooler would have the advantage of keeping the middle of the case open and hopefully providing better air flow.

[Trippy]

Yes that sounds very high for a CPU temp. The Noctua have a backplate so the stress on your motherboard is reduced. The main issue with those is if you install it with two fans one of the fans may interfere with memory sticks that have fins on them.

Edit: Oh they updated the designs for the 14s to not block tall DIMMs now so those might work better depending on your motherboard layout.

[Stormwaltz]

There may be newer, better boards out but then I haven't looked into those since I needed to rebuild.

I probably couldn't afford latest and greatest anyway. I'll take reliability and longevity over bleeding-edge any day. :)

EDIT: I'm mostly concerned with the video card. I chose something I could afford, but while it's obviously newer tech than my old one, it seems a touch less capable. I don't want the new machine to keel over when I try to run my modded Skyrim. Am I just being nervious?

Old: HIS Radeon HD 6950 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.1 x16
New: SAPPHIRE Radeon R9 270X 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16

[Trippy]

ASUS SABERTOOTH Z87 LGA 1150 Intel Z87 HDMI SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core i5-4670 Haswell 3.4GHz LGA 1150 84W Desktop Processor Intel HD Graphics BX80646I54670
ZALMAN CNPS9900MAX-B 135mm Long life bearing CPU Cooler Blue LED
CORSAIR Vengeance 16GB (2 x 8GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model CMZ16GX3M2A1600C10
SAPPHIRE 100364L Radeon R9 270X 2GB 256-Bit GDDR5 PCI Express 3.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card
Creative Labs Sound Blaster Zx soundcard (the old X-Fi seems fine, but no current mobo can fit a PCI-non-E card)
Arctic Silver 5 High-Density Polysynthetic Silver Thermal Compound AS5-3.5G - OEM
LIAN LI PC-9F Black Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case

That CPU cooler seems like a pain to install. You should also check the clearance to the memory on that cooler to make sure your tall(er) memory (cause of the fins) will fit underneath. The cooler also comes with its own thermal compound in case you want to save a few bucks.

Is there some particular feature of the Sound Blaster card you need? If you need something better than your typical on-board audio solution ASUS has the Republic of Gamer boards which have upgraded audio. They are also usually cheaper than the Sabertooth boards.

[Stormwaltz]

That CPU cooler seems like a pain to install. You should also check the clearance to the memory on that cooler to make sure your tall(er) memory (cause of the fins) will fit underneath.

Without having all the pieces in front of me I'm not sure how I could check the size. But I'm not confident at installation, so I guess I should keep looking. I'm afraid my selection was based on searching Newegg by socket type, sorting by "Best Rating" and selecting something from a company that had served me well in the past.

Do you have any suggestions?

EDIT: Actually, though that fan came up on a compatibility search before, it doesn't actually seem to be. I guess LGA 1150 is a bit unusual these days? There are only four choices on Newegg, all of which rate about the same (4/5 stars with around 7 votes each) - one each from Titan, EVGA, Dynatron, and Silverstone.

Pfft, I'm a big fat idiot. I'll just get what Lantyssa got for that too. It clearly works!

Is there some particular feature of the Sound Blaster card you need?

No, I'm just an audiophile. I like the results I get from my old SB X-Fi, but it won't fit in a modern mobo.

[MisterNoisy]

Pfft, I'm a big fat idiot. I'll just get what Lantyssa got for that too. It clearly works!

The Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO is pretty much identical in terms of design/performance (though it comes with a better fan, imo) and a bit easier to mount.  Get whichever is cheaper at the time of purchase.  

[Lantyssa]

It'd be totally worth it for that quick mount.  Getting the fan on is the only thing I hate about this style of cooler, because you have to do it after mounting the tower.

[Engels]

Anyone own a Fractal Design R4 or an Antec P100? If so, do you have any impressions?

[Trippy]

Anyone own a Fractal Design R4 or an Antec P100? If so, do you have any impressions?

No but I have a Fractal Design Arc and an Antec P183, does that help?

[Engels]

Well, it might in terms of what you thought of the Fractal Design one. I have not owned anything by them, and I'm wondering about build quality and smart design choices, and conversely, forehead smackers.

I have owned an Antec before, so I know that their stuff is generally good quality.  However, I know that design flaws can lurk in specific models, so that's why I wanted to know about the P100. It seems to be a 'too good to be true' case, so I wanted someone that's played with it or owns one.

[Trippy]

I have the older Arc Mini. I was specifically looking for a Mini-ATX case with decent internal drive capacity and not too small so it would be easy to put together*. The only thing I don't like about it is the top panel power button and ports are a bit fiddly given the way I have it buried under my desk. It's hard to see what's on the panel cause it's dark under the desk and the power button is flush against the top and a non-distinct shape so I basically just poke at roughly the middle of the panel until I find the button and hitting the reset button is basically impossible without a flashlight and some spelunking**. Plugging things into the USB ports takes some trial and error too. The Design R4's top panel looks a little bit nicer than the Arc Mini's and if you have it placed in a less buried position that's probably not going to be an issue. The interior of the case is fine -- it's like one of the higher-end Antecs -- some nice features but nothing too fancy. I would definitely consider getting another Fractal Design case depending on my needs at that time.

* I originally tried the SilverStone TJ08B-E but that was really hard for me to work inside so I got the Arc Mini to replace it.

** Fortunately the box is very stable so I never need to use the reset button

[Engels]

Thank you, that is a good endorsement, especially since I will not be putting it under a desk.

[Chimpy]

One of the guys in the local custom PC shops here in town (which closed recently, no more buy weird cable X from a store last minute for me anymore :( ) had nothing but praise for the Fractal Design stuff. I seriously looked at getting one but I got a deal on the updated version of my current CoolerMaster case which I like a lot for when I eventually build a new machine.

[Stormwaltz]

The Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO is pretty much identical in terms of design/performance (though it comes with a better fan, imo) and a bit easier to mount.  Get whichever is cheaper at the time of purchase.

I wish I'd seen this before I placed the order. :P

All the parts are here now. It's been about a decade since I put together a PC myself, so this should be... interesting. I am glad I splurged on the new Lian Li case - it's even more easily accessible than my current one, came with a mounting bracket for an SSD, piles of easy access screws, stick-back cable clamps, and quick ties. I don't think I need anything save a screwdriver.

The metal is noticeably thinner than my current case, but it did cost half as much.

EDIT: Of course, shortly after posting this, I noticed out one of the plastic clamps for the front panel is broken. Debating if it's worth sending back.

[MisterNoisy]

The Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO is pretty much identical in terms of design/performance (though it comes with a better fan, imo) and a bit easier to mount.  Get whichever is cheaper at the time of purchase.

I wish I'd seen this before I placed the order. :P

All the parts are here now. It's been about a decade since I put together a PC myself, so this should be... interesting. I am glad I splurged on the new Lian Li case - it's even more easily accessible than my current one, came with a mounting bracket for an SSD, piles of easy access screws, stick-back cable clamps, and quick ties. I don't think I need anything save a screwdriver.

The metal is noticeably thinner than my current case, but it did cost half as much.

EDIT: Of course, shortly after posting this, I noticed out one of the plastic clamps for the front panel is broken. Debating if it's worth sending back.

Don't sweat the Xigmatek vs Hyper 212 thing - the Gaia is still really easy to mount, and if you want a faster fan, that's a cheap upgrade later - I've got a red LED version of that 600-2K RPM fan that comes with the H212 with about 10 hours max on it you can have for free if you want.  It looks a bit better imo, so given their identical price points, it's a wash.

As for the case thing, I'd probably send it back if Lian Li wasn't willing to send me a replacement bezel (it's worth a shot to contact them about a replacement), but I'm anal like that.  That and I really like the NZXT H440 in that price class and the H620 in the next class up as well as Fractal's stuff.

[Hoax]

A friend's wife just tasked me with coming up with a cpu+mobo+ram fix for $400 or under (target is $350).

I need to take some more time thinking about how this is going to work with what he has now especially case/cooling wise. But I'm wondering how would you break that budget down to make it work?

My inclination is to scrimp the hell out of the ram bc its easily and cheaply swapped out with something decent by xmas time. So try to spend say $50 or so on a budget'ish 2x2GB setup?

That leaves me $300-350 for a cpu+mobo but that feels tight to me looking things over. Seems like $200 is the cpu sweet spot but I usually go for high'ish end mobo's in my builds and there is no way I can afford that here if I only have $100-150 to spend.

How would you guys handle this budget?

For a starting place using some stuff from the past 5 pages:
ASRock Z87 PRO4 = $130
i5-4570 = $190
cheap 2x2GB ram = $50

TOTAL = $370

Better option(s)? Better plan? Tell them to save their money for now?

[Trippy]

What are they using it for? With that budget I'd for for an i3.

[Hoax]

Its for gaming. Things like: BL2 (3 if that moon stuff doesn't suck), Assassin's CreedX, Witcher3, Other SP AAA fps/rpg titles, Various MMO's, etc.

Are people still liking dual-core setups in 2014? I honestly had not even considered it.

[Chimpy]

If it is for gaming and you are not putting in a discrete GPU, you might look seriously at an AMD processor. The on board GPU on the AMDs are much better than the intel ones and the chips cost considerably less.

If you are going with a discrete GPU an i3 as Trippy mentioned is a better bet.

[Hoax]

His wife is trying to get him back up and running for his birthday as cheaply as possible basically. But I told her that it was silly to try to keep replacing a part at a time his old machine and that it was better to just get a new core (mobo+cpu+ram) then let him upgrade piece by piece around that.

That's how I ended up here. So yeah I've got an older pcie gpu to work with and everything else. Discrete GPU all the way.

I still need help understanding why I wouldn't put max money into the cpu here and go with say the i5-4590 @ $200? Sure I'm stuck with a more budget board if I go the i5 route but beyond giving up a couple of USB3.0 and eSATA so what? Its a single GPU user with no need for RAID anything.

For example I look at:

http://www.asrock.com/mb/compare.asp?SelectedModel=Z87+Extreme4&SelectedModel=Z87+Pro3

Comparing the Z87 Extreme4 to the Z87 Pro3 ($145 vs $105) and I just don't see how the i3 with the better mobo makes more sense. Now maybe people don't like my temporary 2x2GB ram slated for replacement ASAP plan and certainly with the i3 I could skip that and put another $50 into ram to get twice as much and better quality.

tl;dr: is the tradeoff of $85 into cpu instead of into mobo and ram really a no brainer to put it into mobo and ram at these price points?

[MisterNoisy]

If you're not buying a K processor or going to SLI/Crossfire, you can probably get the motherboard down to $80-100 by going with a H87/H97 chipset instead of Z87/Z97.

[Hoax]

I'm favoring the ASRock Z87 Extreme3 which can be had for $110 on sale this weekend from Newegg.

My other candidates for 1150 mobo so far:

$105         Asus H87-PLUS

$120      GIGABYTE GA-Z87X-HD3  (has a $20 MIR)

$113      ASRock Z97 Pro4

Its hard when you don't need SLI or OC capabilities because that's pretty much the criteria of every review out there.




On the memory side of things I'm leaning heavily due to brand loyalty towards this Corsair Vengeance matched 2x4GB setup. Offered at $75 on Newegg.

I can't do much better than that from brands I trust I think $72 was the lowest price I saw.

Then its just a question of spending $300 or $400 total after adding in an i3 (4130 for $118) or i5 (4590? for $200) to the mix. I think my main problem is the i5 maxes out the budget but I haven't built something with a stock cooler in I don't know how many years. So I'm thinking of telling him to buy himself a cooler in secret so I can complete the wife's birthday present while still staying on budget.

[Chimpy]

You will get more bang for your buck from going with 8GB of RAM rather than 2 extra processor cores as the vast majority of applications are still mainly single threaded. Sure, more cores are better, but the price premium is usually not worth it when you are on a tight budget. It is why the i5 is so popular over the i7. Hyperthreading and bigger caches are cool and all, but they are not going to give the majority of applications an equal amount of boost versus price.

[Trippy]

Memory is easier to upgrade though compared to the CPU.