Chris Roberts Back in your wallet - STAR CITIZEN

[Samprimary]

I'm still now just sort of wishing we got to see what someone who is not chris roberts could have done by now with the hundred mil. I'm still conspicuously jonesing for The Definitive Next Generation Space Sim and I guess I'm stuck in a timeline where we won't get it.

[Jeff Kelly]

Programming is still hard. It also has suffered a lot because the business is now so art and design driven. Just look at staff lists or credits of any AAA title and chances are good that the ratio of content and asset creators to 'actual' system programmers heavily favors content creation.

You can also see it if you look at tool chains and their focus to make asset creation easier and faster for art people. A competent designer that knows Maya or Poser or any other modelling workflow can whip up something decent quickly. If that person doesn't need to be concerned about poly count, how well it animates, if graphics hardware can render it or indeed any facet of the design that has to consider real world technical limitations. That's what the system programming team is for, they have to make it work. The big promise of the current generation of frameworks is that you do not need to do much programming to make a game (except for scripting) and this is because their customer base is design and art focused.

There are reasons why so many recent games have been poorly optimized heaps of junk and some of them have to do with the business being so focused on art and assets and being driven by design and less resources being dedicated to making sure all of the beautiful art is actually coming together into a consistent game that can run on actual hardware.

Another reason would be the fact that you can earn much more money as a systems programmer in any other business besides gaming and so you have a lot of brain drain once junior programmers get burned out or decide to start a family and realize that they could earn significantly more money on a significantly lower workload in almost any other business.

[Jeff Kelly]

I think that the main issue of Star Citizen is lack of oversight and lack of a strong creative vision. It's the wet dream of every creative person I know to be free of the shackles of creative oversight and budgets and to be able to create something without being constrained by deadlines or money or the opinions of other people that ultimately pay your bills. It's also the responsibility of management and the art director to make sure that the project stays on track and on vision.

If they don't you have a nightmare scenario. Ultimately a lot of the work you do even on creative projects is boring but necessary and there's always something more interesting to do instead.

[Samprimary]

Another reason would be the fact that you can earn much more money as a systems programmer in any other business besides gaming and so you have a lot of brain drain once junior programmers get burned out or decide to start a family and realize that they could earn significantly more money on a significantly lower workload in almost any other business.

Yeah they all go "hmm do i want to stay in the games industry? On one hand, I'll be subject to burnout-inducing crunch time, extreme market volatility, and uncertainty at all times about whether my studio will be up and running in a year will prevent me from being able to settle down someplace for real. But at the same time, I have to remember I'll get paid less. So there's that! Gotta keep the pros and cons in perspective."

[IainC]

You can also see it if you look at tool chains and their focus to make asset creation easier and faster for art people. A competent designer that knows Maya or Poser or any other modelling workflow can whip up something decent quickly. If that person doesn't need to be concerned about poly count, how well it animates, if graphics hardware can render it or indeed any facet of the design that has to consider real world technical limitations. That's what the system programming team is for, they have to make it work. The big promise of the current generation of frameworks is that you do not need to do much programming to make a game (except for scripting) and this is because their customer base is design and art focused.

This is 100% correct. I recall being given a UE4 demo at E3 a few years ago and the technical artist who was running the demo had a pitch that was basically 'You can fire all of your programmers. Technical artists can now do everything in the engine that they need to make a game.'

[tmp]

I think that the main issue of Star Citizen is lack of oversight and lack of a strong creative vision. It's the wet dream of every creative person I know to be free of the shackles of creative oversight and budgets and to be able to create something without being constrained by deadlines or money or the opinions of other people that ultimately pay your bills. It's also the responsibility of management and the art director to make sure that the project stays on track and on vision.

So basically, Valve Syndrome.

[Samprimary]

valve can syndrome themselves all they want on the steady hat revenue or whatever. it'd be different if they were making a new team fortress and selling individual classes for thousands of dollars.

[Malakili]

Yeah, Valve is pretty much a unique case.

[HaemishM]

You can also see it if you look at tool chains and their focus to make asset creation easier and faster for art people. A competent designer that knows Maya or Poser or any other modelling workflow can whip up something decent quickly. If that person doesn't need to be concerned about poly count, how well it animates, if graphics hardware can render it or indeed any facet of the design that has to consider real world technical limitations. That's what the system programming team is for, they have to make it work. The big promise of the current generation of frameworks is that you do not need to do much programming to make a game (except for scripting) and this is because their customer base is design and art focused.

This is 100% correct. I recall being given a UE4 demo at E3 a few years ago and the technical artist who was running the demo had a pitch that was basically 'You can fire all of your programmers. Technical artists can now do everything in the engine that they need to make a game.'

I really hope you or someone around you dickpunched the cockholster that said this to you.

[KallDrexx]

valve can syndrome themselves all they want on the steady hat revenue or whatever. it'd be different if they were making a new team fortress and selling individual classes for thousands of dollars.

I mean, Star Citizen can syndrome themselves all they want too since their preorder shinanigans seems to be giving them staggeringly stable revenue (sadly enough).  I just looked it up and they are still taking in about $2-3million per month. 

[Samprimary]

I don't think they have the same long-term stability. As time goes on, people's attitude towards star citizen is souring and then morphing into full-blown hatetrains like Something Awful's. They can't sit around and noodle away indefinitely like Valve, and the longer goes on without a functional and complete product, the more they court imploding and being a 2017 Kotaku-Hogan "what went wrong with star citizen: the greatest crowdfunding disaster" article.

[Jeff Kelly]

Valve has steam which is a legitimate business that works and generates revenue. They don't necessarily need to make Half Life 3 or any other game.

[angry.bob]

Valve has steam which is a legitimate business that works and generates revenue. They don't necessarily need to make Half Life 3 or any other game.

But they probably will anyway. And it will probably be another excellent game that embraces modding and has legs for a decade. People can criticize Valve all they want, but shitty, rushed, or unfun games are not any criticisms that are valid.

[Malakili]

TF2, despite being incredibly well liked and hugely popular seems to me to be, if anything, underappreciated in the gaming community. Looking back, Orange Box was probably the best gaming purchase I've ever made, and Portal was just sort of tacked on as this extra interesting thing in there.

[tmp]

Yeah, Valve is pretty much a unique case.

It's unique in the sense they actually have money hats that allow them to fuck around without producing anything, and still survive. They are not unique in the sense this total artistic freedom and lack of management capable of giving a fuck about actually producing something results in dicking around but little of note, software-wise.

[Margalis]

Valve is basically a storefront management company now, that does some hardware and software stuff on the side.

To say that they don't produce much any more is true, but it's also not really their business, and hasn't been for some time.

[Kageru]

People tend to forget that Valve is not actually that large a company, probably not that much bigger than RSI based on some quick googling, and financially I doubt their positions could be much more different.

Valve are not going to release half life 3 because there is more money and interest in online games..

[Samprimary]

Valve also has the luxury of not being compelled to puke out ietetations to keep the lights on. They can make what they want when they feel good and ready.

[Falconeer]

Tell me if this, from 1:20, isn't all that Star Citizen is trying pretending to be (it isn't, it's the new Call of Duty).

[Malakili]

I don't think Call of Duty has a sim bartender feature, so it's pretty much a waste of everyone's time.

[schild]

It has been repeatedly said that all of the employees at Valve get to work on passion products and that's that. So Half-Life 3 will get done when: 1. A team wants to work on Half-Life 3 and 2. When a team capable of making Half-Life 3 gets together and just does it.

Star Citizen isn't a passion product. It's a con. These two companies should never be mentioned in the same thread.

[HaemishM]

Tell me if this, from 1:20, isn't all that Star Citizen is trying pretending to be (it isn't, it's the new Call of Duty).

I'm pretty sure Chris Roberts wouldn't waste his hooker money on some shitty nuMetal travesty cover of an iconic David Bowie song, so no. 

[Spiff]

He'd probably launch a campaign to hire the best psychic medium money can buy.
Bowie performing live from beyond the grave, donate now!

[Furiously]

[Samprimary]

is this out yet did it fail yet does it suck is there a first round of layoffs what's happening

[Merusk]

You guys either scared the true believers off or they've mortgaged themselves so much they can't pay for internet anymore. No idea!

[Nija]

We've entered the silent denial stage.

[tmp]

Clearly there's no info because the game launched and everyone is too busy playing it and having too much fun to post.

[Lucas]

[Sir T]

Well someone had to make the effort of typing the name into google

Star Citizen" crowdfunding already reached more than $110 million. There are already 1.3 million people who invested for the "Star Citizen" PC version with over 300,000 new recruits.

The crowdfunding first started in October 2012 and right after launching of its kickstarter, the fund grew and reached its target of $540,000. Since then, the population of pledgers continued to increase as well as the fund itself, making it the most successful crowdfunding of all time, PC invasion reported.
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The report mentioned that Cloud Imperium, developer of the said game, have used all of its development bases in the United States, United Kingdom and Germany for "Star Citizen." Cloud Imperium CEO Chris Roberts explained in his interview with BBC that although the continuous cash flow indicates a positive feedback from supporters, the total amount of money they are collecting from the crowdfunding is still uncertain, which makes it one of its pitfalls. He also assured that he has no intentions of pocketing the money because Cloud Imperium intends to create the best game possible.

Roberts also mentioned that despite the enormous amount of money received right now, there are still times games get cancelled and "pushed back." He further explained that it takes years for a game to be fully developed, and by the time the general public hears about a game, it is most likely been in development for quite some time already. Despite the large amount of money from the crowdfunding, Roberts also explained that this poses another difficulty because pledgers are given the opportunity to demand something for the game, and a variety of these is not healthy. He explained that a million game designers, despite their support, would mean each and every voice has a right to be heard.

As of the moment, there has still been no word yet coming from Cloud Imperium regarding the schedule of "Star Citizen" PC version release date. Previously, "Star Citizen" alpha version 2.2.2 was released for free last March 2016 with a few patches also released earlier this year.

Read more: http://en.yibada.com/articles/125497/20160522/star-citizen-pc-release-date-crowdfunding-reaches-more-110-million.htm#ixzz49cEuCPuN

[Malakili]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTL4CBHTbvI

Spoiler: It's terrible. The video is worth watching (second half better than first) for comedy value

[HaemishM]

Holy shit, just the number of times dude's clipped through the ship was just LOLWORTHY.

[Margalis]

This video illustrates the problem of designing final environments before you have any systems working. FPS levels can go through hundreds of iterations to get just right.

The interior is a dimly-lit maze. And not in a fun Doom way either. It's all awkward corridors and weird angles. Buggy as shit, but even if it worked I'm not sure it would be any good.

The release of Overwatch underscores how pointless it's been to spend so much time and effort on the crappy FPS part of Star Citizen. Instead of offering something no other game offers they've spend tremendous resources on garbage that dozens of games do better.

[tmp]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTL4CBHTbvI

Spoiler: It's terrible. The video is worth watching (second half better than first) for comedy value

Half of these dudes running around looking like they're pretending to hold invisible guns is so apt for this game

[K9]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTL4CBHTbvI

Spoiler: It's terrible. The video is worth watching (second half better than first) for comedy value

Is the streamer roleplaying as Han Solo?