The 'Build Me A PC' Thread

[MahrinSkel]

There used to be some good options for internet for RV's, I spent a year living in an RV using Clear WiMax to stream Hulu and Netflix. But Clear was sold to Sprint and Millenicom to Verizon, and now you're stuck with either paying through the nose for data from the cellular carriers, or finding WiFi (and urban RV camp slots tend to run the same as a hotel). Some people have hybrid satellite/cellular setups (satellite for bulk download, cellular for upload and fast two-way), but it ain't cheap.

--Dave

[Trippy]

What do you guys think of running 2 SSD's in Raid 0?

It's a good way to lose all your data How old is the motherboard? What chipset is it using? Your South Bridge/SATA controller may be a bottleneck.

[Chimpy]

RAID 0 is a recipe for disaster in pretty much all cases.

[Jimbo]

Current build:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($241.98 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($75.69 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI Z97-GAMING 5 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($138.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($81.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($226.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital VelociRaptor 500GB 3.5" 10000RPM Internal Hard Drive
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card
Case: Antec Twelve Hundred ATX Full Tower Case  (Purchased For $0.00)
Power Supply: PC Power & Cooling Silencer Mk II 750W 80+ Silver Certified ATX Power Supply  (Purchased For $0.00)
Optical Drive: LG WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer  (Purchased For $0.00)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 OEM (64-bit)  (Purchased For $0.00)
Other: USB 3.0 Interface, Plug & Play, 3.5" or 5.25" Multi I/O Front Panel with USB 3.0 3-port Hub & 6-slot ($25.99)
Total: $791.61
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-11-11 23:34 EST-0500

Will be switching to Windows 10 Professional, switching hard drive to this WD Black WD4003FZEX 4TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive, & putting the SSD's in there mounts as they were just sitting in the 3.5 drive bay, oh the monitor is this one from Samsung. I'm not doing it yet, just wondering what you all thought, better to get a new bigger drive or get the same and use it in RAID? My son and I were planning on installing the Window 10 Pro 64, hard drive, mounting the SSD, and making it look a bit prettier if possible over Thanksgiving week (his buddies will be home on break too, so we get together and cook and geek out).

Thanks again guys and gals!

[MisterNoisy]

Current build:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($241.98 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($75.69 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI Z97-GAMING 5 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($138.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($81.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 850 Pro Series 512GB 2.5" Solid State Drive  ($226.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital VelociRaptor 500GB 3.5" 10000RPM Internal Hard Drive
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 970 4GB Twin Frozr V Video Card
Case: Antec Twelve Hundred ATX Full Tower Case  (Purchased For $0.00)
Power Supply: PC Power & Cooling Silencer Mk II 750W 80+ Silver Certified ATX Power Supply  (Purchased For $0.00)
Optical Drive: LG WH16NS40 Blu-Ray/DVD/CD Writer  (Purchased For $0.00)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 OEM (64-bit)  (Purchased For $0.00)
Other: USB 3.0 Interface, Plug & Play, 3.5" or 5.25" Multi I/O Front Panel with USB 3.0 3-port Hub & 6-slot ($25.99)
Total: $791.61
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-11-11 23:34 EST-0500

Will be switching to Windows 10 Professional, switching hard drive to this WD Black WD4003FZEX 4TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive, & putting the SSD's in there mounts as they were just sitting in the 3.5 drive bay, oh the monitor is this one from Samsung. I'm not doing it yet, just wondering what you all thought, better to get a new bigger drive or get the same and use it in RAID? My son and I were planning on installing the Window 10 Pro 64, hard drive, mounting the SSD, and making it look a bit prettier if possible over Thanksgiving week (his buddies will be home on break too, so we get together and cook and geek out).

Thanks again guys and gals!

I don't know if I'd RAID the drives.  Maybe just get a smaller SSD for the OS and applications, move your games to your existing 500GB unit and add the 4TB drive, which is what I did last time around - smaller 'premium' SSD for OS and productivity, bigger cheaper SSD for Steam/games and a cheap spinner for bulk storage.

[Trippy]

Moved Soln's router subthread to the Quick Tech Questions thread:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=14149.msg1393368#msg1393368

[Ragnoros]

Looking to upgrade my seven year old Core2Duo Q6600 PC to a Skylake i3-6100, as it looks fast enough to not bottleneck my R290 and moving up to the newest 1151 socket should future proof me a bit when it's time to upgrade again.

Eurogamer http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2015-intel-core-i3-6100-review indicated the i3-6100 benefits from faster DDR4 rather well.

I'm on a tight budget, otherwise I would just buy an i7 and be done with it.

My questions are how fast of DDR4 should I bother getting? Also what are the features and price point I should look for in a mothboard? I realize I don't need a $250 mobo given I'm not running SLI, overclocking heavily, or plugging in a dozen SSDs, but at the same time, I would like to have the option for a higher bandwidth SSD in the future and a bit of future proof, that I'm worried a $60 model won't offer. The 30 various options from each vendor don't really seem to differentiate themselves well.

[Chimpy]

Why not an i5? For most purposes an i7 is overkill but an i5 gives you quite a bit over an i3.

[Ragnoros]

I'm trying to stick to a $300ish budget for CPU + RAM + MB and from what I can tell the i3 should be enough to not bottleneck my R290 (the main reason for the upgrade) while also being $120 vs ~200 for an i5. Also a low end skylake lets me get a MB with the newest 1151 socket and theoretically be enough future proof to let me upgrade to a faster CPU in the future without upgrading the MB again.

Basically, while the i5 is faster than the i3, if the i3 can keep up with my video card, what does the i5 gain me, beyond bragging rights?

As as to my original post, basically, I want to be lazy on the research and have someone else tell me what MB+RAM is the best value/money when it comes to price vs features around my budget and target build, and none of the various sources on the web has given me an opinion I like enough.

Using http://www.techspot.com/review/1089-fallout-4-benchmarks/ as my guide to how much of a CPU I need to keep up with my R290.

[Lantyssa]

The i5 just performs better even if they look fairly analogous.  It's worth spending the little extra since it's the heart of your computer.

[Chimpy]

The i5 just performs better even if they look fairly analogous.  It's worth spending the little extra since it's the heart of your computer.

Though you could "save" money buying an i3 then when you have cash later buy the whole i5 unlock code from Intel.

[Viin]

What? Is that a thing? (assuming that's green, but just in case, thought I'd ask!)

[Chimpy]

What? Is that a thing? (assuming that's green, but just in case, thought I'd ask!)

Apparently they don't do it anymore. Intel Upgrade Service

[Zetor]

It's time to spend company money on my PC again. I did get a new video card and some more RAM + an SSD recently, but otherwise this is like... caveman-era stuff, especially the CPU/mb (I just copy/pasted my 2012 post for the most part ). Halp!

mb: Gigabyte GA-880GM-UD2H
cpu: AMD Phenom II X4 945 3GHz
ram: 8GB Kingston DDR3 1333MHz
vidcard: GeForce GTX 660 Ti
psu: Chieftec CFT-650-14CS 650W
HDs: 250GB SSD, 1TB 7200RPM HD x2
Monitor: don't have the specs offhand, but it's a 22" 2ms latency Samsung LCD

I typically run stuff at 1680x1050 in win10. I'm not looking for a bleeding-edge rig, just something that doesn't choke when playing modern AAA games (and apparently SWTOR). My budget is around $750, maybe up to $800ish.

(Unfortunately Newegg and similar sites aren't an option here in thirdworldia, thx stupid Hungarian import / customs fees. However, I think prices are roughly the same over here for most things.)

[Hoax]

I was just doing some pricing myself and here are the ballparks I saw:
-skylake i5 6600 3.3ghz looked the sweet spot at $225
-there were various decent 2x8gb sets of DDR4 ram w decentish timing for $125
-the latest noctua cooler is like $100

So there is $450 off the bat that I think you want to spend probably. Next throw in a power supply that I've heard of and use the rest of the budget on the mobo that does what you want / is in your fav colors / is from the brand you trust and we're getting to the budget esp if we need a new case or fans or whatever.

That's assuming you are cannabilizing the current machine for storage, gpu etc.

[Zetor]

I was just doing some pricing myself and here are the ballparks I saw:
-skylake i5 6600 3.3ghz looked the sweet spot at $225
-there were various decent 2x8gb sets of DDR4 ram w decentish timing for $125
-the latest noctua cooler is like $100

So there is $450 off the bat that I think you want to spend probably. Next throw in a power supply that I've heard of and use the rest of the budget on the mobo that does what you want / is in your fav colors / is from the brand you trust and we're getting to the budget esp if we need a new case or fans or whatever.

That's assuming you are cannabilizing the current machine for storage, gpu etc.

Word. I've been looking at something similar: an i5 6600 (not the K version), a Gigabyte B150M-D3H MB (brand loyalty!), and 2x8 gigs of 2.4 (or maybe just 2.1, doesn't seem to be a huge diff) DDR4 RAM. Do you still need an extra cooler for the non-overclocked version of the 6600, though, in addition to what's in the box? I'm buying the boxed version because it's on a decent-ish discount... thx cyber monday!

edit: oh yeah, before I forget... I am fairly sure the win7 version I upgraded from was a 'system builder' (OEM) edition... which probably means I'm fucked license-wise. Oh well.

[Hawkbit]

Computer purchase help, please!

I build my gaming desktop systems every 3-4 years, so I know the value of what can be pieced together. However, my wife and kid need new systems and I'm at a loss.

Problems:
1. Small work spaces, so we want to stick with notebooks or compact iMac-like desktops.
2. Need to buy two systems for very different uses.
3. Wasted time on troubleshooting problems that have to do with crappy software/hardware.
4. Cost vs value.

They're currently sharing a 3 year old Lenovo that cost around $800, but it's a pile of crap running Win10 very slowly. I can't blast the thing to see if the problems are related to OS or some hardware failure because neither of them can afford to be without a system while I work on it. So it's time to upgrade in the next few months.

Potential solutions:
1. For my wife's computer, I'm thinking of going Macbook Air with the best specs. She uses it for blogging, web surfing, paying bills, VPN for work and viewing photos. We'll have to work out external storage solutions for her photos. The config price is around $1500, which is fine as long as I don't have to spend a lot of time dealing with all the daily problems that the current system has. For her use, I don't see a need to jump up to the Pro. Any thoughts on this as a solution?

2. For my kid's computer, I'm stuck. She has a small desk in her room, so I was leaning towards an iMac. Uses: Minecraft, Sims4, Telltale games, indie games, web surfing, Netflix, video recording, video editing.  However, only the 5k systems have a decent video card to play games and those configs are pricing at $2500+! Are there any decent Win10 systems that "just work" like a Mac, and will I get the same longevity out of them that I would a decent Mac for her?

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm not sure I can justify the kid computer expense to my wife, even though the kid deserves a good computer. Honestly, though the biggest factor is just freeing up my time by not having to deal with shitty quality systems.

[MisterNoisy]

Computer purchase help, please!

I build my gaming desktop systems every 3-4 years, so I know the value of what can be pieced together. However, my wife and kid need new systems and I'm at a loss.

Problems:
1. Small work spaces, so we want to stick with notebooks or compact iMac-like desktops.
2. Need to buy two systems for very different uses.
3. Wasted time on troubleshooting problems that have to do with crappy software/hardware.
4. Cost vs value.

They're currently sharing a 3 year old Lenovo that cost around $800, but it's a pile of crap running Win10 very slowly. I can't blast the thing to see if the problems are related to OS or some hardware failure because neither of them can afford to be without a system while I work on it. So it's time to upgrade in the next few months.

Potential solutions:
1. For my wife's computer, I'm thinking of going Macbook Air with the best specs. She uses it for blogging, web surfing, paying bills, VPN for work and viewing photos. We'll have to work out external storage solutions for her photos. The config price is around $1500, which is fine as long as I don't have to spend a lot of time dealing with all the daily problems that the current system has. For her use, I don't see a need to jump up to the Pro. Any thoughts on this as a solution?

2. For my kid's computer, I'm stuck. She has a small desk in her room, so I was leaning towards an iMac. Uses: Minecraft, Sims4, Telltale games, indie games, web surfing, Netflix, video recording, video editing.  However, only the 5k systems have a decent video card to play games and those configs are pricing at $2500+! Are there any decent Win10 systems that "just work" like a Mac, and will I get the same longevity out of them that I would a decent Mac for her?

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm not sure I can justify the kid computer expense to my wife, even though the kid deserves a good computer. Honestly, though the biggest factor is just freeing up my time by not having to deal with shitty quality systems.

Can't really help with the notebook, but you could put together a solid compact mid-budget gaming rig for under a grand and then just add a monitor if you don't already have one laying around.

Maybe something like this?

The case is a bit big for mITX, but that lets you use a cheap 120mm cooler to keep things quieter and makes it easier to put together.  Replace the R9 380 with a GTX960 (they're priced right on top of each other) if you're a team green kinda guy, and if you need more storage, add a WD Blue or Black spinner for $50 or so.

[Trippy]

Does your wife need the portability of the MacBook Air? How big is the current Lenovo? I have no idea if there are Windows 10 laptops that "just work" but in terms of value for the daughter you can get her something like:

http://www.dell.com/us/p/inspiron-15-7559-laptop/pd?oc=fncwpw5715h&model_id=inspiron-15-7559-laptop

$800 is about as low as you can go for a laptop with a 960m GPU barring some sort of special sale (the above was on sale for Black Friday for $700 for a short while). There's also a 13" Alienware with a 960m from $100 more if you wanted something smaller:

http://www.dell.com/us/p/alienware-13-r2/pd?ref=PD_OC

Alienware also has compact desktop units (either the Alpha or the X51) if you wanted something small that wasn't a laptop and didn't want to build a mini-ITX system yourself.

[MahrinSkel]

The Alienware Alpha is a good option for the nonhardcore games, decent enough for most games. My 7 year old likes hers, they start at $500, and the standardized build and Dell support means you shouldn't have to worry too much about maintaining it.

--Dave

[Lantyssa]

Build a mini- or iTX running VMware and a couple of virtual machines.  Get the family thin terminals and have them RDP into the VMs.  Then you have one machine for everyone.

Don't know how well these would work with games though.  Can't say I've ever tried playing a game over RDP.

[Ironwood]

It's awful.

[Chimpy]

You also need Windows VDA licenses for that! 

(grumble)

[Hawkbit]

Yes, I'm definitely looking to simplify the user requests. :)

After reading suggestions here, I'm going to bump the wife's Mac purchase to a Pro when the new models come out, which is estimated to be sometime before March.

For the kid's computer, I'm leaning towards building a mini-ATX system as recommended here. We can build a seriously powerful Windows computer for half the Mac cost, plus I can walk her through building it herself. I'll likely bother you folks for more advice once I get ready to put together the system on paper. I really appreciate the advice.

Thanks!

[Hoax]

I wanna snap up a Tablet. Under $350 for sure and preferably around $200 I think is where I can get most of what I want hopefully?

I only need wifi. I don't care for 3G/LTE or want to pay for it. Its for boredom alleviation and travel. I'll throw some grindy mobage on it, some music and access netflix. I'm not super screen/sound picky, though a screen that won't easily get damaged/scratched is a plus?

Better cpu/ram is what I'm willing to pay for. Every other bell and whistle is shit. Like a camera. I don't care if it has a camera ffs. I hope I don't need expandable storage? Do I? I guess I do for when I can't get wifi (the horror!) so I can throw a movie or 3 on there or whatever. Pretty sure I need Android because apple is overpriced and windows sucks?

If I'm not getting this Galaxy for $180 what am I getting?

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00V49LP3C/

That has Android 5.0/5.1? And probably is decent quality but could I spend a few more bucks for a lot more speed or could I save a chunk of cash for something that would give me the same performance? I know nothing of tablets but I need one for some stuff I've got coming up.

[Trippy]

The Tab A has a low resolution screen (1024 x 768). You probably don't want that one.

The NVIDIA k1 might work for you: http://shield.nvidia.com/tablet/k1

[Hoax]

$20 is well within reason, thanks Trippy. I didn't think Resolution would matter that much. I've never gone bigger than my 24" monitor and I run most mobage through bluestacks or whatever at pretty damn low resolutions as is. I guess netflix might be bad at that res but compared to NOT being entertained you just suck it up?

I'll go with the K1 though.

[MahrinSkel]

Latest version of the LG G Pad 8" (LGV 498) is $189, 16gb, 100gbOne Drive free, and pre-installed Windows Office (android version), running Lollipop.

I've been happy with my 10" LGV 700, but if I were buying now, that would be a tough choice to make. People get numbers-blind for screen resolution, after 100 DPI it's all placebo effect.

--Dave

[Trippy]

People get numbers-blind for screen resolution, after 100 DPI it's all placebo effect.

No it's not. The difference in text quality is instantly obvious between, say, a non-retina iPad Mini at 131.96 PPI and a retina iPad Mini at 324.05 PPI at normal viewing distances.

Edit: obvious

[MahrinSkel]

Ever think that might have more to do with contrast levels than pixel density? At a range of three feet, 100 dpi is already well below human visual acuity. Unless you're some kind of mutant, it is literally impossible for you to tell the difference from 132 and 324, all else being equal.

Now, since contrast is in part determined by light bleeding from one pixel to the next, it may be that high DPI gains some benefit there. But it's more likely that the newer retina displays just have better contrast performance to begin with.

--Dage

[Trippy]

Ever think that might have more to do with contrast levels than pixel density? At a range of three feet, 100 dpi is already well below human visual acuity. Unless you're some kind of mutant, it is literally impossible for you to tell the difference from 132 and 324, all else being equal.
--Dage

Nope it's not. That's like claiming it's impossible to see the difference between a good dot-matrix printer (like an ImageWriter) and a 300 dpi laser printer (like a LaserWriter).

Now it is true that back in the day my eyes were trained to spot differences in text resolution and I could easily tell the difference between 300 dpi, 600 dpi and 1200 dpi text output without the add of a loupe but that's cause I literally spent all day proofing fonts at various sizes and resolutions so my eyes may still be more sensitive to these sorts of differences (also I was proofing at closer than normal reading distances) but it's not just trained eyes that can spot differences in resolution.

http://wolfcrow.com/blog/notes-by-dr-optoglass-the-resolution-of-the-human-eye/

If the average reading distance is 1 foot (12 inches = 305 mm), p @0.4 arc minute is 35.5 microns or about 720 ppi/dpi. p @1 arc minute is 89 microns or about 300 dpi/ppi. This is why magazines are printed at 300 dpi – it’s good enough for most people. Fine art printers aim for 720, and that’s the best it need be. Very few people stick their heads closer than 1 foot away from a painting or photograph.

Also see: http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/eye-resolution.html

[MahrinSkel]

http://wolfcrow.com/blog/notes-by-dr-optoglass-the-resolution-of-the-human-eye/

If the average reading distance is 1 foot (12 inches = 305 mm), p @0.4 arc minute is 35.5 microns or about 720 ppi/dpi. p @1 arc minute is 89 microns or about 300 dpi/ppi. This is why magazines are printed at 300 dpi – it’s good enough for most people. Fine art printers aim for 720, and that’s the best it need be. Very few people stick their heads closer than 1 foot away from a painting or photograph.

Also see: http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/eye-resolution.html

Bolded the important bits. Most people are not holding tablets one foot away from their face, nor can most eyes discriminate detail of less than 1 MOA. For the typical tablet user 100 dpi is fine and anything over 150 dpi is overkill and sale brochure hype.

--Dave

Edit: I remember having this same argument here over 720p vs 1080p about ten years ago. Unless you're using it for a computer monitor or otherwise sitting much closer to it than usual, there is no need for 1080p on sets smaller than 60".

[Trippy]

Bolted the important bits. Most people are not holding tablets one foot away from their face, nor can most eyes discriminate detail of less than 1 MOA. For the typical tablet user 100 dpi is fine and anything over 150 dpi is overkill and sale brochure hype.

Sure if you are blind as a bat. Also note that Hoax is looking to buy a smaller tablet and he likely will be holding it closer than a larger-sized tablet.

[MahrinSkel]

He also wants to spend in the neighborhood of $180. Does he want supersharp text that he may not even be able to actually detect the difference in, or more ram, flash, CPU, etc.?

--Dave

[Trippy]

As you bolded above there's a reason why magazines are printed at 300 dpi vs 150 dpi. Unless you are claiming he's going to be holding his tablet further away than he would hold a magazine he *will* notice the difference unless he is as blind as a bat.