The 'Build Me A PC' Thread

[Hoax]

He's looking to upgrade from a pre-Sandy i7 so yeah he should probably go i7, I don't see another viable option its either the 4790 or the 4790K (+$61). I rarely think the K's are worth the money but I haven't looked up benchmarks for this particular one.

For mobo if you are looking to burn more money (or maybe continue to use Asus parts) the Sabertooth Mark 2 is avail for $230 instead of $150 for the Gigabyte Z97-HD3 which I think is a solid rec. I was hoping to find the Asus Z97-PRO but they seem to be producing a ton of models even by Asus standards so that's vanished from the last time I was looking.

My personal #1 priority upgrade to Noisy's build would be at PSU where I highly recommend one of the Corsair AX-760 (+$117, still worth it imo) as that is made by SeaSonic which is the only name in Power Supplies I need to ever find. Either that or I would special order / go to another source to find a smaller SeaSonic if that can save some of that cash, 760 is obscene probably even for all the HD's and shit you intend to power.

I would spend a little more and get a Noctua cpu cooler (even the cheap ones are great) or spend a lot more and get one of those self contained Corsair liquid cooling systems, I've had rave reviews from the two systems I've built in the past 3 years with them.

Everything else Noisy has said seems obvious except I would always bite the bullet and do some poking around on GPU roundups to make a choice.

[MisterNoisy]

He's looking to upgrade from a pre-Sandy i7 so yeah he should probably go i7, I don't see another viable option its either the 4790 or the 4790K (+$61). I rarely think the K's are worth the money but I haven't looked up benchmarks for this particular one.

For mobo if you are looking to burn more money (or maybe continue to use Asus parts) the Sabertooth Mark 2 is avail for $230 instead of $150 for the Gigabyte Z97-HD3 which I think is a solid rec. I was hoping to find the Asus Z97-PRO but they seem to be producing a ton of models even by Asus standards so that's vanished from the last time I was looking.

My personal #1 priority upgrade to Noisy's build would be at PSU where I highly recommend one of the Corsair AX-760 (+$117, still worth it imo) as that is made by SeaSonic which is the only name in Power Supplies I need to ever find. Either that or I would special order / go to another source to find a smaller SeaSonic if that can save some of that cash, 760 is obscene probably even for all the HD's and shit you intend to power.

I would spend a little more and get a Noctua cpu cooler (even the cheap ones are great) or spend a lot more and get one of those self contained Corsair liquid cooling systems, I've had rave reviews from the two systems I've built in the past 3 years with them.

Everything else Noisy has said seems obvious except I would always bite the bullet and do some poking around on GPU roundups to make a choice.

Yeah - the PSU would not be my first choice, but should be adequate.  That site doesn't really have my top choices for budget PSUs (SeaSonic, Corsair HX/TX series, NZXT, etc.).  The Silverstone Strider Plus 600W (+$17) would be a good replacement though and I have amended the original build accordingly.

As for the CPU coolers, the only Noctua they had that was currently available is a 92mm model.  My top budget pick from that site would be the NZXT Havik 140, but it won't fit in that case.

[Trippy]

So it's that time of the decade again, where I've saved up some money and am looking to build-buy a new PC. The last one was built 4 years ago now from advice here and still works a dream, it just doesn't quite have the grunt I'd like to have for a few of the newer games out there.

I do have a bunch of criteria, though.

Remember, these are Australian Dollars and Australian prices. Yeah, we get ripped off. It's the way of things.
Am buying it from this place: - they have some of the best local prices around. I'm not willing to mail order parts internationally from newegg, etc
http://www.centrecom.com.au/buildpc

Budget is AU$2000
SSD HDD for boot disc. Probably a second one for Steam games and stuff I access all the time.
CPU and GPU - I'm after that 75% point where the best value and price intersect - no need for bleeding edge and the price that comes with it. I generally prefer NVIDIA/Intel, but you guys are more up to date than I am with this stuff.
8gb RAM? 16gb RAM? More? You tell me - I don't want to ever need to touch it again, though.
Some 3 of 4tb internal drives. At least two. I'll have to pull a couple from this machine to add in, as well.
Maybe a built-in WAP so my wireless devices can access the network (or should I buy a couple of inexpensive standalone WAP/switches for upstairs and downstairs? Any advice there?) Someone recommended tplink wa901nd for coverage since I have 2 floors and a separate garage
Optical Drive - Ideally a BR player that is also a DVDR and not region locked

No need for a sound card. Onboard 5-channel is fine

For the case I want easily-added/accessable drive bays. Preferably side-mounts, potentially hotswappable, tool-less - and an external mount for a full SATA drive wouldn't hurt, either. (my wife's Coolermaster case has all this, and I have been jealous for years now!)
Definitely side-mounted drives so there's no chance of me bumping the GPU card and so forth when I add (or remove) HDDs

Probably this card reader:
http://www.centrecom.com.au/tehrmaltake-black-extreme-speed-30-multi-card-reader

I've got an unopened OEM Win7 home I'll be using instead of Windows 8.

No need for KB+M, Monitor, etc. I have those.

Here's my first pass at a recommended build with annotations (*):

Intel CPU Core i5 4670 Haswell 6MB Cache 3.4Ghz (up to 3.8GHz) LGA 1150 BX80646I54670 Quad Core Processor   1   $242.00
* I don't do as much multi-core/multi-threaded stuff personally these days so I think the i5 is fine for a gaming box. If you need Hyper-threading then you'll probably want the i7. If you want to overclock you'll want a "K" CPU like the i5-4690K.

Asus Z97M-Plus   1   $148.00
* Z97 chipset is good if you think you might want to get a Broadwell CPU in a few years. Otherwise a Z87 may be sufficient (Z87 may also work with Broadwell but would require a BIOS upgrade). Chart of differences between Z97 and Z87.

Corsair 8GB (2x 4GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL 9 DDR3 XMS3 (CMX8GX3M2A1600C9)   1   $104.00
* I like lots of memory (i.e. 16 GB) but given your drive requirements that may not be possible right now. Memory is easy to add later on if you need it assuming the slots aren't blocked by something you would have to remove to install the RAM.

WESTERN DIGITAL 4TB CAVIAR GREEN 3.5" 64MB Cache 6GB   2   $179.00
* WD Green's don't have the greatest reputation but I find they are fine for infrequent use. If these drives are going to be used heavily you'll probably want to consider the Reds or other more robust drives.

Thermaltake Black Urban S41 Mid Tower Chassis (USB3)   1   $149.00
* This case that MisterNoisy picked out has mediocre reviews on Newegg but it does have the features you require. I like the Fractal Design cases myself. A bit nicer than your typical Antec case but they don't have the fancy features you need other than side loading drive cages. If you want real hot-swappable drive cages you'll need something more akin to these things which require a case with sufficient external 5.25" drive bays. They typically come with extremely noisy fans, however, so they are not good if the case is sitting near you (unless you disconnect the fans).

Corsair AX760   1   $259.00
* Already been discussed. I use Seasonics or Seasonic-based Corsairs in my machines. The Seasonic-based PSes are pricey, though, and you can save $100 by going with something else.

LG LGE RET BH16NS40 - BLK - BluRay Burner, 10xBD-R Read/ Write, 16xDVD+-R Read/ Write, SATA, Silt Play, M-Disc Support (BH16NS40.AYBR10B)   1   $99.00

PC Assembly Labour   1   $82.50

Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (MZ-7PD256BW) 2.5" SSD   1   $169.00
* Slightly faster than the EVO and better write endurance (MLC vs TLC NAND). The SanDisk Extreme II is very good too (MLC, very fast performance).

Noctua NH-U9B-SE2 All-In-One Performance CPU Cooler   1   $59.00
* Noctua's my preferred air cooler brand. The CoolerMaster Hyper 212 has very good performance and would likely be quieter (120mm fan vs 92mm fan) but I hated the mounting system and replaced mine with yet another Noctua.

EVGA GTX 760 2GB With ACX Cooler   1   $317.00
* For 1080p enthusiast gaming the GTX 760 or the AMD R9 270X is the sweet spot. I still prefer NVIDIA and their drivers.

Thermaltake Black Extreme Speed USB3.0 Multi-Card Reader   1   $45.00

Total: $2031.50

[Trippy]

And only semi-related, but what are the thoughts on this thing? The shop guy recommended it to me, but I trust you guys more than I'll ever trust a shop guy.

tplink wa901nd
http://www.centrecom.com.au/tp-link-tl-wa901nd-300mbps-wireless-n-access-point

2 storey house, attached garage. Wired network, but would like freedom to use the tablet in the garage, in bed, wandering around downstairs, etc. Doesn't need to be for low-latency gaming, etc - just browsing and maybe some youtube, etc.

No you don't want that. Get something that supports 802.11ac.

Actually if it's just for a tablet then 802.11n would be fine. If you wanted to use a laptop on it and transfer large files between it and your desktops 802.11ac would likely be better (assuming your laptop has an 802.11ac adapter).

[Cyrrex]

Trippy - I'm very curious about your recommendation of the 760 GTX card.  It is a good card (and the R9 270x might be an even better value for the dollar)...but in absolute terms, I just can't imagine spending this kind of money on a rig and then not getting at least a 770 GTX or a R9 290.  It doesn't even appear to be a whole lot more expensive. 

I guess it depends on what the machine's main function is, but it just seems to me like it would be handicapping the system.  I'd personally sacrifice other stuff first.

[Trippy]

It's a question of balancing his other requirements. There's always something faster/bigger/better for slightly more money than what you choose. The GTX 770 is faster but it's ~$80 - $100 more so to fit that within his budget would mean sacrificing something else like one of the hard drives. The video card is also one of the easiest things to upgrade in a system, if you do that sort of thing. When I build gaming PCs I typically spend more on the CPU and skimp a bit on the video card and upgrade it later since the CPU is painful to replace.

[Cyrrex]

Easy to replace, but really expensive!

I'd pay the extra 80 or so...if gaming was my primary concern. 

Another point to consider - if you have family members who inherit your old stuff, paying a little more now for a GPU will definitely save you money in the long run.  I have this policy of always getting at least the x70 series nvidia card, and it has paid off for sure.  Oldest son gets a 570 GTX card from me, and it is still fast as the blazes despite being three years old or something.  His younger brother gets the 285 GTX which is close to 6 years old, and it still can manage things like Skyrim at max settings and most other stuff.  I am able to upgrade all three machines every time I buy one new card, because the old stuff is still relevant.  That would not be the case if I was buying the x60 series stuff.

Just food for thought.

[Trippy]

The x60 (Ti) has been the sweet spot for NVIDIA GPUs for a while now. Yes you get better future proofing by spending more money on an x70 or x80 but that's a budget tradeoff as I said above.

[Azazel]

Once again thank you guys -

If it comes down to it, I can live initially with one SSD for the boot disc and one solid spinner. I'd rather max out the RAM initially with identical and appropriate sticks then never need to touch it again, and similarly with the CPU/GPU. HDDs are easy enough to install, and they're add-ons rather than upgrades. I'll probably pull my main media drive across, but leave the secondary storage drive, the boot drive and the SSD in here.

The new HDD would ideally be for Steam (and some other stuff), so it'll get a fair bit of work. If I mirror what I've got going here, a second SSD would be for MMOs and Origin (BF4). I'v elove one for Steam, but Steam is big, even with only part of my collection installed. 720gb at present.

Hotswappable in the case would be nice, but tool-less side-mounts is more important - and again comes down to ease of adding (or pulling) HDDs and SSDs down the line without bumping shit. An external port is really important, though - her PC's mount has saved me a shitload of trouble with drives in the past.

No plans to overclock, and no idea if I need hyperthreading for games. Broadwell would be a subsequent build rather than an upgrade.

.....
If I put the buy off for an extra 2-week pay cycle, I can likely get to $2400 or so. Maybe $2500. Which I can live with, given how long the machine should last and how much time I'll spend using it for work and play.


Cyrrex - in actuality I end up mostly surfing the web and doing work on the thing (I'm getting old), and I do a little video editing and a bit of photoshop, but I'd like to be able to run high-end AAA games like butter for a couple of years, (otherwise I wouldn't be upgrading - this machine still does all of those other things just fine).

Not really - most of the stuff that was 'special order' was things like super-premium cases (the one in that build was selected for the built-in 3.5" HDD dock on the top and fairly tasteful appearance), high-end motherboards, the 4970K and what not.  If you want a full ATX motherboard for more expansion room, replace the ASRock with the Gigabyte Z97-HD3 Motherboard (+$14).

A full-sized mobo seems to be the way to go? More space, more slots, etc. Especially for the price of a lunch.

Actually if it's just for a tablet then 802.11n would be fine. If you wanted to use a laptop on it and transfer large files between it and your desktops 802.11ac would likely be better (assuming your laptop has an 802.11ac adapter).

Well, we have a Dell Laptop and also a Surface Pro as well, so maybe 802.11ac would be better/more versatile? How can I check what they support, and which 802.11ac WAP would you recommend? Maybe I can set up the WAP while waiting for the PC.

[Cyrrex]

Agreed that the x60 has been the best "bang for buck" in the nVidia series for the last 3 generations or so (isn't the Ti version actually the slower one this generation?  Might be).  And it will probably still run things smooth enough for the foreseeable future. 

I guess what that means is to get the 760 if you are a bit tight.  Get the 770 if you have the cash...I think it is worth it if you don't have to sacrifice anything major.

[MisterNoisy]

Agreed that the x60 has been the best "bang for buck" in the nVidia series for the last 3 generations or so (isn't the Ti version actually the slower one this generation?  Might be).  And it will probably still run things smooth enough for the foreseeable future. 

I guess what that means is to get the 760 if you are a bit tight.  Get the 770 if you have the cash...I think it is worth it if you don't have to sacrifice anything major.

Maxwell is supposed to come before the end of the year, so maybe buy a 760 now to save some cash and pop in a 870 (or equivalent) then.

[Azazel]

Nah, that's like flushing $300 down the toilet for no real reason. There's always something new and improved just around the corner. I just want to build a new machine and forget about it after that. Except for adding more storage.

[Cyrrex]

Taking the 770 definitely adds more life.  You just have to figure out if it is worth 100 Aussie Bucks worth of life.  When already spending 2k, I'd say it's a no-brainer.  If you just came in here asking for a nice budget card upgrade, that'd be a different story.

[apocrypha]

Problem at the moment is that the current gen cards are ridiculously priced and haven't seen the kind of price drops you'd normally expect at this point in the product cycle. I've read some articles saying that the graphics card market is completely stagnant at the moment because AMD & Nvidia are refusing to drop prices, leaving retailers with large amounts of unsold stock yet unable to heavily discount.

The 8xx Maxwell line is slated to be cheaper, faster and with lower power requirements than the current 7xx's, so it would seem like a really bad deal to get a 7xx now unless you can get a decent price, which basically means a 2Gb 760. I'm badly in need of a new card since I'm running a 2.5k monitor for graphics editing work and running most games at 2560x1440 stretches my 560Ti far too much. However I'm not shelling out £400 for a 770 and a 760, while cheaper, will be a waste of money for me since it doesn't have the high resolution oomph I want. So I'm sat waiting for Nov/Dec for the 8xx's to release and playing games in 1080p windows in the mean time.

I know almost nothing about AMD cards I'm afraid so I can't comment on them other than to say that everyone I know with one moans bitterly about shitty drivers and problems in multiple games.

[Cyrrex]

AMD has a couple good bang-for-buck cards, but for all intents nVidia is just kicking the shit out of them lately.

I will believe that the 8xx series cards are cheaper when I see it, and not before.  They have no reason at all to make them cheaper to the public.  I will also believe their claims of being hugely faster when I see them.  It has been years since we have seen huge leaps, despite the claims to the contrary.

Also, 400 quid for a 770 card?  Gods no.  You can get them for something closer to 220 quid. 

[apocrypha]

Sorry, my bad, was thinking of the 780 prices!

[Chimpy]

AMD has a couple good bang-for-buck cards, but for all intents nVidia is just kicking the shit out of them lately.

According to the Tom's Hardware rankings, AMD is the best at pretty much every price point until you get up over 600 bucks.

Problem at the moment is that the current gen cards are ridiculously priced and haven't seen the kind of price drops you'd normally expect at this point in the product cycle. I've read some articles saying that the graphics card market is completely stagnant at the moment because AMD & Nvidia are refusing to drop prices, leaving retailers with large amounts of unsold stock yet unable to heavily discount.

The 8xx Maxwell line is slated to be cheaper, faster and with lower power requirements than the current 7xx's, so it would seem like a really bad deal to get a 7xx now unless you can get a decent price, which basically means a 2Gb 760. I'm badly in need of a new card since I'm running a 2.5k monitor for graphics editing work and running most games at 2560x1440 stretches my 560Ti far too much. However I'm not shelling out £400 for a 770 and a 760, while cheaper, will be a waste of money for me since it doesn't have the high resolution oomph I want. So I'm sat waiting for Nov/Dec for the 8xx's to release and playing games in 1080p windows in the mean time.

I know almost nothing about AMD cards I'm afraid so I can't comment on them other than to say that everyone I know with one moans bitterly about shitty drivers and problems in multiple games.

AMD cards are overpriced because of cryptocurrency miners buying them up so supply is constrained on a lot of their cards as they are very good for mining (especially litecoins).

As far as driver issues, I have been running an AMD card of one variety or another for the last 8 years and have had no real problems with drivers.

[Hoax]

I thought nobody was using GPU's to mine anymore or is that only bitcoins? Also coins are fucking stupid.

[Trippy]

For Bitcoin they've switched to ASICs. Also Bitcoin farms have gotten ridiculously large these days:

http://www.thecoinsman.com/2014/08/bitcoin/inside-chinese-bitcoin-mine/

[Cyrrex]

AMD has a couple good bang-for-buck cards, but for all intents nVidia is just kicking the shit out of them lately.

According to the Tom's Hardware rankings, AMD is the best at pretty much every price point until you get up over 600 bucks.

I kind of stopped putting stock into Tom's Hardware a few years ago.  I personally think they have jumped the shark a bit.  Their hierarchy chart is full of headscratchers, for one thing...they like to group things that theoretically belong together, but don't seem to in reality (I know this for a fact in a few cases).  Anyway, I guess my point is that I only see there being one AMD card currently worth buying, the 290 or 290x...but the problem is that these are supposed to compete with a 780 or a Titan card, but totally do not.  They apparently perform in the real world more like a 770 GTX, which is quite a bit cheaper.  The 280s are meant to match up to the 770, but compare better to the 760.  Etc.

In short, I think Tom's is full of shit.  But I will say that the issue of AMD drivers is overblown.  I have had two cards over the past 5 years from AMD, and have had zero trouble.

[Numtini]

For Bitcoin they've switched to ASICs. Also Bitcoin farms have gotten ridiculously large these days:

http://www.thecoinsman.com/2014/08/bitcoin/inside-chinese-bitcoin-mine/

That was absolutely hysterical. My favorite:

The other feeling I got while there is that this is kind of a libertarian fantasy for many. These guys are performing a valuable service and getting paid well for it. Too many in the world get paid well at the expense of others, or dedicate their lives to giving back to society without a penny in return, but mining farms like these are participating in the economy in a purely capitalist way

Yes, what could be more useful to the world than mining bitcoins. Thank Gods these folks aren't out wasting their lives teaching or researching or building something.

[Azazel]

So here's the next Q&A for my machine, based on the two builds that MisterNoisy and Trippy came up with.

Using the most expensive of all of the components, it comes to $2184.50 - though that's with one SSD and one HDD. So there's still some room to play if I'm stretching the budget to $24-500. As always advice is incredibly appreciated:



CPU *
Intel CPU Core i5 4670 Haswell 6MB Cache 3.4Ghz (up to 3.8GHz) LGA 1150 BX80646I54670 Quad Core Processor   1   $242.00
or
Intel i7-4790 3.60GHZ Quad-Core 8MB Cache LGA1150    1    $337.00  


**********No overclocking planned. Is there a significant difference between these two? And where will it make a difference?



Motherboard *
   ASRock Z97M PRO4 MATX Motherboard 1150 Socket    1    $135.00
or
Asus Z97M-Plus   1   $148.00
* Z97 chipset is good if you think you might want to get a Broadwell CPU in a few years. Otherwise a Z87 may be sufficient (Z87 may also work with Broadwell but would require a BIOS upgrade). Chart of differences between Z97 and Z87.

**********I know nothing at all about motherboards. I'd prefer a full-sized one, though - just for ease of use and extra slots.



RAM *
   16GB (8GBx2) Kit Kingston Hyper X DDR3-1600 CL10 240-Pin DIMM Blue    1    $179.00  
or
Corsair 8GB (2x 4GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL 9 DDR3 XMS3 (CMX8GX3M2A1600C9)   1   $104.00

**********I'd much prefer 16GB of RAM. Unfortunately, I don't know much about the additional features of RAM either, aside from the fact that bigger numbers are usually better - but I want to ensure that the RAM I choose will work well with the Motherboard at max capacity, etc. For example, I really don't know enough to know the difference between these for example - though all are within my amended budget:


Corsair Vengeance Pro Series - 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1600MHz C9 (CMY16GX3M2A1600C9) - Black $208

Corsair Vengeance Pro Series - 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1600MHz C9 (CMY16GX3M2A1600C9B) - Blue $215

Corsair Vengeance Pro Series - 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1600MHz C9 (CMY16GX3M2A1600C9R) - Red $215

Corsair Vengeance Pro Series - 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1866MHz C9 (CMY16GX3M2A1866C9) - Black $229

Corsair Vengeance Pro Series - 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3 1866MHz C9 (CMY16GX3M2A1866C9B) - Blue $223


Storage Devices *
Western Digital WD Green 3TB, WD30EZRX WD Green, SATA III    2    $126.00
WESTERN DIGITAL 4TB CAVIAR GREEN 3.5" 64MB Cache 6GB   2   $179.00
* WD Green's don't have the greatest reputation but I find they are fine for infrequent use. If these drives are going to be used heavily you'll probably want to consider the Reds or other more robust drives.


**********So with one of the Greens above a possibility to add later for additional/infrequent storage, which would be better for frequent access (steam, etc) I'd have assumed the Black, but the Red's description re: NAS seems to indicate that it's designed for constant read/writing.

WD Black Series (WD3003FZEX) 3TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive $219

Western Digital 3TB Red WD30EFRX Designed for the NAS environment. Cooler faster better stronger $164



Thermaltake Black Urban S41 Mid Tower Chassis (USB3)   1   $149.00
* This case that MisterNoisy picked out has mediocre reviews on Newegg but it does have the features you require. I like the Fractal Design cases myself. A bit nicer than your typical Antec case but they don't have the fancy features you need other than side loading drive cages. If you want real hot-swappable drive cages you'll need something more akin to these things which require a case with sufficient external 5.25" drive bays. They typically come with extremely noisy fans, however, so they are not good if the case is sitting near you (unless you disconnect the fans).

**********I checked out the Fractal cases, but they have a door, which is something I'd effectively need to tear off since it'd just get in the way constantly. On the other hand, I didn't realise that thing like extrernal HDD docks even existed, and especially not for the affordable prices they have (remember, I haven't looked at Hardware for 4 years).
http://www.centrecom.com.au/astone-doc-130-hard-drive-dock-25-35-sata-to-usb-30

So now I'm more open to other case designs - though I'm after this kind of side-mount. You just pull the level and out slides the little HDD bay, so no need to bump and grind on the other internals. (and what is X-Dock??)
http://www.centrecom.com.au/cooler-master-haf-xm-922

This one seems to have pretty good reviews, actually - and has 6 bays and 2 hot-swappable + 1 SSD slot behind the mobo.[/color]
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2012/09/24/cooler-master-haf-xm-review/1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119257




Power Supply
600W SILVERSTONE Technology Strider Plus Cable Management PSU 80+ Silver    1    $129.00
Corsair AX760   1   $259.00
* Already been discussed. I use Seasonics or Seasonic-based Corsairs in my machines. The Seasonic-based PSes are pricey, though, and you can save $100 by going with something else.


**********More wattage seems like a really good idea, given what I'm planning to put inside (and expand with additional HDDs) but $260 for a PSU seems an awful lot. What are thoughts on this sort of thing?

Thermaltake 750w EVO Blue 2.0 $175
Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold M800 800W $186
Antec High Current Gamer 900W $179 (no stock)


LG LGE RET BH16NS40 - BLK - BluRay Burner, 10xBD-R Read/ Write, 16xDVD+-R Read/ Write, SATA, Silt Play, M-Disc Support (BH16NS40.AYBR10B)   1   $99.00

PC Assembly Labour   1   $82.50

Samsung 840 Pro 256GB (MZ-7PD256BW) 2.5" SSD   1   $169.00
* Slightly faster than the EVO and better write endurance (MLC vs TLC NAND). The SanDisk Extreme II is very good too (MLC, very fast performance).


CPU Cooler
Thermaltake NiC F3 PWM Multi Socket CPU Cooler [CLP0605]    1    $45.00    
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO CPU Cooler $45
Noctua NH-U9B-SE2 All-In-One Performance CPU Cooler   1   $59.00
* Noctua's my preferred air cooler brand. The CoolerMaster Hyper 212 has very good performance and would likely be quieter (120mm fan vs 92mm fan) but I hated the mounting system and replaced mine with yet another Noctua.

**********I'd prefer quieter overall, and I have no intention of messing with that part of the PC ever again. Any real differences or preferences between these three? (or others)


Graphic Card
   Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 770 (N770OC-2GD) - WINDFORCE 3X 450W    1    $395.00  
EVGA GTX 760 2GB With ACX Cooler   1   $317.00
* For 1080p enthusiast gaming the GTX 760 or the AMD R9 270X is the sweet spot. I still prefer NVIDIA and their drivers.


**********Not 100% sure, but leaning strongly towards the 770 due to the previous discussion and since it seems to have a significant performance bump over the 760. Even more so after pricing it out.


Thermaltake Black Extreme Speed USB3.0 Multi-Card Reader   1   $45.00

[Hoax]

There's a lot of stuff there and I'm pretty buzzed/tired but the Seasonic is for sure worth it, every system build (~6) I've done since about 2008 says you can't go wrong with their stuff.

For RAM you should note that CAS Latency aka the C9/C10/C11 is a pretty big deal and lower is better. So there's a reason that the Kingston setup is markedly cheaper than the others. I'm a Corsair brand loyalist because they've maintained a perfect record of not fucking up on me but that's not to say that any other brands are bad (Kingston & Gskill are well regarded, Mushkin and Crucial used to be primo brands dunno about now).

It often makes since to pick your motherboard last. Yes get a ATX not a mATX setup for this machine 100%.

If you care about quiet, you want Noctua unless you want to buy another option and also buy a top quality 120 fan because otherwise it won't be close noise wise from my experience primarily w/ Cooler Master stock fans.


*k was missing*

[Trippy]

So here's the next Q&A for my machine, based on the two builds that MisterNoisy and Trippy came up with.

Using the most expensive of all of the components, it comes to $2184.50 - though that's with one SSD and one HDD. So there's still some room to play if I'm stretching the budget to $24-500. As always advice is incredibly appreciated:

CPU *
Intel CPU Core i5 4670 Haswell 6MB Cache 3.4Ghz (up to 3.8GHz) LGA 1150 BX80646I54670 Quad Core Processor   1   $242.00
or
Intel i7-4790 3.60GHZ Quad-Core 8MB Cache LGA1150    1    $337.00  

**********No overclocking planned. Is there a significant difference between these two? And where will it make a difference?

The i7-4790 is slightly faster even without Hyper-threading because of the higher base speed (3.6 GHz vs 3.4 GHz). For games the extra .2 GHz is not going to make much difference. You are much better off spending that extra $95 on a more powerful GPU. If you want a faster i5 you can get the i5-4690K which has a 3.5 GHz base speed (and as a bonus it's unlocked if you do want to overclock).

RAM *
   16GB (8GBx2) Kit Kingston Hyper X DDR3-1600 CL10 240-Pin DIMM Blue    1    $179.00  
or
Corsair 8GB (2x 4GB) DDR3 1600MHz CL 9 DDR3 XMS3 (CMX8GX3M2A1600C9)   1   $104.00

**********I'd much prefer 16GB of RAM. Unfortunately, I don't know much about the additional features of RAM either, aside from the fact that bigger numbers are usually better - but I want to ensure that the RAM I choose will work well with the Motherboard at max capacity, etc. For example, I really don't know enough to know the difference between these for example - though all are within my amended budget:

If you aren't overclocking then you don't need a speed faster than 1600 MHz. The CL number does matter (the lower the better) as Hoax said above but I wouldn't stress too much over it. I prefer the memory without the fancy fins on top since that causes fewer issues with heat sinks. If you like the fins you'll need to verify your motherboard and heat sink has enough clearance for that memory. With the extra budget I'd go with 16 GB RAM for Photoshop -- games won't take advantage of that extra memory (currently).

Storage Devices *
Western Digital WD Green 3TB, WD30EZRX WD Green, SATA III    2    $126.00
WESTERN DIGITAL 4TB CAVIAR GREEN 3.5" 64MB Cache 6GB   2   $179.00
* WD Green's don't have the greatest reputation but I find they are fine for infrequent use. If these drives are going to be used heavily you'll probably want to consider the Reds or other more robust drives.


**********So with one of the Greens above a possibility to add later for additional/infrequent storage, which would be better for frequent access (steam, etc) I'd have assumed the Black, but the Red's description re: NAS seems to indicate that it's designed for constant read/writing.

WD Black Series (WD3003FZEX) 3TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive $219

Western Digital 3TB Red WD30EFRX Designed for the NAS environment. Cooler faster better stronger $164

The WD Reds are not 7200 RPM drives -- they will be slower than the Blacks. The Reds are good media drives, however. If you want a non-SSD game drive with a lot of space go with a WD Black drive.

Thermaltake Black Urban S41 Mid Tower Chassis (USB3)   1   $149.00
* This case that MisterNoisy picked out has mediocre reviews on Newegg but it does have the features you require. I like the Fractal Design cases myself. A bit nicer than your typical Antec case but they don't have the fancy features you need other than side loading drive cages. If you want real hot-swappable drive cages you'll need something more akin to these things which require a case with sufficient external 5.25" drive bays. They typically come with extremely noisy fans, however, so they are not good if the case is sitting near you (unless you disconnect the fans).

**********I checked out the Fractal cases, but they have a door, which is something I'd effectively need to tear off since it'd just get in the way constantly. On the other hand, I didn't realise that thing like extrernal HDD docks even existed, and especially not for the affordable prices they have (remember, I haven't looked at Hardware for 4 years).
http://www.centrecom.com.au/astone-doc-130-hard-drive-dock-25-35-sata-to-usb-30

So now I'm more open to other case designs - though I'm after this kind of side-mount. You just pull the level and out slides the little HDD bay, so no need to bump and grind on the other internals. (and what is X-Dock??)
http://www.centrecom.com.au/cooler-master-haf-xm-922

This one seems to have pretty good reviews, actually - and has 6 bays and 2 hot-swappable + 1 SSD slot behind the mobo.[/color]
http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/cases/2012/09/24/cooler-master-haf-xm-review/1
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811119257

Fractal Design has cases without doors like this one:

http://www.centrecom.com.au/fractal-design-arc-midi-r2-atx-mid-tower-computer-case-black-steel-ca-arc-r2-bl-w

I don't like the look of that Cooler Master case but it otherwise seems fine.

Power Supply
600W SILVERSTONE Technology Strider Plus Cable Management PSU 80+ Silver    1    $129.00
Corsair AX760   1   $259.00
* Already been discussed. I use Seasonics or Seasonic-based Corsairs in my machines. The Seasonic-based PSes are pricey, though, and you can save $100 by going with something else.


**********More wattage seems like a really good idea, given what I'm planning to put inside (and expand with additional HDDs) but $260 for a PSU seems an awful lot. What are thoughts on this sort of thing?

Thermaltake 750w EVO Blue 2.0 $175
Cooler Master Silent Pro Gold M800 800W $186
Antec High Current Gamer 900W $179 (no stock)

You actually don't need the extra wattage for hard drives -- they don't draw that much power. The extra wattage for you is mainly so the power supply runs cooler (less loaded) so the fan won't have to spin as fast. If the Corsair feels too expensive I would go this one, though the cables are not modular:

http://www.centrecom.com.au/fractal-design-integra-r2-750w-80bronze-psu

CPU Cooler
Thermaltake NiC F3 PWM Multi Socket CPU Cooler [CLP0605]    1    $45.00    
CoolerMaster Hyper 212 EVO CPU Cooler $45
Noctua NH-U9B-SE2 All-In-One Performance CPU Cooler   1   $59.00
* Noctua's my preferred air cooler brand. The CoolerMaster Hyper 212 has very good performance and would likely be quieter (120mm fan vs 92mm fan) but I hated the mounting system and replaced mine with yet another Noctua.

**********I'd prefer quieter overall, and I have no intention of messing with that part of the PC ever again. Any real differences or preferences between these three? (or others)

I've hated Thermaltake since their fucking "Golden Orb" days so I'm a bit biased. However I would say the best performing air cooled heat sinks available on that site are these three:

http://www.centrecom.com.au/noctua-d15-multi-socket-pwm-cpu-cooler
http://www.centrecom.com.au/thermaltake-frio-extreme-cpu-cooler-aluminium-6-heat-pipes-two-14cm-vr-pwm-fans
http://www.centrecom.com.au/noctua-nh-c14-cpu-cooler

The first two are fucking huge, though.

Personally unless I'm overclocking I like the Noctua dual 120mm fan single tower coolers. So I personally would go with this one (which is "in-store" only):

http://www.centrecom.com.au/noctua-nh-u12s-cpu-cooler

with a 2nd fan which is unfortunately on Pre-Order status.

http://www.centrecom.com.au/noctua-nf-f12-pwm-120mm

That combo is not any cheaper though than one of the other three listed above.

Graphic Card
   Gigabyte nVidia GeForce GTX 770 (N770OC-2GD) - WINDFORCE 3X 450W    1    $395.00  
EVGA GTX 760 2GB With ACX Cooler   1   $317.00
* For 1080p enthusiast gaming the GTX 760 or the AMD R9 270X is the sweet spot. I still prefer NVIDIA and their drivers.


**********Not 100% sure, but leaning strongly towards the 770 due to the previous discussion and since it seems to have a significant performance bump over the 760. Even more so after pricing it out.

Sure with the extra budget going with the 770 makes sense.

[MahrinSkel]

Well, I've had the MSI for a couple of weeks now, figured I'd give some field reports on the Dominator Dragon: It's a very nice rig, the most powerful I've had to date (and the first "gaming laptop").  It would cost about $1000 to build an equivalent desktop, so figure I spent about $600 extra for the convenience of portability.  I voided the warranty immediately, installing a Crucial 256GB SSD and migrating the OS to it, but the performance boost is appreciable and it goes to and from hibernation in about 4-5 seconds (so fast, I've disabled Sleep mode entirely).  Boots in about 10 seconds.

Raw performance is really nice, it does well with every game I've thrown at it, I even plan on getting active in MWO once I track down my I/O devices (Speedpad and G700 Logitech mouse).  HDMI output sucks (lots of tearing when playing movies), but the D-Sub output works just as it should, and most TV's these days have that input.  Passmark gives it good scores:



I'll probably add another 16GB of ram to it, but other than that it should last me through the next 4 years (they put the 8GB in the keyboard side slots, which leaves the two easily reached ones underneath open).

For a laptop, it's a big heavy monster.  I wouldn't want to actually have it in my lap, even with a "lap desk".  However, I've hooked it up to a wireless mouse and two keyboards (one a small combination keyboard/trackpad I use as a remote control when using it for media), which keeps me from having to deal with my least favorite attribute: The Synaptics touchpad insists on bringing up the Charms menu whenever I touch the right edge of the built-in touchpad, and the drivers have no option for turning that off (even some fairly aggressive registry editing didn't fix it).  The keyboard is pretty decent for a "Chiclet" style, and I don't mind it when I need to use it.  Overall build quality is a little better than the two year old ASUS RoG I compared it to (the ASUS seems to be all plastic, the underside, wrist rest, and most of the lid are aluminum on the MSI), although I can see that the hinges probably wouldn't hold up to any major physical stress, it will be fine as a desktop replacement.

Definitely way ahead of ASUS, and the only edge I'd give to Lenovo is that those work much better in your lap.  ASUS RoG equivalents of the MSI laptops run 30-50% higher than MSI, and from what I can see all you get for that is better HDMI.  Since you've also got D-Sub and DisplayPort connections, unless you really need to drive four monitors from your laptop, you can live without HDMI.

--Dave

Edit: BTW, the BD-ROM was a misprint, the higher end models have it but the bottom end does not.  So I paid $50 for "Shiny", but it was still worth it.  Remember the first time you saw an Alienware laptop with the glowing eyes?  The laser-engraved dragon catching the light is the same "what the hell was that?" feeling.

[Trippy]

Stormwaltz's keyboard question moved here:

http://forums.f13.net/index.php?topic=14149.msg1308785#msg1308785

[Jimbo]

Wow, you guys are awesome. I almost upgraded and got :

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/gZCwyc
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/gZCwyc/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4690K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor  ($229.67 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-D14 65.0 CFM CPU Cooler  ($71.98 @ OutletPC)
Motherboard: MSI Z97-GAMING 5 ATX LGA1150 Motherboard  ($139.99 @ NCIX US)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory  ($179.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital VelociRaptor 1TB 3.5" 10000RPM Internal Hard Drive  ($213.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: Gigabyte GeForce GTX 770 4GB WINDFORCE Video Card  ($369.99 @ Newegg)

Re-Using
Case: Antec Twelve Hundred ATX Full Tower Case  (Purchased For $0.00)
Power Supply: PC Power & Cooling Silencer Mk II 750W 80+ Silver Certified ATX Power Supply  (Purchased For $0.00)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer  (Purchased For $0.00)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional SP1 (OEM) (64-bit)  (Purchased For $0.00)
Sound Card: Asus Xonar DX 24-bit 192 KHz Sound Card  (Purchased For $0.00)
Total: $1205.60
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2014-08-19 17:11 EDT-0400

Not bad. But should I wait till we see what happens in a couple of months with the Nvidia 880 gtx ti comes out? If it can really be faster, cheaper, and less power use I'll try it.

The other thing I might change is getting the Gigabyte's 780 gtx ti instead of the 770. But dang the price jumps a lot.

Other crap I need to do...get new keyboard (possible mouse too), wireless router (lol the son and his friends though it was ours they were using...neighbor has unprotected wifi and the kids use it), add 2 USB 3 ports to the front of my case, eventually get a better printer and blue ray player/writer...hell might as well get a removable hard drive, oh need the SSD, but will save to get the 512 GB instead of the 256.

Between college that my son started, needed some house repairs, and wanting to travel, ugh I'm gonna have to keep working overtime.

[MahrinSkel]

You really want to add an SSD to that, the improvement is just unreal.  Even a 10K RPM HDD is lucky to get transfer rates approaching 100MB/sec, even a so-so SSD will triple that (my Crucial MX100 is getting around 450MB/sec, and it was only $110).  You could drop the 1TB HDD to a 7200 RPM model for bulk storage and make up most of the price.

SSD's have gone from nice-to-have to commodity hardware in the last few months.  There's no reason to build a system without one anymore.

--Dave

EDIT: If you really want to be insane, don't buy a 512.  Buy two identical 240-256GB models, and RAID them.  Price won't be much different, assuming your mobo has a decent RAID controller.

[Engels]

As I found out a few years back, a BD-ROM on a PC is largely worthless. There's precisely one piece of software that will play BRs on a PC, and it's overpriced bloatware that you have to re-buy every year.

My PowerDVD has never required renewal and plays BluRay. It was purchased about 4 years ago tho, so maybe the renewal thing is for the newer versions of the software. That said, I have stopped caring about high resolutions on movies.

[Trippy]

Blu-ray players have to be patched regularly to keep them up-to-date with changing copy protection schemes. Cyberlink does release updates for their players but eventually they do stop supporting a particular version and you have to buy a newer version to play newer Blu-rays.

[Cyrrex]

I only started using SSDs less than a year ago, and it is easily the best general upgrade for the PC.  The sexy video cards and fast CPUs are nice, but if I have to be honest most of the shit I spend time on doesn't require all that speed.  The SSD, on the other hand, makes EVERYTHING faster.  My PC literally boots in 2 seconds (combined with the Instant Boot utility on my MB)...it is actually ready to go before my monitor wakes up, with full functionality available.

Also, I think it pays to spend a little more and get a good one.  The Samsung I got is noticeably quicker than the Kingston one I gave to the boy, due to the higher Read speed.

[Engels]

Blu-ray players have to be patched regularly to keep them up-to-date with changing copy protection schemes. Cyberlink does release updates for their players but eventually they do stop supporting a particular version and you have to buy a newer version to play newer Blu-rays.

I was not aware of this level of tardery. My BR player is probably pointless and I didn't even know it!

[Azazel]

EDIT: If you really want to be insane, don't buy a 512.  Buy two identical 240-256GB models, and RAID them.  Price won't be much different, assuming your mobo has a decent RAID controller.

Why would you RAID SSDs? (serious question)

[Yegolev]

Blu-ray players have to be patched regularly to keep them up-to-date with changing copy protection schemes. Cyberlink does release updates for their players but eventually they do stop supporting a particular version and you have to buy a newer version to play newer Blu-rays.

I was not aware of this level of tardery. My BR player is probably pointless and I didn't even know it!

I had already suspected that this is why I can no longer play home-movie BRD on my PS3.  Which is really the last straw, so I'm now just storing the raw files in data form on Blu-ray, for capacity reasons.

[Cyrrex]

Blu-ray players have to be patched regularly to keep them up-to-date with changing copy protection schemes. Cyberlink does release updates for their players but eventually they do stop supporting a particular version and you have to buy a newer version to play newer Blu-rays.

I was not aware of this level of tardery. My BR player is probably pointless and I didn't even know it!

I had already suspected that this is why I can no longer play home-movie BRD on my PS3.  Which is really the last straw, so I'm now just storing the raw files in data form on Blu-ray, for capacity reasons.

It's like they are making us pirate stuff!