Kotaku: Creating Drama You Can't Make Up

[stray]

Not petty at all. It's their shit. Kotaku was in a privileged Insider state. Sony wasn't beholden to them. Kotaku decides to break trust for their own short term gain. Sony has every right to take their own shit back.

The real dirty thing is them trying to make it out like Sony didn't have the right. I don't think that shit happens in any other consumer reporting industry. But Crescente knows he even has leverage here, because he has a retarded fanbase who can get riled up about anything he says.

[edit] Anyhow, I guess it's all blown over now.


In other news: Possible return of Rumble? Yay

[Riggswolfe]

The mud on Sony I was referring to was both reactions cost them in a market segment

1) Cutting off this guy obviously caused a backlash and they were able to paint Sony as bullies
2) Going back on it and bringing them back in made them look like pussies and may embolden future leaks like this.

[LanTheWarder]

Sony should have just left it as a no comment and this would have had a lot less exposure. The rumor wasn't even that interesting to begin with.

[Strazos]

I've never liked Kotaku, or Crescente in particular. Fucking fanboi amateurs. This wasn't journalism. Sony wasn't trying to cover anything up, which would warrant such an "expose."

Also, their site is ugly as shit.

[Trippy]

I also find it amusingly ironic that some of you who decry gaming "journalism's" cozy relationship with the gaming industry are suddenly siding with Sony when a gaming site decides one time not to suck up to them.

[Trippy]

I've never liked Kotaku, or Crescente in particular. Fucking fanboi amateurs. This wasn't journalism. Sony wasn't trying to cover anything up, which would warrant such an "expose."

If it wasn't that big a deal to Sony they shouldn't have taken their ball away.

[schild]

The only big deal was who released the information. Obviously Sony wanted to AND they asked nicely.

If anyone over reacted it was Gawker fucking media.

[Margalis]

I'm all for journalistic standards and objectivity, not being afraid to back down and all that jazz. But again this is not some sort of serious story.

GAMERS NEED TO KNOW - RIGHT NOW!!!

No.

This was the wrong time to choose "not to suck up." And there is a difference between sucking up and being respectful of a relationship.

Journalistic integrity means not hyping things up and not giving undeserved reviews. Having a critical eye. No BS "top games of 2008!!" that just polish the knobs of whoever invited you to some retreat.

Leaking PR info is not journalistic integrity. This "for teh journalism" stuff is retarded.

[Strazos]

I've never liked Kotaku, or Crescente in particular. Fucking fanboi amateurs. This wasn't journalism. Sony wasn't trying to cover anything up, which would warrant such an "expose."

If it wasn't that big a deal to Sony they shouldn't have taken their ball away.

I didn't say it wasn't a big deal. This was Sony's new baby, and they should have respected that and let Sony show it off first. And they asked nicely. Crecente just decided to be a dick and steal the spotlight.

[Margalis]

The readers at slashdot get it at least. If you look at the comments there they are at least 50% pro-Sony.

Kotaku has a right to print what they want, and Sony has a right to revoke special access. Nobody is inviting me to Sony events or giving me PS3 debug units - is that some sort of crime?

I agree with Schild that Sony backing down makes them look weak and it also makes them look like they are acknowledging that they overreacted. By backing down they are admitting they were wrong even though they weren't wrong at all. And now Kotaku gets to basically gloat that they were right from the start.

[DataGod]

"I agree it's silly and pointless. What I don't understand is why all of you think "prior restraint" is a good thing."

Because companies large and small spend money on marketing and PR, well timed, precise marketing, they also spend money giving jackass sites with high traffic rating free shit, thats the cost of going to the dance.

And when those sites and journalists give them the big FU, they get pissed. OTOH who the hell knows, maybe it was a put on, theres a lot of benifit to be had on both sides in driving traffic and generating buzz before a big event. What I'm saying is half the shit you see IS engineered to drive eyeballs. And given the nature of Gawker properties it wouldnt suprise me.

Think of it this way, your friend spends a lot of money making killer snow boards, in fact hes a big snow board supplier, he gives you free snow boards, and you report on snow boards on your blog, he tells you about this new model of snow board, but hes going to announce it at the big rasta-stoner-snow board convention. And you decide to drop the infor on your blog 7 days before, after your buddy just paid 150,000 for the promotion, media and event staff as well as all the time organizing it.

Basically you just told your friend to go fuck himself, thanks for all the free snow boards man, so you could get a few shekles of advertising in your pocket from an increased traffic rating. Then you fell back on your trump card of "journalistic integrity"

So whos the asshole, the guy for saying, no you cant come to the convention after party because you just fucked me over or the guy who got all the free shit then thanklessly did the fucking?

Businesses are built on relationships, if people cant trust you they cant do business with you, and are reluctant to do business with people who are similar to you, in fact they might change thier policy of even bothering to talk to the snow board fan sites......

What this means is one person can fuck up the free snow board supply for everyone else....

If you dont get this imagine a Mac fanboy site that got free stuff dropped info on the iPhone 7 days before the Mac Expo, what kind of armageddon do you think Steve Jobs would have perpetrated on every Mac Fansite that (used) to get free shit?


Basically the company was asking Koto to STFU and not act like an asshat for 7 days...

[Triforcer]

Kotaku's move was bad from their own tactical point of view (ie, being able to get further scoops).  Sony was also completely within their rights to not feed them information anymore.  That being said:

People's moral indignation here is fucking ridiculous.  I am going to remember this thread and link it every time somebody complains about how the media is beholden to X group and how it won't report on any topics their masters don't want them to report on.  At that point, I link this thread and say "Information about X topic isn't "Real" news.  Ya'll should've respected the PR right of the campaign/government/corporation to release this at the time best for themselves".  EDIT:  Made example more general (put in "X" in place of political group) to avoid hurting Stray's fragile feelings and to avoid the possibility of similar maniacs derailing from my general point.   

Summary: you can't label an entire industry "not news" and them lambast people reporting within it unless you respect the right of everyone else to arbitrarily label entire industries "not news".   

 

[stray]

Huh? Republicans?

Please. Just for once: Start talking about games. Pretty please? 

Secondly - Don't confuse political news and world issues journalists with product reporting. Entirely different thing. Gaming journalism is similar to Car and Driver or Home Audio and Video. Not Bob Woodward and Christiane Amanpour.

[EDIT] I've never said this before, but you should be BANNED for that bullshit. Fucking asshole. Stop making this about your personal political beliefs.

[Triforcer]

Huh? Republicans?

Please. Just for once: Start talking about games. Pretty please? 

Secondly - Don't confuse political news and world issues journalists with product reporting. Entirely different thing. Gaming journalism is similar to Car and Driver or Home Audio and Video. Not Bob Woodward and Christiane Amanpour.

[EDIT] I've never said this before, but you should be BANNED for that bullshit. Fucking asshole. Stop making this about your personal political beliefs.

  Wow, something in this story really hit a nerve with you people.  Because of how scared I am of Stray, I'll just say this:  Everyone here is right!  Journalists in EVERY OTHER AREA OF HUMAN EXISTENCE should be daring and independent and investigative.  But in gaming, they should be obedient little industry lapdogs.  That's my final word, I'm done with this thread.

Also:  I edited my above post to make it less political orientation-specific, so that Stray doesn't have to cry himself to sleep tonight. 

[schild]

Stop being such a dingdong. There was no investigation or independence here. They got leaked info from an insider. They asked Sony. Sony basically said, yes, now we ask that you keep quiet especially since we've given you thousands and thousands of dollars in free shit, just this once. And Kotaku said "Hey Fuck You Guy."

What the hell is wrong with you? Is the situation complicated or something?

[stray]

It's not about the story hitting the nerve, Triforcer. You being a fucking a troll is what's hitting a nerve. You were making this shit about yourself, no different than what SirBruce used to do.

[Phildo]

  Wow, something in this story really hit a nerve with you people.  Because of how scared I am of Stray, I'll just say this:  Everyone here is right!  Journalists in EVERY OTHER AREA OF HUMAN EXISTENCE should be daring and independent and investigative.  But in gaming, they should be obedient little industry lapdogs.

Daring and independant, fine.  Flagrantly violating the trust of a company that you are supposed to be maintaining a working relationship with over something innocent, not so much.  Where is Kotaku's expose on the working conditions of Sony's factory laborers?  How about their hard-hitting insider report on farming of software jobs oversees?  Let's not beat around the bush here -- what they did was ignorant and inconsiderate, but in no way an attempt to stick it to "The Man."

[stray]

For the record, I'm not so much defending the nature of the industry's press and product handling as I am just stating how it is. I've said numerous times how I wish this kind of stuff wasn't so secretive and timed with fanfare in the first place. But it is what it is.

[Strazos]

What possible difference does it make? The companies are the ones spending the money on the fanfare, so who cares.

[stray]

I don't care about the money spent on fanfare. Where'd you get that from?

I'm just saying that I wish more companies weren't so secretive about their information all the time (then you wouldn't have this rumor mongering crap). I don't expect Open Source levels of dev/user communication, but it'd be nice if more companies had more Inside Man mouthpieces that dealt with communities and offered more things to chew on for gamers. Not every product release has to be a "Wait till it's perfect, then drop the Bomb" scenario.

[Strazos]

What I mean is that the info you're referring to is going to come out in good time anyway. I don't see the point in trying to elicit stuff so people can think highly of themselves for getting the "ZOMG BIG SCOOP INFOZ!!!"

[stray]

You misunderstand me. I'm not talking about eliciting anything. I'm talking about companies beating these rumor sites at their own game by offering more information freely and gradually.

Basically, do more than just Press Releases and "Exclusive Previews". I mean, actually get out there and talk to people. Don't keep them in the dark all the time.

Could be with product features, could be with fixes and feature updates. If you have a fix in a firmware update for something, or just a some wanted feature additions, then just say it. Silence any worries sooner rather than later.

[DevilsAdvocate]

You misunderstand me. I'm not talking about eliciting anything. I'm talking about companies beating these rumor sites at their own game by offering more information freely and gradually.

Basically, do more than just Press Releases and "Exclusive Previews". I mean, actually get out there and talk to people. Don't keep them in the dark all the time.

Could be with product features, could be with fixes and feature updates. If you have a fix in a firmware update for something, or just a some wanted feature additions, then just say it. Silence any worries sooner rather than later.

I posit that they don't do so much talking to the community about what they are doing because that info gets back to their competitors. The timing is not only to allow them to wow and dazzle you, but also to keep that super secret code update/company partnership/sponsorship/whatever in their hip pocket so their competitors don't know about it until the last moment.

I am certain there is enough word passed around that some of this stuff is sniffed out by their competition, but they still want to hold back as much as possible so they can be first to market with their new innovation or what have you.

[Stephen Zepp]

I don't care about the money spent on fanfare. Where'd you get that from?

I'm just saying that I wish more companies weren't so secretive about their information all the time (then you wouldn't have this rumor mongering crap). I don't expect Open Source levels of dev/user communication, but it'd be nice if more companies had more Inside Man mouthpieces that dealt with communities and offered more things to chew on for gamers. Not every product release has to be a "Wait till it's perfect, then drop the Bomb" scenario.

You don't think they do? Schild has more info about more "secret things" than you can possibly imagine ;)

The problem in a nutshell with what Kotaku did was he violated his source's trust...and any real journalist isn't going to be such a freaking idiot when it comes to the very meat of what his job is all about.

Anyone willing to lay odds on the chances of, say, Nintendo continuing to give Kotaku insider information that let's them beat others to the punch?

[Llava]

Not every product release has to be a "Wait till it's perfect, then drop the Bomb" scenario.

Well, yeah, they do.  Cause, as you may have noticed, gamers (nerds, actually... actually, humans) as a whole tend to be a pretty knee-jerk, reactionary bunch.  So when a game is still in testing, and info comes out that they're planning to hire Jack Black to provide the voice overs for the Green Lantern instead of Phil Lamar, or that when you die you can't play again for another hour, or that there will be 2000 levels and they don't expect anyone to get to level 100 within the first 5 years of release, people flip out, there are protests, boycotts, cries that the company has betrayed mankind, and about 4 people in the middle of the crowd mumbling "Um, it's still in testing, that could change..."

On some level, all that publicity is good.  But I do believe that it does more harm, and instantly sets up an atmosphere of antagonism between players and the developers.

[Valmorian]

I don't get it.  So what if this was leaked?  If Sony wanted it to remain a rumor, then they could have just said "No Comment".  Big deal. 

Why should the average gamer care if the game sites don't get "super secret info" that they aren't allowed to reveal?

[stray]

I don't get it.  So what if this was leaked?  If Sony wanted it to remain a rumor, then they could have just said "No Comment".  Big deal.

They say No Comment when they don't mind info being leaked a little, or if it's not that important -- Or something they don't want anyone to know at all or ever. Or simply, because it isn't true.

This, otoh, was news they wanted to fully handle themselves next week. That's why they actively persuaded Kotaku to not publish it. They have an entire game conference built around these kind of announcements. But instead of getting a hint about how important it was to Sony, Kotaku willingly ended an relationship for personal gain. Kotaku was well within their rights to do this, of course, but there would be consequences (as there would be consequences when you go behind anyone's back).

The real asshole-ish thing they did is not accept the consequences. They posted Sony's response and tried to paint them like they were in the wrong for pulling their privileges.

[Furiously]

I think it's Phil LaMarr. And please god no!!!!!!!!!

[Margalis]

My friend who works at S-E sometimes tells me things that aren't public yet and asks me not to tell other people. I don't. Even when it is silly stuff that is not a big deal anyway.

This is not "investigative journalism." The public doesn't need to know. Reporting rumors from anon sources is the worst kind of journalism.

There wasn't some coverup that needed exposing. This isn't Watergate or secret European prisons. I disagree that gaming info isn't new - it is news but this type of thing is not journalism or news reporting.

Beating out a press release is not a service to the readers. It isn't integrity. It is information that would have been released by Sony eventually were it true, and people waiting a bit isn't a problem.

This is news in the same way as what I had for dinner is news.

[Trippy]

Reporting rumors from anon sources is the worst kind of journalism.

Wow that's just mind-boggling to hear people say that.

[Koyasha]

Personally my take on this is that Kotaku was perhaps stupid and asshole-ish to do what they did.  Sony, on the other hand, was stupider.  Their first making threats to Kotaku to try and get them not to print the story, then going ahead and un-inviting them from various events is something that pretty obviously was a poor decision.  Not that it wasn't well within their rights to do, and maybe it was even the appropriate response - but it wasn't a good response, because it should have been pretty obvious that they would be painted as the bad guys, 'trying to keep information secret' and 'disrespecting freedom of the press' and all kinds of crap.

In my opinion the appropriate response would have been to say and do nothing.  Anything that Kotaku was already invited to goes ahead, but after that...pretty much drop any kind of relationship with them at all.  But there's no need to tell them, and there's especially no need to un-invite them or ask for things like the return free shit they've already been given.  That especially makes them look bad.  I think the folks at Kotaku would have gotten the message pretty clearly if after this stunt, no more special offers or relationship with Sony came their way.

[schild]

THIS ISN'T A FREEDOM OF THE PRESS ISSUE. THIS IS A "BACKSTABBING FRIENDS" ISSUE.

Why can no one see that?

[Dundee]

The readers at slashdot get it at least. If you look at the comments there they are at least 50% pro-Sony.

Kotaku has a right to print what they want, and Sony has a right to revoke special access.

I don't like the way those words, special access, irritate some part of my brain.

Setting aside what Kotaku posted, if failure to comply with a company's wishes results in you not being at their media event, what does that say about those who are there?

[stray]

Their first making threats to Kotaku to try and get them not to print the story

Umm....They didn't do that. Hell, even Kotaku doesn't try to say that.

Sony asked us not to publish the story, first nicely, then not so much.

Link

McWhertor called Sony up and asked about it. Sony asked politely to not go with the story. Nothing more, nothing less.

Next thing they know, the story is on Kotaku's front page.

THEN Sony writes back and basically says "Fuck you, you're out. Give us back our stuff."

THEN Kotaku tells the Internet "Lol, look guys. They want their shit back. Down with the Man!"


Hopefully that's the last time the actual story even needs to be explained.

[Llava]

THIS ISN'T A FREEDOM OF THE PRESS ISSUE. THIS IS A "BACKSTABBING FRIENDS" ISSUE.

Why can no one see that?

 :-(

I saw it...


And yeah, I think it's LaMarr, I just was too lazy to IMDB for spelling for a quick example.