Carbine Studios' "Wildstar"

[Sjofn]

Oh, right, Ghambit is crazy. How did I forget?

I suppose I need to respect the NDA myself, too. 

[sam, an eggplant]

He's played the game, he knows what he's talking about. He just has a fairly unusual definition of "combat".

There are so many people streaming for hours on end, including the devs, that you can discuss wildstar pretty openly without violating NDA. Just don't talk about your personal experiences.

[Rendakor]

Which doesn't include healing or crowd control, apparently.

[Sjofn]

He's played the game, he knows what he's talking about. He just has a fairly unusual definition of "combat".

I'm in beta too. I do consider healing/support/CC/etc as part of "combat," so that's the main component of my "wat," I suppose. Because when I'm rolling around on my medic, and get into combat, even if I have him specced for support, it's not a puzzle. It's a fight. There's not a class in the game where you can avoid combat, which is why I consider them all "combat-oriented." You can never avoid fighting. You must fight if you want to level. Whether I am using my dubstep paddles to do damage or prevent it is irrelevant.

[Ghambit]

Combat in any classically-styled rpg is really just an illusion.  Smoke and mirrors generated via elaborate game theory and graphics (and prior to that, walls of text).  No different then any other thematic-layer you may place upon any generic game system...  a Jane Austen game for instance, negotiating the magna carta via play-by-post, whatever.  We could technically call that "combat" to eh?  They're all just puzzle-games.

Oh, right, Ghambit is crazy. How did I forget?

 

[Lakov_Sanite]

That's about as deep as an inflatable kiddie pool.

[Nebu]

Combat in any classically-styled rpg is really just an illusion.  Smoke and mirrors generated via elaborate game theory and graphics (and prior to that, walls of text).  No different then any other thematic-layer you may place upon any generic game system...  a Jane Austen game for instance, negotiating the magna carta via play-by-post, whatever.  We could technically call that "combat" to eh?  They're all just puzzle-games.

I saw these exact same posts on the 'Tale in the Desert' forums when people complained that it didn't have combat. 

[Lantyssa]

I don't know what you're smoking, because it's not like Wildstar has invented some kind of alternate MMO 'not-really-combat' combat system.

[Pennilenko]

Does it violate the NDA for somebody to say that they un-installed this?

[Paelos]

Does it violate the NDA for somebody to say that they un-installed this?

I think breathing violates the NDA these days, the way they are written.

My view is don't say anything about the game, why you are or aren't excited about it, or anything detailed about opinions. I don't think they give a shit if people say they are or aren't excited about release.

[Simond]

Does it violate the NDA for somebody to say that they un-installed this?

The Secret of NDAs: The NDA only matters if you're worried about the impact of your future gameplay. If you're not going to play it anyway then breaking the NDA is a headache for mods. not you.

[Trippy]

Unless you get banned.

[Threash]

Once again, we don't need to do all this hinting here, anybody who gives even one iota of a shit can go to a million different places and find out exactly what they want. 

[Lantyssa]

And it's not going to be the massive train wreck that is ESO, so why even go there?

[Paelos]

And it's not going to be the massive train wreck that is ESO, so why even go there?

Nope, it will be fine. Divisive, but fine.

[Typhon]

I DISAGREE!!!1!  ... oh wait... DAMMIT!





I'm not in the beta, I was making a divisive joke

[Simond]

Unless you get banned.

Which is something the mods do! 

Non-Beta-Having Realtalk in response to the above few posts: It's going to be Rift 2.0 - everyone's going to love the new shiny, applaud about how well the devs have made a new spin on the old diku game, stuck with WoW ideas where they work, changed them where they don't, blah blah blah and then quit playing within a month or two (and go back to WoW a couple of months after that/when the expansion hits).

[Ingmar]

I don't think it will be Rift 2.0. I'm not sure what it will be, but a competently executed game in a cardboard cutout paint-by-numbers incredibly boring world is not in the cards, simply because they appear to be a billion miles away from bland with their world design and look.

[Senses]

I think this MMO is made for 90's kids.  Its got their wacky cartoonish look all over it.

[Hoax]

I don't think it will be Rift 2.0. I'm not sure what it will be, but a competently executed game in a cardboard cutout paint-by-numbers incredibly boring world is not in the cards, simply because they appear to be a billion miles away from bland with their world design and look.

I would not be so sure of that. This is looking and feeling a lot like Rift2.0 to me. When I have looked in on a stream I see something that could very much leave that bland boring taste in my mouth after a week or two of playing it.

[Sjofn]

I think in Ingmar's case, what he will decide to hate about Wildstar will be completely different than what he decided to hate about Rift.

[Rasix]

Or GW2.

[Falconeer]

they appear to be a billion miles away from bland with their world design and look.

Screenshots and videos don't look that good. I don't like their style but characters and mobs so far at least tried to make an impression. The world -based on the little I've seen in screenshots and authorized streams- is totally failing any possible expectation. Not meant as a challenge but as a serious request: can anybody point me to any legally public screenshot that shows an original, interesting world? Or that doesn't look exactly like a WoW zone? Cause Google seems to agree with me.

[luckton]

Well what kind of "unique" world are you looking for?  At this point, after 30-40 years of sci-fi/fantasy development (you know, beyond gaming), I'd say it's getting kinda rough to come up with something truly unique and visionary.  We're already been desensitized on so many levels that I'm surprised it doesn't just all blur together at some point.

I don't think Wildstar's out to re-invent the wheel.  They just want to take the various good parts of previous wheels and make an epic/refined one, much like WoW did with EQ/DAoC/other inconsequential 1st gen MMOs.  Sure, it's the same strategy that Rift tried to do, but they fell short on QoL features at launch that people were kinda already expecting to be there.  I think Wildstar has learned that lesson and many others.

Call it Rift 2.0 if you want, but that combined with the sci-fi setting is hitting the right markers with me.

[Falconeer]

No, I see your point. Let's say I am more interested in understanding what qualifies generic fantasy worlds as bland or the opposite of bland these days. WoW zones were defintely, hugely different from EQ ones. Or any other MMORPG and fantasy world up to that point. It wasn't for me, but they were absolutely not bland. But is it all about being original? I don't think so, as you pointed out it's realistically getting harder and harder to come up with an original world for these kind of games.
So what made Rift's world bland and Wildstar's not-bland? Again, considering they had sci-fi to add to the mix I was expecting much much more, but the screens and the few zones you can see in the authorized streams are extremely bland to me, and that's why I was asking to be pointed to something non bland to look at.
I hope the released product will show some more personality (...than what I've seen so far. Which is admittedly very little).

[Ghambit]

So what made Rift's world bland and Wildstar's not-bland? Again, considering they had sci-fi to add to the mix I was expecting much much more, but the screens and the few zones you can see in the authorized streams are extremely bland to me, and that's why I was asking to be pointed to something non bland to look at.
I hope the released product will show some more personality (...than what I've seen so far. Which is admittedly very little).

Do you not have full beta access now?  Wtf are you talking about?
Gimme it back if you're not gonna use it.   

Also, I've long since given up trying to judge an RPG by starter zone / 10-levels.   And mind you, Wildstar is not a small game ala Rift.  For me; characters, lore, quest design, and game mechanics are more important up until you arrive at the main hubs of the game, wherein "vibe" matters a bit more.

[Falconeer]

I am not supposed to talk about beta (and I am using it! But I am just not high level yet). So I've scouted around the net for legal material of higher level zones.

Wildstar is not a small game ala Rift.  For me; characters, lore, quest design, and game mechanics are more important up until you arrive at the main hubs of the game, wherein "vibe" matters a bit more.

I see what you mean. I agree and that's why for example I believe that could be the only redeeming quality of... The Elder Scrolls Online actually.
Anyway, I never thought Rift was "small", and never really got the "bland" comments about it. It was as guilty as 99% other simjilar titles in my opinion.

[Samprimary]

Combat in any classically-styled rpg is really just an illusion.  Smoke and mirrors generated via elaborate game theory and graphics (and prior to that, walls of text).  No different then any other thematic-layer you may place upon any generic game system...  a Jane Austen game for instance, negotiating the magna carta via play-by-post, whatever.  We could technically call that "combat" to eh?  They're all just puzzle-games.

Uh, so, going back to when you were saying 'just pick a non combat oriented class' you meant like a class whose combat mechanics you subjectively interpreted as not being combat because it's all just an illusion of combat.

By your own logic* is it even possible to pick a combat class then



*

[Ingmar]

they appear to be a billion miles away from bland with their world design and look.

Screenshots and videos don't look that good. I don't like their style but characters and mobs so far at least tried to make an impression. The world -based on the little I've seen in screenshots and authorized streams- is totally failing any possible expectation. Not meant as a challenge but as a serious request: can anybody point me to any legally public screenshot that shows an original, interesting world? Or that doesn't look exactly like a WoW zone? Cause Google seems to agree with me.

I don't think it looks all that much like WoW, other than the fact that they both tend to use exaggerated body types on the models and aren't afraid to use the whole color palette. But more than just that, the world, characters, and cultures have personality, where basically nothing in Rift did. It isn't just about visuals, it's about the setting as a whole. I'm probably not using the terms how video games expect me to but when I say 'world design' I'm including all the lore elements, everything that would be the world fluff in a PNP setting book.

[Threash]

It looks exactly like WoW but with 10 years of improvement.  If they made WoW 2 this is what it would look like,  minus the space shit.  Maybe with the space shit.

[Sjofn]

I cannot remember a single NPC from Rift. Not a blessed one. Wildstar has NPCs I will actually remember.

I dimly recall that rifts were the "different" thing about its Generic Fantasy Setting, but I don't remember why they happen. I don't remember anything specific about the races as far as their history in the world went (I do remember one side were a buncha TIME TRAVELERS though! Because the other side ruined everything but don't actually know that or some shit?). While there are parts of Nexus' lore I am sure I will immediately forget all about once I stop playing it, there are other aspects I will remember for longer (why the Mordesh exist, why the aurin loathe the chua, etc).

Wildstar's lore isn't super award winning or anything, but it's stickier in my brain than Rift ever was. It's sort of like the difference in worlds between CoX and CO. I remember a lot of the factions in CoX, remembered what motivated them, and gave a shit about their little arcs. The only faction I remember from CO are the Quebec seperatists (or whatever) and that's just because I was amused Canada was a zone.

[Nebu]

The only thing I remember about Rift were the souls, the dungeons, and the PvP.  If Wildstar can top that, then I'll be happy.

[sam, an eggplant]

Wildstar has the exact same graphic style as WoW. Same exaggerated features, colorful but low-resolution, focused on art and style over visual fidelity. The subject matter happens to be pulp sci-fi rather than high fantasy. The whole world looks like the gnome and goblin areas in WoW, lots of weird machines with glowing lights and cutesy animations, tons of little doodads cluttering up the place. I'm a fan of Wildstar's art. Can't say anything about the gameplay, obviously.

[Sjofn]

The goblin areas are way dirtier and polluted looking than anything I've tripped over in Wildstar. 

[Ghambit]

Wtf, they just gave me two more beta keys.      Why??  I have no idea.  Are they lurking this thread or something?   I'll give out one, and it's already spoken for to Rasix.  I need to verify my account isn't fubar or something.  If all is well, I may have two extra.