Will DDO survive the April attrition as free months expire?

[voblat]

You have nothing.  I recommend taking your act to the IGN boards.  I'm sure it will play very well there.

I posted quite a few links relating to a pay per information company where they could get the information they needed,
and another on the stock performance of Atari. I would openly post the information from NPD, but my company pays the exhorbitant subscription rate and since a couple fellow co-workers post/read on this site I can not openly do so. Now of course the information on Atari's stock prices is circumstantial at best admittedly...I noticed that you yourself have yet to post any evidence of any type relating to your claim.

You havent posted anything substantial either.

And for the record, I dont htink there is a single person here that gives enough of a shit about DDO sub numbers (which cant be accuratly assessed from box sales anyway) to pay money to find out.

Thats the whole point.
Most people here , me included,wont even pay to find out how shit the game is.

I just object to your ;I know more than you so Ill call you names' bullshit you came here with, when YOU are just as guilty of nonsensical claims as the other poster.

And for the record, Atari stock has been in severe decline for 6months + prior to DDO's release, and again is no indicator of anything.

[Broughden]

I can't believe you guys have argued for 2 pages about this.

Broughden, I think I speak for everyone when I say "shut the fuck up and paste the information you have or get out."

Everyone who participates in SUBSCRIPTION NUMBERS ARGUMENTS should be ashamed.

THERE IS NO 'US' YOU STUPID COCK SHUT THE FUCK UP.

So because I challenge Slog's claim of over 100k units sold retail I have to bear the entire burden of proof while he gets a free pass?
Hmmm wow that seems fair.
As I said I posted where the information can be obtained. Whether you do or not is up to you.

[Arthur_Parker]

Interesting that DDO has made over 100k sales, can you ask if that figure includes Europe?

Arthur,

Slog is the only one making this claim and has yet to post any proof of it. Despite us repeatedly asking him for such.

He quoted a dev to provide proof plus my question was addressed to him.  I have no clue who you are.

[Broughden]

You have nothing.  I recommend taking your act to the IGN boards.  I'm sure it will play very well there.

I posted quite a few links relating to a pay per information company where they could get the information they needed,
and another on the stock performance of Atari. I would openly post the information from NPD, but my company pays the exhorbitant subscription rate and since a couple fellow co-workers post/read on this site I can not openly do so. Now of course the information on Atari's stock prices is circumstantial at best admittedly...I noticed that you yourself have yet to post any evidence of any type relating to your claim.

You havent posted anything substantial either.

And for the record, I dont htink there is a single person here that gives enough of a shit about DDO sub numbers (which cant be accuratly assessed from box sales anyway) to pay money to find out.

Thats the whole point.
Most people here , me included,wont even pay to find out how shit the game is.

I just object to your ;I know more than you so Ill call you names' bullshit you came here with, when YOU are just as guilty of nonsensical claims as the other poster.

And for the record, Atari stock has been in severe decline for 6months + prior to DDO's release, and again is no indicator of anything.

We arent arguing sub numbers. Slog and myself are arguing retail unit sales numbers, or at least I thought we were.
Lastly, you are correct Atari's stock price is circumstantial evidence at best. However.....
Their sales of DDO units SHOULD have been included in their 4th Quarter 2005 quarterly financial report. If they had had substantial sales it would have boosted the profitability of the company and we would have seen a corresponding rise in their stock price. We didnt. So one can logically assume that no such substantial sales were reported, and their stock continued to lose value...which it did after their quarterly earnings statement was released.

[Shockeye]

Interesting that DDO has made over 100k sales, can you ask if that figure includes Europe?

Arthur,

Slog is the only one making this claim and has yet to post any proof of it. Despite us repeatedly asking him for such.

He quoted a dev to provide proof plus my question was addressed to him.  I have no clue who you are.

Actually he quotes an unknown entity from IRC.

[d4rkj3di]

That doesn't necesarily mean its doing bad, hell wow had a free trial.  I played DDO during beta and while i liked it fine it never felt MMORPGy enough to be worth a monthly fee.

WoW had a free-trial less than 2 months after launch?  They had the 10-day buddy codes for the Collector's Edition, but that's all I remember that close to release.

WoW's free trial started around 6 months ago, after they had already crushed the throats of every other MMO.

[Trippy]

So because I challenge Slog's claim of over 100k units sold retail I have to bear the entire burden of proof while he gets a free pass?
Hmmm wow that seems fair.
As I said I posted where the information can be obtained. Whether you do or not is up to you.

You already seconded slog's claim of 100K units sold, so why don't you just shut the fuck up now? Or can you not add 50K (presales) + 50K (your claim of March sales) together?

[Broughden]

Interesting that DDO has made over 100k sales, can you ask if that figure includes Europe?

Arthur,

Slog is the only one making this claim and has yet to post any proof of it. Despite us repeatedly asking him for such.

He quoted a dev to provide proof plus my question was addressed to him.  I have no clue who you are.

NVM Beaten by Shockeye.

[Broughden]

So because I challenge Slog's claim of over 100k units sold retail I have to bear the entire burden of proof while he gets a free pass?
Hmmm wow that seems fair.
As I said I posted where the information can be obtained. Whether you do or not is up to you.

You already seconded slog's claim of 100K units sold, so why don't you just shut the fuck up now? Or can you not add 50K (presales) + 50K (your claim of March sales) together?

Because
The 50k presales does not include how many were cancelled (and we all know EBgames and other retailers offering pre-sales were inundated with cancellations.
At best? I think they had maybe 30k actual presales US/Canade wide. WHY do I make this assumption? Because their were ONLY 11k initial forum accounts created within the first week of release.

[voblat]

We arent arguing sub numbers. Slog and myself are arguing retail unit sales numbers, or at least I thought we were.
Lastly, you are correct Atari's stock price is circumstantial evidence at best. However.....
Their sales of DDO units SHOULD have been included in their 4th Quarter 2005 quarterly financial report. If they had had substantial sales it would have boosted the profitability of the company and we would have seen a corresponding rise in their stock price. We didnt. So one can logically assume that no such substantial sales were reported, and their stock continued to lose value...which it did after their quarterly earnings statement was released.

Do yourself a favour, stick to making up bullshit about games and keep away from share prices.
Heres some education.

DDO is a planned release, both the expenditure and income for that release would be factored into the companies net value a year ago, the share price was never going to react to a slightly increased profit of DDO , in any way shape or form.

The price is currently struggling, and has been, because of a short term history of bad investment, and a projection of profitability that doesnt sit well with investors, again, mainly due to ill advised expenditure.

And before you start arguing again, I make my living on the LSE.

[Broughden]

You know Im not really understanding this.  

A) Am I going to release NPD data which they charge for on an open forum and risk being reprimanded at work or worse have my company's account yanked from NPD? No.  But the information is their for any who want to have it.

B) Given the above problem have I tried to provide the best circumstantial evidence I can? Yes through stock reports and financial analysis.

C) Meanwhile Slog has posted nothing more than an IRC chat log he purports to include testimony from a Dev at Turbine.

Yet Im the one getting all the shit here....hmmmm. BTW I love my fun new forum nickname!

[Trippy]

So because I challenge Slog's claim of over 100k units sold retail I have to bear the entire burden of proof while he gets a free pass?
Hmmm wow that seems fair.
As I said I posted where the information can be obtained. Whether you do or not is up to you.

You already seconded slog's claim of 100K units sold, so why don't you just shut the fuck up now? Or can you not add 50K (presales) + 50K (your claim of March sales) together?

Because
The 50k presales does not include how many were cancelled (and we all know Ebay and other retailers offering pre-sales were inundated with cancellations.
At best? I think they had maybe 30k actual presales US/Canade wide. WHY do I make this assumption? Because their were ONLY 11k initial forum accounts created within the first week of release.

Well now you are just making shit up too.

[Broughden]

We arent arguing sub numbers. Slog and myself are arguing retail unit sales numbers, or at least I thought we were.
Lastly, you are correct Atari's stock price is circumstantial evidence at best. However.....
Their sales of DDO units SHOULD have been included in their 4th Quarter 2005 quarterly financial report. If they had had substantial sales it would have boosted the profitability of the company and we would have seen a corresponding rise in their stock price. We didnt. So one can logically assume that no such substantial sales were reported, and their stock continued to lose value...which it did after their quarterly earnings statement was released.

Do yourself a favour, stick to making up bullshit about games and keep away from share prices.
Heres some education.

DDO is a planned release, both the expenditure and income for that release would be factored into the companies net value a year ago, the share price was never going to react to a slightly increased profit of DDO , in any way shape or form.

The price is currently struggling, and has been, because of a short term history of bad investment, and a projection of profitability that doesnt sit well with investors, again, mainly due to ill advised expenditure.

And before you start arguing again, I make my living on the LSE.

Actually you would need to check their 2005 4th quarter reports to know when the sales from DDO was factored into their net value. Without any concrete release date a year out I would highly suspect that there was no way for Atari to project or report any financial earnings from the sale of the game to US and Canadian retailers a year in advance. No retailer would have been placing their orders that far out in the current entertainment game software industry.

BTW You are based in London? I absolutely love that town though I detest flying into Heathrow....the airport is HUGE!

[Broughden]

So because I challenge Slog's claim of over 100k units sold retail I have to bear the entire burden of proof while he gets a free pass?
Hmmm wow that seems fair.
As I said I posted where the information can be obtained. Whether you do or not is up to you.

You already seconded slog's claim of 100K units sold, so why don't you just shut the fuck up now? Or can you not add 50K (presales) + 50K (your claim of March sales) together?

Because
The 50k presales does not include how many were cancelled (and we all know Ebay and other retailers offering pre-sales were inundated with cancellations.
At best? I think they had maybe 30k actual presales US/Canade wide. WHY do I make this assumption? Because their were ONLY 11k initial forum accounts created within the first week of release.

Well now you are just making shit up too.

Where? The 11k figure is accurate. You can gleen the information from the DDO boards by checking when people activated their forum accounts.

[Morat20]

You know Im not really understanding this.  

A) Am I going to release NPD data which they charge for on an open forum and risk being reprimanded at work or worse have my company's account yanked from NPD? No.  But the information is their for any who want to have it.

B) Given the above problem have I tried to provide the best circumstantial evidence I can? Yes through stock reports and financial analysis.

C) Meanwhile Slog has posted nothing more than an IRC chat log he purports to include testimony from a Dev at Turbine.

Yet Im the one getting all the shit here....hmmmm. BTW I love my fun new forum nickname!

Did someone actually accuse you of being a shill for NPD -- is that what the nickname is from? Because fucking stupid if so -- NPD shills would target people with the cash to pay for their services. Probably not a good idea to quote proprietary information as evidence -- although fundamantally it's identical to Devs talking (in a roundabout fashion) about sub numbers and churn in past games, except they've got more trust on that issue because people know they had access that data, and don't know if you really have access to NPD data -- or aren't even sure what it is or how reliable it is.

[voblat]

Actually you would need to check their 2005 4th quarter reports to know when the sales from DDO was factored into their net value. Without any concrete release date a year out I would highly suspect that there was no way for Atari to project or report any financial earnings from the sale of the game to US and Canadian retailers a year in advance. No retailer would have been placing their orders that far out in the current entertainment game software industry.

BTW You are based in London? I absolutely love that town though I detest flying into Heathrow....the airport is HUGE!

You miss the point. The price wont rise without people buying the share. As it stands currently, Atari is not an attractive investment, to either professional or private investors, nor even short term day traders.

The reason is simple, Atari as an entity is badly mismanaged , also you need to understand something fundemental about MMO's, in that the income from box sales isnt going to offset initial development costs. regardless of what sales have transpired, DDO wont be in profit as a project for a long time (given how poor it seems, read :never).
There are others here who have more insight into MMO finances, but I would guess that the average 100k sub mmo would be working on a 3 year turnaround on initial investment.

Yes, London is nice to visit, which I do a couple of times a week,for the most part its a shithole to live in however, as are most capitol cities throughout the world.

Im lucky in that I can choose not to live there and, via direct access, still do my job. I actually live on the border of England and Wales, which is good for mountain biking in my more energetic moments .

[Trippy]

Where? The 11k figure is accurate. You can gleen the information from the DDO boards by checking when people activated their forum accounts.

Basing the number of order cancellations on how many people created forum accounts is "making shit up" unless you can show the research that establishes the relationship between the two.

[Broughden]

You know Im not really understanding this.  

A) Am I going to release NPD data which they charge for on an open forum and risk being reprimanded at work or worse have my company's account yanked from NPD? No.  But the information is their for any who want to have it.

B) Given the above problem have I tried to provide the best circumstantial evidence I can? Yes through stock reports and financial analysis.

C) Meanwhile Slog has posted nothing more than an IRC chat log he purports to include testimony from a Dev at Turbine.

Yet Im the one getting all the shit here....hmmmm. BTW I love my fun new forum nickname!

Did someone actually accuse you of being a shill for NPD -- is that what the nickname is from? Because fucking stupid if so -- NPD shills would target people with the cash to pay for their services. Probably not a good idea to quote proprietary information as evidence -- although fundamantally it's identical to Devs talking (in a roundabout fashion) about sub numbers and churn in past games, except they've got more trust on that issue because people know they had access that data, and don't know if you really have access to NPD data -- or aren't even sure what it is or how reliable it is.

Morat....admittedly I have no idea where the nickname is from. I know one of the moderators called me a cockmonkey earlier in the thread but Im not sure what the "shill" reference is for. I agree if they think Im some salesman for NPD or something then they are "fucking stupid."  The subscriptions to their informational market reports cost thousands of dollars. My company has access but I would NOT expect some individual to pay for that no matter how into gaming he might be.
As for posters not knowing what NPD is on this forum that actually surprises me!  
I thought the people here were knowledgable about the gaming industry which is why I started reading the forums and finally registered myself in order to post.

Every month and week professional industry media outlets report the sales of games on various platforms to include PC, Xbow, Playstation, Gameboy etc etc. You can view reports such as this at Gameamp which is just one of a myriad of websites that report them. These weekly sales charts are put together by Chartspot. Chartspot in turn gathers its raw market research data from NPD. Any poster in this thread or the forums could do a simple Google search to confirm everything I just said.

[Broughden]

Where? The 11k figure is accurate. You can gleen the information from the DDO boards by checking when people activated their forum accounts.

Basing the number of order cancellations on how many people created forum accounts is "making shit up" unless you can show the research that establishes the relationship between the two.

No its called making an educated assumption based on the prevailing information available, a hypothesis. As a matter of fact to date I dont think they have even 50k forum subscribers.

[Trippy]

Where? The 11k figure is accurate. You can gleen the information from the DDO boards by checking when people activated their forum accounts.

Basing the number of order cancellations on how many people created forum accounts is "making shit up" unless you can show the research that establishes the relationship between the two.

No its called making an educated assumption based on the prevailing information available, a hypothesis. As a matter of fact to date I dont think they have even 50k forum subscribers.

No, you are pulling numbers out of your ass. You are claiming a 3 to 1 forum subscription rate (30K preorders = 11K forum subscribers) based on nada. I could just as easily claim a 5 to 1 forum subscription rate and you would have no way of proving me wrong since we're both just making shit up.

[slog]

how is this guy not banned?  Ooops...wrong website.  My bad.

[shiznitz]

As long as things remain civil, why ban anyone? Sometimes it is in fact fun to watch a person dig deeper and deeper holes and not realize they forgot to bring a ladder.

[Broughden]

Actually you would need to check their 2005 4th quarter reports to know when the sales from DDO was factored into their net value. Without any concrete release date a year out I would highly suspect that there was no way for Atari to project or report any financial earnings from the sale of the game to US and Canadian retailers a year in advance. No retailer would have been placing their orders that far out in the current entertainment game software industry.

BTW You are based in London? I absolutely love that town though I detest flying into Heathrow....the airport is HUGE!

You miss the point. The price wont rise without people buying the share. As it stands currently, Atari is not an attractive investment, to either professional or private investors, nor even short term day traders.

The reason is simple, Atari as an entity is badly mismanaged , also you need to understand something fundemental about MMO's, in that the income from box sales isnt going to offset initial development costs. regardless of what sales have transpired, DDO wont be in profit as a project for a long time (given how poor it seems, read :never).
There are others here who have more insight into MMO finances, but I would guess that the average 100k sub mmo would be working on a 3 year turnaround on initial investment.

Yes, London is nice to visit, which I do a couple of times a week,for the most part its a shithole to live in however, as are most capitol cities throughout the world.

Im lucky in that I can choose not to live there and, via direct access, still do my job. I actually live on the border of England and Wales, which is good for mountain biking in my more energetic moments .

Thats a beautiful area! I love Wales in particular. Have you ever been down to Heresford or up to Stockford? Man I could tell you some stories about some guys I knew from Stockford. When they were drunk you had no hope of understanding what they were saying.

As for the whole Atari stock matter...
Yes I am in business and understand the basics of stock prices rising and falling based on sales, perceived risk, stock analysis and so forth. As for any knowledge of the contract worked out between Turbine the developer of DDO and Atari it's North American publisher, I do not of course have access to the particulars. However from what I read Turbine assumed all cost of development and recruited VC in order to do this. In fact there were a number of industry media reports on them receiving $30 million in VC funds last year.
If Atari was in fact acting only as a publishing house, which all available indications point to, then their primary means of financial gain would be from sales of boxed units unless Turbine cut them in for a share of the subscription fees, which I highly doubt.

In fact here is an article discussing how each quarter's profit is driven by software titles released WITH IN that quarter: HERE
The significant part of the article to our discussion reads-

Net revenue for the quarter ended December 31, 2005, was $100.8 million versus $156.4 million in the prior year's comparable quarter, reflecting the Company's release of fewer titles in this quarter compared to the prior year. Publishing net revenue was $82.4 million, compared to $137.9 million in the prior year, and was primarily driven by the release of Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi (PS2), Dragon Ball Z: Super Sonic Warriors 2 (NDS), The Matrix: Path of Neo (PS2, Xbox and PC), and Atari Flashback 2 (Plug-and-Play). Distribution revenue was $18.4 million versus $18.5 million in the comparable year-earlier period.

Oh and I was right about them not reporting revenue from DDO until fiscal 2006. A statement from the company can be found HERE
The part relevant to our discussion says-

-For Fiscal 2006 ending March 31, 2006: Pirates! (Xbox), Boiling Point (PC), Dragon Ball GT:Transformation (GBA), Dragonshard (PC), Dungeons and Dragons Online (PC), etc etc.

[Broughden]

As long as things remain civil, why ban anyone? Sometimes it is in fact fun to watch a person dig deeper and deeper holes and not realize they forgot to bring a ladder.

Where am I digging a hole?

Lets go down the list...

A) Slog claims there are more than 100k units of DDO sold retail and has STILL NOT provided ANY evidence.

B) Voblat claims Atari would have claimed profit from DDO #1 a year ago and #2 possibly based on subscription rates....my post above proves both of those claims wrong FROM ATARI PRESS RELEASES.

C) No one on here even seems to know what NPD market reports are even though the posters are supposed to be knowledgable about the gaming industry....how is this exactly my fault??? 

D) The ONLY assumption I have made has been 30k initial presales from Atari, based on 11k initial forum subscribers within the first week of release. Now I BELIEVE there is better information out there on that number and am attempting to find it....and post it to you all.



Its not my fault I have to educate forum readers on
A) Market research companies within the software gaming industry
B) How and when profits by game software publshing companies are reported
C) Argue against someone who says "X" and yet Im the only one who supposedly has to prove "X" isnt true. NO ONE else has called him on "X".
This might actaully be a better conversation or debate if I didnt have to continue to prove BASIC FACTS that people knowledgable of the industry should know!

[Murgos]

C) No one on here even seems to know what NPD market reports are even though the posters are supposed to be knowledgable about the gaming industry....how is this exactly my fault??? 

I'm pretty sure I made the only inferences possible with regards to your link back on the last page.

[squirrel]

I can't believe you guys have argued for 2 pages about this.

Broughden, I think I speak for everyone when I say "shut the fuck up and paste the information you have or get out."

Everyone who participates in SUBSCRIPTION NUMBERS ARGUMENTS should be ashamed.

THERE IS NO 'US' YOU STUPID COCK SHUT THE FUCK UP.

Seriously. For someone who keeps harping on evidence he sure can't fucking produce any besides - 'PAY FOR THE REPORT LOLZORWTF?'

I smell a shill as well.

[Trippy]

A) Slog claims there are more than 100k units of DDO sold retail and has STILL NOT provided ANY evidence.

That's cause your own claims agree with his. I don't understand why you are still talking about this.

C) No one on here even seems to know what NPD market reports are even though the posters are supposed to be knowledgable about the gaming industry....how is this exactly my fault??? 

There are plenty of us who know who NPD is (you can search on my name and "NPD" if you like, I even posted a link to some NPD charts earlier) and I have no problem with the 50K number you say is from the March NPD report (it's a little lower than my educated guess but not by much) though did you actually add up all the different DDO SKUs to get that number?

[voblat]

As for the whole Atari stock matter...
Yes I am in business and understand the basics of stock prices rising and falling based on sales, perceived risk, stock analysis and so forth. As for any knowledge of the contract worked out between Turbine the developer of DDO and Atari it's North American publisher, I do not of course have access to the particulars. However from what I read Turbine assumed all cost of development and recruited VC in order to do this. In fact there were a number of industry media reports on them receiving $30 million in VC funds last year.
If Atari was in fact acting only as a publishing house, which all available indications point to, then their primary means of financial gain would be from sales of boxed units unless Turbine cut them in for a share of the subscription fees, which I highly doubt.

In fact here is an article discussing how each quarter's profit is driven by software titles released WITH IN that quarter: HERE
The significant part of the article to our discussion reads-

Net revenue for the quarter ended December 31, 2005, was $100.8 million versus $156.4 million in the prior year's comparable quarter, reflecting the Company's release of fewer titles in this quarter compared to the prior year. Publishing net revenue was $82.4 million, compared to $137.9 million in the prior year, and was primarily driven by the release of Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi (PS2), Dragon Ball Z: Super Sonic Warriors 2 (NDS), The Matrix: Path of Neo (PS2, Xbox and PC), and Atari Flashback 2 (Plug-and-Play). Distribution revenue was $18.4 million versus $18.5 million in the comparable year-earlier period.

Oh and I was right about them not reporting revenue from DDO until fiscal 2006. A statement from the company can be found HERE
The part relevant to our discussion says-

-For Fiscal 2006 ending March 31, 2006: Pirates! (Xbox), Boiling Point (PC), Dragon Ball GT:Transformation (GBA), Dragonshard (PC), Dungeons and Dragons Online (PC), etc etc.

We seem to be heading off wildly from the genral topic of this thread ehre, which was just how shit DDO actualy is, but to continue the discussion.
I havent looked at the nature of funding or involvement from atari , I have ad no need to.

However, IF what you say is true, and that they are merely a distributor and not either suffuring the expenditure of development or launch, nor the predicted (theoretical here) , subsequent profit , then that merely reinforce my initial statement.

Atari is a company with the very real threat of bankruptcy hanging over them, DDO is merely a niche game, there is no way the income from DDO in your scenario was ever going to overcome the bankruptcy threat, therefore the results of DDO sales , good or bad,were never, ever going to affect  Atari share price, particularly in the short term.

Just for the record, you dont need to educate me of anything, Queens College Cambridge did that much better than you, although Im sure you beleive you know better.

[Broughden]

C) No one on here even seems to know what NPD market reports are even though the posters are supposed to be knowledgable about the gaming industry....how is this exactly my fault??? 

I'm pretty sure I made the only inferences possible with regards to your link back on the last page.

No actually some ass hat named Miasma said:

I implicitly trust a company named "Funworld" for all of my serious, hard-core market trends and retail analysis.  I am also glad the data is presented via the "funServlet".

I get my wholesale data from "Crazyland Incorporated", and as far as real-time datamining of the London Metal Exchange's bullion/mineral stream is concerned "HappyJoyWorld LLC" is the only name you need to know.

See? Im arguing with people who argue for the sake of argument! They have NO idea what the hell they are talking about. Based on reading past threads I thought this forum was above such buffonery.

[sigil]

Its not my fault I have to educate forum readers on
A) Market research companies within the software gaming industry
B) How and when profits by game software publshing companies are reported
C) Argue against someone who says "X" and yet Im the only one who supposedly has to prove "X" isnt true. NO ONE else has called him on "X".
This might actaully be a better conversation or debate if I didnt have to continue to prove BASIC FACTS that people knowledgable of the industry should know!

So, are all of the forum posters  more ignorant than you? if not, what percentage?

Also, you should have dropped C and made it a different issue. It doesn't fit with your established trolling structure.

[Merusk]

 

See? Im arguing with people who argue for the sake of argument! They have NO idea what the hell they are talking about. Based on reading past threads I thought this forum was above such buffonery.

Not when the bot we're aruging against is such a spectacular spaz.


 p.s. I was the one who mentioned the shill angle.  It was a joke, but it makes a nice title.

[voblat]

Its not my fault I have to educate forum readers on
A) Market research companies within the software gaming industry
B) How and when profits by game software publshing companies are reported
C) Argue against someone who says "X" and yet Im the only one who supposedly has to prove "X" isnt true. NO ONE else has called him on "X".
This might actaully be a better conversation or debate if I didnt have to continue to prove BASIC FACTS that people knowledgable of the industry should know!

So, are all of the forum posters  more ignorant than you? if not, what percentage?

Also, you should have dropped C and made it a different issue. It doesn't fit with your established trolling structure.

I actually smell teli idiot here, given the first post came about 10 minutes after his ban.

[Broughden]

As for the whole Atari stock matter...
Yes I am in business and understand the basics of stock prices rising and falling based on sales, perceived risk, stock analysis and so forth. As for any knowledge of the contract worked out between Turbine the developer of DDO and Atari it's North American publisher, I do not of course have access to the particulars. However from what I read Turbine assumed all cost of development and recruited VC in order to do this. In fact there were a number of industry media reports on them receiving $30 million in VC funds last year.
If Atari was in fact acting only as a publishing house, which all available indications point to, then their primary means of financial gain would be from sales of boxed units unless Turbine cut them in for a share of the subscription fees, which I highly doubt.

In fact here is an article discussing how each quarter's profit is driven by software titles released WITH IN that quarter: HERE
The significant part of the article to our discussion reads-

Net revenue for the quarter ended December 31, 2005, was $100.8 million versus $156.4 million in the prior year's comparable quarter, reflecting the Company's release of fewer titles in this quarter compared to the prior year. Publishing net revenue was $82.4 million, compared to $137.9 million in the prior year, and was primarily driven by the release of Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi (PS2), Dragon Ball Z: Super Sonic Warriors 2 (NDS), The Matrix: Path of Neo (PS2, Xbox and PC), and Atari Flashback 2 (Plug-and-Play). Distribution revenue was $18.4 million versus $18.5 million in the comparable year-earlier period.

Oh and I was right about them not reporting revenue from DDO until fiscal 2006. A statement from the company can be found HERE
The part relevant to our discussion says-

-For Fiscal 2006 ending March 31, 2006: Pirates! (Xbox), Boiling Point (PC), Dragon Ball GT:Transformation (GBA), Dragonshard (PC), Dungeons and Dragons Online (PC), etc etc.

We seem to be heading off wildly from the genral topic of this thread ehre, which was just how shit DDO actualy is, but to continue the discussion.
I havent looked at the nature of funding or involvement from atari , I have ad no need to.

However, IF what you say is true, and that they are merely a distributor and not either suffuring the expenditure of development or launch, nor the predicted (theoretical here) , subsequent profit , then that merely reinforce my initial statement.

Atari is a company with the very real threat of bankruptcy hanging over them, DDO is merely a niche game, there is no way the income from DDO in your scenario was ever going to overcome the bankruptcy threat, therefore the results of DDO sales , good or bad,were never, ever going to affect  Atari share price, particularly in the short term.

Just for the record, you dont need to educate me of anything, Queens Colledge Cambridge did that much better than you, although Im sure you beleive you know better.

Well YOU claimed you knew
A) When Atari would add profit from sale of DDO into their fiscal reports
B) How they would earn profit from the DDO title.
Obviously I did need to educate you on those two subjects, since you originally tried to discredit my knowledge of the software market based on your business experience with in the LSE.

As far as release of DDO not effecting their stock price...
IF DDO had been a successful title, you do admit it would have possibly boosted their 2006 Fiscal Year results (of course the success or lack of other titles would also contribute)? However, Atari took a quarterly loss and an annual Fiscal Year loss. Therefore their stock price sunk even lower.

[Broughden]

See? Im arguing with people who argue for the sake of argument! They have NO idea what the hell they are talking about. Based on reading past threads I thought this forum was above such buffonery.

Not when the bot we're aruging against is such a spectacular spaz.


 p.s. I was the one who mentioned the shill angle.  It was a joke, but it makes a nice title.

LOL yes thats it Im a bot. WOW some of you guys get dumber the more you post.

[sigil]

I actually smell teli idiot here, given the first post came about 10 minutes after his ban.

That should be easy enough to prove, unless he's being hardcore about being a tolling cockmonkey shill.