The kb+mouse vs controller war gets more fuel...

[Nightblade]

Sony doesn't have any stake in high-end PCs that I'm aware of.  Why don't they start shipping a kb+m with the PS3 and destroy Microsoft in one fell swoop if it's that easy?  Why doesn't Nintendo?  Is it because Steve Ballmer has really good blackmail material on them?

I don't the generation that eats up Modern Warfare 2 has the capacity (patience) to move to something unfamiliar to them.

[Azazel]

That still doesn't address the question. Besides, they all use computers all of the time.

[Nightblade]

That still doesn't address the question. Besides, they all use computers all of the time.

So what? They're not going to be used to it for playing games.

[Samwise]

Maybe you should go back and read Snakecharmer's post that I was replying to.

[Azazel]

^^^^

Also, every kid with access to a computer will have at least some experience of playing games on it. Not necessarily FPS etc, but some experience of games.

[Cyrrex]

every shooter is fundamentally superior on a PC.

No.

They're fundamentally better with a m/kb.  If the 360 or PS3 could be allowed to utilize a m/kb for gaming, PC gaming would probably die off rather quickly.  But Microsoft, at least, won't allow that because the lack of PC sales would kill their OS revenue.

You are, of course, correct.  I would be on console shooters like stink on shit if they were kb+m enabled.

[Malakili]

every shooter is fundamentally superior on a PC.

No.

They're fundamentally better with a m/kb.  If the 360 or PS3 could be allowed to utilize a m/kb for gaming, PC gaming would probably die off rather quickly.  But Microsoft, at least, won't allow that because the lack of PC sales would kill their OS revenue.

You are, of course, correct.  I would be on console shooters like stink on shit if they were kb+m enabled.

Heck yea, if they came out with a viable mouse/keyboard and developers started making games with good support for it I would buy a 360 or PS3 immediately (maybe both).  As it stands, I'm just not interested.

[Morat20]

You are, of course, correct.  I would be on console shooters like stink on shit if they were kb+m enabled.

He's correct in that people would probably use them. But not correct in his tin-foil hattery that the reason the 360 doesn't have a kb+mouse is because if they do, Microsoft won't be able to sell enough OS's anymore. *snort*.

I'd imagine, as I said before, the real reason you don't have a kb+mouse for consoles is that they're simply inconvienent to use the way most people use consoles.

Your couch isn't a desk. Or a table. And while you can rig something up, most people won't. And what "most people" do is what drives sales, and these days most people don't even want to bother with a wire connecting them to the console, much less having to figure out where to put the keyboard and mouse, and then using them.

[Samwise]

But if you put a pillow on the sofa and a book on the pillow and a mouse on the book and you balance your keyboard on your cat or something it works out perfectly!

   I keed, I keed.

[K9]

and these days most people don't even want to bother with a wire connecting them to the console

You say that as if it's a bad thing 

[Morat20]

It is a horrible thing. Wires, connecting to your console? Why not run the whole thing on vacuum tubes? Out of a cave? Written in COBOL?

Of course, my grandkids will probably be playing via direct neural interface. Which will be AWESOME, because given that the average teenage guy thinks about sex approximtely 50,000 times every minute, they'll be playing Halo 15 and tits will keep flashing on the screen as someone stops thinking about shooting the Convenant and starts thinking about that chick that sits behind him during math.

[Valmorian]

A large part of them, yeah.  Not because of FPS games specifically, but because of games in general, especially among the under 25 crowd.  Hell, even as a member of the 35+ crowd, if I could get all my games on a console including MMOs with a m/kb, I'd dump PC gaming entirely.  Why spend $1K plus on a decent PC (that I'll have to build myself) when I can spend $300 on a console and hook it up to my TV?  My current video card cost more than my PS3 did.

More directly, it would cut into the Games For Windows licensing that developers have with MS, which is really where they'd lose revenue.  

Why would you think that the amount of PC's sold that are primarily for game use is "a large part of them"?  Do you think businesses primarily buy their PC's for games?  Hell, what about the many, many netbooks out there, or systems just used by families for taxes, etc..?

I think it's insane to think that the reason there's no prolific Mouse and Keyboard option on consoles is because of OS revenue.  

[Nightblade]

They're fundamentally better with a m/kb.  If the 360 or PS3 could be allowed to utilize a m/kb for gaming, PC gaming would probably die off rather quickly.

A lot of people who prefer gaming on the PC do so more reasons than just what peripherals are used. With PC gaming, you get wonderful things that add to the value of the box price, like modding, and map editors... But that doesn't gel very well with "Hey, let's charge 15 dollars for 2 recycled maps and 3 new maps" so you're seeing these freedoms slowly fade away with most commercial games. Thankfully; we still have neat games like Minecraft and Mount & Blade to keep the spirit of PC gaming trudging along.

[Kageru]

But Microsoft, at least, won't allow that because the lack of PC sales would kill their OS revenue.

Unlikely. Microsoft has no reason to care about games on the PC over games on the XBox where they have 100% control of the platform both hardware and software. This is partly why microsoft is so meh about supporting xbox games having PC releases. The platforms are highly compatible after all, including both having piracy problems. Indeed the impressive thing is that PC gaming still exists given there's nobody pushing it.

The difference to me comes if you need a computer in which case springing for a decent video card allows you greater than xbox quality for a marginal price. If you just want a platform for games, especially if it's going to be attached to a TV, then a console makes a lot of sense.

Thankfully given the advent of  steam  I don't really care any more. I have enough games on my back-log and there's enough interesting, indie and deep titles around to keep me amused (plus I mostly MMO) and developers beginning to re-consider the platform (re. shatter). The AAA titles will stay on consoles because the market is large, easily seduced by shiny graphics and product tie-ins and the owners of those proprietary platforms are pumping money into it. On the other hand an AAA title has to appeal to the lowest common denominator in order to make back all that money spent on the shiny so a lot of them aren't that interesting (watching someone play crackdown 2 and transformers springing to mind).

[UnSub]

If someone built a console mouse that didn't require a desk to use it (some sort of motion control thing) then it could take over as the standard way of controlling console FPSs. Playing Red Steel on the Wii showed the potential for this kind of set-up to work (Red Steel had other problems; playing it just made me feel like I was drunk).

However, I've also been pondering the Dvorak keyboard as an example where a better product runs straight into entrenched market and consumer behaviours, so consoles may continue to be controller only for a while to come.

[Viin]

If someone built a console mouse that didn't require a desk to use it (some sort of motion control thing) then it could take over as the standard way of controlling console FPSs.

Say, like a trackball?

http://www.trackballworld.com/desktop-usb.html

[Engels]

Heh. Ironically I use a trackball for FPS. I utterly suck with a regular mouse.

[Mrbloodworth]

I use a Splitfish on my ps3.

[Azazel]

Review please? I think someone (schild?) was going to do a review of these once, but it ended up not happening for whatever reason and just being "it sucks".

I'd be interested in seeing your perspective.