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Title: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Endie on January 18, 2016, 12:02:33 PM CCP have released a new devblog explaining how the new system for stripping skills from a character and injecting them into another is to work: http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/skill-trading-in-new-eden/
Tl;dr strip 500k skill points from a character, sell the injector for isk or aurum, diminishing returns for higher-skillpoint characters. The response from those with younger and medium-age characters has been broadly positive, while that from a handful of bittervets has been sulky, with ocassional hyper-retards like jesters trek coming up with fanciful scenarios that ignore the fact that the same end can be achieved with the character bazaar. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on January 18, 2016, 05:28:13 PM Yeah, I've been reading the various forums, looking for entertainment.
I'm guessing that those who want to buy SP are excited, but I'm not sure how many of the veterans would actually take SP out of their heads, seeing how: - veterans don't really need ISK - even if they did, it's more effective to buy PLEX and sell it for ISK - CCP always reimburses SPs for major ship overhauls, so I'm not seeing any group of players being left with "suddenly useless" skills trained I enjoy watching CCP be CCP, though. Maybe it's a coincidence, but to me it looks like someone mentioned (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=447966&p=5) the idea in passing, and they saw it and liked it, cause 3 weeks later, boom devblog (http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/exploring-the-character-bazaar-skill-trading/), and now (3 months later) devblog again, pretty much unchanged. This despite the fact that they had a thread (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=5512404#post5512404) open in Features and Ideas that had only one purpose: to let people bash the idea of buying skillpoints with ISK or PLEX in a single thread, rather than all over General Discussion (and bash they did). So I think this is being implemented no matter what anyone replies. I'm expecting prices that are completely out-of-reach for newbies, and otherwise a high-demand no-supply market. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Endie on January 19, 2016, 01:01:54 AM I fully intend to tidy up my main characters by stripping the embarrassing and useless trains (defender missiles, mining etc) and injecting them into my low skill-point alt "Endie" which I finally got hold of last year.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Sir T on January 19, 2016, 04:00:43 AM Yeah I can see Vets using it to zoink up their alts to acceptable standard, but I cant see it doing much for new characters without the benefit of mommys credit card.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Endie on January 19, 2016, 06:09:43 AM Yeah I can see Vets using it to zoink up their alts to acceptable standard, but I cant see it doing much for new characters without the benefit of mommys credit card. The demographic of eve players is older than that for CoD etc so I imagine that they will do quite well out of people boosting new players, whether as alts or just to get into the game sooner. Also, some alliances will probably hand out skill boosts to newer members, although the economics suggest it won't be as widespread as mittens initially suggested for karmafleet, at least according to the maths I did on the fly yesterday. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Meester on January 19, 2016, 09:31:03 PM I fully intend to tidy up my main characters by stripping the embarrassing and useless trains (defender missiles, mining etc) and injecting them into my low skill-point alt "Endie" which I finally got hold of last year. But according to CCP [from sometime] the skills won't actually disappear from your character! You will still be stained by a mining skill in your skill list albeit at 0 sp trained and level 0. Any chance you could talk to CCP about getting the actual skill removed from your skill list? If it doesn't break the game o course ^-^ Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Setanta on January 20, 2016, 12:11:41 AM I asked them about this when I realised I had Controlled Bursts on my pure Minmatar. I really wanted it gone as I have no plans to fly anything but rust with her. I really wanted it gone but their answer was no when I petitioned them.
So I trained it to V and pretend that it never happened. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Endie on January 20, 2016, 01:37:02 AM You gotta own your spodumain processing shame.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Amarr HM on January 20, 2016, 07:56:32 AM My current main character has about 15-20m Sp in assorted useless things, so this will be useful. Just wish I could change the name.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Endie on January 20, 2016, 11:45:00 AM My current main character has about 15-20m Sp in assorted useless things, so this will be useful. Just wish I could change the name. I've never known you to have a main that had a good name. The current one, at least, would be funny to hear called as a primary on a recording of the hostiles. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Amarr HM on January 20, 2016, 12:10:46 PM Too right I've never been good at choosing names, my first one was supposed to be a joke and then I got stuck with it the more I trained and got absorbed. Then my alt, who is now my main, was setup as a datacore alt - so just threw in first thing popped into my head. Speaking of which - those datacore skills will be sold (along with the mining ones)!
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on January 20, 2016, 04:18:53 PM Heh, my first character, I created this whole background that he was just a clone serial number, and picked an alphanumeric name for him. Unfortunately, the only actual numbers that I used inside the name were 1, 3, and 4, so people kept trying to leet-speak pronounce it, to decipher the "code."
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on January 20, 2016, 06:22:43 PM You know what would be cool for everyone who wants to put useless points to better use? An actual skill remapping feature, for just an Aurum fee, without all the extractor and injector hassle.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Gets on January 21, 2016, 02:39:15 AM That would be too straightforward. They needed something that wouldn't take away character transfer revenue.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Amarr HM on January 21, 2016, 07:43:13 AM Wouldn't it be the same revenue just moved to a more convenient implementation?
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Endie on January 21, 2016, 10:49:58 AM Wouldn't it be the same revenue just moved to a more convenient implementation? I suspect that there will be some overlap, but that this will mainly be additional revenue. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Sir T on January 22, 2016, 08:49:11 AM I'd Agree. However I think it will be a big bump in the beginning that will rapidly tail off. There are not that many old players to think that shedding skillpoints will go on indefinitely and its a limited resource in any case. Plus, wiser players will want to beep their other racial skills in case the Meta changes a few months down the road and a new race is now "the best."
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on January 23, 2016, 06:32:17 AM In the official thread, they're arguing against that with examples of how people can set up accounts and get a character training with only 2 of 5 of the best implants, then every month extract up to 4 injectors for sale. The fixed skillpoints/minute training rate becomes skillpoints/portion-of-subscription-cost, becomes skillpoints/subscription-plex, with the aurum cost of the extractor becoming just a tax by CCP. The profitability of farming skillpoints to get ISK this way will be calculable as soon as CCP releases their Aurum cost for it, and thus right now is a bit uncertain. What is certain, though, is that there will be a huge supply of injectors if skillpoint farming is profitable.
So, in EVE, people don't think "if", they think "when", and figure that the market will just naturally reach a minimum price point for skill injectors of (1/4 of a plex + aurum cost), and what you'll see is a glut of them, just like there is a glut of plexes in Jita now, with people 0.01'ing each other daytrading to make a profit. CCP will see some income from Aurum, and some more income from 20,000 new "sp farm" accounts, characters that never log in but train all the time, set to the cheapest (yearly) subscription, with the +5 cha/mem implants (cha implants are the cheapest), perpetually training and then extracting some Social skill for maximum efficiency. There are no delays, randomness, or competition to the production of (filled up) injectors; it's a guaranteed process, like mining. Market will be saturated, and prices will settle to the minimum possible where you can still make a profit if you 0.01 with a vengeance. They've probably already started the market speculation / manipulation on +5 implants, and cha implants in general, in anticipation of this whole thing. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Sir T on January 23, 2016, 08:33:29 AM Very interesting. The possibility of having "SP Cattle" characters to harvest SP from never really occurred to me.
So, effectively, long term they are creating an XP Boost for those people who are willing to pay CCP for XP. Not that there is anything wrong with that. :oh_i_see: Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on January 23, 2016, 08:49:54 AM Well, continuing the thought, high-sec players will inject to maximize trading skills (lower taxes), social skills (more ISK injected into the economy from missions), mining output (more minerals), production skills (multiple research lines, multiple production lines going), PI, moon goo, etc. Ships should be cheaper, T2 items should be cheaper.
Of course, null-sec players will inject to titan or super or whatever warship gives them a hard-on, then they'll want to take it for a spit, hopefully resulting in more wars, which should balance the prices. All in all, TQ will probably move a little bit closer to being like the test server, where we can jump into any ship we fancy, to "test" things, without a lot of waiting. Whether or not CCP wants that remains to be seen. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Setanta on January 23, 2016, 06:25:32 PM How much can you strip from characters? While I'm sentimental about my pilots, I have 2 hulk pilots tthat I never mine with and a JF/Orca pilot that never goes anywhere.
I'm quite tempted to rend them down into SP for my other characters - particularrly as I have about 6 years of unsubbed time with my '06 Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on January 23, 2016, 06:30:55 PM You can strip your characters all the way down to 5 million SP left in their brain; each extraction session being 500k points and costing you some Aurum for the extractor. Price is likely to get prohibitive; to extract 50 million points, you'll need 100 extractors, and it's likely that will cost you dozens of PLEX in Aurum fees. People want to move their skills around, but paying hundreds of dollars to do it is another matter. CCP has kept quiet about the exact Aurum cost.
Also, when you inject the points, there's a loss: newbies get 500k, vets get 400k, then 300k, then 150k, depending on how many millions of points you already have. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Merusk on January 23, 2016, 07:01:27 PM Very interesting. The possibility of having "SP Cattle" characters to harvest SP from never really occurred to me. Never? Not even a little bit? Because I haven't played the game since 2010 and that's the FIRST thing I thought of. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Sir T on January 23, 2016, 11:55:53 PM Nope. I can be very uncreative in thinking about these things at times. :grin:
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Phildo on January 24, 2016, 05:25:57 PM Depends on how the diminishing returns work, it might not do anything at all for guys with 100m+ skill points.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on January 27, 2016, 06:04:53 AM Link to a Crossing Zebras article (http://crossingzebras.com/is-valkyrie-monetization-coming-to-eve-online/) was posted in the official thread (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=6302487#post6302487) discussing the skill injectors, that reveals that CCP is going to use a monetization / microtransactions middle layer (Aria) for its new Valkyrie game, and eventually for all its games, including EVE.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Sir T on January 27, 2016, 07:47:17 AM Isn't that what Auram was supposed to be?
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on January 27, 2016, 01:06:04 PM No, Aurum is just a coin that was introduced to solve the issue that otherwise things could only cost multiples of 1 PLEX = $20. With 1000 Aurum = $5, they gained the ability to offer minor cosmetic items (ship SKINs) for $0.99, $0.50, etc.
From what I'm reading, Aria is actually middleware, probably sits between your EVE client and CCP's EVE servers, and taxes everything. I don't think they'll go that far, but theoretically: You click the undock button -> EVE client sends a server request to undock and switch to the local space around the station -> gets intercepted by Aria, who first checks whether you've paid $0.99 for the undock permit. Basically, they can easily add a prompt to purchase stuff for any click or action that they want to tax. Apply SKIN to ship? Pay first. Rearrange your skillpoints in your head? Pay first. Without the need for CCP to specifically code all that payment functionality into EVE itself. Right now they have to specifically design Skill Extractors that we can purchase from the NEX store, and Skill Injectors, and the process of transforming an extractor item into an injector item. Just so they can get paid for the feature. With this Aria, they can just say "anyone can rearrange their skillpoints, just right-click on the skill and choose "untrain", points will be moved to the unallocated pool." And just flag the "untrain" button to cause an Aria pop-up asking for your credit card. It's easier for them to apply microtransactions to absolutely any thing they want, without any re-coding, and without the need for any items to be bought from the NEX store to facilitate payment. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on January 29, 2016, 04:26:44 PM Video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BsTmfuQnqJ4) of someone extracting points and inserting points on the test server.
The interface for extraction is cumbersome: you have to drag the skills, and the window closes itself when 1 extractor is produced, which results in quite a bit of clicking to do more than one. On the other hand, the interface for injecting is really nice: you can inject stacks of injectors at once, once the points are in the unallocated pool, you can apply them to your training queue with 1 click, wiping out months of training. Or, you can right-click any skill individually and inject points. It no longer requires pausing training and emptying the queue to allocate points. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Sir T on February 05, 2016, 12:36:28 PM https://twitter.com/EveOnline/status/695689455496249347
Quote Tuesday will see Skill Trading come to #eveonline w/ Skill Extractors and Injectors hitting the markets for ISK (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CaeVkQ0W8AANsPt.jpg) Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on February 05, 2016, 12:48:48 PM Exactly what I expected. $500 (approx. 4 years of subscription) to extract 50 million points (2.5 years to train normally).
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Meester on February 08, 2016, 11:39:58 PM Exactly what I expected. $500 (approx. 4 years of subscription) to extract 50 million points (2.5 years to train normally). I'm glad I got one of those aurum tokens left though I will probably just keep it and wait until theres a sale for skill extractors or something. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Amarr HM on February 09, 2016, 01:00:58 AM How much can you buy/sell SP off the market for?
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Sir T on February 09, 2016, 01:10:49 AM The patch is today, so the price will be flying up due to marlet bot specialization.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Amarr HM on February 09, 2016, 01:15:37 AM Any projected figures? I would hazard a guess they will start off cheap due to market saturation, then rise when less people are stripping out their mining skills. So might be best to wait out the initial storm.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Sir T on February 09, 2016, 05:00:02 AM Yeah but they vary wildly. From one
http://nosygamer.blogspot.hu/2016/02/guesstimating-cost-of-skill-point.html Quote Guesstimating The Cost Of Skill Point Injectors Whether we like the feature or not, skill trading is coming to EVE Online on 9 February. The time for debate is long past, so I will put on my prognosticator's hat and and attempt to determine the cost players will pay in order to advance their characters more quickly. The figure I came up with is 500 million to 600 million ISK. How did I come up with that price range? Time to show my work. First, the professional ghouls with their clone farms have to cover the subscription price. I imagine those running the farms will PLEX their accounts. What is the cost of a PLEX? Currently, the price is hovering around 1.2 billion ISK. I expect that the price of PLEX will increase as skill point injectors become more popular, but for now 1.2 billion ISK is a fairly round number. Next, how many skill points can a clone generate in a 30-day period? Assuming I know how to use EveMon properly, a character with +5 learning implants can generate 2,700 skill points in an hour, or 1,944,000 in a month. With each skill point injector holding 500,000 skill points, that means a single account can generate a total of 3.888 skill injectors per month. For simplicities sake, let's round the number up to 4 skill injectors. To merely cover the subscription price, the skill point injector manufacturer must charge at least 300 million ISK per injector. If the clone farmer is thinking long term, then substitute the actual figure of 3.888 skill injectors and the total to cover the subscription cost is 308.6 million ISK. But wait, the farmer also has to purchase the skill extractor from the cash shop. Once again, the clone farmer will not want to spend real life cash, so will purchase a second PLEX. The conversion rate of PLEX to Aurum is 3,500 AUR per PLEX. Now for the 64 million ISK question. How much will CCP charge for the skill extractor? As of the time I write this post, CCP has not said. My someone educated guess is between $2-$3 USD. If I were setting the odds, I would put the over/under at $2.50 USD per skill extractor. Why $2.50? Because I believe that CCP is targeting the player with between 5 million and 50 million skill points. CCP will want to charge the player for the amount of training time saved by purchasing and using skill injectors. The number of skill points gained per injector use is below: < 5 million total skillpoints = 500,000 skillpoints per injector 5 million – 50 million total skillpoints = 400,000 skillpoints per injector 50 million – 80 million total skillpoints = 300,000 skillpoints per injector > 80 million skillpoints = 150k skillpoints per injector Since a player in the target skill point range would need to purchase 5 injectors, that means manufacturers would need to spend $12.50 USD in order to create enough injectors to supply a one month supply of skill points. Looking at the subscription price chart, a three-month sub costs $12.95 per month and a six-month sub costs $11.95 per month. Now for the key. How much aurum can one buy for $2.50? The below graphic from the account management page gives a clue: Aurum prices in USD I figure the price from the $5 amount, or 450 AUR. If purchasing PLEX in-game to convert to aurum, that means a clone farmer can get 7.78 skill extractors per PLEX. For the sake of the math, I will round the figure up to 8. So the monthly manufacturing costs per clone must include additional half a PLEX, or 600 million ISK, to cover the purchase of aurum. That brings the total monthly production cost per account to 1.8 billion ISK, or 450 million ISK per skill injector. Will the traffickers of skill injectors sell their products at cost? Hardly. But what is a good mark up? I think 33%, which brings the total up to 600 million ISK per skill injector. Since one account can create 4 skill injectors per month, that means two accounts should just about generate enough ISK to purchase one PLEX in order to pay for someone's main account. I personally won't enter the skill injector market. Besides the thought that extracting skills from clones is icky, I am not sure if the demand for skill points will really bear a 600 million ISK price. Personally, I do not believe so. CCP would do better with a $2 USD, or 360 AUR, price point. The only problem with that price is that some illicit RMTers may try their hands at clone farming. Still, I think the big RMT operations won't bother with the low profit margins involved with skill point training. Of course, I'm probably wrong. At least I won't have long to wait to find out. To another http://greedygoblin.blogspot.ie/2016/02/skill-injector-price.html Quote Noisy wrote a piece on skill injector price and I completely disagree. He wrote Quote a character with +5 learning implants can generate 2,700 skill points in an hour, or 1,944,000 in a month. With each skill point injector holding 500,000 skill points, that means a single account can generate a total of 3.888 skill injectors per month.To merely cover the subscription price, the skill point injector manufacturer must charge at least 300 million ISK per injector. If the clone farmer is thinking long term, then substitute the actual figure of 3.888 skill injectors and the total to cover the subscription cost is 308.6 million ISK. While this is true, the interpretation is completely wrong. This 300M + empty injector price is not a lower limit, but an upper one. The price will be lower, probably much lower. This is why: This is the proficiency of my titan pilot in Ragnarok. All skills trained to 5. Which is great except I won't fly one in the near future. These skillpoints have no practical value to me. I trained them when I had very different views on EVE. I have several other pilots overtrained. My logi pilot can fly all carriers on 5 and I undock her once a year to fly a Guardian in Burn Jita. I have an all 5 on 3 dreads pilot and so on. I'm sitting on more than 200M skillpoints on my pilots that I have no use for and would sell for any price. We are talking about 400 full extractors here! I'm sure I'm not the only one. Titan and supercarrier pilots can sell all their subcap skills. PvP pilots can sell mining, industry, marauders. Focused role pilots can sell off-role skills. Ratters can sell gunnery and missiles. Winet can sell leadership. Everyone and his mother can sell PI. If an average veteran has just 20M no longer needed SP and we count with 100K veteran pilots, than we are facing 4M full extractors on day 1 which have no opportunity cost to create. Sure, most of them will not be created on day 1 as people don't know about them or don't have the capital to buy empty extractors or whatever, but this SP will find its way to the market sooner or later. This isn't just a stockpile I that will diminish once. My pilots are earning SP every day and I won't need this SP anymore than today. I run 10 acounts and train only 3 super pilots, which means that I produce 27 extractors a month "for free", since the opportunity would be to train skills I won't use (I don't want to sell these pilots). I'm pretty sure that the full extractor price will be less than 200M+empty extractor. Maybe even less than 100M+empty until the dump is over (which can take months). The only thing that will sell is PLEX which people will buy to get their empty extractors. So take your choices. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on February 09, 2016, 05:02:53 AM Well, they are also offering discounts on PLEX, and subscription bundles that include free extractors (link here (http://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/skill-trading-launch-offers-on-aur-subscriptions-and-plex/)), so I don't know right now, but last night PLEX was racing up from 1250k to 1275k then as soon as they announced the discounts it took a dive back down to 1240k. At work right now, so I can't tell you what's going on right now.
EDIT: The couple market traders who posted on the official forums seemed to think that the prices should be between: - cost of extractor + subscription cost of training the SP = half a PLEX - cost of extractor + "SP are free" = quarter of a PLEX Currently, PLEX = 1.25 billion ISK, so 600 and 300 million. I'm guessing CCP is trying to keep PLEX prices down by offering the discount bundles, and making the aur discounts the cheapest way to get extractors. EDIT2: Someone posted from in-game (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=468492&find=unread). Initial injector prices were 1.5bn but they rapidly dropped to 630 mil, and now rising back up through 730 m. PLEX prices up from 1.25b to 1.35b. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Endie on February 11, 2016, 12:33:07 AM The patch is today, so the price will be flying up due to marlet bot specialization. lawl market bots driving macro price changes. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Amarr HM on February 11, 2016, 01:47:02 AM So I don't need to RMT to extract, just need to buy an extractor and then receive an injector, which I can sell on the market? How are the extractors seeded?
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Sir T on February 11, 2016, 05:00:05 AM AFAIK they aren't. People buy them with AUR and put them on the market. You don't think CCP would miss an opportunity to make 5 bucks do you? If they were stuck up for free it would defeat the purpose, aside from indirectly with people selling PLEX.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Endie on February 11, 2016, 06:00:25 AM AFAIK they aren't. People buy them with AUR and put them on the market. You don't think CCP would miss an opportunity to make 5 bucks do you? If they were stuck up for free it would defeat the purpose, aside from indirectly with people selling PLEX. Quite right they should do it for free and another thing do you know that they charge for subscriptions those scammers well anyway I'm off to shoot the jita monument who's with me? Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Sir T on February 11, 2016, 06:47:12 AM Sorry, already shot the Amarr monument. :why_so_serious:
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Amarr HM on February 11, 2016, 07:48:10 AM I wonder how wide the gap in extractor/injector could stretch. Anyone else think waiting it out is the best option, or will the market madness be giving us the best prices right now.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Sir T on February 11, 2016, 08:13:42 AM Usually the prices of new stuff is vastly inflated for a week or 2.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Amarr HM on February 11, 2016, 08:27:09 AM Yeh I tend to agree with you there, hence why I'm veering towards the sell sell sell approach, now might be a good time.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on February 11, 2016, 12:18:06 PM Well the extractors have pretty much reached equilibrium at whatever 1000 Aur is, in terms of ISK.
Injectors, on the other hand, are up in the air. The supply CAN be pretty high (if everyone makes skill farming alts), but the demand can be pretty high too. I believe what will happen is injector prices will go to the minimum (based on Aur and subscription costs to get the SP), with spikes in demand whenever CCP announces new ships that require new skills (like the carrier / aux revamp). So it depends on whether PLEX prices increase or not. Typical volume for PLEX is about 2000 traded / day, except these past few days it's jumped to 15,000 / day. It's been explained to me that people buy PLEX and put it on the market to get ISK for injectors, and then people take the PLEX off the market to get Aur to get extractors, so that accounts for the high volumes traded with no dive in PLEX prices. So I'm guessing PLEX prices will creep up slowly, at the same rate as they have in the past. Next change, major rework of carriers (http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/reworking-capital-ships-and-thus-it-begins) (CCP is making them more like WW2 carriers, where you have to manage your flight deck and decide what fighters or bombers to launch, and can be caught with your pants down - sounds cool actually. Also they're making a new ship to function as the capital remote repair). In any case, I'm mentioning that because it looks like they're trying to make the new skills for the new ships be a cash sink, which may bring the PLEX prices back down a bit. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on February 12, 2016, 08:14:10 AM New dev blog has been posted (http://community.eveonline.com/news/dev-blogs/reworking-capital-ships-skills-modules-and-refitting) about the new carriers and force auxiliaries, and also about reimbursing the related skills.
It sounds like they're going to let the force auxiliary ships use the Carrier and Triage skills, and otherwise they're changing the Fighters, Light Fighters, Support Fighters, and Heavy Fighters (previously Fighter Bombers) skills to be similar to how Drones, Light Drones, Medium Drones, and Heavy Drones function; one skill unlocks the ability to use 1-5, the other three unlock the specific kind of fighter and give bonuses. They're also converting the ships (from carrier to force aux) for people who elect to leave certain modules fitted to signal that they want to switch their ship over. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Amarr HM on February 12, 2016, 04:45:16 PM I just made 17b isk stripping skills, I purged about 22-25m sp.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Amarr HM on February 13, 2016, 01:43:48 AM Most of the skills came from an unused alt with 25m sp, if I had sold that character on the bazaar I would have been lucky to get 12b and had to pay a transfer fee. I got to keep the character with some focused skills for a specific role and still made about 12bil from him.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on February 13, 2016, 04:03:20 AM Is that 17b buying extractors from the market for ISK, or is that 17b but you paid aur/cash for the extractors?
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Amarr HM on February 13, 2016, 09:50:18 AM Thats net profit from buying extractors removing the skills and selling injectors. Started with 2.2 bil, now have 18.8bil.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Setanta on February 13, 2016, 01:27:37 PM I bought 10 injectors and drained one of my mining alts of its SP. I topped up the skills of a 12 month old pilot and then sold the rest. I'm pretty sure I'm going to do the same with my JF/Orca pilot and a bomber pilot - and then biomass all 3 when done. I'll then dump the SP into my remaining research/mining alt and that will take me nicely to 6 pilots instead of 9.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Amarr HM on February 13, 2016, 05:25:34 PM Only flaw is you can only strip out as far as 5.5mil SP so you would be throwing away 16.5mil SP when you biomass those.
I've worked out at current rates you can play for free no problem at all. You can make 2700 sp per hour at 30 days is 1944000, divide that by 500,000 is 3.88. So the current profit between extractor injector is 320mil isk, if you multiply that by 3.88 you get 1,244,160,000 ISK. Which is just a pinch above current plex prices. Nerf incoming, or CCP are waiting for the market to gain some sanity. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on February 14, 2016, 03:20:47 PM At some point someone will have to buy PLEX and extractors with RL cash. It's impossible for everyone to play for free, as the PLEX, extractors, and injectors are consumed.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on February 20, 2016, 08:37:44 PM You know, I'm really tempted to strip my 100m SP character for PLEX.
Previously, characters were priced on the Bazaar based on max training speed 2700 / hr and cheapest subscription ($10 / month). Now, because they can strip the SP and sell as injectors, characters are priced based on that. And it ends up being PLEX / month rather than $10. Prices have doubled. One can convert the SP from 5 years of subscription into enough PLEX for 5 years of game time. Of course, starting over, won't be able to fly anything for a while. But the metagame has moved to T2 and T3 cruisers, pretty much, with some T1 battlecruisers thrown in. Capitals are up in the air for a few more months, and I don't have the ISK and (more importantly) the experience to actually fly them anyway. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on February 26, 2016, 01:27:34 PM CCP has released usage charts for extractors and injectors (http://imgur.com/YtFwq8a).
Looks like the majority of users were either alts that were bumped up a few million points to extend their usefulness, or new / low skillpoint characters who bypassed a few months to a year of support skill training. In the dot graphs, each dot is a character, so the number of "rich people" that everyone was whining about on the official forums is in the double digits. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Phildo on February 26, 2016, 02:21:03 PM That graph doesn't account for this. https://zkillboard.com/kill/52256704/
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on February 26, 2016, 09:35:37 PM Yeah, it only accounts for release day-and-a-half (first 36 hrs).
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Amarr HM on February 27, 2016, 01:16:14 AM Wow shitty drop.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Sir T on March 10, 2016, 06:08:56 AM Whats the space requirements for an extractor? Becasue if they were small I would have used a t3 cruiser (if avalible) and laughed at the gankers. Going to Jita without the Tank of God or a horse of smaller alts to bring them out piecemeal is looking to die.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Endie on March 10, 2016, 08:33:18 AM I stripped a couple of high-skill but scattergun-trained alts last night, as well as a couple of low-skill ones in the 30-million range, and now I have quarter a trillion isk instead of not much over 50 billion. I never need to PvE again. I also still have a couple of high-skill alts that are looking pretty devourable right now.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Phildo on March 10, 2016, 09:17:55 AM Aw, am I not the richest guy in the corp now?
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Gets on March 10, 2016, 08:27:43 PM You'll always bring richness to my heart, Samson :heart:
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on March 12, 2016, 06:28:18 AM Sigh, I'm sitting at 10b. But, I'm idle, so oh well.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on April 15, 2016, 06:22:36 AM As a continuation of the whole skill-points are a commodity thing, CCP is planning to introduce daily "opportunities" (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=476516&find=unread) and reward 10,000 skill points for the first NPC you kill each day, soon to be expanded to the first asteroid you mine, the first production job, the first site scanned, etc, etc. Supposedly to encourage actually logging into the game.
My suggestion was that they forget about that and change the ship insurance to reward no ISK and just some skillpoints when you lose your ship in PVP (no PVE). Increased rewards for newbies if they want, as newbies can't otherwise afford the regular skill injectors. But anyway, the thread is mostly in flames and growing rapidly, as no one likes the idea of dailies, so any replies will get buried fast. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Meester on April 17, 2016, 10:21:49 AM As a continuation of the whole skill-points are a commodity thing, CCP is planning to introduce daily "opportunities" (https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=476516&find=unread) and reward 10,000 skill points for the first NPC you kill each day, soon to be expanded to the first asteroid you mine, the first production job, the first site scanned, etc, etc. Supposedly to encourage actually logging into the game. My suggestion was that they forget about that and change the ship insurance to reward no ISK and just some skillpoints when you lose your ship in PVP (no PVE). Increased rewards for newbies if they want, as newbies can't otherwise afford the regular skill injectors. But anyway, the thread is mostly in flames and growing rapidly, as no one likes the idea of dailies, so any replies will get buried fast. I hate the idea, I have made my feelings known. Goes against everything that eve should be. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Gets on May 10, 2016, 01:16:04 PM Dailies... in Eve.... :uhrr:
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on May 19, 2016, 03:42:06 PM So, despite the complaints and comments, they're going ahead with the Dailies (https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/first-recurring-opportunity-to-be-deployed-on-2016-05-24/) and will push the first out on Tuesday.
10,000 skill points / day (if you shoot an NPC) = 300,000 per month = free injector every two months or so = equivalent of PLEX every 3 months or so. I'm thinking some prices are about to crash on the market. Average skillpoints / month is 1.6 million, with this change 1.9 million. Equivalent of having an extra set of +5 attribute implants. Maybe they're considering removing attribute implants. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: VainEldritch on May 20, 2016, 02:44:48 PM CCP selling SP is like walking in on the Pope wanking as he blarts all over a Tumblr creeper image of Satan's upskirt thong. I like it.
Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Endie on May 21, 2016, 01:32:50 AM CCP selling SP is like walking in on the Pope wanking as he blarts all over a Tumblr creeper image of Satan's upskirt thong. I like it. This is an excellent metaphor except for being pointless, inaccurate, irrelevant and horribly-poorly written. I feel stupider for reading it and even stupider for engaging seriously, but I do feel I have to point out that CCP have always sold skillpoints (those and the right to log into their services are what you get in return for your subscription). And if you really feel that the new mechanic needs economic analysis in inappropriate IRL-terms, then the new dailies are not a contract of sale (where you pay them to acquire a good) but a contract of hire (where they pay you to perform an act). So, despite the complaints and comments, they're going ahead with the Dailies (https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/first-recurring-opportunity-to-be-deployed-on-2016-05-24/) and will push the first out on Tuesday. I honestly do not know why anyone is complaining, except for a very few people who have reason to believe that they genuinely lack the self-control required to resist the urge to log in every single day because what will they do without today's 10k skillpoints. Not-logging-in is habit-forming. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: VainEldritch on May 21, 2016, 02:58:13 AM CCP selling SP is like walking in on the Pope wanking as he blarts all over a Tumblr creeper image of Satan's upskirt thong. I like it. This is an excellent metaphor except for being pointless, inaccurate, irrelevant and horribly-poorly written. In my defense, I was horribly drunk... :why_so_serious: Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: Endie on May 21, 2016, 03:16:44 AM CCP selling SP is like walking in on the Pope wanking as he blarts all over a Tumblr creeper image of Satan's upskirt thong. I like it. This is an excellent metaphor except for being pointless, inaccurate, irrelevant and horribly-poorly written. In my defense, I was horribly drunk... :why_so_serious: That makes a great deal more sense, in that case. Title: Re: Instant skill training: strip-mining your strip-mining skills for fun and profit Post by: ajax34i on May 21, 2016, 08:47:00 AM Complaints are generally along these lines:
- that the reward is too desirable and will become "the norm", and thus a punishment to those who don't do the daily and "miss out." - typical of CCP this will never be iterated or improved (or not fast enough) to reward activities other than PVE ratting. - that CCP didn't reward a generic all-inclusive activity like "activate a module in space" and instead is "forcing" everyone to PVE rats. - the reward is unfair to those who can't log in for whatever period. - it's ruining the economy (or specific items in the economy). There's a 100+ page complaint thread from when they first announced the feature, and now that they've announced it for Tuesday, a few small threads are popping up in General Discussion, re-iterating the various points. Reddit had a couple threads too, yesterday when the announcement was made. One thing that's unclear to me is whether this reward is per account or per character. I believe the idea was presented as per account originally, but the announcement seems to say it's per character that performs the activity. Guess I'll have to wait and see. |