SW - Episode 7: Mary Sue wakes up but there's no coffee. RAGE.

[Triforcer]

I still can't fathom how we got from the opening scene of ANH to "the taxation of trade routes to outlying star systems are in dispute" and an opening scene in a fucking CONFERENCE ROOM.  

[Samprimary]

I have always sort of wondered that. It expresses a real specific sort of wayward authoritarian control over the plot, script, and storyboarding, and it seems to indicate that Lucas or whoever else could have possibly input to this was really not beholden to any sort of system known (or notorious) for making movies accessible, or really artistically lauded, or compelling in their pacing, or consistent in their tone.

And the whole start of episode one is so oddly none of these things? It is kind of amazing.

[Sir T]

Can we agree that they achieve some minimal level of competency that makes them watchable without the aid of prescription drugs?

I'm on prescription drugs. The movies are still shite.

[Ironwood]

Christ, you sound like me.  Cheer up.   

[Samwise]

Can we agree that they achieve some minimal level of competency that makes them watchable without the aid of prescription drugs?

I'm on prescription drugs. The movies are still shite.

Thanks, NHS!

[Sir T]

Christ, you sound like me.  Cheer up.   

[/Needsmoredrugs!!!]

[naum]

Yeah, what Colbert said!  He's got me beat by two weeks; I didn't go on release night back in 1977, the line curled around the Cine Capri theater in Phoenix.  I had to come back for a matinee the next day.  I was fourth in line and my 14 year old mind was blown away.  I'm hoping for the same experience next year.

Here's the movie theater, it was awesome. http://www.harkinstheatres.com/aboutCineCapri.aspx

Yeah, the Cine Capri was an awesome theater. I was so sad when it got shuttered.

[rattran]

I got to see the full trilogy there when it rereleased, quite fun. But packed. The new Cine Capri in Snotsdale isn't even close to as cool.

I'll go see this film, I just hope it's more fun than Phantom Menace.

[Samwise]

I actually like this shot much better when I can see what the hell is going on.



I'm trying to think of what to call this camera technique.  It's not shaky-cam.  I'm thinking "double dutch angle".

[01101010]

I'm trying to think of what to call this camera technique.  It's not shaky-cam.  I'm thinking "double dutch angle".

follow-cam or trailer-cam.

[Samwise]

I should clarify -- in the actual footage the camera is rolling around (like a very extreme version of a dutch angle) as it follows the subject (the gif is showing you a stabilized version with the box indicating the original framing).  That's the thing I don't know the name for.

[Maven]

I'm actually surprised the Tie Fighter design wasn't updated in some fashion.

Empire using relic spaceships, new stormtrooper armor, return of Sith ... Ah, New Empire.

[rattran]

I should clarify -- in the actual footage the camera is rolling around (like a very extreme version of a dutch angle) as it follows the subject (the gif is showing you a stabilized version with the box indicating the original framing).  That's the thing I don't know the name for.

I think we call it shitty camera work.

[MahrinSkel]

Maybe it's supposed to be the viewpoint of another ship that is trying to follow the Falcon.  If it isn't, then they just swirled the virtual camera around for no fucking reason but to make the shot more "dynamic", ala shaky-cam fight scenes where you can't tell WTF is going on because you're trying to unscramble the viewpoint.

--Dave

[tazelbain]

Ya, looks like is's just another effect in the same category as lens fair. Interesting visual effect when used in moderation, but JJ just can't help cracking it to 11.

[01101010]

 

[Surlyboi]

http://youtu.be/7EJ6AmplD8g

 

[TheWalrus]

I'm trying to think of what to call this camera technique.  It's not shaky-cam.  I'm thinking "double dutch angle".

Now I see a couple girls trying to film something while skipping rope.

[Tannhauser]

http://youtu.be/7EJ6AmplD8g

 

Spot on.  I hate Wes Anderson's movies.

[Malakili]

http://youtu.be/7EJ6AmplD8g

 

Better trailer than the actual one. 

[calapine]

http://youtu.be/7EJ6AmplD8g

 

Better trailer than the actual one.  

http://youtu.be/7EJ6AmplD8g

 

Spot on.  I hate Wes Anderson's movies.

You are both right.


Since this thread is so meta already anyway, something I wanted to ask. Is there anyone (else) who thinks that New Hope is actually better than Empire Returns? It seems to be one of those internet-laws that you have the say that the 2nd one is best, the 1st comes 2nd and 3rd one is the weakest.

[Merusk]

It's a GenX thing. See the Clerks monologue. Things are only cool when they're anti-<x> or dystopian. Hope is lame, cynicism and sarcasm are the rule of cool. c.f. this site.

I put them about equal but always like the visuals of Empire and the Luke/ Vader fight better so it was my #1.

[calapine]

It's a GenX thing. See the Clerks monologue. Things are only cool when they're anti-<x> or dystopian. Hope is lame, cynicism and sarcasm are the rule of cool. c.f. this site.

I put them about equal but always like the visuals of Empire and the Luke/ Vader fight better so it was my #1.

Interesting aspect. Thank you. 

[Samwise]

It's a GenX thing. See the Clerks monologue. Things are only cool when they're anti-<x> or dystopian. Hope is lame, cynicism and sarcasm are the rule of cool. c.f. this site.

I put them about equal but always like the visuals of Empire and the Luke/ Vader fight better so it was my #1.

Did you just say that you like the same stupid things that everyone else likes, but you like them for better reasons so it's okay, right after you were railing against Gen X hipsters?

 

[HaemishM]

Empire is clearly the better film on every single level. It's got nothing to do with hipster anti-bullshit or whatever "I'm so much cooler than the cynical by being anti-cynical" cumguzzle that Merusk has been on lately. It's just a better goddamn movie. It's got nothing to do with hope or darkness or whatever. It's shot better, the effects are better, the scale is grander, the story and character beats are better. It's what happens when a good director is allowed to be good.

[Teleku]

Growing up, the general consensus was that Return was the best, then Empire.  As we became adults, it shifted to Empire then Return.  But almost nobody I know (IRL, internet is different obviously  ) thinks the first one is better than Empire or Return.

[eldaec]

As a kid I could have watched the space battle in Return all fucking day, but even then wished it wasn't intercut with other bullshit.

As a grown up, Star Wars is a better film.

But empire has always been the best and I never met anyone who seriously thought otherwise. Even as a kid it was Empire that hints the universe has even more cool shit in it than we see on screen. It has ATATs and grappling hooks and Asteroid worms and Boba Fett and Darth Vader being properly mean, and no 5 way intercut bullshit ending.

That said I'm guessing the 'which was better as a kid' is very dependent on your exact age.

[Sir T]

I actually saw both Star wars and Empire for the first time back to back when I was 9 or 10 I think. Even then I knew Empire was the better movie and I haven't changed my opinion. That's not to say that Star Wars is a bad movie at all because its a good movie, just that Empire is a better one.

[01101010]

NH and Empire go together though. Without NH, Empire would not be as great. It needed the set up. I agree Empire is the better of the two movies, but only because NH was out there with all the loose ends.

[Shannow]

Call me a simpleton but I've never thought of Empire being the better movie because Return finishes the trilogy. I love Return for the last 1/3rd? of the films as it cuts between the battle on Endor, the battle above Endor and the battle in the throne room. They are part of my childhood and really I see them as a complete set.

I also like white bread.


edit: What binary said, none of them work without the other.

[Draegan]

I loved Jedi for the space battles. I loved ANH for the Death Star rescue sequence, it was like a dungeon crawl. Empire is technically the better movie because of a lot of reasons Haemish mentioned, but I always loved the other two better. My opinion would be so much different if these opinions weren't formulated through the eyes of a kid seeing them over and over again back in the 80s.

[eldaec]

Certainly none of them (except maybe star wars) work without the others existing, but Return would have been much easier to improve with a better writer and/or director. 

[Teleku]

What are peoples criticisms of Return?  Only thing I ever usually hear is "fucking Ewoks" which really never bothered me.

The movie was the most epic in scope.  Epic fights in different dramatic settings.  Massive fleet battle.  Luke (IMO) successfully portraying himself as having trained up enough to be an actual Jedi bad ass, instead of the clumsy whiny bitch he started out on in the first movie.  The saber fight at the end where they try to turn him was really well done.

Return just had the most visually impressive scenes, great fight pacing, fine acting, and a very satisfying plot conclusion.  I can't really fault it on anything, other than maybe Ewoks being 'silly'.  I only give the nod to Empire because the dialog was a little more witty/adult, and was well paced.

[01101010]

What are peoples criticisms of Return?  Only thing I ever usually hear is "fucking Ewoks" which really never bothered me.

The movie was the most epic in scope.  Epic fights in different dramatic settings.  Massive fleet battle.  Luke (IMO) successfully portraying himself as having trained up enough to be an actual Jedi bad ass, instead of the clumsy whiny bitch he started out on in the first movie.  The saber fight at the end where they try to turn him was really well done.

Return just had the most visually impressive scenes, great fight pacing, fine acting, and a very satisfying plot conclusion.  I can't really fault it on anything, other than maybe Ewoks being 'silly'.  I only give the nod to Empire because the dialog was a little more witty/adult, and was well paced.

Ewok vs stormtroopers was clownshoes. Fett's death? more clownshoes. Even as a kid, I was not buying either of those situations.

There was too much looney tunes humor in Jedi. Cut all that out, and it would have been the best of the three. It really felt like a muppet movie for long stretches that I was not enjoying after the rawness of Empire.

[eldaec]

What are peoples criticisms of Return?  Only thing I ever usually hear is "fucking Ewoks" which really never bothered me.

The movie was the most epic in scope.  Epic fights in different dramatic settings.  Massive fleet battle.  Luke (IMO) successfully portraying himself as having trained up enough to be an actual Jedi bad ass, instead of the clumsy whiny bitch he started out on in the first movie.  The saber fight at the end where they try to turn him was really well done.

Return just had the most visually impressive scenes, great fight pacing, fine acting, and a very satisfying plot conclusion.  I can't really fault it on anything, other than maybe Ewoks being 'silly'.  I only give the nod to Empire because the dialog was a little more witty/adult, and was well paced.

The first half is an overlong tonally confused plot hole that feels like an entirely different film.

The second half is 3 perfectly adequate stories that are less than the sum of their parts because of hyperactive editing.

It is still a fun film mind you.