The Dark Knight

[Salamok]

Spoilers ahead...

- Would have liked to see batman go to save the chick at the end only to find out the Joker lied about who was where and end up saving harvey instead.  Sort of looked like it was leading up to that, who knows maybe it got cut.

Uhm....not sure how to tell you this....but thats exactly what did happen. Joker told him Rachel was at location "X". He went there to save her. But in reality it was Harvey who was there.

Guess my ADD set in.  Thought he whispered rachel is at location X and harvey is at location Y and the batman went to Y, I must have crossed the 2.

Either way instead of dumbing it down for me and batman saying I'll take Rachel and the police saying we got Harvey, he said I'll take location X (insert random gotham address here) and the police said okay we got location Y (insert another meaningless gotham address here).  There was so much going on, It was a confusing time for me!

edit: added spoiler alert seeing how I landed on top of the page.

[Dr. Spoons]

- Would have liked to see batman go to save the chick at the end only to find out the Joker lied about who was where and end up saving harvey instead.  Sort of looked like it was leading up to that, who knows maybe it got cut.

Uhm....not sure how to tell you this....but thats exactly what did happen. Joker told him Rachel was at location "X". He went there to save her. But in reality it was Harvey who was there.

Guess my ADD set in.  Thought he whispered rachel is at location X and harvey is at location Y and the batman went to Y, I must have crossed the 2.

Either way instead of dumbing it down for me and batman saying I'll take Rachel and the police saying we got Harvey, he said I'll take location X (insert random gotham address here) and the police said okay we got location Y (insert another meaningless gotham address here).  There was so much going on, It was a confusing time for me!

It was that dumbed down.  Batman runs out of the building Gordon asks him who he's going for and he says Rachel and rides away.  I assume since we are discussing plot points it's ok to talk about spoilers but here's a warning anyway.

SPOILER ALERT













I'm pretty surprised by the amount of people I talked to that think Two Face is still alive.  To me at least, it was pretty clear that he was dead considering the funeral and the fact that Gordon and Batman were right there and presumably checked to see if he was breathing.  And if Two Face is still alive it makes Batman taking the fall to preserve Dent's name completely pointless.  As for possible villains in the next film, there is some speculation that Reese, the Wayne Enterprises employee who knows Batman's identity, may become The Riddler.  A bit of a stretch maybe, but who knows. 

[stray]

Fanboy wankery.

The reason why I don't want another sequel is that basically Nolan's Batman story is already told. Fini. There may be a giant world of Batman material out there, but that doesn't mean it has to be seen. Besides, most of it either doesn't mesh well with Nolan's realism, nor does it bring anything new to the table, as far as his themes about crime and fear go. He'd just be rehashing shit. Not to mention that Ledger's shadow will be looming over the entire thing....you'd have Batman movies with no further references to his arch-nemesis. And it'd be stupid and embarrassing. It's best to just leave it open ended like it is.

[murdoc]

Fanboy wankery.

The reason why I don't want another sequel is that basically Nolan's Batman story is already told. Fini. There may be a giant world of Batman material out there, but that doesn't mean it has to be seen. Besides, most of it either doesn't mesh well with Nolan's realism, nor does it bring anything new to the table, as far as his themes about crime and fear go. He'd just be rehashing shit. Not to mention that Ledger's shadow will be looming over the entire thing....you'd have Batman movies with no further references to his arch-nemesis. And it'd be stupid and embarrassing. It's best to just leave it open ended like it is.

I agree with this.

I have so much  for this movie, that I won't even begin to get into it, since I'll rapidly decend into fanboy hyperbole.

[Salamok]

hmm more spoilers, maybe an admin can just tag the thread title already.

It was that dumbed down.  Batman runs out of the building Gordon asks him who he's going for and he says Rachel and rides away.  I assume since we are discussing plot points it's ok to talk about spoilers but here's a warning anyway.

still isn't the way I recall it but I already admitted to being too caught up in the moment to take notes, seem to remember batman saying i'll take X and gordon's response was to radio out all units to location Y.  I want to watch it again anyhow, I think this time I'll go the alamo bucket of beer and comfy seat route so i'll probably be too hammered to get it right on the 2nd pass as well.

[murdoc]

No, he definitely said 'Rachel' when Gordon asked who he was going for, and then rode away.

[schild]

Yes, he was going for Rachel. He went to where he thought Rachel was. Joker fucked him, just like the Joker should because HE'S THE JOKER.

[LK]

"Nothing's ever that simple with The Joker."

[stray]

I heard "Rachel" as well, but there's a lot of moments towards the end when the audio mix is screwed up, and the music drowns out dialogue. I almost got lost on some points a few times.

[schild]

He said he was going to get Rachel. Joker knew that. Joker reversed the locations. It's not complicated.

[stray]

Yeah, I'm not disagreeing. Just giving homeboy the benefit of the doubt.

[Salamok]

He said he was going to get Rachel. Joker knew that. Joker reversed the locations. It's not complicated.

got it, now spoiler alert the heading for this topic so every 4th line doesn't have to read "SPOILER ALERT"!

[WayAbvPar]

The movie has been out for several days now. There are 5 pages of posts about it. If someone is surprised to find a spoiler in this thread, they are a fucking dumbass who got what they deserved. Go see the fucking movie or DON'T READ HUGE THREADS ABOUT IT DAYS AFTER THE RELEASE.

[HaemishM]

Harvey Dent is alive. I'm almost positive Batman and Gordon said so when they were standing over the body talking about what to do. I thought the funeral was fake and Harvey will end up in Arkham under a fake name, perhaps to break out in the next movie as a full-movie-length villain.

Personally, I'm begging for a sequel. I want them to do the Riddler so bad. I love the Riddler and would relish Nolan's take on him. Hell, he made the Scarecrow actually menacing. The fucking Scarecrow. Of course, the villain they probably are really setting up is Dr. Hugo Strange. In the comics, he knows Batman's secret identity (which could be found out from that Waynetech accountant). Strange fucks with a lot of biology stuff, so he could add Killer Croc in the mix, or could just be Dent's shrink.

[schild]

Well, whether he was dead or alive in the original script for the next movie doesn't matter. Said it to my friends at the theater, he's going to magically be alive now that Heath kicked it.

[stray]

The Scarecrow worked because it fit well with the overall theme about fear. Cramming in the Riddler just because he might be a cooler character in his own right just seems like a bad idea to me. Totally different direction. There's a story being told here, and he has nothing to do with it. Hell, he took 4 villains already, all who could play into the fear theme, and it took some brilliance to not have it get too bogged down. Trying to push it and make Batman movies some excuse to explore the "Batman world" instead of telling a proper, continuous story is the path to suck. It's this kind of shit that makes trilogies suck in general.

[LK]

http://movies.msn.com/movies/movie-guide-summer/the-smart-knight/

I thought this was interesting to read.

[Big Gulp]

Ya i get the whole voice disguise but the batman voice is a little too over the top and gets old quick, Also makes him look like he is hawking up a loogie.

Did you notice that they also had him do the voice even when he's alone with Alfred or Lucius?  It was all I could do not to scream at the screen, "Dude, these people know who you really are!"

[Riggswolfe]

As for possible villains in the next film, there is some speculation that Reese, the Wayne Enterprises employee who knows Batman's identity, may become The Riddler.  A bit of a stretch maybe, but who knows. 

Well, it's almost too obvious but Mister Reese well...it's not much more subtle than Edward Nygma.

Edit: Jesus I'm fucking up quote tags lately.Sorry guys.

[Salamok]

Ya i get the whole voice disguise but the batman voice is a little too over the top and gets old quick, Also makes him look like he is hawking up a loogie.

Did you notice that they also had him do the voice even when he's alone with Alfred or Lucius?  It was all I could do not to scream at the screen, "Dude, these people know who you really are!"

I vaguely seem to recall in the last movie the "voice scrambler" was a worn device.  So in suit regardless of who is listening he hawks up the loogies and out of suit it's normal.  No on off switch other than worn or not worn I guess...

[NiX]

[Velorath]

Harvey Dent is alive. I'm almost positive Batman and Gordon said so when they were standing over the body talking about what to do. I thought the funeral was fake and Harvey will end up in Arkham under a fake name, perhaps to break out in the next movie as a full-movie-length villain.

They never say he is alive, and he doesn't appear to be breathing at all.  I don't really want to see Dent come back in the next one, mostly because he's had his character arc and there isn't much more to do with him.  Unless Nolan plans on redeeming him somehow, Two Face would just become a generic villain who could be replaced by any other bad guy.

Also I think the implication that seeing Gordon's son with a gun to his head was enough to finally get Batman to break his "one rule" is an interesting one.

[LK]

I don't think he purposely tried to kill Dent with that body tackle.

[Velorath]

I don't think he purposely tried to kill Dent with that body tackle.

As Bruce Wayne is a fairly smart guy, I'd imagine he'd realize that knocking someone out of a building several floors up is potentially fatal.

[Velorath]

Fanboy wankery.

The reason why I don't want another sequel is that basically Nolan's Batman story is already told. Fini. There may be a giant world of Batman material out there, but that doesn't mean it has to be seen. Besides, most of it either doesn't mesh well with Nolan's realism, nor does it bring anything new to the table, as far as his themes about crime and fear go. He'd just be rehashing shit. Not to mention that Ledger's shadow will be looming over the entire thing....you'd have Batman movies with no further references to his arch-nemesis. And it'd be stupid and embarrassing. It's best to just leave it open ended like it is.

I think the best way for Nolan to conclude the story he's telling would be to do something similar to the Dark Knight Returns (although I don't really have any desire to see a direct translation of that story).  Basically he's told the story about that start of Batman's career, and it would be fitting if he concluded things with the end of it.  That leaves a large span of untold stories for WB/DC to fill in since they won't want to end the franchise while it's making so much money, and it lets Nolan tell Batman's story in a bookend sort of manner similar to what Frank Miller had with Year One and DKR.  Audiences get a story with a definitive beginning, middle, and end, which is something we'll never get in the comics.

Or maybe Nolan will just say fuck it and throw something together with Killer Croc, Clock King, and Clayface.

[UnSub]

I don't think he purposely tried to kill Dent with that body tackle.

As Bruce Wayne is a fairly smart guy, I'd imagine he'd realize that knocking someone out of a building several floors up is potentially fatal.

I don't think Dent is dead, simply because Batman doesn't kill. If Gordon can come back from the dead, Two-Face is a dead cert.

It would be sloppy for Batman to have saved the Joker but killed the otherwise (half?) healthy Dent with a fall.

Also, it would be the second time that Two-Face was killed by a fall in a Batman movie (see "Batman Forever").

[Velorath]

I don't think he purposely tried to kill Dent with that body tackle.

As Bruce Wayne is a fairly smart guy, I'd imagine he'd realize that knocking someone out of a building several floors up is potentially fatal.

I don't think Dent is dead, simply because Batman doesn't kill. If Gordon can come back from the dead, Two-Face is a dead cert.

It would be sloppy for Batman to have saved the Joker but killed the otherwise (half?) healthy Dent with a fall.

Also, it would be the second time that Two-Face was killed by a fall in a Batman movie (see "Batman Forever").

The alternative to Dent not being dead is that Gordon (now without the help of Batman, and with nobody in the police department he can trust with this kind of secret), is somehow able to get Dent declared dead, but without anybody actually being able to examine the body.  Gordon would then have to put him in Arkham and hope nobody there notices his striking resemblance to the someone who was very much in the public eye and was being declared dead at the same time Two Face was being checked into the asylum.

It would be sloppy storytelling for the purposes of bringing back a character whose story has already been told.  How many more times do you need to see him flip a coin to see if someone lives or dies, because that's about all he'll add to the proceedings at this point?

[Musashi]

First of all, the purported distinction between Batman and Joker is that Batman follows the "rules" and Joker does not.  Yet Batman engages on multiple occasions in illegal and tortuous interrogations, commits a criminal, extrajudiciary kidnapping on foreign soil, and builds a rights-invasive surveillance system with the capability of producing sound and images of the entire city, a system so offensive to the basic notion of personal privacy, that Nolan had to write in Lucius Fox objecting to it on moral grounds.  This Batman is the Donald Rumsfeld of superheroes.

I thought when he was talking about following 'rules' he was talking about his one rule.  He even says, "I only have one rule."  That of course being that he has to be righteous.  The whole point of having a Batman is so that when society's rules fail, he can step in and bring the pain - so to speak.  But as I'm sure you are aware the state of righteousness and following the letter of the law are two completely different things.  You can argue over whether such a thing as righteousness even exists at all, but shut the fuck up.  This is Batman. 

All your other stuff kind of falls apart after you realize that.

[schild]

Basically, Batman is neutral good. Next!

Edit: Wrong alignment, here we are.

Neutral Good is known as the "Benefactor" alignment. A neutral good character is guided by his conscience and typically acts altruistically, without regard for or against Lawful precepts such as rules or tradition. A neutral good character may cooperate with lawful officials but does not feel beholden to them. A doctor that treats soldiers from both sides in a war would be considered Neutral Good.

[jpark]

* Bullshit *

[schild]

Bullshit, it won't do a damn thing to his career. If it does, Hugh Grant and Robert Downey Jr, and Russell Crowe should be taken out back and shot. in the head.

[NiX]

Just saw it last night despite having to be up 4 hours later for work when it finished. Amazing. I've been avoiding this thread like the plague and would of had to if I stayed true to seeing it IMAX only the first time.

I'll go see it again in IMAX next week though.

[stray]

Fanboy wankery.

The reason why I don't want another sequel is that basically Nolan's Batman story is already told. Fini. There may be a giant world of Batman material out there, but that doesn't mean it has to be seen. Besides, most of it either doesn't mesh well with Nolan's realism, nor does it bring anything new to the table, as far as his themes about crime and fear go. He'd just be rehashing shit. Not to mention that Ledger's shadow will be looming over the entire thing....you'd have Batman movies with no further references to his arch-nemesis. And it'd be stupid and embarrassing. It's best to just leave it open ended like it is.

I think the best way for Nolan to conclude the story he's telling would be to do something similar to the Dark Knight Returns (although I don't really have any desire to see a direct translation of that story).  Basically he's told the story about that start of Batman's career, and it would be fitting if he concluded things with the end of it.  That leaves a large span of untold stories for WB/DC to fill in since they won't want to end the franchise while it's making so much money, and it lets Nolan tell Batman's story in a bookend sort of manner similar to what Frank Miller had with Year One and DKR.  Audiences get a story with a definitive beginning, middle, and end, which is something we'll never get in the comics.

Or maybe Nolan will just say fuck it and throw something together with Killer Croc, Clock King, and Clayface.

I could see that happening at least. If they waited awhile and/or got older actors. Kind of like the Two Jakes sequel to Chinatown, if you will (which were some 25 years apart, I believe). That's possibly the best way of scooting by the fact that Heath is gone as well.. Someone else could play an older Joker.

In a way though, I kind of see this movie already having a fitting conclusion to Batman's career. i.e. Going underground again, being the Dark Knight, with Gotham's fate still in a tug of war between peace and chaos, and things left to chance. Nolan already gave a sort of nod's up to DKR with the copycat Batmans and shit too. The only thing missing is a slugfest between him and Superman [edit] (and that's probably the only part left of the Batman story worth telling, in this context. His difference with Superman).

[Ozzu]

Finally saw it tonight. Best movie I've seen in a LONG time. Absolutely amazing from top to bottom. Everyone has summed up the various parts and plot twists, but wanted to point out a couple of things that brought me a lot of enjoyment in my viewing:

The creepy droning violins leading up to the appearance of the Joker in various scenes. Really added atmosphere.

The Joker's facial expressions and reactions when seeing Harvey Dent's face in the hospital.

[bhodikhan]

Here are a couple articles on some of the work that was done. Quite a lot of special effects where you wouldn't have noticed.

http://vfxworld.com/index.php?atype=articles&id=3705

http://vfxworld.com/?atype=articles&id=3707

On the second link you get a real comparison of the 'academy' frame versus the IMAX frame. Amazing cameras.