Warhammer 40,000: Dark Millennium Online

[Teleku]

1) We know gameplay is modelled on WoW/WAR.

Did they announce this somewhere?  I've been looking for info about the game but not really seeing any.

[Trippy]

2) We know the ip has been thrown down the toilet to account for (1) and to accomodate a bullshit 2 realm design.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: this is how GW does its global tabletop campaigns (in most cases)

I.e. there's nothing that violates the IP by having only two sides as this is what GW itself does in the tabletop game in certain situations.

Yes on a small scale the game IP is designed so that any army can fight any other army (even the same army fighting itself). However on a larger scale like, say, a battle over the Eye of Terror sector(s) all the armies get put in one of two buckets (usually).

Edit: usually

[Modern Angel]

I'd only add further that nobody can really do a better job taking a dump on their IP than GW does periodically. It's meant to be malleable for the same reasons WoW's lore is.

[Bzalthek]

I'm beginning to suspect that MMOs are being developed simply to pull in a huge box sale and then ride the rabid fanbase for as much as they can.  No one really wants to challenge WoW anymore.  That's hard.  But if you can pump up the hype and claim all kinds of wow-killer shit, people will flock to it because they're fucking stupid and desperate.  Then they'll realize they were duped and either leave or be die hard fanboys because if they weren't they'd have to admit they were stupid and duped.

[Ratman_tf]

2 factions is retarted, but what's the alternative? A full PvE experience for every army in 40K?

[Triforcer]

I believe F13 decided that 3 factions is the magic number that leads to MMO success and happiness forever. 

[kildorn]

2 factions is retarted, but what's the alternative? A full PvE experience for every army in 40K?

It's actually like, the easiest expansion fodder ever. Add two armies per expansion, don't bother increasing the level cap. Watch people go apeshit over the IP.

But really, the reason 3 is a good number is there's no fear of diluted playerbases from say, 12 factions, and there is a spoiler group in open pvp.

If you're going to just go battleground style instanced pvp, two factions is fine.

[Lantyssa]

Until you end up with battlegrounds where one side outnumbers the other by 10:1 and they simply camp their respawn point...

[kildorn]

Until you end up with battlegrounds where one side outnumbers the other by 10:1 and they simply camp their respawn point...

Well theoretically, battleground style pvp should always be balanced teams, since it's instanced. Crappy matchmaking code aside, of course.

The three side thing is more for DAOC's style pvp (or WAR's, in an ideal world), because in theory, the third team acts as a spoiler to keep the winning team from overextending and keeping momentum(*).

(*): In reality, the third team takes Mid forts at odd hours of the night, because people like easy targets or something.

[Teleku]

Battlegrounds would be fun with 3 factions as well.  It would add more spice to the BG's in wow if you randomly get paired to fight against 1 of 2 other factions every time, not knowing what it is until the game starts.

[Ingmar]

Until you end up with battlegrounds where one side outnumbers the other by 10:1 and they simply camp their respawn point...

Increasing the number of factions does nothing to fix that though.

[Arthur_Parker]

Could this guy be more vague?

Warhammer 40K Dark Millennium Online Interview - John Mueller

On the number of factions thing, at this stage, I don't think you can draw any conclusions.  

With WAR 3 factions would have been a good idea because the world was mostly PVE and the instances were PVP, anything to add more unpredictability to the small Open PVP areas of the world would have been a good thing.

With Dark Millennium, if most of their content is PVE based, as with WAR, then I think they are screwed no matter how many factions there are.  PVE is predictable, if any IP calls out for massive player versus player battles, this is it.  I can't come up with a good reason for all the secrecy, either they haven't decided what type of game it's going to be or they are scared of the reaction they will get when news gets out.  I don't buy the "we don't want anyone stealing our ideas" excuse, WoW will be 8 years old when this comes out, even if Blizzard is quietly working on World of Starcraft, they aren't liable to be heavily influenced by the choices made in an unreleased/untested game.

[Arthur_Parker]

E3 2010: Warhammer 40,000: Dark Millennium Online Update

It uses a modified version of the Darksiders engine, which is one of the reasons it looks so good for an MMO
...
"We want MMO players to be familiar with it because we want that accessibility. But obviously because of the race, weapons and vehicles and things like that, the back-and-forth trading blows kind of thing just doesn't work very well for this [intellectual property]. There's definitely a little bit more of an action vibe."
...
We definitely want to be true to the license and we want to be competitive with the best of the best out. There's thing that you're used to in your triple-A MMOs that are going to have to be represented in our game. I think it's pretty safe to assume there'll be PvP given the [intellectual property]. There is only war, after all. We're just not really at the point where we can show it. We really want to show stuff when we talk about it so we're not just talking. This is just an early glimpse."
...
"You're going to have quests, you're going to go out and kill stuff, you're going to group up, you're going to join larger scale battles. It's structured very much like a traditional MMO. I think the Dawn of War series does an amazing job with tactical, squad-based stuff, [Relic's console-based action game] Space Marine is an awesome, visceral action adventure like one dude kicking ass. For us it's really more of an RPG. You're living the life of this dude not for the life of a console adventure but for hopefully months and maybe even years. What do these guys do off the battlefield? What are their interactions like with other races and in various worlds? It really gives you a unique perspective because it's a hero in that universe, not just a unit."

News just in.  Grindy with Quests.  Awesome.

[DLRiley]

Err fuck and no. Rolf so you think I'll play an mmo because you added aiming? Did the industry learned anything from TR, AoC, Chronicles of Spellborn? Oh wait this the mmorpg industry where people beg for ultima online pre-trammel and everquest dick punching...nvm.

[tkinnun0]

So like WoW but improved? And you're not afraid to say that? OK, I'm interested.

[jakonovski]

I'm in if they add in the Emperor on his golden throne that needs to gank a thousand psyker players every day.

[5150]

I'm in if they add in the Emperor on his golden throne that needs to gank a thousand psyker players every day.

No rounding up NPC psykers to stuff into the black ark will be a quest!

[jakonovski]

No rounding up NPC psykers to stuff into the black ark will be a quest!

Dailies!

[Koyasha]

That's part of the lore I've never gotten.  Where are they getting this endless stream of psykers?  Even with huge populations across the galaxy it seems like even just transporting these thousand psykers per day might get a little screwed up in the logistics department and what happens if the shipment is late and...

Sorry.  That actually seemed more interesting to me than the game, at this point, since all I can muster for that at the moment is a 'shrug' since it's pretty much 'we'll see in three years'.

[jakonovski]

It's originally from the Rogue Trader book, where I suspect they just came up with stuff randomly and printed it. 

[kildorn]

What do these guys do off the battlefield? What are their interactions like with other races and in various worlds? It really gives you a unique perspective because it's a hero in that universe, not just a unit.

This man may not make a 40k game. What do they do off the battlefield? Space Marines are fucking monks off the battlefield! They pray, and they fight.

What are their interactions like with other races? They kill them. They're xenophobic monks.

If I catch a space marine doing a quest line for an Eldar, the devs just don't get the IP they decided to use.

But if IG are playable: Please let us play a squad of them, and have our HP be based on the number of them still alive <3

[jakonovski]

The disturbing trend of making Spaess Mahrinns friendly is also present at GW, so grinding quests for Eldar may well be canon in 2012. The end times are truly upon us.

[kildorn]

Make Inquisitor a class, and let them shoot anyone caught dealing with xenos, imo.

Sure you can quest for that Eldar, but I can shoot you in the back of the head and burn the world to ash from orbit if I see you doing it. Or even think you might have debated doing it at some point.

[Murgos]

Found a release schedule, which if accurate, puts Dark Millennium down for a mid 2012 release.

I don't think that is what that graph actually shows.  I'm pretty sure that should be read as DMO has enough work left to make a release far enough out that we can't set a reliable date at the moment but definitely after mid-2012.

[Threash]

I think the days of more than two factions are gone, content is at too much of a premium to split it three or more ways.  All we are going to get is two factions or shadowbane style free for all.

[eldaec]

I think the days of more than two factions are gone, content is at too much of a premium to split it three or more ways.  All we are going to get is two factions or shadowbane style free for all.

Instance the fucking pve per realm.

Why can't every faction get access to a copy of every dungeon?

You'd probably have to rewrite a few text boxes, but that's all.

[tazelbain]

I think the days of more than two factions are gone, content is at too much of a premium to split it three or more ways.  All we are going to get is two factions or shadowbane style free for all.

Instance the fucking pve per realm.

Why can't every faction get access to a copy of every dungeon?

You'd probably have to rewrite a few text boxes, but that's all.

Just like WAR! MOOOOOOOHHHHHHAAAAAAHHHAAAAAAA!

[Lantyssa]

WAR's quests were fine.  Good even.  It was their PvE combat which sucked all kinds of bad.

[Kageru]

I assume he's talking about the amount of effort required to have unique progression content for 3 factions. He's probably right when we've had a game that on launch couldn't even include content for two factions (STO) and many others that have fairly sparse content even for a single faction.

I didn't see any sign of Eldar in the video, are they in? I could easily imagine them being reserved as an expansion race. The Imperium versus chaos is just so much more obvious as the base story for a PvP game. Though the Eldar backstory would serve quite well as third faction.

Anyway, I'd like to explore the 40K world as something other than a frantic RTS (where is my copy of Chaos gate anyway I wonder) so I'll add to the "please don't suck" prayer.

[Ratman_tf]

It's originally from the Rogue Trader book, where I suspect they just came up with stuff randomly and printed it. 

[Soln]

Rogue Trader.  Fuck me that takes me back.  We might as well talk about Traveller.

[UnSub]

Yeah, it's funny considering we know sod all about the game so far.

Found a release schedule, which if accurate, puts Dark Millennium down for a mid 2012 release.

Interesting that THQ and Vigil are going to try to get out Darksiders 2 and W40KDM in the same year.

[Ghambit]

So yah, I just cockstabbed myself with a lukewarm, salty, rusted spoon with vinegar on it, upon reading that this foamy diarrhea game will be PvE-oriented diku quest shit crap garbage BP oilspill dabocle.
Why is it these "people" REFUSE to do the completely fucking obvious (and design a true PvP masterpiece)?  This design is shit.

WAR, but 40k??  Seriously??   

[UnSub]

design a true PvP masterpiece

Don't ever change. 

[Ghambit]

design a true PvP masterpiece

Don't ever change. 

I knew that would raise someone's response.   

Seriously though, I'm getting quite sick of these studios turning WARhammer into Questhammer.  It's the most successful tabletop wargaming IP ever developed (even though I hated it mostly, cept 40k), and yet for some reason they cant figure out how to turn it into a proper MMO.  This design looks to be yet another overdeveloped POS, taking more from WFRP (warhammer fantasy roleplay) than anything else.  Yet no one even plays that shit... which is btw an equally overdeveloped system.

Oh Lordy, I'm just psychologically drained.  Ultramarines going on quests?     I tell ya what, these quests better involve mowing through endless spawns of Genestealers done in a significantly darkly manner.  And said Genestealers better rape face and not be closet bunnies.

But still, cant a Man just get his Horus Heresy Online wherein you mow through endless hordes in a galactic civil war and/or godly dominion over all?  Then repeat?  It'd be like multiple orgasm, really.  Does no one else see this?  (no one else == people with enough money to dev. an MMO)  Such a simple concept turned to dust.