Guitar thread

[stray]

anyone heard the recent Frusciante stuff. the synthed out solo at the end is [splendid]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oRp1G8Po3tM



i know he's part of a trendy hit n miss band, but i love the guy. he's kept that band alive (twice!), and his own stuff is great.

[Sky]

The song itself is pretty forgettable, but the solo is very nice. I think he kinda overdoes the effects through the last half of it, though. Main riff sounds very Pepper-y. But I've been a Pepper fan since a loooooong time ago and John has always been my favorite guitarist with them. Too bad he decided to take those years off and do heroin, since Navarro was probably their worst period.

[stray]

He uses that effect a lot it seems. It's quite cool. There's this vid about Dani California, showing his synth.

[Miguel]

I would never buy an instrument without playing it first, though

I tend to agree.  I wish someone around here carried them in the store!

I wish I could describe the sensation of playing the original graphite instrument.  A lot of basses (to me), have strings that I could only describe as flabby.  Meaning that if you take the string, and bend it with your finger (right around the point in-between the neck and bridge pickups), it gives considerably before releasing and sounding.  Like if you took a rubber band, and just barely stretched it tight, and tried to pluck it, it would give and give and never snap back to the initial position until it was stretched significantly.  The Steinberger bass seemed to have much higher string tension, which made it easier (for me) to pluck quickly.

Based on reading I have done, string tension is a function of scale length and gauge of string:  e.g., the longer the scale length, the more the string tension for a fixed gauge of string tuned to a fixed pitch.  Also, the thicker the string, the more tension at a given pitch and length.  The problem is a) scale lengths are pretty much fixed, and b) heavy gauge strings are darker and have progressively shittier tone (to my ears).

I wonder if a lot of the apparent tension comes from the essentially completely rigid fretboard and body?

[Sky]

I always liked having that range of pliability, though. It lends itself to different tones, and I had really worked the bass tones since I just played clean into an amp. For faster stuff, I would stiffen my fingers a bit (aping Steve Harris) and play right above the bridge where the strings were almost immobile, but you sacrifice some of the tone for that.

[Righ]

If anybody feels like single-handedly kick-starting the economy:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150346408570&ssPageName=ADME:B:EF:US:1123

Edit: video of the guitar being played (zip to 5 mins in for the real fun), actually the buy it now price is a bargain:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7LB6WNzwQWU

[stray]

original LP PAF pickups sell for 10000 each. You could kickstart the economy even with just that.


seriously though, it's quite ridiculous. kind of a pick of destiny thing, i think? like the some unspoken rumor going on that they have the devil's mojo. Even some of the great guys who didn't play Les Paul's still had PAF's. Keith Richards has a PAF on his 52 Tele in the neck. EVH had that famous striped Kramer he got famous with... only one pickup in that guitar - and it was a PAF.

[Nebu]

Auction just ended.  Someone apparently wanted to help the economy.

[Righ]

Ended early by Hackett's guitar tech, so presumably somebody made an acceptable offer that wasn't quite the $125,000. Sadly, its probably going to be a 'bargain' wall decoration for a Rock Cafe as such famous instruments normally are when priced to sell.

[stray]

Or the wall of a corporate office.

[Sky]

FFH2 and now Drakensang kinda eating into guitar time, blah. But I've been making some really good progress soloing in major keys, still using Jessica as the basis for improvisation. I've got most of the plug-ins down, the main riffs that structure the improv parts, I can get into and out of them with several versions of the song. The original version is the toughest for me to play, they play it a bit faster than about every other recording of it, and they've changed the intro strum riff. When I was first learning it, my fiancee kept saying I was playing it wrong, but it felt right to me. I listened to the album and it was wrong, but I just keep playing it wrong (more like the Chuck's piano part). I was playing to the Jazz Fest 2007 version (with Chuck) and the modern incarnation of the band plays the intro the way I do 

I've still got to put it together with the theory, I've mostly been sounding out sweet spots, and can't figure if they're using major or mixolydian (flatted 7th), because neither 7th sounds right and I've also got to work to make the major 3rd sound right. But I've got a couple nice bend spots (love the 2nd) and some cross-neck applications. Also, the modern ABB is SO DAMNED GOOD, playing call & response with Derek and Warren has been leading me to much less of a homing on the root and letting things breathe a bit. Really good stuff.

Once I put together some of the improv work I'm doing now with some theory so I know a bit better what I'm playing, then work on integrating that with minor and modal playing...I'll finally start to be a decent guitarist. 

[Raph]

I've always meant to take a whack at learning Jessica... I love that song.

Got a Shoutcast stream hooked up to my Metaplace world now, so I can play live to people in the world. Just tested it tonight with three people, but it was kinda fun! No audible feedback from them, though, which was a bit weird.

[taolurker]

Some days I miss singing with a band and wish I learned a musical instrument instead of trying to be a crooner.

I personally love the Allmans and used to sing a few of their songs.

If only I weren't in New Jersey, pushing forty and without musicians or contacts anymore, I'd still be out earning some cash singing.

I always wished I could play guitar, and have all the respect for guitar people.

I want the next Raph album interpretive music sample to feature Jessica and then maybe I'll ask about starting the MMO Blues Band.

[Sky]

I can sing Jessica great!

[taolurker]

Jessica has no vocals... but you knew that.

I have yet to meet any guitarist play that reasonably well, and was wanting to hear a Raph jam of that. Can you play it Sky?

[Sky]

Well, that's a bit of a thing. I played metal for many years, and fucked myself by learning minor and pentatonic (and I think phrygian) scales incredibly well. Can play 'em backwards, forwards, all over the neck, play chords up and down, etc. But I'm a major key retard, it's difficult to play anything musical in major keys for me, which is why I'm working on Jessica, which has an extended jam section in D major (the song is in A). So the improv parts are a good workout for me, and I'm getting better. Also applied it to the E major solo in Melissa yesterday out on the back patio playing to my fiancee. So the idea is working, but it takes time.

That said, yeah I can play it, but there are two fuzzy parts. Where the piano solo leads into the guitar improv section, I pretty much hack that every time. Just need to sit down and go over it a few times, I learn quickly and then practice repetitively to imprint in memory. (I actually sat in with a metal band in the 90s after seeing them play the song once live, and learned it from watching, heh...but I was on top of my game back then). The other part is coming out of the improv section back down to the main melody in A. I mostly learned it by just playing along, but I need to go back and isolate my part (there are two lines) and commit it to memory so it's not quite so messy.

Also, the modern Allmans love to sit on the 7th for a while, so the outro is different, centered on G before resolving to A. The original version just outros in A.

Then it's back to nailing down Liz Reed.

[Nebu]

Well, that's a bit of a thing. I played metal for many years, and fucked myself by learning minor and pentatonic (and I think phrygian) scales incredibly well. Can play 'em backwards, forwards, all over the neck, play chords up and down, etc. But I'm a major key retard, it's difficult to play anything musical in major keys for me, which is why I'm working on Jessica, which has an extended jam section in D major (the song is in A). So the improv parts are a good workout for me, and I'm getting better. Also applied it to the E major solo in Melissa yesterday out on the back patio playing to my fiancee. So the idea is working, but it takes time.

If I recall correctly, don't Walter Becker, Clapton, and David Gilmour play a lot of their solos in major keys?  Might give you some other examples to work with.  

[stray]

I wish I knew wtf I was doing on a music theory level. I just don't - and honestly, I don't care! Not to be rude or anti-music theory. I'm just really kind of lazy in that way.. it's a fault. I think learning gypsy and setzer's take on rockabilly though is starting to make me move in other ways... jumping to some odd 7th or diminished sounding shit seems to come more naturally now. I think for years I was stuck in that mode where pentatonic stuff always made the most musical sense in my subconscious.

[Sky]

I think for years I was stuck in that mode where pentatonic stuff always made the most musical sense in my subconscious.

Because that was the theory you knew! As someone who actually was taught theory, it really bothered me how little I could apply to the guitar. I've talked about the CAGED system before here, but for me it's a miracle. It does take a lot of time applying the concepts, but the basics are pretty simple. But supremely powerful! I /highly/ recommend these books to start with, in this order (and all three are worth getting):

http://www.amazon.com/Fretboard-Logic-SE-Reasoning-Arpeggios/dp/0962477060/
http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Fretboard-Workbook-Barrett-Tagliarino/dp/0634049011/
http://www.amazon.com/Chord-Tone-Soloing-Guitarists-Improvising/dp/0634083651/

[stray]

Hmm, thanks, I'll think about it. 

I'm sort of on an all-round self improvement kick anyways.

[Sky]

I'm sort of on an all-round self improvement kick anyways.

That's a good philosophy for life, because it should be more than a kick, but a underlying approach to life. I've gradually tried to better myself, but for the last four years I've really made a concerted effort to become a better person and it pays off more than I ever could've imagined.

"A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life." - Muhammed Ali

[stray]

I'm sort of on an all-round self improvement kick anyways.

That's a good philosophy for life, because it should be more than a kick, but a underlying approach to life. I've gradually tried to better myself, but for the last four years I've really made a concerted effort to become a better person and it pays off more than I ever could've imagined.

"A man who views the world the same at fifty as he did at twenty has wasted thirty years of his life." - Muhammed Ali

It helps more if you have a fiance though. You're cheating 

[Raph]

So I looked up the tab on ultimate-guitar. The fingering isn't hard for 1 guitar part -- remembering all the little variations and the timing is the hardest part. But it sounds WAY thin solo acoustic with just the one part. Actually, it sounded way thin solo electric too. I am tempted to come up with a fingerstyle arrangement. Someone must have done that before... hmm.

[Sky]

I had a rough version on the MR8HD that I transferred over to the pc, but apparently time warner is using some retarded new flash-based home page system so I can't just link it. Not sure how to upload it to the tube with just audio. So there's that. Not like it was great anyway, veeery rough in spots due to being a work in progress since I'm just using it to learn major improv...

[Sky]

Here's a link to my pile of shit new TW style homepage. It's got a flash player thing. Usual disclaimers apply. Just a recording I made to listen back and critique, I'm wicked hard on myself. As I said, the point is to work out jamming in a major key, so there is some repetitiveness and bum notes because when I really start letting go, I slip into minor still. Also, I'm still working on the bridges into and out of the improv section so those are messy as hell. The version I play over is from Jazzfest 2007 with Chuck Leavell sitting in, so there's an extended piano solo and I haven't quite worked out the kinks in the rhythm parts, I've got them more or less down but need to plug them into each other and get it grooving...and Chuck does go on for a while, which you can't hear so it sounds odd. Finally, for some reason the recording ended up quiet, though I used my normal recording methods, just turn it up and picture the paint peeling, it was LOUD in the room :)

Anyway, this one's for Tau. :)

A question for the crowd, how do you like the tone? That's where I'm at with the boost channel of the Fulldrive. Mostly use it to fatten up the Fender amp and give the dry signal more sustain, but I do come from a metal background so it's hard for me to dial back the overdrive 

[Raph]

Nice. :)

The tone sounds good except for a sharp bit of noise on the attack sometimes in the early part? It's got more bite than what I associate with this tune, which makes for a refreshing change.

Also, does the version you are playing to have all the slide downs on all the notes ending phrases? Or is that just the way you play it? Again, mostly in the early part.

[Sky]

I dunno, I don't go for perfecting the way they play it. So the little slide down parts is just how I play, I've kind of always slid into notes like that. Always liked legato sound and hammer/pulls and bends and whatnot.

The aggressive attack...also how I play. I use a 1.5mm pick on 11s and really dig into it. Clapton was slowhand, I'm heavy hand. Another thing I do wrong when I play fast, economy of motion isn't something I've embraced :)

[Nebu]

You certainly play guitar better than I do.  Having admitted that, my comments:

I'm guessing you played this on the SG.  It's thin.  It really begs for some sustain and maybe a touch of chorus/reverb. Your strong attack also makes this much more noticeable.  You also seem a bit nervous while playing this (from the sound of the recording).  I can understand as you always get a little of this when recording... the only way to get past the tense feel is to play it so much on tape that you stop caring that the tape is rolling.  I'd love to hear you re-record this again in a few weeks after you've played the song to death.  I bet it would have a more relaxed feel.  Technically, you're fine.  I just don't think you've got your soul into the tune yet because it's still new.  In time, I bet this comes to life and will be played with more of a sense of ownership.

Do you know what I mean?  Right now, it sounds like you're playing someone else's licks.  I want to hear the song played more like Sky would play it. 

[Sky]

I despise chorus/verb. Lack of it is a normal complaint about everything I do :) Using the boost stage of the FD2 pedal gives me a lot more sustain than I have playing normally. Any more and it goes into metal territory, so it's basically the best I've been able to wring out thus far with the SG 61 RI > Fulldrive 2 > Fender 65 Deluxe RI. The Fender amp is what contributes to the lack of sustain (at middle volumes) and thinner tone. I pretty much always use the rhythm pickup for the fatter tone. Maybe it was the way it was mic'd?

Sky doesn't know how he'd play it because Sky is just learning to solo in major keys and has no voice there yet. There are a few moments where I get close, but I've got way more than a few weeks before I settle into a comfort zone playing a song in a major key.

Also, I have awesome musical adhd and haven't played the song since I recorded this last week :P Last night I was playing along with The Song Remains The Same and it's really not Pagey's best moments, the newer DVD set has much better stuff. But there's a lot of great ideas, especially when he's not really paying attention to what he's playing, I was trying to lift some of his rhythm work during Stairway, he does a nice passage that's very Hendrixy (probably my favorite rhythm player, oddly enough).

Thanks for the critique, it really helps. MOAR PLZ! :) Now I'm inspired to dick around with the tone some more. I've been toying with the idea of one of those EQ pedals or something, I used to have a big parametric when I was recording back in the day and I love the control it gives you.

[Nebu]

Please don't take my comments as negative.  They were intended as food for thought.  Of course, they do contain some personal taste, so your comments there help me better understand your intentions.

You play well.  I just want to hear your guitar sing!

[Sky]

Don't mistake me, I'm not taking them negatively. I enjoy honesty because it's difficult to get honest critique out of most people around me, as they're both nice and not musicians.

I'm not nearly as good a guitarist as I seem to be :) My decent technique hides my crappy playing.

[Raph]

I dunno, I don't go for perfecting the way they play it. So the little slide down parts is just how I play, I've kind of always slid into notes like that. Always liked legato sound and hammer/pulls and bends and whatnot.

I actually meant sliding AWAY, not into notes. You'd finish a phrase and on the last note, slide down and away. I mention it because it felt like you did it a tad too much early on, then later on you used it more rarely. But early on it jumped out at me as a performance "tic."

[Sky]

Ah, I hear it now. Yeah, just filling some space, couldn't really hear it when I was playing it with my ipod earbuds in blasting the original recording, but listening back I can. Stuff like that is why I record it, find my tics. Though with the full band it wouldn't sound quite so out of place.

Not as bad as Derek Trucks doing that with his slide while he pauses, he's one of my very favorite guitarists but that drives me batty.

[Sky]

Played a bunch over the weekend, working on a bunch of technical stuff like chord shapes, arpeggios and even venturing into the dangerous 'slipping a mixolydian over the IV', one of the milestones I've been heading toward. I really enjoy where I am now on guitar, even if it's frustrating at times. I have decent enough technique to achieve most goals I set for myself if I put in the time and effort to practice, but not so knowledgeable that I'm burned out on stuff or cynical.

Most of what I was doing was just goofing off with tab books and trying to internalize what I was playing, analyzing chords and figuring out scales. I'm still a bit weak in scale analyzation (ok, wicked weak). But I'm getting a lot better about understanding chords, and the time I put in with the CAGED system has really been paying off, even with the half-assed effort I put in. For example, there was a C-shape E chord in a Zep tune that my fingers just went to because of the system, before CAGED I had never played a C or G shape closed chord up the neck. Then there was a nice A I'll have to remember, he uses a couple open strings to give it a nice air. With the stock Bm, the chords were: Bm x24432 E x76454 A x07650. Though I continue to be unable to play good A-shape chords due to my stubby fingertips and relatively big knuckles, don't think I'll ever get good at those (ex: x79997).

Then the arpeggio work came out of dicking around that passage from Stairway I mentioned. Need to incorporate more of those chord tones in my soloing, very nice and easy melodic effect. Some more chord and arpeggio study with a cheesy fingerpicking classical book I have, really nice for working out theory because they don't list chords over the staff like most rock guitar books and the author loved to invert and play partials.

I threw in my Warren Haynes DVD, he covers a lot of basic stuff, but he's such a great player I always pick things up just jamming along with it. And of course, a lot of the gaps in my playing are pretty basic, thus the mixo over IV I mentioned above. Just being able to finally break away from pentatonics in a standard blues will be huge. Lots of work to get there, but it'll definitely pay off big time (hell, just a nice bend on the 2 resolving to root (of the I) is a nice addition over the IV, a riff I lifted from Jessica!). I usually have to shut Warren off after a half hour because my brain starts to overload, it's great stuff.

Need more hours in the day!

[Sky]

I hope I sound like this when I'm 73.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv1knfDLRTA

Front row ftw.