Tron Legacy

[01101010]

Everyone hates success. 

Considering the Oscars are all about being seen, rubbing elbows with 'your betters' and politics, the snub to Daft Punk shouldn't be shocking.  Guys who go around in Robot suits keeping as low a profile as is possible with such a gimmick aren't who the Academy wants to associate with.

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/culturemonster/2011/01/banksy-scores-oscar-nomination-for-exit-through-the-gift-shop.html

Of course, the grain of salt is that this is a short documentary film category - however, I doubt anyone in Hollywood would wish to rub elbows with Banksy. As for Daft Punk... this is one hell of a score by a duo with no previous experience in movies or scores for that matter... tracks are one thing, but writing a score brings in a lot more than a single track. Them getting slighted, while not all that surprising, is very disappointing.

[Khaldun]

The Oscar snub to the soundtrack and the visuals is pretty baffling. Especially the soundtrack.

Because it was electronica/pop music? Nothing original ala Star Wars theme and nothing hit making ala Titanic theme?
ie nothing new or special to see?

Trying hard to decide if this is meant to be green text or not.

[Merusk]

How many of the short documentary guys get to go to after parties vs. those for a "big" award like Best Score?  Plus, in conjunction with what Khaldun's addressing, electronica isn't exactly well-received by most of the US.  Hell, it's mostly just lumped in with "Dance" music even though it's quite different.

[Mrbloodworth]

Um, there was like, nothing special about the sound track. Sorry. *shrug*

[LK]

Um, there was like, nothing special about the sound track. Sorry. *shrug*

Mind backing that up with more than just a personal opinion? I recognize that the sound track is great but I also understand that my world view is isolated / biased and doesn't take into consideration the standards of the judges or the plethora of work out there.

Yeah, I would have liked to have seen a nod to Daft Punk given their history and what they managed to accomplish with Tron: Legacy, but Oscars are about as mainstream as you can get so I am disappointed but won't get worked up by it since ultimately it doesn't matter.

[Mrbloodworth]

Um, there was like, nothing special about the sound track. Sorry. *shrug*

Mind backing that up with more than just a personal opinion? I recognize that the sound track is great but I also understand that my world view is isolated / biased and doesn't take into consideration the standards of the judges or the plethora of work out there.

Sure, right after those that thought it was game changing explain how that scores on the "standards of the judges or the plethora of work out there".

 

It was fine for the move and setting, but there isn't a single track on it thats as iconic as the ones that get awards. Having more than one beat my also help, but I'm slipping into opinion again.

[Lakov_Sanite]

Loved the soundtrack but BW is right, nothing about it screamed oscar nominee. Maybe it deserved a nomination but it was far from a snub. The soundtrack itself while fitting, pleasing and a great accomplishment for daft punk, was in no way a masterpiece of audio glory.

It was enjoyable, it worked and I'm willing to bet that it didn't go unnoticed either. I have to imagine that some are just waiting to see if daft punk will do this again and possibly get nominated for their second soundtrack regardless of its success based on this one.

[Slyfeind]

Yeah, listen to the soundtrack from King's Row by Korngold then tell me Star Wars was original.

[01101010]

Um, there was like, nothing special about the sound track. Sorry. *shrug*

Mind backing that up with more than just a personal opinion? I recognize that the sound track is great but I also understand that my world view is isolated / biased and doesn't take into consideration the standards of the judges or the plethora of work out there.

Sure, right after those that thought it was game changing explain how that scores on the "standards of the judges or the plethora of work out there".

 

It was fine for the move and setting, but there isn't a single track on it thats as iconic as the ones that get awards. Having more than one beat my also help, but I'm slipping into opinion again.

Not going to harp too much since it's a moot point, but there are very few musical pieces that are iconic that come from a score - given all the scores nominated in the last 10 years. The score set the tone of the movie's scenes and fit specifically to said movie as a collection. Tron has a feel and it was, IMHO, captured in the score - Daft Punk's contribution fit the criteria of the Oscar's ruleset. It went up against some better movies, which I think cost them a nod. Not saying they were OMGWINIT great, but I think they were better than just getting a glance. If Tron: Legacy was an original movie and not so niche, things might have turned out different.

[Khaldun]

Look, Hans Zimmer's score for Inception was nominated. I actually like Zimmer's scores but:

a) like most of the other repeat offenders in this category, he both brutallly recycles his own work *and* liberally borrows riffs from classical and other compositions. Listen to John Williams' famous Jaws theme sometime and then listen to the 4th movement of Dvorak's 9th. This is not a problem per se: remixing is a good thing and creates new works of value. But let's not be stupid here and imagine that John Williams et al are highly original composers who are repeatedly given awards for their originality.

b) Zimmer's score for Inception was so ill-suited to the film that many people who otherwise liked the film noted how jarring the music was in relationship to the film's theme and mood.


So here we have a complaint that the score for Tron Legacy doesn't belong in the same company because:

a) it's unoriginal. Again, in comparison to what? It's certainly different than the faux-Wagnerian or faux-classical norm for most film scores. Difference is a pretty good proxy for "original" in that sense.
b) it complements its film perfectly, in many cases strongly enhancing the mood and visual design (ok, except for the whole bullshit scene in the nightclub, which we all agree is a strange bloop in the mood of the film). Unlike, say, Inception's score.

[HaemishM]

b) Zimmer's score for Inception was so ill-suited to the film that many people who otherwise liked the film noted how jarring the music was in relationship to the film's theme and mood.

I disagree with what you said.

[stu]

The most iconic part of the Inception soundtrack was the blaring horn music from the trailer, but that wasn't written by Zimmer. :/

[Sand]

Trying hard to decide if this is meant to be green text or not.

It wasnt.

This ---->

It was fine for the move and setting, but there isn't a single track on it thats as iconic as the ones that get awards. Having more than one beat my also help, but I'm slipping into opinion again.

[Ironwood]

b) Zimmer's score for Inception was so ill-suited to the film that many people who otherwise liked the film noted how jarring the music was in relationship to the film's theme and mood.

I disagree with what you said.

I disagree with your disagreement.

[SurfD]

Meh.  The Oscars died for me the year Depp lost Best Actor for playing Jack Sparrow to Sean Penn playing Sean Penn.

[Surlyboi]

The most iconic part of the Inception soundtrack was the blaring horn music from the trailer, but that wasn't written by Zimmer. :/

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2yD4yDsiP4

[Mrbloodworth]

I'm sorry, but other than people who bought the soundtrack, I bet no one can hum any track in this movie and have the majority of the people in the room know what movie it was.

Scores you can do that with, are iconic.

I'm not saying it sucked, but really, unless you are REALLY into Daft punk style electronica (Or what ever sub-flavor this is), the sound track was forgettable, despite what it added to the movie.

Also, perhaps its my personal flaws, but a good number of times I was reminded of the title track to the never ending story while watching the movie. Perhaps it was the heavy 80's influence in some of the tracks.

I still think the first TRON movie was superior in many ways. But I did really like this one.

[ghost]

A soundtrack doesn't have to have a "hook" theme to be great.  I think the Oscars are really missing it if this doesn't at least get nominated.  If it doesn't win, so be it, but this is a spectacular accomplishment. 

[Mrbloodworth]

A soundtrack doesn't have to have a "hook" theme to be great.  

Kinda does, yeah.

Star Wars Main Theme-Star Wars trilogy
I'm A Man Of Constant Sorrows- O Brother Where Art Thou
Ghostbusters-Ghostbusters
Over The Rainbow-Wizard of Oz
Indiana Jones Theme-Indiana Jones Trilogy
Theme from Shaft-Shaft
Don't You(Forget About Me)-The Breakfast Club
Main Theme from LOTR-Lord of the Rings trilogy
Eye of the Tiger-Rocky III
Live and Let Die-Live and Let Die
Power of Love-Back To The Future
Goldfinger-Goldfinger
Sprach Zarathustra-2001:Space Odyssey
Ride of the Valkyries-Apocalypse Now
The Music Man "Seventy-Six Trombones"

ETC...

[Typhon]

You remembered Goldfinger but didn't remember The Bond theme!! You forgot BOND!

Seventy six trombones and no Bond theme.

 Bastard.

(whispers: you forgot the bond theme!)

[Mrbloodworth]

and the bond theme. 

[01101010]

A soundtrack doesn't have to have a "hook" theme to be great.  

Kinda does, yeah.

Star Wars Main Theme-Star Wars trilogy
I'm A Man Of Constant Sorrows- O Brother Where Art Thou
Ghostbusters-Ghostbusters
Over The Rainbow-Wizard of Oz
Indiana Jones Theme-Indiana Jones Trilogy
Theme from Shaft-Shaft
Don't You(Forget About Me)-The Breakfast Club
Main Theme from LOTR-Lord of the Rings trilogy
Eye of the Tiger-Rocky III
Live and Let Die-Live and Let Die
Power of Love-Back To The Future
Goldfinger-Goldfinger
Sprach Zarathustra-2001:Space Odyssey
Ride of the Valkyries-Apocalypse Now
The Music Man "Seventy-Six Trombones"

ETC...

I see your point, however - in the past five years, what musical entry from a score from nominees or winner can you recall? And keep in mind a score is an entire body of music, not just one track off it - though it may help highlight the place of the track.

I think you are being unfair that this score has to live up to the legends that are remembered throughout time when there are far more past nominees and winners that are pretty forgettable.

Movie scores for reference (winner in CAPS):
2010 - UP, avatar, fantastic mr fox, hurt locker, sherlock holmes
2009 - SLUMDOG MILLIONAIRE, benjamin button, defiance, milk, wall-e
2008 - ATONEMENT, 3:10 to yuma, kite runner, micheal clayton, ratatouille
2007 - BABEL, good german, notes on a scandal, pan's labyrinth, the queen
2006 - BROKEBACK MOUNTAIN, constant gardener, memoirs of a geisha, munich, pride & prejudice

I am pretty good with movies and I can't recall the score or even a track on any of those as it relates to the movie, and I have seen several of those movies multiple times.

Ok, I've said what I wanted... carry on with your bickering.

[Surlyboi]

A soundtrack doesn't have to have a "hook" theme to be great.  

Kinda does, yeah.

Star Wars Main Theme-Star Wars trilogy
I'm A Man Of Constant Sorrows- O Brother Where Art Thou
Ghostbusters-Ghostbusters
Over The Rainbow-Wizard of Oz
Indiana Jones Theme-Indiana Jones Trilogy
Theme from Shaft-Shaft
Don't You(Forget About Me)-The Breakfast Club
Main Theme from LOTR-Lord of the Rings trilogy
Eye of the Tiger-Rocky III
Live and Let Die-Live and Let Die
Power of Love-Back To The Future
Goldfinger-Goldfinger
Sprach Zarathustra-2001:Space Odyssey
Ride of the Valkyries-Apocalypse Now
The Music Man "Seventy-Six Trombones"

ETC...

And in almost every case, none of those was immediately memorable as being from those particular movies. It wasn't until the movies themselves became iconic that anyone gave a shit about the scores. The exceptions to that are Power of Love, Don't you forget about me, Also Sprach Zarathustra and Ride of the Valkyries. The first two because of the power of pop music and top-40 airplay when the movies were made and the last two because they already had a sort of built-in classical audience that knew the tunes before they were attached to the films.

[ghost]

Okay, you really used Ghostbusters soundtrack as evidence of good music? 

[Mrbloodworth]

Okay, you really used Ghostbusters soundtrack as evidence of good music?  

No, as iconic parts of a sound track that instantly recalls the movie in question in most places and in most groups.

And in almost every case, none of those was immediately memorable as being from those particular movies.

I don't believe you.

Any way it was a short quick list to make a point.

[K9]

A soundtrack doesn't have to have a "hook" theme to be great.  

Kinda does, yeah.

Star Wars Main Theme-Star Wars trilogy
I'm A Man Of Constant Sorrows- O Brother Where Art Thou
Ghostbusters-Ghostbusters
Over The Rainbow-Wizard of Oz
Indiana Jones Theme-Indiana Jones Trilogy
Theme from Shaft-Shaft
Don't You(Forget About Me)-The Breakfast Club
Main Theme from LOTR-Lord of the Rings trilogy
Eye of the Tiger-Rocky III
Live and Let Die-Live and Let Die
Power of Love-Back To The Future
Goldfinger-Goldfinger
Sprach Zarathustra-2001:Space Odyssey
Ride of the Valkyries-Apocalypse Now
The Music Man "Seventy-Six Trombones"

ETC...

Only two of those were even nominated for an oscar though (Star Wars and The Music Man), 2001 and Apocalypse now aren't using original music (although I agree that both pieces are now strongly linked with the films they represented). Also there is a slight difference between an entire soundtrack and a theme song. Most of the other tracks on these films soundtracks are as instantly forgettable as the soundtracks you are criticising. A great soundtrack is one that fits the theme of the film, and maintains a consistency throughout, while showing variety that matches the changes in the plot. It is not all about bashing out a single iconic theme song.

I'm glad The Social Network and Inception got nods, Tron should have been in there as the soundtrack was both entirely appropriate to the film and well constructed.

That said, arguably the most lasting soundtrack of the past decade was the soundtrack to Gladiator. Several album tracks are still in the classical top 100 here in the UK and the whole piece is frankly masterful. The fact that it lost out to Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon was frankly typical for the Oscars, since as stated, politics tend to trump quality.

[Surlyboi]

I don't believe you.

Ah, so that makes it all ok then. 

[Mrbloodworth]

I don't believe you.

Ah, so that makes it all ok then. 

Makes what all ok?

[ghost]

Okay, you really used Ghostbusters soundtrack as evidence of good music?  

No, as iconic parts of a sound track that instantly recalls the movie in question in most places and in most groups.

Again, simply because the music is iconic doesn't automatically make it great, and because you can't recall a theme to hum in your head while you ride in the elevator doesn't make a particular soundtrack any less so.  Some of the main themes you listed are shitty.   

[K9]

Again, simply because the music is iconic doesn't automatically make it great, and because you can't recall a theme to hum in your head while you ride in the elevator doesn't make a particular soundtrack any less so.  Some of the main themes you listed are shitty.   

This exactly.

[Surlyboi]

I don't believe you.

Ah, so that makes it all ok then. 

Makes what all ok?

The fact that you're talking out of your ass and accepting it as the unvarnished truth of the universe.

[DraconianOne]

Only two of those were even nominated for an oscar though (Star Wars and The Music Man),

Close, but not quite. Those two and LOTR all won Best Original Score  - LOTR twice for FOTR and ROTK. "Raiders of the Lost Ark" (Indiana Jones theme, obv) got a nomination.

"Over the Rainbow" and "Theme From Shaft" won Best Original Song, "Ghostbusters", "Live and Let Die", "Eye of the Tiger" and "Power of Love" all got nominations. "Goldfinger" and "Don't You (Forget About Me)" were eligble but didn't get nominated.

"Man of Constant Sorrow", "Also Sprach Zarathustra" and "Ride of the Valkyries", as you said, were ineligible.

Also, "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" was a sublime soundtrack. On the whole, I preferred it to the militaristic bombast of Zimmer's Gladiator soundtrack. I wasn't sorry it won.

[Mrbloodworth]

The fact that you're talking out of your ass and accepting it as the unvarnished truth of the universe.

You guys are funny.

"OMG this awards show is shit and meaningless, but fuck them for not giving it to daft punk, those bastards!!!"

Tron soundtrack was pedestrian as far as pop culture goes, and yes, the spice girls trounce it.

An no, I don't believe not one of those songs instantly connects the movie for you.

[Surlyboi]

Re-read what I wrote. None of those songs was instantly connectable until the movies themselves became iconic. Either you missed that point or you be trollin'

I'm not defending Daft Punk or their score, I actually kind of agree with you on the fact that it's not going to be memorable. The reason it's not going to be memorable is because the movie will probably not stand the test of time the way every one of those movies you named did.

[K9]

Only two of those were even nominated for an oscar though (Star Wars and The Music Man),

Close, but not quite. Those two and LOTR all won Best Original Score  - LOTR twice for FOTR and ROTK. "Raiders of the Lost Ark" (Indiana Jones theme, obv) got a nomination.

"Over the Rainbow" and "Theme From Shaft" won Best Original Song, "Ghostbusters", "Live and Let Die", "Eye of the Tiger" and "Power of Love" all got nominations. "Goldfinger" and "Don't You (Forget About Me)" were eligble but didn't get nominated.

"Man of Constant Sorrow", "Also Sprach Zarathustra" and "Ride of the Valkyries", as you said, were ineligible.

Also, "Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon" was a sublime soundtrack. On the whole, I preferred it to the militaristic bombast of Zimmer's Gladiator soundtrack. I wasn't sorry it won.

Fair enough, this is what you get for being hasty with wiki-fu. I will maintain my point that there is a significant and important difference between a great soundtrack and a great (theme) song. BW is arguing that tron was an awful soundtrack because it didn't have a memorable theme, yet most of the tracks which won best original song came from soundtracks that were utterly dire.

I also disagree with you about CTHD vs Gladiator, but that's really just a matter of taste.