Return of the Book Thread

[Morat20]

Wait, What ?

Who turns out better at the End of the Gap Cycle ?  They're either dead, running or totally mentally unbalanced.

Trauma is the order of the day.

]
The Gap Cycle was Donaldson's take on a  melodrama. Everyone is -- at one time or another -- either the villian, the victim, or the hero. Everyone gets raped, one way or another, by everyone else.

Thomas Covenant, on the other hand, was a bastard-coated bastard with a bastard filling. You're not supposed to like him. He's not likeable, and he's a paradox -- his attempts to do good result in evil (each time he saved the Land, each time he tried to make a deal to make things right, it ended up biting him and the Land on the ass).

Mhoram, on the other hand -- is something else entirely. He's the only one that really understands Thomas, the Land, and even Lord Foul. Everyone else is operating on faith, which fucks them one way or another (Ehlena in particular). Mhoram is operating, by the end, on understanding. He sees Thomas for what he is, understands the Land, The Creator, and Lord Foul for what they are, and how it all goes together.

Mhoram embraces the paradox of White Gold from the beginning. Everyone else just fixates on one half or another (save the Land or Doom it) and hopes to fucking hell Thomas saves the Land. Mhoram gets it. He knows it's always both.

[Ironwood]

Gap Cycle Spoilers:
Angus Thermopyle gets revenge on Holt, all his cyborg implant control codes, and gets holt's state-of-the-art ship to tool around in. Maybe gets a little bit of humanity too, from the ordeal.
Morn gets to keep her her son, her job, gets a complete pardon, and a standing ovation from the UMCP council. Comes through OK, based on last few paragraphs of the book.
Warden Dios's plan succeeds, Holt is fucked (killed by Angus) and he is victorious in the big power struggle which started the whole thing.
Humanity gets an antigen, acknowledged as temporary but a good research starting point.

The last paragraph of This day all gods die:

"Eventually she discovered that she could look herself in the eyes. Once her hair was dry, she put on a fresh shipsuit. The she unlocked her doors and went out to meet the future." <-- not mentally unbalanced anymore

You're far more optimistic than I.  I could debate the points.  Would you like me to ?


Edited for Morat:  Um, yeah, I know.  However, Mhoram is a prophet; the very fact of his understanding, coupled with his farsight should have drove him totally batshit.  And then there's the two enigmas when his parents die and he loses his farsight later.  Mhoram was, I think, meant to be the good mirror image to Covenant.  Indeed, he was so powerful he was completely powerless against Foul.  He was the one, after all, that came to the Ritual of Desecration on his own.

[bhodi]

Not really ;) They did all come out alive... the ones that deserved it anyway.

[Morat20]

Edited for Morat:  Um, yeah, I know.  However, Mhoram is a prophet; the very fact of his understanding, coupled with his farsight should have drove him totally batshit.  And then there's the two enigmas when his parents die and he loses his farsight later.  Mhoram was, I think, meant to be the good mirror image to Covenant.  Indeed, he was so powerful he was completely powerless against Foul.  He was the one, after all, that came to the Ritual of Desecration on his own.

Not the only one -- it was implied that Lena's father had basically begun it.

Mhoram was the mirror-image of Covenant. He was a paradox -- having the power to save and destroy -- but he accepted the paradox from the beginning. In a lot of ways, I think the whole series was Covenent seeking to find the acceptance and peace that Mhoram had from the beginning.

Frankly, I think had Mhoram been around instead of Kevin, the whole bloody mess would have been averted. Which was, I think, also part of the point. You had all this power -- in Mhoram's hands (after he understood Earthpower properly), in Covenant's hands, in Kevin's hands -- and the fundamental question was "Who did you want with that power?" (The answer being: No one willing to use it. Someone terrified of power.)

[Ironwood]

I love Donaldson.


Shame it's all about the Rape.

[Paelos]

I love Donaldson.


Shame it's all about the Rape.

This thread is all about the rape.

PS - Thanks for the suggestions, I'll try the Erikson stuff.

[Abagadro]

He likes rape.

[Ironwood]

 
 :-D

 

[Ironwood]

On topic, I just finished Quicksilver by Stephenson.  God, it's Huuuuuuuuuge, but I found a lot of it quite satisfying.  Less so the Waterhouse chapters, but Eliza and Shaftoe are real fun.

Moving on to the next one.

[Abagadro]

Waterhouse gets more interesting, particularly in the 3rd one.  Eliza gets progressively more useless as a focus.

[Morat20]

On topic, I just finished Quicksilver by Stephenson.  God, it's Huuuuuuuuuge, but I found a lot of it quite satisfying.  Less so the Waterhouse chapters, but Eliza and Shaftoe are real fun.

Moving on to the next one.

After the first one, the others are quicker reads. Although the end of Quicksilver was a bit cringe-worthy. Thank fucking god for modern anesthetics, eh?

[Mazakiel]

I read through the newest Dresden book the other day, White Night.  My only two complaints are that I wish it had been longer, and that a fresh dose of the books is pretty much going to kill enjoyment of the TV show for me.  It's not the best he's done, (I personally think Dead Beat is the best so far), but it was still very very good.  A somewhat major plot point gets resolved by the end of the book, and while I did enjoy the resolution, I wish it had been fleshed out more in the book.  Anyway, definitely worth a read, but anyone who's read enough of the books to be ready to start in on it is likely already going to pick it up. 

[Murgos]

Waterhouse gets more interesting, particularly in the 3rd one.  Eliza gets progressively more useless as a focus.

Yeah, by the end of the first one I was thinking I would rather have just had a whole book of Shaftoe/Eliza by the end of the third one I was like, "Quit interrupting my Waterhouse!"

[WayAbvPar]

OK, you have convinced me. I have had a copy of Quicksilver laying around for the better part of a year now (was waiting for the rest to come out in paperback IIRC). I will dig it out and start in on it ASAP. After I finish Fiasco.

[bhodi]

Fiasco's sitting on the shelf, I haven't read it yet.. I guess I should pick it up, huh.

[Ironwood]

After the first one, the others are quicker reads. Although the end of Quicksilver was a bit cringe-worthy. Thank fucking god for modern anesthetics, eh?

You mean the idea of someone slicing through your taint to get to what modern sonics can deal with right now ?

Fucking A.

[Morat20]

After the first one, the others are quicker reads. Although the end of Quicksilver was a bit cringe-worthy. Thank fucking god for modern anesthetics, eh?

You mean the idea of someone slicing through your taint to get to what modern sonics can deal with right now ?

Fucking A.

That would be it. Calling it a 'pearl of great price' is a fucking understatement.

[HaemishM]

I decided to start reading the Dune trilogy instead of inflicting Salvatore on myself.

After reading Chalker, I'd forgotten what good sci-fi writing is. Damn, 50 pages in and I'm hooked.

[WayAbvPar]

I decided to start reading the Dune trilogy instead of inflicting Salvatore on myself.

After reading Chalker, I'd forgotten what good sci-fi writing is. Damn, 50 pages in and I'm hooked.

[HaemishM]

I think that was a character in the Chalker book.

No, after reading Chalker, and most of my previous reading not being fiction, I needed some good goddamn fiction to massage my mind again.

[AcidCat]

I just read Cormac McCarthy's The Road yesterday. The sense of dread and fear of what would happen next was intense, it was literally painful at times to continue reading. But McCarthy's prose is amazing as always and you have a compulsion to keep on towards whatever horrible fate awaits the man and his boy. The book is terrible and beautiful and amazingly powerful (especially if you are a parent).

[Viin]

I haven't been keeping up with this thread in awhile, so I apologize if this has been brought up already.

I just finished Night Watch by Sergei Lukyanenko. Easy to read but an awesome book; he's very good at making the good guys look like bad guys and the bad guys look like the good guys - lots of gray in this book about Good vs Evil.

If you haven't seen the movie I recommend that too (make sure you watch it in Russian with subtitles, not English without subtitles). The book has another 2 stories in it that the movie doesn't cover.

[HaemishM]

The movie kicked 17 different kinds of Russian ass.

[Abagadro]

I need some recommendations for some juvenile fiction. My nephew is 12 and a pretty advanced reader. Most of the stuff for his age group is too "kid" for him, but he is also somewhat sensitive so a lot of adult material isn't suitable.  He doesn't like lots of people dying, etc. So I open it up to the wizened among you for some titles.

[Viin]

12? Well I donno .. when I was 12 I was reading Tom Clancy, Dale Brown, and Stephen Coonts.

If he's sensitive to some things he's probably safe reading Nancy Drew and the Hardy Boys - anything beyond that has the potential to be uncomfortable for him.

[Morat20]

I need some recommendations for some juvenile fiction. My nephew is 12 and a pretty advanced reader. Most of the stuff for his age group is too "kid" for him, but he is also somewhat sensitive so a lot of adult material isn't suitable.  He doesn't like lots of people dying, etc. So I open it up to the wizened among you for some titles.

Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising series. Lloyd Alexander's Pyrdain Chronicles. Garth Nix's Abhorsen trilogy (although that has a lot of death -- it's about necromancers, so scratch that). Nix's Mister Monday might work -- I've heard good things, but not read it.

Anything by John Bellairs.

[croaker69]

Ursula K. LeGuin -- First 3 Earthsea
Lloyd Alexander -- Prydain Chronicles

[Yegolev]

I'd skip Prydain Chronicles and go to Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy.  It seems to be the same story based on my reading the beginning of Prydain, but it takes up three books (one, two, three) instead of one and I just liked it better... again, based on just the beginning of Prydain.  But when I was 12 I think I read Battlefield Earth and the Mission Earth set, so you may not want to listen to me.

Recently started reading this, and I think I have finally discovered what is wrong with me.

[Murgos]

I have to admit that even though I never made it through the whole series of Mission Earth I liked the premise that the bad guy was so inept he was likable and that the good guy was so over the top perfect and wholesome that you couldn't help but want to see him fail.

I also think it's beautiful irony and really shows that John Travolta doesn't even understand his own prophet that he named his son Jet.

Battlefield Earth still rocks though regardless of the stupidity that later spewed from L Ron.

[Lt.Dan]

I need some recommendations for some juvenile fiction. My nephew is 12 and a pretty advanced reader. Most of the stuff for his age group is too "kid" for him, but he is also somewhat sensitive so a lot of adult material isn't suitable.  He doesn't like lots of people dying, etc. So I open it up to the wizened among you for some titles.

Since this is the (mainly) sci-fi and fantasy thread, I suggest The Hobbit or Magician.  Those books are pure magic and have relatively young or naive central characters which he might associate well with.

[Bunk]

Or go with the "lite" version of Tolkein - Terry Brooks' Shanara stuff.

I read Piers Anthony when I was that age!  *ducks*

Its hard to come up with not too adult stuff, that isn't too kiddy. Some of Jack Vance's lighter stuff might work, some of Heinlein's stuff of course. I know I tried reading Asimov and Herbert at that age, but most of it went over my head til I reread it five years later.

[Abagadro]

Thanks for the tips guys. I know that is a difficult request. He's burned through Harry Potter and I know he likes the LOTR movies, but I don't know if he has read them. Hobbit would probably be a good start.

[Johny Cee]

Alot of the classics can be great reads.

Three Musketeers, Mutiny on the Bounty. CS Lewis' Narnia,  maybe even the scifi trilogy.  Verne and Wells.

Some Heinlein would be good,  other Heinlein would be poor.

Some of the Bujold Miles series?  Some of it would not be a great choice.

Card's Enders Game?

It's easier if you can give a couple books he liked.

On the edit:

Pick him up a collection of Sherlock Holmes short stories. 

[Johny Cee]

I haven't been keeping up with this thread in awhile, so I apologize if this has been brought up already.

I just finished Night Watch by Sergei Lukyanenko. Easy to read but an awesome book; he's very good at making the good guys look like bad guys and the bad guys look like the good guys - lots of gray in this book about Good vs Evil.

If you haven't seen the movie I recommend that too (make sure you watch it in Russian with subtitles, not English without subtitles). The book has another 2 stories in it that the movie doesn't cover.

I liked Night Watch.

I took the break down between Good and Evil to be less about Good vs. Evil then communitarian/socialist viewpoints versus individualism.  Good tries to control and guide the way humanity takes shape,  and in the process causes great crises.  It's also all about the group over the individual and goal over means.  Evil is focused around the individual and selfish instincts,  which can cause the greedy/motivated to exercise dominance over others.

I think there's a sequal out now?

[RhyssaFireheart]

Day Watch trailer.

I think I'll see if I can find the books somewhere and read them.  Borders here I come!  I could use something new to read and I'm on vacation all next week, with no plans at all besides seeing how late I can sleep and how little work I can do around the house.  Go me!