Morrowind: (N)PC evolution

[Tebonas]

You keep singing the same tune while I destroy other civilizations all over the galaxy on my PC with no alternative on your treasured consoles in sight.

Roleplaying Games of the non-action variant and Turn Based Strategy Games seem really lacking on consoles. I really thought about kicking my PC out and do my serious stuff on the Mac while playing my games on a console. Doesn't work yet for my particular gaming tastes.

[schild]

Roleplaying Games of the non-action variant and Turn Based Strategy Games seem really lacking on consoles.

You're joking, right?

[Tebonas]

Compared to PCs, no I am not.

Of course, you have a different taste in games than me. It is fine you love your console, want to give it a name and have little half-console kids with it. For me, most console titles don't have the appeal and durability needed for me to love a game. Thats why I said "My particular gaming tastes" and I would like you to crawl off my back because for me games are not fast food to be consumed and quickly forgotten.

[Trippy]

Maybe you should explain what "Roleplaying Games of the non-action variant and Turn Based Strategy Games seem really lacking on consoles" means then. Like what sort of games are you playing right now on your PC?

[Tebonas]

Right now? Lets see, I have installed (and play according to mood)

ADOM
Astral Masters
Civilization 4
Darklands
Galactic Civilization 2
Magic: The Gathering
Master of Magic
Need for Speed: Most Wanted
Nethack
Neverwinter Nights
Uplink
Warlords 4

The Roleplaying Games I mean are things like the old Bards Tales, Wizardrys, Ultimas, Dark Heart of Uukrul. The Gold Box games. That stuff.

[schild]

Do we want to go there?

Disgaea/2
Vanguard Bandits
Makai Kingdom
Lost in Blue
Animal Crossing
Fire Emblem/1&2GBA
Final Fantasy Tactics/Advance
Hoshigami
Kartia
Rhapsody
Generation of Chaos
La Pucelle Tactics
Brigadine
Gladius
Age of Empires DS
Battles: Prince of Persia
Advance Wars/2/DS
Rebelstar
Stella Deus
Suikoden Tactics
Romance of the Three Kingdoms 1/2/3/4/5/6/7/8/9/10
Shaman King
Phantom Brave
Harvest Moon/7 different varieties
River King
Culdcept
Outpost Kaloki
Full Spectrum Warrior/Ten Ton Hammer
Wrath Unleashed
Magic: Battlegrounds
Tactics Ogre/2/GBA
Earthbound (arguably)

That's just stuff on my shelf (except some of the sequels - like Romance and Tactics Ogre [le sigh]). I would highly suggest you don't go down this wrote. I will smite you with the burning fire of a thousand superior TBS and RPG titles.

The problem here, Matt, is that you don't understand Japan and Turn Based Spreadsheets.

BtW, NWN doesn't fall into either of your categories - at all. And Need for Speed is reaching - especially when you know those people got out of their car and shot eachother after the race. The only questionable one on my list is Earthbound.

[Trippy]

[ Bah schild beat me to it oh well I don't feel like rewriting this ]

Have you tried any of the console SRPGs like Disgaea or Gladius? And Japanese RPGs are nothing but the latest in the evolution the CRPG formulas pioneered by Wizardry and Ultima. Empire-building turn-based strategy games like Civ or GalCiv are a bit lacking on the console side though there is Romance of Three Kingdoms like schild mentioned.

[schild]

[ Bah schild beat me to it oh well I don't feel like rewriting this ]

Have you tried any of the console SRPGs like Disgaea or Gladius? And Japanese RPGs are nothing but the latest in the evolution the CRPG formulas pioneered by Wizardry and Ultima. Empire-building turn-based strategy games like Civ or GalCiv are a bit lacking on the console side though there is Romance of Three Kingdoms like schild mentioned.

Whatever Japan pulled from early American stuff is completely unnoticeable. It's not even worth comparing. Older titles like Shining Force and Langrisser was doing more advanced stuff in the 80s in Japan than we were doing here. Hell, than we're doing now. Gladius is a completely JSRPG ripoff. As far as Empire building goes - I don't know how else to say it, but total army building in the NIS stuff (La Pucelle, Makai Kingdom, Phantom Brave, and most of all Disgaea) is more indepth than any PC strategy game to date. ANY. As far as Civ and GalCiv goes, I'm not entirely sure they could compete against the staples of console gaming. Keyboards are a necessity. They'd have to be stripped down. Yet somehow, Romance X feels like a more advanced sim title than Civ 4. Color me surprised. I don't even have the balls to play all the way through a game on Romance yet. It's too intimidating. Civ 4 turned out to be a shelf-sitter. If I ever want to play a gussied up version of Civ 1, I'll play Civ 4. Sid Meier has no new ideas.

Here's the thing. I love PC gaming. It's the most natural feeling gaming for me. But frankly, PC Gaming doesn't offer me much that consoles don't. And more often than not, PC TBS and Sim titles are completely lacking in story, while the foundation of a good TBS title on a console is the story they build the game around. When you look at the total package, if Tebonas is being straight up, he should own a PS2 and this conversation never should have happened. But then, I don't know how many of those titles made it to Europe.

[Tebonas]

I give you Romance of Three Kingdoms, loved those old PC ports and the later should be even better.

Sounds like I would have some options if I bought a PS3 then, but still not the same options I have with my PC. Maybe I can work myself up to a one of both kinds deal, but I see nothing there that replaces the high replayability of some old PC titles, even if for no other reason than plain nostalgia.

The problem is right as Schild suspected. Most of these tiltes didn't make it to my retail outlets here. I know some specialized game outlets for my PC needs, but consoles might screw me over with that whole PAL/NTSC nonsense. All we got in our supermarkets are what is suspected to sell good. Knowing our youth, that are mostly adaptions from movies and TV series, sports and action games. I can order my PC games directly from the USA if need be, no such luck with consoles.

Edit: Neverwinter Nights is only a substitude until the next thing comes along, some of those community modules are really good. Need for Speed is just for blowing off steam when I feel like it. Just went from top to bottom on my desktop, didn't want to hold back on you people.

[Trippy]

As far as Empire building goes - I don't know how else to say it, but total army building in the NIS stuff (La Pucelle, Makai Kingdom, Phantom Brave, and most of all Disgaea) is more indepth than any PC strategy game to date. ANY. As far as Civ and GalCiv goes, I'm not entirely sure they could compete against the staples of console gaming. Keyboards are a necessity. They'd have to be stripped down. Yet somehow, Romance X feels like a more advanced sim title than Civ 4. Color me surprised. I don't even have the balls to play all the way through a game on Romance yet. It's too intimidating. Civ 4 turned out to be a shelf-sitter. If I ever want to play a gussied up version of Civ 1, I'll play Civ 4. Sid Meier has no new ideas.

The army (or party) building SRPGs aren't 4X games, though, which makes them totally different style and Tebonas clearly likes the 4X genre. Maybe he would like them (it's hard not to like Disgaea if you enjoy tactical turn-based combat) which is why I asked if he had tried it or Gladius.

[schild]

If you're into TBS games you're into TBS games. If you're into 4x games, you're into a TINY subset of a genre. Tiny Tiny Tiny. Hell, if you're into any computer specific genre you're into a tiny corner of a genre. Simply put, there are more TBS games out there than you can shake a stick at. Yet no one has made one in a horror setting yet., I mean real supernatural horror. God, a combination of horror and strategy nearly makes me twitch. I want to summon an old one.

[Tebonas]

To be fair I like the party building RPGs most. The list is only skewed because there are not many I haven't played several times and didn't bother to reinstall them yet since my last PC reinstall.

[Miasma]

Not when Oblivion 360 is out pre-selling Oblivion PC 10 to 1.

Where are you getting that number from?  I would have thought that with the 360 supply problems even if every single person in North America who has a 360 buys Oblivion that it still wouldn't be able to outsell the PC  .

As an aside, Bethesda has set the official launch date as March 20th, so there won't be another six month delay.

[ahoythematey]

Harvest Moon was forgotten on that list, and it belongs even if Natsume milks that damn franchise worse than Capcom does Mega Man.

I'd love it if Oblivion was a good game, but really I'd hold more faith in a Gothic 3 being worth the time.  Morrowind was a really underwhelming game.

[Murgos]

Oh, this discussion again?

Someone let me know when it actually amounts to something other than e-peen waiving.

News flash, consoles out-sell PC's for game purchases since 1978.  PC gaming still alive, kicking and innovating, more at 11.

[Ironwood]

MY DICK IS HUGE.

[Ironwood]

Ironically, on the PC Morrowind was utter shit as well.

No.  It wasn't.

Come over and see my Morrowind house.  You can play with the stuff on the floor but DON'T TOUCH THE STUFF ON THE SHELVES OK ?

[Sauced]

I guess we'll know soon enough.

[WayAbvPar]

My inner fanboy is erect with anticipation.

[Yegolev]

Simply put, there are more TBS games out there than you can shake a stick at. Yet no one has made one in a horror setting yet., I mean real supernatural horror. God, a combination of horror and strategy nearly makes me twitch. I want to summon an old one.

If someone were to simply update the graphics of X-COM and make a <insert theme> TC, they could do the Scrooge McDuck money-dive within a month.

Stupid Gollops.

Ironically, on the PC Morrowind was utter shit as well.

Maybe you just don't like Morrowind itself, but the PC version was the Real game.  Did you play the PC version?  I suspect so, but I had to ask.

Also, PC Gaming is dead.

Been dead for a while, but I still get good stuff on it... my questionable tastes aside.  Plus, I can't think of a console that I can do my taxes on.  And if I am going to own a Cube, why not a PC too?  Weak arguments FTW!  I rock.

I guess we'll know soon enough.

I am going to love it no matter how it turns out.

[Paelos]

I'll pick it up. It's guaranteed to serve up massive hours of gameplay.

[Triforcer]

MMOs ruined me for Morrowind.  I played it for awhile and thought it sucked.  Then I realized I had spent the last 45 minutes jumping in place in town to increase Acrobatics.  Then I went to bed to cry.

[Tebonas]

Yeah, doing such things lose their appeal if you don't have other people around you egging you on by doing the same retarded things.

For me Morrowind was a MMorpg without other people around you, which improved it for me.

[schild]

The ideal Elder Scrolls world (or most any RPG world) would be one with a storyline you can go through yourself or with friends, though cutscenes are all from a one player perspective. In other words, I'd want to set up an f13 server and have you fuckers wandering around my world.

I've thought for a long while now that micro-sized persistant worlds is the real future of gaming and that this massive stuff will die with a whimper because of the cost of content creation for a million catasses.

[Murgos]

Then I realized I had spent the last 45 minutes jumping in place in town to increase Acrobatics.  Then I went to bed to cry.

See, I never did that kind of stuff in Morrowind. I knew it was an option but I just didn't do it.  No casting the same spell xMillion times just to raise destruction or whatever.  Skills went up plenty quick just doing normal activites in the game.  To each his own, but I stopped doing those sorts of things in games a LONG time ago - if they are required to advance then I stop playing the game, Morrowind did not require that you do that (at least in my experience.)

[Stormwaltz]

If you're into TBS games you're into TBS games. If you're into 4x games, you're into a TINY subset of a genre. Tiny Tiny Tiny.

Yes, lord knows those Civilization games all went over like lead balloons. And GalCiv is tanking big time.

I get what you're saying, they're a small percentage of the total "TBS genre." But they do sell, and nothing quite like them exists on consoles to my knowledge.

[Dren]

I'll pick it up. It's guaranteed to serve up massive hours of gameplay.

My thoughts exactly.  Simple enough.

[Sky]

Despite what that guy says, I still highly doubt the PC version will look as good or run as good as the 360 version. What's more than that, I doubt the game itself will be very good. My faith in bethsoft drops by the minute, rather than the month or day.

You're out of your fucking mind. Now I'm starting to suspect you're getting M$. The idea that a console will run a game better than a high-end pc is stupid. In a couple years, mid-lifecycle, a mid-range pc will beat it out. And by the end of the life cycle (the xbox last year), somebody's grandma's online poker pc can dust it.

I remember reading about how innovative the Emotion Engine for the PS2 was, how it was going to be a paradigm shift away from low bandwitch/low speed communication and huge memory areas. It was going to be all about throughput, so you 'wouldn't need' those big buckets, because the big pipes would keep everything moving. Except it was totally wrong, and the PS2 had shitty textures, shitty anti-aliasing, shitty polygons. You /need/ the big buckets /and/ the big pipes, and you can only get that in a pc.

If you think the 360 version of Oblivion is going to look or run better than a top end AMD64 rig loaded with 2GB RAM and some 7800GTX SLI, you're japaretarded.

The 360 has it in spades. Also, PC Gaming is dead

The 360 has it in spades? Spades? Do you know what that means? The 360 only has double the memory of my /video card/. And shares that with the system. My pc has double the system memory. My pc is two years old, yet has 1.25GB of memory for gpu/cpu, and the 360 has 512. Spades? Right. Oh, windows overhead must be using that other 725MB RAM.

PC gaming is dead? Your console bias doesn't make that a reality, it makes it a troll. How many pc gamers do you know that are buying their games on consoles now, instead of pc? Maybe a few exclusive /in addition/ to the pc games they play. But "Screw this pc, I'm buying an xbox"? Puh-lease. Not everyone is you, schild. In fact, very few are. Look at your game shelf. That's not normal. At least I admit I'm a niche audience, you seem to think you are the common man.

[Ironwood]

Stop it, you sly rogue.  I'm giggling.

[NiX]

  U SKY!

[Yegolev]

MMOs ruined me for Morrowind.  I played it for awhile and thought it sucked.  Then I realized I had spent the last 45 minutes jumping in place in town to increase Acrobatics.  Then I went to bed to cry.

You should be crying when you do this in a MMO.  How about, I don't know, playing the game instead of being a dork?

[Tebonas]

That could be you!

[Morfiend]

Also, PC Gaming is dead

Im sure Blizzard would agree, as they wipe they asses with $100 bills.

[schild]

snip

It's all about standardization. Sure, I have more PC Games from the last than I do any console (except maybe the PS2) and I definately don't have console bias. I own every system and gladly support every system. But I call it as I see them. Blizzard and Valve are a respirator for the PC gaming industry. But let's just break it down this specific situation for fun.

1. Your graphics card at release probably cost as much as the 360 premium. Yet people were complaining about the price of the 360. Right.
2. The 360 is a standardized platform, optimization is easy compared to PCs. There may be a few machines out there that will outperform the 360. But it won't be the norm and 90% of PC Gamers will probably never see the PC version in 1080i. You might, grats ding, don't care. Because of #1.
3. You have your PC plugged into a projector and play on a couch. Your PC is a console. You treat it as such. How you are so pro PC evades me.

-

snip

As for Stormwaltz's comments - you just made my point. I just called that stuff a tiny subset and you only managed to name, at total, about 7 games if you count up all the Firaxis stuff that falls into that category. I wasn't talking about number sold (though I'm fairly sure many on my list outside most on the PC list), but rather variety of games. You know why I stopped playing Civ 4? It was a shiny, shiny, shiny Civ 1. No new storyline or anything, just more. You know why I'll play Disgaea 2? The gameplay of Disgaea 1 with more brilliant story. That's one of my biggest problems with PC tactics titles, story is pretty much thrown out the window. But I'm pretty sure I already said that somewhere.

-

snip

[Morfiend]

snip

The only thing I can think of that this means is that you have been in Signe's sex toy closet again.